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Closing old forums 1/31/2017

Comments

  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,585
    Posts: 6,099
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited January 2017
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    I guess that demonstrates, in a nutshell, the value Nexon places on anything we say (and everything they've found fit to tell us in the past): it's all garbage.

    Even if the old forums contain usefull information is it really that bad? Gee.

    Yes, it is really that bad.
    I'm not going to repeat everything I already said in this thread yet another time, just reiterate: one does NOT just delete information en masse unless one is VERY VERY certain that it's all entirely useless.

  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
    Posts: 3,553
    Member
    edited February 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    I guess that demonstrates, in a nutshell, the value Nexon places on anything we say (and everything they've found fit to tell us in the past): it's all garbage.

    Even if the old forums contain usefull information is it really that bad? Gee.

    Yes, it is really that bad.
    I'm not going to repeat everything I already said in this thread yet another time, just reiterate: one does NOT just delete information en masse unless one is VERY VERY certain that it's all entirely useless.

    What was so critically important that the closing of the old forums feels, to you, like taking a dump on your mother's grave? Is it the bug reports? The bug reports that consisted, in a not-insignificant amount, of "HEY THIS IS BROKEN IT'S NOT WORKING" and not following the report template?
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,585
    Posts: 6,099
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited February 2017
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    I guess that demonstrates, in a nutshell, the value Nexon places on anything we say (and everything they've found fit to tell us in the past): it's all garbage.

    Even if the old forums contain usefull information is it really that bad? Gee.

    Yes, it is really that bad.
    I'm not going to repeat everything I already said in this thread yet another time, just reiterate: one does NOT just delete information en masse unless one is VERY VERY certain that it's all entirely useless.

    What was so critically important that the closing of the old forums feels, to you, like taking a dump on your mother's grave? Is it the bug reports? The bug reports that consisted, in a not-insignificant amount, of "HEY THIS IS BROKEN IT'S NOT WORKING" and not following the report template?

    I've explained that at length throughout this 9-page thread, but I'll do it again, useless as it is at this point.

    Even if 99% of the threads in the old forum were garbage, that still leaves a few thousand meaningful ones.
    Bug reports that were in the correct format (some even with video demonstrations), tech support workarounds, questions and answers regarding little-known quests/maps/NPCs, statements by Nexon representatives on various topics (such as the tumblr interview that Neospector copied over recently, purely by accident because someone on reddit asked something that was answered there), and so on. There is no practical way of sifting through all the garbage to find those pearls and save them. However, when the subject of one of those pearls comes up, it is (or was) quite feasible to search for it and fish it out.

    This is why all normal organizations preserve all their information as much as possible. Paper documents are of limited usability because it's hard to search through endless meaningless correspondence for that one sentence that's important. But with digital information, the pearls can always be found - as long as they're not incinerated with the garbage, that is.

    It's ironic that Nexon does this with the game itself, keeping all the old useless data and code that bloats and lags it - but doesn't do it for offline documentation that hurts nobody by sitting quietly, being a resource.
  • InvulgoInvulgo
    Reactions: 4,620
    Posts: 544
    Member
    edited February 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    I guess that demonstrates, in a nutshell, the value Nexon places on anything we say (and everything they've found fit to tell us in the past): it's all garbage.

    Even if the old forums contain usefull information is it really that bad? Gee.

    Yes, it is really that bad.
    I'm not going to repeat everything I already said in this thread yet another time, just reiterate: one does NOT just delete information en masse unless one is VERY VERY certain that it's all entirely useless.

    Well the old forums haven't actually been permanently deleted, there is an internal backup that staff can access. They aren't online for us anymore. I agree that the old forum did contain useful information about bugs and events that would be convenient to search for when it’s relevant. That being said, we will be just fine. This isn’t the first time Nexon has made older forums unavailable, the very first forum was also taken down. I struggle a bit to remember but it was back in the days when there was only one forum and the games/hosted titles were sub sections. We will adapt, just like we adapted last time, and how we adapted to this new webpage that removed quite a bit of old pages. When that happened we did manage to dig up lots of information from fan pages.

    We knew this was going to happen four months ago, hopefully people saved what they wanted.

    Also this forum will be optimized, things take time.

  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,585
    Posts: 6,099
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited February 2017
    Of course we can adapt, but why should we have to?
    If they still have an internal copy, then I really don't understand why it was necessary to block player access to it.
    They're not saving storage space, as Neospector speculated.
    They're not saving significant bandwidth, because very few people look at the old forums and robots can't crawl them at all.
    What, then, is gained by not allowing us to see them?
  • TubaTuba
    Reactions: 2,675
    Posts: 374
    Member
    edited February 2017
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    I guess that demonstrates, in a nutshell, the value Nexon places on anything we say (and everything they've found fit to tell us in the past): it's all garbage.

    Even if the old forums contain usefull information is it really that bad? Gee.

    Yes, it is really that bad.
    I'm not going to repeat everything I already said in this thread yet another time, just reiterate: one does NOT just delete information en masse unless one is VERY VERY certain that it's all entirely useless.

    Well the old forums haven't actually been permanently deleted, there is an internal backup that staff can access. They aren't online for us anymore. I agree that the old forum did contain useful information about bugs and events that would be convenient to search for when it’s relevant. That being said, we will be just fine. This isn’t the first time Nexon has made older forums unavailable, the very first forum was also taken down. I struggle a bit to remember but it was back in the days when there was only one forum and the games/hosted titles were sub sections. We will adapt, just like we adapted last time, and how we adapted to this new webpage that removed quite a bit of old pages. When that happened we did manage to dig up lots of information from fan pages.

    We knew this was going to happen four months ago, hopefully people saved what they wanted.

    Also this forum will be optimized, things take time.

    But I don't understand why you guys put such high priority on getting rid of the old forums and not working on bettering this one? I mean you guys have a lot of fine tuning to do here and you put your priorities on getting rid of all the data to a outdated forums that players didn't want you to get rid of in the first place lol. It seems like such an unprofessional time wasting move. You could be putting time into improving this forums. I mean maybe it's just me but if I was in control of a forums and my current forums was mess, I would probably want to fix the current forums that players are most active on, before you would go to a totally dead forums and spend time deleting everything. And why does your staff even have access to an internal backup if you wanted to get rid of it?
  • InvulgoInvulgo
    Reactions: 4,620
    Posts: 544
    Member
    edited February 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    Of course we can adapt, but why should we have to?

    Difficult question, I would say because we don't live in a vacuum world, things change. Not the best argument, I know. Changes in the gaming industry are really common both when it comes to community and in game. Not sure exactly why the old forum got removed, I assume it must have been some sort of digital policy or a way to save money, even if the bandwidth probably wasn’t that high (idk). Often when changes happen people tend to go into denial and then fight to defend it. Then people realize it can't be avoided and get insecure about the change. For instance how the lack of the old forum threatens our availability to information, I am not worried about that. Then the players realize that we can't have the old forums back and have no choice but to adapt, it can cause some despair. Then it turns into acceptance, we start to reflect on new ways to deal with it. Then we move forward.

    Tuba wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    I guess that demonstrates, in a nutshell, the value Nexon places on anything we say (and everything they've found fit to tell us in the past): it's all garbage.

    Even if the old forums contain usefull information is it really that bad? Gee.

    Yes, it is really that bad.
    I'm not going to repeat everything I already said in this thread yet another time, just reiterate: one does NOT just delete information en masse unless one is VERY VERY certain that it's all entirely useless.

    Well the old forums haven't actually been permanently deleted, there is an internal backup that staff can access. They aren't online for us anymore. I agree that the old forum did contain useful information about bugs and events that would be convenient to search for when it’s relevant. That being said, we will be just fine. This isn’t the first time Nexon has made older forums unavailable, the very first forum was also taken down. I struggle a bit to remember but it was back in the days when there was only one forum and the games/hosted titles were sub sections. We will adapt, just like we adapted last time, and how we adapted to this new webpage that removed quite a bit of old pages. When that happened we did manage to dig up lots of information from fan pages.

    We knew this was going to happen four months ago, hopefully people saved what they wanted.

    Also this forum will be optimized, things take time.

    But I don't understand why you guys put such high priority on getting rid of the old forums and not working on bettering this one? I mean you guys have a lot of fine tuning to do here and you put your priorities on getting rid of all the data to a outdated forums that players didn't want you to get rid of in the first place lol. It seems like such an unprofessional time wasting move. You could be putting time into improving this forums. I mean maybe it's just me but if I was in control of a forums and my current forums was mess, I would probably want to fix the current forums that players are most active on, before you would go to a totally dead forums and spend time deleting everything. And why does your staff even have access to an internal backup if you wanted to get rid of it?

    This forum will be optimized, it just takes time. It doesn't take much time to take down forums. You can do that by running a local webserver with a vBulletin installation and then a copy of the database. For people that know how to do it it doesn't take that long. Also we don't know if the same web teams are in charge of both forums. Most likely not.


  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,585
    Posts: 6,099
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited February 2017
    Invulgo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Of course we can adapt, but why should we have to?

    Difficult question, I would say because we don't live in a vacuum world, things change. Not the best argument, I know. Changes in the gaming industry are really common both when it comes to community and in game. Not sure exactly why the old forum got removed, I assume it must have been some sort of digital policy or a way to save money, even if the bandwidth probably wasn’t that high (idk). Often when changes happen people tend to go into denial and then fight to defend it. Then people realize it can't be avoided and get insecure about the change. For instance how the lack of the old forum threatens our availability to information, I am not worried about that. Then the players realize that we can't have the old forums back and have no choice but to adapt, it can cause some despair. Then it turns into acceptance, we start to reflect on new ways to deal with it. Then we move forward.

    Yes, yes, I know all about the 5 stages of grief.
    But just because people can cope with loss, doesn't mean that loss should be inflicted on them needlessly.
    Nexon has still not said a single word about why this hiding of information has become necessary. You "assume", Neospector "assumes", but nobody knows, and Nexon doesn't see fit to tell us. Which shows extreme disrespect.
    UzumeZeldaOfHyruleStéphyTuba