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Closed Is Maplestory ever going to get optimized?
I just wanted to put that question out there. Optimization is key in any good game, even someone who doesn't understand a thing about technology or programming would agree that fast + efficient = good. Yet, I'm not seeing a single thing about Maplestory done right in terms of performance. I just don't get it, do the developers even care? I don't have the greatest PC system, but it IS capable of running 3D games perfectly fine.
In case you didn't realize (sarcasm), Maplestory is a 2D game. Not a single bit of 3D modeling involved in the gameplay. It's completely flat. You can pretty much make an exact copy of Maplestory on C#. It'll be a large file, but I'm pretty sure it's completely doable. I just find it completely ridiculous that this game has hardly changed in the performance department for how old it is. They should be releasing patches every week, at the least, in order to ensure optimal performance. They might do some bug fixes, or release new characters, or make new maps- but honestly, as a player, I WANT OPTIMIZATION. I would rather they do that than anything else.
It's incredibly frustrating when you buy a new keyboard because you thought that your old one had broken when some of your key presses weren't registering at a very frequent rate- only to realize that it's just because of garbage programming. There is nothing more frustrating than dying to mobs 10+ levels below you just because your character wasn't responding for however many seconds it took for you to run out of potions and then watch your health bar slowly chip away until it hits 0. By "you" I mean "me."
I entirely believe that Maplestory is a decent game (performance aside) because it's quite unique. I think that if Maplestory started small advertisements on Youtube or some sort of social media platform, they'd easily rake in a few thousand new players. BUT. If that's every going to happen, they've first got to fix their bloody code. No new player is going to want to play a wreck of a game like this. Why would they? There's tons of other games out there that have the latest and greatest in terms of tech and software. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Maplestory needs 4k graphics- in fact, I'd rather they kept it the way it looks now. It's a part of Maplestory's appeal and I like it. BUTT. They need to optimize, like seriously optimize. Right now, the game rolls just about as smoothly as a cube downhill. It's terrible. Please, for the love of God and ice cream, fix the game.
Comments
Performance is generally one of those things that deteriorate with age and scale.
But I agree, they should figure out the constant client crashing issues and server stability.
During certain hours, I'm constantly lagging every few minutes, but then during other hours, there's no issue.
Some people cite bots as the main culprit, but I'm sure bots are on 24 hours a day.
Performance deteriorating with age is understandable- if it was a hardware problem. However, the thing is that 100% of Maplestory's performance issue lies in its software. These are things that they can literally fix right now, either by doing it manually themselves or, if they are so incompetent, by hiring capable programmers to do it for them. As this problem has continued to stay in Maplestory for years, as far back as I can remember, I'm assuming they are leaving it be largely due to laziness and/or unwillingness to spend money in fixing their product. I'm trying really hard not to blow up and rant (I literally just died again because I couldn't do anything but watch myself get killed), but it's hard to respect a game if the game creators themselves don't respect it either.
Even for the original programmer, you're asking a lot. If they don't have the original programmer/programmers who made the core engine...
You're asking people to read/understand thousands of line of code before they can even really start changing anything because they might break something.
The game isn't optimized BECAUSE it's old as dirt. They most likely never expected to be going this long.
That said, they HAVE tried to optimize it, slowly over time. The newer animation system cuts down on resources required for animation, for example.
One easier optimization that they could make to help both players and their servers is have meso bags automatically pickup.
This would mean players would never miss another meso bag, reduce the need for pets (which would still be nice to use) and reduce a stupid amount of items that the servers have to track.
Surely you're joking with this. Just because a game is buggy/laggy doesn't mean the creators don't respect it.
Yes, but it's like saying not to blame a procrastinator for having missing assignments just because he/she tried at the last moment to do an entire project in one night. I'm a person that doesn't play a huge variety of games, but one thing that I know was standard in every single one of them were weekly updates/maintenance breaks. They were constantly updating their game, not just with new features, characters, storylines, etc, but actual performance updates. They do this because they realize that they'll lose less and gain more players if they keep their game functioning properly- optimization was pretty much a must since a large portion of their playerbase won't or doesn't have a powerful operating system.
One example is League of Legends. That game uses 3D modeling and fancy animations, but it can still be run on pretty much every operating system, even the lower end units. It's quite the popular game, having a huge playerbase with many veterans who've been faithful players for over a decade- it's easy to see why. You don't need a particularly powerful computer to run the game at high graphic settings so you can still enjoy immersive gameplay without having to skimp out visually. However, recently, some things have started going south due to a recent patch. Players began complaining about incredible FPS or ping drop rates and it was clear to see that some people even took that opportunity to stop playing- me included.
It's clearly not working, some of their performance updates have actually been the reverse of helpful. There is absolutely no difference from low graphics to high graphics in terms of performance, aside from their obvious visual change. It's like low graphics are high graphic settings displaying low graphic visuals, in the end it's still high graphics. Transparency sliders do zilch. It's like making a poop splatter invisible, you may not see it but it's still there, still stinking the place up and slowing your performance down all the same.
I do like the idea of reducing the amount of entities the system has to keep track of but that would mean that pets would lose their main functionality. I don't know if they would ever do that but it may be possible since they already give out the sheep pet for free.
Oh, I'm not joking at all. Maplestory displays a blatant level of uncare in comparison to other games I've played. The maintenance and optimization of a game is basic stuff, it's not even hard to see why such a procedure is necessary. Maybe I'm just assuming things, maybe the developers really do care, but it still stands that the state of the game and their lack of action indicates otherwise. The thing in business is that even if you do care about something, if your actions/product don't reflect that, customers will think of what you produce as how you feel and it will be entirely your fault as that is the image you are projecting. Well, even without the whole "company's reputation" on the line, if you honestly cared for something, would you let it break down and deteriorate as much as this game has? If you really wanted the game to work properly, even if you didn't have the skills to make it function, you'd still do what you could to get someone else who could do it in your stead.
its all about how the code its made and how its updated/changed/taken care
(yea sure maple was made in different OS thats not used but still there is way to make those work or even simulate same environment)
you cant have 1950 ford car or some other old car with just exterior updates to expect to run as bugatti chiron
but you can have that ford or other old car run good/as it was if you put good care if not rust and other issue will come
same with all games around you cant just load the old games with mods to look like brand new 8k and so without code optimize/change
other game examples
GTA famous all time game with many versions
you can load gta vice city and make it look like gta V but it wont run as smooth as clean gta V code
counter strike
also old game but "taken care" good code that worked over the years and still can be run on all systems as good as it was back in the days
Yes, admittedly I've not played very many, but I think there is a certain standard that should be kept. It doesn't make it ok to commit crimes just because other people are doing the same, likewise, it doesn't make it ok to leave the game in this mess because other companies are as well. What Maplestory is doing right now are minor bug fixes/updates- that's fine and all, but what the game really needs is a massive revamp.
No, I'd argue that a game with better programming is the best example. It's literally the ideal, what you want or need the game to be on par with. There's hardly any point in comparing games that are both failing in the software department if you want changes. It makes much more sense to point out the level of optimization you want the game to be. Additionally, League of Legends had a massive client update a while ago- I think they rewrote the whole, or the majority, or important elements of the client's software (not entirely sure either). The end result was them dumping the old client and releasing an entirely new client. It wasn't perfect at first, but Riot (the company) had been working on it for some time trying to iron out bugs and issues before it hit live servers- and even after, the community and developers worked together to get the major issues fixed on and after its release.
How odd. It does absolutely nothing for me, I've tried many, many times (mostly because I kept getting constant frame stutters).
I didn't mean function as an ability but rather as an appeal or characteristic. Most people want pets for their ability to pick up items, it's highly convenient.
No clue at first, I can give them that. If they still have no clue 10+ years later...
If they did want their game to work, they'd do their best to work through said issues. It's not just time or money that goes into optimizing software, a large part of it is dedication to fixing issues that you run into. No code is likely to be perfect on the first try, you've got to keep going until you find a solution.
That's what the beta servers are for. I think Maplestory has an equivalent to League of Legends' PBE (Public Beta Environment) server, I believe it's called PTE but I could be wrong.
I'm entirely aware of what I'm asking for. Even a person with no programming experience would recognize that Maplestory is a massive file. There are thousands of items, images, animations, etc. that are in the game that all have to work together coherently. It's not something that will take a day or two to organize. Something like restructuring Maplestory into an actually efficient system will take quite a long time, but it's still something that can be done- something that's not being done right now because they simply don't want to (for various reasons). It just goes to show that the developers of Maplestory lack initiative on pretty much every major front.
If the other servers are in better shape, then it's something GMS team needs to figure out.
League is an awful example. They're not even the same genre. They don't require the same attention.
League was also created later (Released 2009, Riot opened doors 2006, so probably in development since then)
Programming standards had already changed a lot by this point to create better bases for these games to be supported on.
MapleStory was released in 2003, so most likely development goes back to at least 2001 or 2000.
MMORPG was still a very young genre at this point, hence why adaptable codebase and long term support weren't really a priority for these games.
If you want a better comparison, you need to at least find an MMO from around 2003.
Pets would still retain that main function if meso bags didn't exist. There are still plenty of items for them to pick up that players are too lazy to mash a pickup key to go grab.
This is why I don't think you understand the scope of what you're asking for.
If you did, you'd be easily able to tell that they are in fact trying.
Look at all the various changes MapleStory has had in the past few years.
Going from Nova to Current:
New Classes: Illium, Cadena, Ark, Pathfinder, Hoyoung
New Areas: Morass, Esfera, Savage Terminal, Moon Bridge, Labyrinth of Suffering, Limina, Elodin Forest, Ancient Ruins Partem, Cheong-woon Valley
New Systems: Maple Achievement, V Matrix Points, Bonus Flames|25 Stars (New for GMS), Boss Practice Mode, Fairy Bros
New Bosses: Papulatus Revamp, Will, Gloom, Verus Hilla, Captain Darknell, Black Mage
There's a few things I missed in that I know but not the point.
But all these content updates come with bug fixes as well. Going from just this year until current, (This year isn't even over yet) there are over 600 listed fixes on the website. Excluding things like "Windows Update" or "Server backend fixes".
These are just the listed changes. There are most certainly more that either were not listed, forgotten about or simply backend that players don't need to know about.
I think if you still feel that the developers "lack initiative" then you lack respect for just how hard it is to be a developer.
GMS development is handled by Korea now, or so the story goes.
See? You don't seem to understand my entire point. I've been saying this whole time that they need to change. You keep trying to box games into categories when I've been saying that those categories need to be gone. Maplestory shouldn't be sitting back, content that they can keep the game in this state simply because they are "old." If you want to every be successful, you've got to be able to adapt. League is over 10 years old now. It's still keeping up to the times- they've made many minor and major changes through the course of the years to stay relevant in terms of both software and content. However, Maplestory seems mainly interested in attempting to stay relevant in content only and their software is clearly taking a backseat priority.
Who says games from nearly 20 years ago can't still be maintained and updated to be relevant in the present? You seem very insistent that games from 20 years ago should only be compared to other games from 20 years ago, but how is that going to change anything. I want Maplestory's software to be updated to modern standards, something that won't get done if you keep trying to compare Maplestory on "similar terms." I want Maplestory's software to become as efficient and organized as League of Legends, not this nonsense RO game that you yourself have clearly stated to being a mess.
Yes... we are talking about the same thing. There was no need to bring that up?
Those are content changes. Completely useless in the software department which was the whole point of this discussion. Maplestory's software needs to be revamped in its entirety. These changes in content do absolutely nothing for how the game runs on OS and are irrelevant.
Again, these are all minor updates and bug fixes. It's like pointing at band-aids and saying they've done good when there's a bloody broken leg right there next to it. All these bug fixes you are talking about are just mini patches fixing an impossibly broken system that won't get fixed no matter how many band-aids you slap on it. Like I've been saying, they need an entirely NEW system, or at least organize everything in this one, because none of their changes will make this game run better. The problem is a fundamental issue to how they've structured Maplestory's software.
I can't have much respect for anyone that is not trying, I'm sure everyone would agree. By "not trying," I mean in their game system as a whole, not those minor bug fixes you've spoken about. If you want to say they've been trying, stop trying to point out all these individual changes/updates and point me to where Maplestory's developers are actively optimizing the system as a whole. This means things on the scale of getting rid of this ridiculous system of layering content on top of content.
I don't mean to undermine the developer's efforts in trying to keep this game afloat, but quite frankly, it's like trying to keep the Titanic from sinking after it hit the iceberg. It's already going down, the game is still deteriorating. Rather than slapping band-aids on a gaping hole, they need a new damn boat.
Those 600+ bug fixes you've mentioned, while admirable, it does nothing for the macro state of the game. It's quite similar to a broken vase. What the developers are doing now is picking up broken pieces and instead of tossing it away and getting a new vase, they're gluing the pieces back together.
I've given you two analogies as to what I'm saying and what I want so that you don't misunderstand this time. TLDR: minor bug fixes < whole system organization and/or revamp.
"They never fix bugs"
"Here are 600+ bugs they've fixed this year alone"
"BUT WHAT ABOUT THESE BUGS THAT ARE STILL IN THE GAME HMMM?"
Also, saying they're "not trying" because the game still has bugs is a ludicrous assumption to make. Have you ever had to maintain a legacy system?
You sum it up nicely here. This is why I again say, you don't understand the scope of what you ask for.
You are asking for an entirely new engine to be developed. While also still working with all the old content.
This is such a huge undertaking and why the age of the game absolutely DOES matter. MapleStory has a decade and a half of content that would have to work with this new engine.
Not only this, but you have to make sure this new engine supports the old outdated files or has a conversion method for those old files into the new files.
These old files being things that are not easily converted like image files, but rather complex systems like databases (IE: Player data)
Most likely this kind of undertaking would take years and meanwhile Nexon still has to support the current game.
It's not the most feasible thing to do, and to suggest that "It's either this or they don't care at all" is beyond ignorant.
In order to get what you want, you're basically asking that this entire game be thrown out and that Nexon start fresh.
If you really want that, I suggest you go play MapleStory 2 or a different game entirely.
Alternatively, take a stab at learning to at least read code and look into source code for games.
You'll find out just how ignorant you really are.
This is precisely why you'll see office environments running outdated or even antiquated systems. You'll see a machine shop, or a graphic printing company, running Windows XP on PCs with no internet connection, their only served purpose being to control printing presses or cutting machines. You'll see offices with backups or some form of record-keeping on a system that was last relevant sometime in the mid-to-late 90's. Updating the backend of a live service is not the same as clicking "update and shut down" every few weeks on your home PC. They are nowhere close to the same ballpark.
This is why I specifically stated it the way I did, which you seem to have missed gloriously. Look again:
As you can see, I specifically stated that in reference to the game state as a whole, not individual bug fixes. I've also never stated that Maplestory never fixes bugs, I don't know where you got that notion but it's completely wrong and besides the point. I've said multiple times that while the developers are bug fixing the game, it's not what the game needs. You can't effectively optimize a system this bad. You can try, but it's likely not worth the effort and would but far more beneficial to make a whole new system (for effort and yield).
I don't see why you have to make the old content work with the new content. That's just making an unnecessary addition to the problem. Making the old content work with new content would be difficult, especially if getting the old code to respond to the new code is tricky. All you have to do is rewrite them in the new software- I say "All you have to do," but I realize it would hardly be that easy. However, it would likely be much more straightforward than having to go through loops in trying to figure out a way to make the relationship work between the old and new. Yes, it will be a lot of effort but in terms of potential benefits? It could go quite a long way.
While I don't think it would take years, converting player data from the old to new system would be admittedly difficult. This is one of the few places where simply rewriting the code wouldn't work and you'd need a conversion method. I'm not sure if you said "years" because you thought they'd have to individually transfer player account data, but it would be far faster and more efficient if they made a sort of [item_xxxx](old system) = [item_zzzz](new system). Since they'd already be writing the code for the new system, all it would need is a proper conversion method. I realize that this would add a step in computing, for example: you press 'Z' to pick up a snail shell. The system would read the pick up command for: [item_xxxx], [item_xxxx] = [item_zzzz], a two-step process instead of simply a pick up command for [item_zzzz].
This is going on the assumption that they can't just simply reference from the old system. When League of Legends redid their client, they didn't just dump every single thing in favor of the new. I can still see some of the same functions that existed in the Legacy client (old client) in the current client. What they did was restructure/add new functions and basically modernize the client so that they could set "a strong foundation... [to] stand for years to come"- as they so put it. It didn't involve having to remake every single individual function. Usable parts were kept and the ones that didn't make the cut were trashed. It wouldn't be unreasonable to say that many basic functions of Maplestory now could still be used in a new system.
Well, I already established from the last point- no. They don't need to toss everything, just the bits that are dated (which is still a lot).
While there are likely a lot of things I don't know (same for everyone), I don't see why you'd say I'm ignorant. I've not once made light of the process in creating a new system (something you try and berate me for at every turn), I've acknowledged and said many times myself that it would be a difficult task, but I've also made it clear that it's not an impossible one. I don't know where you keep getting these notions, I've literally stated as clear-cut as possible what I thought would be best for the game.
I know how difficult coding is, I took a year-long class and while I found it fun, it was pretty stressful debugging, especially if it was in a complex program. That said, these are professionals- not to be mistaken with a one-year course like me. Some of them have years upon years of experience, I'd imagine it'd be quite insulting if I immediately wrote off their skills like that. They've somehow kept this spaghetti game afloat, if barely, all these years- it wouldn't be a stretch to say they're experienced (unless some were hired off private contracts which have since expired).
PS: I've already tried Maplestory 2, but it wasn't for me. The game was just kind... bubbly. I don't know how to put it but it was throwing me off so I stopped.
Converting data isn't the hard part. The harder part is making sure the new system CAN use the old data (or else conversion is required) or if that isn't possible, making sure no oversights are taken with the old database and that conversion is 100% successful and no errors are made.
They only get one shot if they go the conversion route. Because any additional changes beyond the initial conversion will affect a LIVE COPY.
Making sure this isn't the case will take time.
It depends on how deeply the code is affected to get the improvements you want. It could be very deep in the code meaning that it will break almost everything.
Unless it was programmed with modularity in mind, any change will most likely break a lot if not all functions.
The reason such a change was easier for LoL is that they keep their "client" (Launcher) separate from the actual game itself. (IE: It's a modular system)
Coding in a work environment and by yourself are two completely separate beasts. That gap you imagine from just a year of a class to professional coding, that's the gap between coding alone and coding on a team, professionally or not.
The larger the project the more those extra team members have to be coordinated to not mess each other up.
It's not an impossible task, no. But again, I don't think you know just how much you're asking Nexon to bite off here.
Publishers are likely to decline these types of things. It takes such a long time and is such a massive undertaking that a publisher usually isn't willing to put up with it.
Even if Nexon wanted to do this, when I say it might take longer than a year, I completely mean that. During this time when the programming is happening, you're displacing several teams as well. Artists, Musicians, Scenario Writers, Designers... basically anyone who isn't a programmer is most likely going to be displaced (Forced to work on a different team), fired (easier to replace low level drones than keep them around) or forced to go onto leave, if that be unpaid or otherwise.
This means a lot of people are going to look for other jobs and may never return to the company.
Nexon (Nor any company) most likely isn't going to pay them to sit on their asses all day. It's actually more of a risk to attempt something like this and if not handled correctly, can actually kill a game.
I "berate you" because in my eyes, you ARE making light of what needs to be done here.
Each region has different hardware and softwares running their server. Advanced optimization requires knowing strength and weakness of the hardware and coding around it. Since different hardware is used, the developer in Korea has to settle for a generalized optimization that fit all hardware.
Nexon has a limited control over network and routing. They can optimization data going in and out of their server and your computer, but they are at the mercy of the local ISP between you and them (bad routing, snapped internet cable, congestion, going through multiple firewall when traveling between countries)
MapleStory is a very big game (15 GB), where majority of the data is not in memory. The game does this (i think) to retrieve the file:
decrypt the game file (storage speed, CPU speed)-> locate the data (storage speed) -> move data from storage to RAM (storage speed) -> make it appear in game (cpu speed)
(Storage speed is dependent on whether it is HDD or SSD)
Majority of the slowness is loading 25+ images (equipment, effect, hair, eye, pet) for each character in the map. There is no way to predict what is to be loaded ahead of time cause everyone has different taste in style, and pre-loading everything is bad for the RAM usage. (though there could optimization of not making the game hang when it loading other characters into the map *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*)
no its eazy to blame on game age and other nonsense then actually work on it like other servers
also there is no GMS team that works on things alone so they often copy/paste from other and try fit somehow in GMS working or not they
ctrl c ctrl v
here we got 100 milion bugs "fix" done last week in GMS dose it matter if they work in reality ?
stop saying there are no bug fix they just happend to not work in GMS its old game you know...
i dont know any version of MS that do that like GMS
( like care for the x amount of bugs fixed x amount of hackers banned instead care of what works and is there less hackers)
in KMS/KMST they reward players for finding,testing bugs and ways it can be done better thats why very few bugs goes on live server
maplestory its same across all regions more or less
the teams that works in each of those regions makes the localizantion and few changes
the issue its those teams copy-paste eachother often without makeing sure it fits right before goes live
once broken things goes on live server its madness to make any change back
also
15~GB its not big game lol more like smallest game around if we see from other games
WoW is 60 GB~
Guild of wars 40GB~
LoL its 20GB ~
fortnite its 45GB~
PUBG its 40GB~
apex its 30GB~
running all fine on PC on max settings no sign of CPU or GPU throttling
again game size its not importan as much as clean code and good care
code never gets old/ changed with time by itself once its made it runs as its made and cared
No, what do you mean "they only get one shot if they go the conversion route." League of Legend's client is still riddled with bugs, people are still complaining that it's slower than the Legacy client, and people are constantly talking about them on League Boards or Reddit. Even a company as massive as Riot is having problems with releasing a perfect client, you think anyone expects Maplestory to do the same? No one expects perfect software from anybody. That's why they have bug fixes and patch notes. Is Maplestory perfect right now? Are there no errors in the code? The game is riddled with them because the current programming method is dated and amateurish in organization and execution. The point is to constantly improve, to constantly adapt. Maplestory is taking very, very minor steps in comparison to other games or even basic standards, it's why their software is still incredibly slow and dated.
Just an FYI, it's been 3 years since the release of League of Legend's Legacy client and they are still updating to fix bugs/slow programming. It just goes to show that it's a process, a process Maplestory isn't willing to take.
I've stated time and time again that I know this will be a difficult process. Exactly to what extent, I'm not aware, but I am certain that it will take much time, money, and effort to do. New systems don't just pop up like that, everything needs to be done by a skilled development team with a coordinator. I'm more upset that they haven't taken more major steps toward a properly functioning game, when that is what it truly needs, and have stuck to these 600+ bug fixes for years. If they'd properly updated the system as the years passed, this problem would not have been as big as it is now.
Yes, as I've stated, there is a job for that... it's called a program coordinator. They make decent money and handle everything from budget to work hours to the assignment and distribution of tasks. While it's obvious to you and me that I'm no professional, the point is that they are. They know how to work with other development workers, it's what they've been doing for years.
Seriously? I've already stated that it's hard to respect someone that doesn't even try and you've literally just given me more reason to not respect them. Every one of your arguments are about how it is "likely" or "probably" when the state of the game is as big a mess as it is.
You don't seem to realize that companies have different departments, yes? You have a team that handles the software, a team for music, a team for storylines, character design, artwork, balancing, etc. They aren't all in one department, that's completely inefficient and there's no way a single person can be fluent in every part of a game's needs. Their development team will likely (not sure how large the team is) be overwhelmed with such a task so Maplestory has the completely obvious option of hiring private contractors. Their contracts can be made for them to be hired for as long as it takes to complete the new system, it's not a rare thing. There are more freelance programmers than there are full-time.
Sigh. Whatever dude. I've stated multiple times that I know that it won't be easy, that it will take much time, effort, money, that it will take initiative... but yep. I'm "making light of what needs to be done."