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Dual Blade Revamp

DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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edited November 2018 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Confusing Build


When players get to 4th job, they usually use 4th job skill job skills and don't use other skills before unless they are to move mobs. Other classes get 4th job skills that don't replace their 2nd and 3rd job skills, but instead compliment them by passively increasing the damage of previous skills or be a skill that fits into the combo. Where does Dual Blade belong in this category?

The first example I give is a class that gets a skill that replaces the their old skills. An example is a Dark Knight where your Piercing Drive will be replaced by Dark Impale and be forgotten while skills like Rush and Spear Sweep will be remain useful. The second example would consist of Mercedes, Cadena, Blaster and other classes combo. They gain skills to extend their combo and they also enhance the pre existing skills. I was about to put Dual Blade into this category, but I will explain to you why he is a "neither" or "both" scenario.

Dual Blade is my main and favorite class, but the class itself changes so much when you get to 4th job. Throughout a Dual Blader's journey, they are presented with the skills Tornado Spin, Bloody Storm, Flying Assaulter and Blade Ascension. These skills give Dual Blade the ability to combo and move forward while attacking. When they reach 4th job, they are given Blade Fury, a standalone skill that doesn't link to any skills. It is confusing because you are either spamming Blade Fury or continuing to use your Flying Assaulter-based combos without major boosts (Bloody Storm will boost Tornado Spin and Flying Assaulter.) I personally feel upset Dual Blade isn't a TRUE combo class since Blade Fury just stand outs like a sore thumb (Bandit Slash doesn't really count since it when Dual Blade is taking his tests to earn his Katara.)



I was thinking if Blade Fury should have a passive effect that boosts the skills that could be combo'd as well or be added to the combo sequence itself. Blade Fury could boost the damage of Blade Ascension and Bloody Storm since those skills both have a red animation or increase Dual Blade's final damage when completing a combo. I was also thinking Dual Blade can automatically activate an attack for completing a combo or having it activate every interval if the combo were loopable. (EXAMPLE: Activate Blade Fury with no delay or a shockwave similar to Zero's or Aran's Adrenaline for completing a combo or activating every 4th attack if you loop.)

NOTE: I always thought the skills Bloody Storm and Tornado spins were the end of Dual Blade's combos. (Dual Blade rises with Blade Ascension, dive down with Flying Assaulter, use Bloody Storm to pass thru mobs or Tornado Spin to push them and end the combo.) I failed to noticed that Tornado Spin could be followed up by Blade Ascension, essentially looping the combo. Not only could Tornado Spin turn to Blade Ascension, Bloody Storm was able to link to Tornado Spin and ultimately Blade Ascension to have the cycle continue. I have been doing this combo for a long time not realizing Dual Blade was not a combo attack, but a looping combo attack (I thought I had luck connecting Tornado Spin to Blade Ascension thinking they were disjointed.) I do feel that a secondary automatic attack for looping your combo is a great way to make Dual Blade a flashier combo class.


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Could be flashier

Dual Blades are also limited to using one attack at a time (non counting Will's 5th Job skill.)

There are 3 main types of categories for multi-attacking
  • Scenario 1:Attacking while having a summon or installed skill activate (Kaiser's Stone Dragon, Supernova, Superstar Spotlight, Mihile's Radiant Cross Hyper Effect etc.)
  • Scenario 2: A chance to trigger an attack while attacking (Assassin's Mark, Kinetic Combo, Monkey Spirits, etc.)
  • Scenario 3: Being able to active skills simultaneously (Buccaneers with Spiral Assault + another skill, Thunder Breaker pairing Turbulence+ another skill, Shadower's Meso explosion, Illium Orb and Javelin-based skills, MECH'S FREAKIN BEACONS AFFECTED BY PING!)

Dual Blade has no skills than can be active at the same time as him. Blades of Destiny, Venom Burst do have a fast and short animation, but it barely fits in scenario 3 due to you having to act AFTER casting Blades of Destiny or Venom Burst and it slightly stops attack animations (low pre and post skill delay.) With 3rd V coming soon, I noticed that classes will be receiving more skills that fall into the 3 categories listed above (maybe except Blaze Wizard who is not receiving a multi-attack skill since they already can cast skills while Blazing Extinction is active.)


Without creating any new skills (maybe have monster bomb return be something nice,) I found some possible ways to make Dual Blade a better mobber/bosser.
  • Asura's Anger- Turn Asura into a summon allowing Dual Blade to attack while the skill is active. (Scenario 1) Increase hitbox size as well.
  • Blades of Destiny and other cooldown skills short animation and delay - Allow the user to cast a skill like Blades of Destiny without having to release Phantom Blow (Scenario 3)





I hope these suggestions are something that can make Dual Blade feel more flashy and increase its performance on the battlefield. I will come up with more suggestions and check out anyone's suggestions for Dual Blade.

Comments

  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited November 2018
    Give Asura and Tempest I-frames would be my suggestion
  • HolyGiraffeHolyGiraffe
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    edited November 2018
    How about make Blade Fury cancel animation for other skills?
    Blade Ascension > Flying Assaulter > Bloody Storm (So far this is the same sequence as before) > Blade Fury (Cancels the animation for previous skills).
    I also suggest making Blade Fury hitbox a bit larger, make the animation larger.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited November 2018
    How about make Blade Fury cancel animation for other skills?
    Blade Ascension > Flying Assaulter > Bloody Storm (So far this is the same sequence as before) > Blade Fury (Cancels the animation for previous skills).
    I also suggest making Blade Fury hitbox a bit larger, make the animation larger.

    I am already comfortable with Dual Blade's bossing capabilities, but his mobbing needs work. Making Blade Fury larger or make Dual Blade's combos similar to Zero's would increase coverage in mobbing. Blade Fury could also have a passive attack that activates when completing/looping a combo like every Xth skill used in the loop, Blade Fury would activate. A similar case is that in Beast Tamer's Leopard mode, Macho Incarnate and Leopard's Roar activates when completing a combo.

    Also, some skills with cooldowns like Sudden Raid and Venom Burst required the user to stop using whatever skill they are are using to use it, but has a short animation. A nice change to this move is to change it so you can still use whatever skill are you using (Phantom Blow, spinning in Asura or using Tempest Blade) and still be able to cast the cooldown skill.

    Another annoying thing about Sudden Raids for all thieves is that the mobs dying animation since the mobs pause for a second before getting hit and dying. I did this test at Zakum using Sudden Raid vs Blade of Destiny. I had to watch Zakum finish his dying animation before proceeding to loot him compared to being able to loot while he is crumbling. This change would have ZERO effect on DPS but just ends lives faster instead of having to watch mobs suffer.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited November 2018
    remove smoke bomb and add another tool for utility; smoke bomb doesn't affect bosses
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited November 2018
    Well DB is pretty good at what it does, powerful stable damage and huge burst. What you're asking for is for DB to have that and then some. Either DB has insane damage or it has 'flashy' remote attacking skills. They can't just have it all.
  • zoutzakjezoutzakje
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    edited November 2018
    It feels like forever since i used the Blade Ascension + Flying Assaulter + Bloody Storm combo. I don't really miss it. Flash jumping around with Blade Fury feels faster anyways, regardless of the damage output.
    Dual Blade's mobbing could be a little better, i must admit. Grinding feels a little slow compared to some other classes, though I'm sure there are worse ones as well. Mobbing is not so bad that it requires changes though, imo.
    Dual Blade's bossing is excellent already. DSE + Final Cut + Last Resort + a variety of others to buff up. Then Blade Tempest and Asura's Anger to melt hp bars. Then phantom blow till you can buff and burst again. Our high mobility allows for relatively easy dodging of boss attacks as well.

    Sudden Raids death animation does need work. Let the mobs actually die the moment you press that button and let the attack animation just continue. Don't let the mobs be in a state of limbo while you wait for the attack animation to finish.
  • crimson24crimson24
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    edited November 2018
    adding chain skills to db is a terrible idea. there is a reason no body plays thunderbreaker.

    dual blades need a revamp but not the one you're suggesting.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited November 2018
    crimson24 wrote: »
    adding chain skills to db is a terrible idea. there is a reason no body plays thunderbreaker.

    dual blades need a revamp but not the one you're suggesting.

    The problem is the server lag, and latency in general, as well as the propensity for people to simply button-mash for most actions(see: new hayato players launching themselves into the air with vapor blade near portals). So I definitely agree with you that more chain skills is a terrible idea. And honestly, if he wants a class with more chain skills, cadena, zero or ark are always there. No need to dumpster a solid class for little to no reason.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited November 2018
    crimson24 wrote: »
    adding chain skills to db is a terrible idea. there is a reason no body plays thunderbreaker.

    dual blades need a revamp but not the one you're suggesting.

    for the most part, the Dual blade's mobbing coverage should be increased, not so the damaged. The updates I see in KMS about Blade Fury or Phantom Blow's damage going up is pointless.

    An example of increasing Explorer thieves mobbing potential would be to change the properties of Sudden Raid from DoT to fire left behind. Mobs on the fiery floor will take continuous damage and eventually die similar to Fort's Majestic Trumpet and Kaiser's Inferno Breath. The DoT as a stack is pointless since the initial damage damage is already overkilling the mob and I've never seen the practical use of the DoT.
    remove smoke bomb and add another tool for utility; smoke bomb doesn't affect bosses

    Turn it to Night Walker's old Poison Bomb and possibly turn into Monster Bomb upon hitting 4th Job?
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
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    edited December 2018
    I don't want DB to become another Combo class. While a revamp would probably help it...please no more combo classes.
    crimson24
  • AnythingAnything
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    edited January 2019
    I agree with the players who don't want DB to increase their range from doing combos.

    As we know there are classes out there who relies on combos, which boosts their range. Ark, Blaster, Thunder Breaker and Mercedes and other jobs not mentioned chains their skills to keep their range boosted, so they are stronger if they are maintaining their chains.
    For a TB it's also their insane attack-mobility when they chain.

    A DB doesn't get stronger from chaining but DB is one of the easiest jobs to 'chain' than the other mentioned jobs. I find Ark to be easy too and there are reasons for it why it could be harder on other classes. The lack of keyboard space to play classes with a lot of (combo) skills to be able to playcomfortably with my keysettings. I need my skills close to my jump button but the buttons are all occupied already (I didn't get 5th job for Mercedes, TB, Blaster so no 5th Job skills. I did get it for DB and Ark). DB is getting full too...Ark has a new passive skill which is nice.

    I was always one of the 'few' players who had most of the default keyboard buttons taken off to create space for skills. I have often seen keyboard settings from other players that kept so many default buttons on their keyboard and I highly doubt they would even use them. And now we are in 2019 and we got more 5th job skills released by now and the keyboard is so full to be able to add these new skills properly into our keysettings. Like we can remove Facial Expressions and add our skills there but these buttons are way too far. It's fine if they were buffing skills but we got more 'attacking' type of skills than buffs, so that isn't a solution.

    I actually enjoy DB as it is and I don't have any problems with it. I don't think it will do any good if a DB gets buffed while chaining.
    And I am sure if they would add the boost in doing combos, Nexon would drop their current main skills damage %. This will mean you need to combo to make up for the nerf on the skills and if you don't combo the job will be weaker than before the change.

    So be careful what you ask, a boost into comboing might result in a nerf in other aspects.