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Regarding Hero's Self Recovery skill

OgnavaOgnava
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Given how many classes have this skill, or a variation of it, like Buccaneer, Mercedes, Kaiser, Adele, and arguably Dawn Warrior as well, and how their versions all heal %HP and %MP as oppose to a flat amount, I see no reason why Hero should be the only class that has a version of the skill that becomes borderline useless after a certain level.
It's a minor thing, but I think changing it to heal 5% HP and MP every 5 seconds like the others would make the class retain the comfortability that Self Recovery gives you when you first unlock it.

Comments

  • Penguinz0Penguinz0
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    edited October 2020
    Ognava wrote: »
    Given how many classes have this skill, or a variation of it, like Buccaneer, Mercedes, Kaiser, Adele, and arguably Dawn Warrior as well, and how their versions all heal %HP and %MP as oppose to a flat amount, I see no reason why Hero should be the only class that has a version of the skill that becomes borderline useless after a certain level.
    It's a minor thing, but I think changing it to heal 5% HP and MP every 5 seconds like the others would make the class retain the comfortability that Self Recovery gives you when you first unlock it.

    You know what those many classes with %hp and %mp heal don't have?
    20 sec cd i-frame skill.
  • OgnavaOgnava
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    edited October 2020
    You know what those many classes with %hp and %mp heal don't have?
    20 sec cd i-frame skill.

    That's completely unrelated.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited October 2020
    It kind of isn't unrelated though.
  • OgnavaOgnava
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    edited October 2020
    Well it's not what this thread is about. Make a separate thread if you want to discuss i-frames, but I don't think the CD on an i-frame skill has any real relevance to a thread about a passive regen skill.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited October 2020
    When you can literally become invincible every 20 seconds, there's substantially less reliance on getting back a percentage of health per hit.
  • OgnavaOgnava
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    edited October 2020
    That's true, you're absolutely right. However Hero's regen skill is not healing on hit, it's every 5 seconds, which deals with an entirely different kind of damage. Where you would use Worldreaver to avoid attacks that would do a lot of damage, Self Recovery helps deal with minor hits that happen over time, for example when grinding or farming something. Or it would if it healed %HP instead of a flat amount. Does that make sense?
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited October 2020
    Ognava wrote: »
    That's true, you're absolutely right. However Hero's regen skill is not healing on hit, it's every 5 seconds, which deals with an entirely different kind of damage. Where you would use Worldreaver to avoid attacks that would do a lot of damage, Self Recovery helps deal with minor hits that happen over time, for example when grinding or farming something. Or it would if it healed %HP instead of a flat amount. Does that make sense?

    Different classes have different approaches to survival and HP/MP recovery. Asking to have everything other classes get will simply make all classes identical, and the game boring.

    If you're talking about grinding and farming, Hero has high defense and takes relatively little damage from normal mobs, so it can manage just fine with %HP potions like Ginger Ales (available in Ninja Castle) or (power) Elixirs that drop from bosses. You can use a pet with Auto-HP if you tend to forget to use potions in time.
    You can also fairly easily obtain a familiar that heals HP. Just farm familiar cards and use the Rare ones until you find one that heals. Familiar healing is %HP based.

    Finally, in Arcane River, make sure to have 1.5x the Arcane Force necessary for a map you intend to train in, so you take only 1 damage from enemies in that map.
  • OgnavaOgnava
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    edited October 2020
    AKradian wrote: »
    Different classes have different approaches to survival and HP/MP recovery. Asking to have everything other classes get will simply make all classes identical, and the game boring.
    That's not quite what I'm asking for though. It's not like I'm asking for Hero to suddenly get Heal like Bishops, I'm simply saying there's no reason for Hero's Self Recovery skill to be so much worse than other classes version of the very same skill. You make a fair point, however to compare different classes, and their approaches to survival, Hero and Kaiser have the same approach to it, Hero is simply worse at it for no real reason.
  • Penguinz0Penguinz0
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    edited October 2020
    Ognava wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Different classes have different approaches to survival and HP/MP recovery. Asking to have everything other classes get will simply make all classes identical, and the game boring.
    That's not quite what I'm asking for though. It's not like I'm asking for Hero to suddenly get Heal like Bishops, I'm simply saying there's no reason for Hero's Self Recovery skill to be so much worse than other classes version of the very same skill. You make a fair point, however to compare different classes, and their approaches to survival, Hero and Kaiser have the same approach to it, Hero is simply worse at it for no real reason.

    There is a real reason for it. He Has 20 Sec CD I-frame Skill
    He's already able to dodge bosses' big attack every 20 sec. He shouldn't and doesn't need to be able to deal with minor damage patterns with this opaf utility in his belt. It's a trade off. Are you willing to give up worldreaver's short cd in exchange for some %hp heal over time?
  • OgnavaOgnava
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    edited October 2020
    Penguinz0 wrote: »
    There is a real reason for it. He Has 20 Sec CD I-frame Skill
    He's already able to dodge bosses' big attack every 20 sec. He shouldn't and doesn't need to be able to deal with minor damage patterns with this opaf utility in his belt. It's a trade off. Are you willing to give up worldreaver's short cd in exchange for some %hp heal over time?
    Are you suggesting that being able to avoid one attack every 20 seconds is enough to offset the amount of regen that a class like Kaiser or Adele (which by the way can get both 4 seconds of invincibility every 30-ish seconds if used correctly AND %HP regen) would be able to get? Because I don't think that's the case at all.
    And I should clarify that I'm not arguing this is necessary in any way, I'm not saying it needs to change. However I have yet to hear a single reason why it shouldn't change that isn't immediately made invalid when compared to other classes with the same skill. And so rather than removing it entirely, why not make it heal %HP and MP to be able to keep up with the rest of the classes that have the very same skill?
    I really didn't think this would be such a point of contention.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited October 2020
    Adele is the "overpowered new class" you shouldn't be comparing anything to. It'll get nerfed when it comes time to release a new class for people to fund.

    Kaiser has all sorts of features that Hero lacks, like the ability to ignore Damage Reflect, a stationary summon that keeps working even if you move away, and a no-cooldown vertical grapple. And still there are way more Heroes than Kaisers. You know why? Because Hero has the damage.

    In the original design of the three explorer warriors, Hero is the one who does the most damage and has the least survivability. This design persists to this day, although Hero has been given a few more survival skills, like self recovery (originally they had none beyond what Beginners got), the iframe people keep talking about, Blitz Shield, and Erda Nova. If you want more passive healing, you can either use an auto-pot pet, or a familiar. If you don't want to do any of that, you're going to have to pick another class, and give up some of your damage. Seems fair to me, and I'm a Hero main.
    Don't get me wrong. If Nexon Korea decided to give Heroes more passive healing or drain abilities, I wouldn't complain. But I don't think that asking for such features is justified .