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Gambling or Gaming

MapleSapoMapleSapo
Reactions: 745
Posts: 84
Member
in General Chat
https://ibb.co/kXX251D

Greetings Maplers, yesterday I saw this maple notice for the first time: "[Notice] Gambling creates a disruptive enviroment for other players, and is harmful to the long-term health of the game."
By definition of Gambling we have this: play games of chance for money; bet; take risky action in the hope of a desired result. Basically Lucky Games.
Now that being stated, what is the most obvious Gambling system we have in the game? Potential system, of course. We must pay real money on cubes to try our luck on getting the desired potential, which is needed in order to advance to late/end game and to be able to fully enjoy the game. You can say "no, we have free cubes as drops or events" but these are not even close to the results of the paid cubes, and we all know that, we all know we are stuck on paying for cubes or like some people does, paying someone with mesos for cube service. With everything here explained, I ask you, is this a way of Nexon to admit they are wrong and they will change this eventually to make the game and comunity healthier instead of making the cash shop a real casino for kids and others? By long-term I can only think that this Paid-Potential system had been a thing for too many years. But we can't just say like "well, it is what it is, nothing is going to change, if you don't like it don't play it". I don't want to give up on making the game I love be healthier to everyone. Cash shop should be a feature for people who want to pay for clothes, chairs, even pets, but not a Gambling place. I know reboot has cubes for mesos, but seriously, reboot mesos system is terrible, farming is exaustive and repetitive to in the end you use the hard earned mesos on - again- a Gambling system, now where you use your time as a coin (which in my opition is risky enough).
These are just some things I have in mind for years and decided to talk about after I noticed this Maple Notice that clearly states they know they are wrong. I hope this reach enough players, I want their opinion. And I hope that maybe Nexon - not a volunteer - say something about this. Gambling is not cool, and is ilegal in many countries. Is not something you expect to see in a game for people of all ages.

Comments

  • Bilbo2012Bilbo2012
    Reactions: 720
    Posts: 12
    Member
    edited December 2020
    This game was made in Korea, correct? I think they have different laws on this (gambling), so does each country that allows the playing of this game.
    I do notice this addictive feeling too. That is why I take breaks from playing this game. Especially during events.
    Other then that it is free to play, but your own health is your responsibility. like choosing to eat a salad over a burger. That is similar to mental and physical health. But I only ever took one class of Psychology at a College and not a Licensed Psychologist. Though I like to think I can help people. But remember its also your interpretation, and how much your willing to agree on that.
    But what MapleSapo is saying. I too understand that this game is a "Gambling" game.
    MapleSapo
  • RexaarRexaar
    Reactions: 3,645
    Posts: 925
    Member
    edited December 2020
    You can buy maple points with meso to buy cube from the cash shop on regular server.
    Playing grinding games is a preference, we put up with it until the abuse become too much.
    As much as gambling is bad, the pleasure you get from from gambling is different from a guaranteed reward after a certain point is reached and appeals to different variety of players. (roller coaster of emotion vs anticipation) (technically monsters is a walking lootbox that fight back if it strong enough)
    As far as revenue go, there are significantly less fashion whales than p2w whales.
  • LaudierLaudier
    Reactions: 1,050
    Posts: 29
    Member
    edited December 2020
    you know the meme
    mw0luky.jpg

    we as maplers have been and are tolerating the level of RNG, predatory lootboxes, and slot machine type rewards. we might not in the future.

    but for now , game designers are making content for those 'MVP diamond/Red ch1 arcane river bosser' type maplers.
    MapleSapoSlicedTimeNebulBlasterMaster
  • MeatMeat
    Reactions: 715
    Posts: 36
    Member
    edited December 2020
    There aren't any RNG-based events in the game that would legally be considered gambling in most western countries. Since the Maple-Tip references the legal definition of gambling there's nothing contradictory about it.
  • MapleSapoMapleSapo
    Reactions: 745
    Posts: 84
    Member
    edited January 2021
    Laudier wrote: »
    you know the meme
    mw0luky.jpg

    we as maplers have been and are tolerating the level of RNG, predatory lootboxes, and slot machine type rewards. we might not in the future.

    but for now , game designers are making content for those 'MVP diamond/Red ch1 arcane river bosser' type maplers.

    This meme says a lot about what this game have become.
    Meat wrote: »
    There aren't any RNG-based events in the game that would legally be considered gambling in most western countries. Since the Maple-Tip references the legal definition of gambling there's nothing contradictory about it.

    I don't know about what would be legally be considered gambling, but placing what we have in a simple example is more than enough to prove that this is gambling, and even if it is legal or not, it is not healthy and goes against what Nexon itself says "All acts of gambling violates the ToS" and "Gambling creates a disruptive enviroment for other players, and is harmful to the long-term health of the game."
    IE: You pay real money to try your luck to obtain what you want. This simple phrase can be about Cubes in game, or a simple slot machine in a casino in real life. The phrase don't even has to be changed, because the act of gambling here is basically the same.

    I know that many people does not care about paying if they have the money. But this game could benefit of having the cash shop only for clothes, pets, mounts, chairs, etc. Could be a healthier game in my opinion. Most people that ask me or friends about the game, if they should start (or come back - pre bb players), they always ask "is this game pay to win?" or "can I do the end game without using real money?". It is sad to see what this game become. So much potential, but not a healthy game. It is heartbreaking.
  • OccireOccire
    Reactions: 1,935
    Posts: 140
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2021
    I know this seems like a big "gotcha" moment towards Nexon, but the MapleTips are actually referring to player-run gambling games. I think the one most people would be familiar with is a lottery type game: bots used to spam about "most equitable powerball" games run in the free market. Nexon is not okay with that kind of stuff, hence, the MapleTips.

    I'm not saying Nexon can't be downright predatory with regards to cubes and other cash shop stuff, but the MapleTips are very much not about that.
    MapleSapo
  • MapleSapoMapleSapo
    Reactions: 745
    Posts: 84
    Member
    edited January 2021
    Occire wrote: »
    I know this seems like a big "gotcha" moment towards Nexon, but the MapleTips are actually referring to player-run gambling games. I think the one most people would be familiar with is a lottery type game: bots used to spam about "most equitable powerball" games run in the free market. Nexon is not okay with that kind of stuff, hence, the MapleTips.

    I'm not saying Nexon can't be downright predatory with regards to cubes and other cash shop stuff, but the MapleTips are very much not about that.

    Yeah I get your point.. But still, this feels so hipocrit of them. "We don't like gambling, this is harmfull to the comunity, unless of course we are the house".
    I know everything is about money in this world, im not a kid anymore.. but I trully have some hope that maybe someday Nexon really starts to hear their whole comunity and think about the game as the masterpiece I see on it, not just another farm where they milk their players till they give up and new players come to their trap.
  • EffortlessEffortless
    Reactions: 1,580
    Posts: 63
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2021
    Welcome to Korean MMOs?
  • BlasterMasterBlasterMaster
    Reactions: 1,395
    Posts: 226
    Member
    edited January 2021
    Want to know how an actual Pachinko machine works in Japan?

    Gambling for money is illegal in Japan, so casinos have a clever (well, maybe not, since it's not a secret) way to get by that law. Pachinko machines and similar devices other dispense Pachinko balls, which are not money, but can be exchanged at the casino for prizes or tokens, which can then be exchanged for cash by a merchant who is nominally not affiliated with the casino. One prize exchange merchant may serve a number of nearby casinos, getting a percentage of the prize's value when it is collected by the casino.

    Kind of like a Chuckie Cheese game room for adults.

    Fully legal, and not in violation of any law, and that is exactly how the gambling in Maplestory works, via a legal loophole
  • HeraldGgHeraldGg
    Reactions: 100
    Posts: 3
    Member
    MapleSapo wrote: »
    https://ibb.co/kXX251D

    Greetings Maplers, yesterday I saw this maple notice for the first time: "[Notice] Gambling creates a disruptive enviroment for other players, and is harmful to the long-term health of the game."
    By definition of Gambling we have this: play games of chance for money; bet; take risky action in the hope of a desired result. Basically Lucky Games.
    Now that being stated, what is the most obvious Gambling system we have in the game? Potential system, of course. We must pay real money on cubes to try our luck on getting the desired potential, which is needed in order to advance to late/end game and to be able to fully enjoy the game. You can say "no, we have free cubes as drops or events" but these are not even close to the results of the paid cubes, and we all know that, we all know we are stuck on paying for cubes or like some people does, paying someone with mesos for cube service. With everything here explained, I ask you, is this a way of Nexon to admit they are wrong and they will change this eventually to make the game and comunity healthier instead of making the cash shop a real casino for kids and others? By long-term I can only think that this Paid-Potential system had been a thing for too many years. But we can't just say like "well, it is what it is, nothing is going to change, if you don't like it don't play it". I don't want to give up on making the game I love be healthier to everyone. Cash shop should be a feature for people who want to pay for clothes, chairs, even pets, but not a Gambling place. I know reboot has cubes for mesos, but seriously, reboot mesos system is terrible, farming is exaustive and repetitive to in the end you use the hard earned mesos on - again- a Gambling system, now where you use your time as a coin (which in my opition is risky enough).
    These are just some things I have in mind for years and decided to talk about after I noticed this Maple Notice that clearly states they know they are wrong. I hope this reach enough players, I want their opinion. And I hope that maybe Nexon - not a volunteer - say something about this. Gambling is not cool, and is ilegal in many countries. Is not something you expect to see in a game for people of all ages.


    There aren't any RNG-based events in the game that would legally be considered gambling in most western countries.
  • HeraldGgHeraldGg
    Reactions: 100
    Posts: 3
    Member
    Want to know how an actual Pachinko machine works in Japan?
  • HeraldGgHeraldGg
    Reactions: 100
    Posts: 3
    Member
    edited November 2022
    Moderator note: Gambling site ad removed.
  • toonzeytoonzey
    Reactions: 410
    Posts: 8
    Member
    edited November 2022
    i was oblivious before reading your very long statement . thank you.
  • SirSpoonySirSpoony
    Posts: 2
    Member
    Yeah, I hope one-day game companies can't destroy people's wallets by making them feel like they can't get anywhere other than spending hundreds, even thousands, and for some games out there...hundreds of thousands! I miss the days when games were about gaming and had healthy-growing communities that were capable of a healthy ecosystem and trading. Not the free-to-play demons of the various gaming companies that are forcing money from you or you get nowhere in the game at all or you can but it will take you years by comparison to someone spending a bunch of money now.

    Sadly Nexon is just like all the rest and nothing will ever change; it is all about $$$ and not you or me as a player.
  • LsaissLaiLsaissLai
    Reactions: 100
    Post: 1
    Member
    edited December 2022
    All game companies are in it for the money. They want you to spend, spend, spend. And if you don't, you'll never get anywhere in the game. It's all a big money-making scheme, and it's sickening. I missed the days when games were fun, and you could actually play them without having to spend a fortune. Nowadays, it seems like you have to spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars, to keep up with the Joneses. And for some games out there, you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to be competitive! It's just not right. Anyway, I've studied this subject from the perspective of https://www.ufabet.school/เว็บพนัน/ and got some tips on how to avoid such "game-systems".

  • ReeseMcclainReeseMcclain
    Post: 1
    Member
    Hello there! I noticed that this is an older forum post, but I still wanted to share my thoughts. As a fellow player, I understand the frustration of feeling like you have to spend real money just to progress in the game. Well, I don't think Nexon will ever fully admit that the potential system is a form of gambling, I do agree that the cash shop should be more focused on cosmetic items rather than in-game advantages. It's important for players to voice their opinions on these issues, as it shows Nexon that we care about the game and want to see it improve.
  • LailaAyersLailaAyers
    Reactions: 100
    Post: 1
    Member
    edited December 2023
    The debate over whether these systems should be considered gambling and regulated accordingly has gained traction in recent years.But your passion for making the gaming experience healthier and more enjoyable for everyone is commendable. Many players share your concerns, and it's vital for game developers to listen to their community and find ways to address these issues while maintaining a sustainable business model.While discussing online casino games, it's essential to emphasize that they offer a different kind of thrill but also come with risks.