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I dislike how botting violations are enforced.

Comments

  • PeepPeep
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    edited February 2017
    Yeah there are certain hackers being put back on the ranks. Nexon, hackers should get a perma ban not a temp ban. The fact that you allow them to get off without losing anything is incredibly irritating. You ban for 2 weeks or whatever and then what? They still have their levels, they still have the money they gained and they're going to just keep cheating, only be a tiny bit more careful about it. How do I know? I've seen this happen so many times already and it ALWAYS happens.

    Edit: Neo there have been hackers who have been put on the ranks after serving a ban for hacking. Even if it states things in their policy it doesn't mean they are actually happening. I have proof too which unfortunately I cannot post on these forums since we have a stupid no naming and shaming rule.
  • genji123genji123
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    edited February 2017
    I don't know why people care so much about the policy. Selling or buying NX or items is against the rules but it's rampant, this is the same company has been caught in the past plagiarizing Orange Mushroom's updates, and there is an abundant amount of evidence on reddit where GMs are inconsistent with how they handle reports.
    PirateIzzy
  • forumsareannoyingforumsareannoying
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    edited February 2017

    This may come off as harsh, I don't mean it that way - I just don't like being lied to.

    Please be careful addressing him, we don't want this thread to be closed. Nexon does what they are supposed to do just when they need to. So I'm sure they will get around to banning these hackers and making it a permanent thing
    bumbertyr
  • NeospectorNeospector
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    edited February 2017
    I don't need you to quote me a policy.
    We (see person above) and most likely see Reddit, and other posts (Given, most/some have been deleted) and we are saying while it might be policy and while should be enforced, it clearly is not. It hasn't been in a long time, and you are providing incorrect information by going against what multiple have reported (and if you play this game, you also). Quote official legalize all you'd like, it doesn't change the ACTUAL response that the company you represent is providing.

    Now to address your response specifically, I didn't say it wasn't policy, I said it isn't the response that is being enforced. People joke about how easy it is to get things reverse by simply emailing or talking to live chat. I'd look into the policy on getting these bans reverse? Maybe you'd like to quote that here (Insert your link here at your leisure).

    This may come off as harsh, I don't mean it that way - I just don't like being lied to.

    People also talk about how they've been banned for absolutely no reason and cannot get unbanned, regardless of how often they talk with support. For example.

    You're not being lied to. That is the policy. Again, I can't vouch for personal experience, but it's just that, personal experience. I've never heard of people joking how easy it is to get a ban reversed, in fact I've heard the exact opposite; people have been blocked from Live Chat for trying to appeal their ban multiple times.
    Please be careful addressing him, we don't want this thread to be closed. Nexon does what they are supposed to do just when they need to. So I'm sure they will get around to banning these hackers and making it a permanent thing

    I will not lock a thread unless it violates the rules and I have never locked a thread unless it has violated the rules. Recently you have taken to extremely sarcastic responses, which treat us mods like we're stupid. Stop it.
  • Its2Sharp4UIts2Sharp4U
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    edited February 2017
    Neospector wrote: »
    You're not being lied to. That is the policy. Again, I can't vouch for personal experience, but it's just that, personal experience. I've never heard of people joking how easy it is to get a ban reversed, in fact I've heard the exact opposite; people have been blocked from Live Chat for trying to appeal their ban multiple times.
    I can support your statement from personal experience.

    I've attempted to help one of my friends get a "ranking ban" reversed several times with fail. The punishment has been justified as of the ban and it still has been justified a year later after the incident.

    If it was really that easy to get unbanned regardless of the duration, then why is there such difficulty to reverse a ranking ban? It doesn't add up. It can't be both.
    Neospector
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited February 2017
    I don't think anyone here is questioning the policy itself necessarily. We may disagree with the duration of bans being given out but that isn't something nailed down.

    We're all definitely upset that the policy is not being followed and we have many examples but of course we can't post about it directly for fear of shaming hackers. You know because it's so important to protect the integrity of cheaters.
  • PlaySpencerPlaySpencer
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    edited February 2017
    Be careful the "outsource forum moderators" can change your replies if they don't agree with them. As for the botters, Yea its bad. anything heard otherwise are "Alternative facts"
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited February 2017
    Neospector wrote: »
    You're not being lied to. That is the policy. Again, I can't vouch for personal experience, but it's just that, personal experience. I've never heard of people joking how easy it is to get a ban reversed, in fact I've heard the exact opposite; people have been blocked from Live Chat for trying to appeal their ban multiple times.
    I can support your statement from personal experience.

    I've attempted to help one of my friends get a "ranking ban" reversed several times with fail. The punishment has been justified as of the ban and it still has been justified a year later after the incident.

    If it was really that easy to get unbanned regardless of the duration, then why is there such difficulty to reverse a ranking ban? It doesn't add up. It can't be both.

    Of course it can be both. Failure doesn't have to occur in the same way every time.
    Isn't that what people are complaining about? Nexon seems to somehow manage to ban legits and ignore their appeals, while at the same time letting hackers and botters go on unmolested and get unbanned even if they do get caught.

    We know they ban legits and refuse to listen to their appeals by the fact that KThxBaiNao helped many people who came crying on reddit saying they were falsely banned and the GMs stonewalled them. KThxBaiNao claimed that all he did in those cases was ask someone to "look at this again." He didn't automatically unban anyone (not that he had the power to), and in some cases the second look still showed clear evidence of the player with their hands in the cookie jar. But in some cases, when someone actually looked at whatever "evidence" the banning GM had, it turned out to be nothing at all, and the person was unbanned. But, I reiterate, until KThxBaiNao intervened, all ticket and live-chat GMs told the player "we checked and your ban stands."
    According to KThxBaiNao in at least once case he was asked about, with the tools at ordinary GMs' disposal, the person did look guilty. It is only with special tools that Senior GM's can access, that their innocence could be established. I guess that clears the ordinary GM's from accusations of "lazy" and "lying", but it does mean we need to have a better way of getting to that higher court of appeals. Relying on the CM to do it is .. messy.

    And we know they fail to ban cheaters because, well, we play the game. We see the same hackers and botters climbing the ranks for weeks and months, despite repeated reports. And, as people have written in this thread, cheaters are being reinstated on ranks after disappearing for a while.

    It obviously isn't the policy, but the policy is equally obviously not being upheld. I'd speculate as to why, but I'd rather not get warned again.
    JushiroNetJulyIvangoldPirateIzzyLilyflowerMambicZeldaOfHyruleKat27NakazatoJLTubaand 2 others.
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited February 2017
    I don't think I could possibly agree more strongly with AKradian
  • Its2Sharp4UIts2Sharp4U
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    edited February 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    And we know they fail to ban cheaters because, well, we play the game. We see the same hackers and botters climbing the ranks for weeks and months, despite repeated reports. And, as people have written in this thread, cheaters are being reinstated on ranks after disappearing for a while.

    It obviously isn't the policy, but the policy is equally obviously not being upheld. I'd speculate as to why, but I'd rather not get warned again.

    It doesn't make any sense to have temporary bans and a permanent ranking removal if several people are able to get the ranking removal reversed. If anything it should be temporary ranking removal up to 6 months (according to the information I got for how long "temporary" can stain your record) and permanent if you're permanently banned. I could continue on but that's a different topic altogether.

    On another topic from "failing to ban cheaters", they're "failing to patch hacks". Blaze Wizards, Kinesis, and Blasters had "Full Map Attack" hacks for quite awhile now. If they got permanently patched that would hinder the cheating process if not discourage hacking altogether.

    There have been certain number of hacks that have probably been here for years but remain to be used daily by these cheaters.

    It's not just Customer Support who has to step up their game towards banning the real cheaters and unbanning legitimate players.

    It's the Game Team as well who has to step up their game putting these hacks out of their very existence.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited February 2017
    While I agree that the hacks need to be blocked (and Nexon is always way too slow about that, whenever the hackers shift to a new favorite class), but even simple botters who just run a looped set of normal commands through their programmable keyboard, are not banned. People are botting (and sometimes hacking) in Arcane River on their mains. Banning them, even without patching the hacks, would greatly discourage others from doing the same. It's one thing to lose a meso bot (or a dozen) and create another in a minute with a script. It's quite another to lose your main account that you've invested a lot of time and money into. People would not be cheating so blatantly on those accounts if they thought there was a realistic risk of getting perma-banned.
    LordRed
  • ShippouShippou
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    edited February 2017
    Nexon wouldn't have people doubting their policy if they'd get on the ball and just start throwing out perma bans for obvious bots.
    There is a guy or group of people in Broa/Khaini making blaster bots with max damage hacks impersonating other players in the server and other guilds. I've reported them numerous times. The same ones, and over a week and they're still in the same map. They even have obvious tradeable drop gear on and lucid-kill medals.

    If Nexon doesn't get on this soon, the economy is going to be thrown out of whack irreversibly. It's just going to be a few weeks until we see botted-for arcane gear on the market. Nodestones are already plummetting in price and there's tons and tons of stacks of them. And nexon's way of "fixing" the nodestone issue at least, seems to be lowering the drop rate of them without even telling us. Now the only way to get them in substantial amounts is to rely on bots, making the problem worse.

    Please just dedicate someone to cc through DWT and arcane river and banhammer these guys. They are acting with impunity as-is.

    @Its2Sharp4U
    That's not always possible. It can be very difficult to block the hacks while not inadvertently making it impossible to play legit. This is because a lot of these hacks skirt around the game's hack detection through loopholes that are meant to prevent legit players from being falsely detected. Think about it. Have you ever been lagging and gotten the "You have been disconnected by the GM Police for the HACK reason" message? They give some wiggle room in the hack detection to prevent players setting it off from lag and whatnot.
    Patching hacks is ironically the temporary solution. Ban enforcement is the longer-term solution. When botting becomes too risky because of a more prevalent enforcement policy, you'll see much less of it. But hackers will always find a way around the hack detection programs.
    LordRed
  • Its2Sharp4UIts2Sharp4U
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    edited February 2017
    LittleTLK wrote: »
    @Its2Sharp4U
    That's not always possible. It can be very difficult to block the hacks while not inadvertently making it impossible to play legit. This is because a lot of these hacks skirt around the game's hack detection through loopholes that are meant to prevent legit players from being falsely detected. Think about it. Have you ever been lagging and gotten the "You have been disconnected by the GM Police for the HACK reason" message? They give some wiggle room in the hack detection to prevent players setting it off from lag and whatnot.
    Patching hacks is ironically the temporary solution. Ban enforcement is the longer-term solution. When botting becomes too risky because of a more prevalent enforcement policy, you'll see much less of it. But hackers will always find a way around the hack detection programs.

    That's what I call "band-aid solutions" to a problem. When I mean "patching" them, I literally mean change it's ways so it can no longer be exploited due to it having lesser to no flaws. It means by changing up the works of the mechanic so it can't be tampered with.

    There's quite a difference between literally unable to use it anymore versus someone getting booted for some flawed hack detection. I'll agree with you that it does more harm than good.
  • IvangoldIvangold
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    edited February 2017
    LittleTLK wrote: »
    @Its2Sharp4U
    That's not always possible. It can be very difficult to block the hacks while not inadvertently making it impossible to play legit. This is because a lot of these hacks skirt around the game's hack detection through loopholes that are meant to prevent legit players from being falsely detected. Think about it. Have you ever been lagging and gotten the "You have been disconnected by the GM Police for the HACK reason" message? They give some wiggle room in the hack detection to prevent players setting it off from lag and whatnot.
    Patching hacks is ironically the temporary solution. Ban enforcement is the longer-term solution. When botting becomes too risky because of a more prevalent enforcement policy, you'll see much less of it. But hackers will always find a way around the hack detection programs.

    That's what I call "band-aid solutions" to a problem. When I mean "patching" them, I literally mean change it's ways so it can no longer be exploited due to it having lesser to no flaws. It means by changing up the works of the mechanic so it can't be tampered with.

    There's quite a difference between literally unable to use it anymore versus someone getting booted for some flawed hack detection. I'll agree with you that it does more harm than good.

    Sad thing is, if they can't make the game instable for everyone, how can we see a good programed program that block hacks and it's harder to bypass.
  • PeepPeep
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    edited February 2017
    LittleTLK wrote: »
    snip

    Yeah it's very worrying. There are a number of people on my server who are hackers that have the medal you get from killing lucid and they aren't in any guild or anything. It's obvious use of damage hacks. People hacking in dojo is obvious enough already and they always seem to get away with it. Nexon doesn't seem to know what they are doing or simply don't care.

    They should always have focused on keeping their player base legit over banning gold farmers that come back in a few mins. So many hacking on their mains at Arcane river. As I type this yet anouther botter hit 250 today due to your incompetence Nexon. They were also reported 2-3 months ago. You've had so much time to resolve this issue and haven't. That makes over 10+ hackers/botters you have allowed to hit 250 since the V update. That's not even counting other servers!!!

    Pathetic!!!

  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited February 2017
    Honestly, banning meso farming botters is only a bandaid solution, as there will always be another one to take its place. Instead, Nexon should block the hack (and not accidentally unblock it within the next maintenance). As for people who bot on their mains, I have no qualms against banning them.
  • forumsareannoyingforumsareannoying
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    edited February 2017
    Neospector wrote: »

    I will not lock a thread unless it violates the rules and I have never locked a thread unless it has violated the rules. Recently you have taken to extremely sarcastic responses, which treat us mods like we're stupid. Stop it.

    I don't get your deal. I stopped bashing Nexon and now you still complain about what I post. All I did was warn the guy so this thread doesn't get closed. And I have been posting positive things as well. If you think they are sarcastic, then that's YOUR problem not mine. Geez....
    JettLuvsULilyflowerMambicZeldaOfHyruleVekiloNakazatoJLLordRed
  • NeospectorNeospector
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    edited February 2017

    I don't get your deal. I stopped bashing Nexon and now you still complain about what I post. All I did was warn the guy so this thread doesn't get closed. And I have been posting positive things as well. If you think they are sarcastic, then that's YOUR problem not mine. Geez....

    No, they're sarcastic and they're pretty clearly sarcastic. A warning was not needed. In particular, a warning was not needed to "be careful in addressing" me, because addressing me is not what's going to get a thread locked.
    You want to argue that it's not sarcasm? Fine by you, but no; that's sarcasm no matter how you cut it.
    And this is what I mean by treating moderators like they're stupid. You're trying to pin the blame on us or me in particular rather than the rule violations that have been shown.

    Now stop derailing this thread with arguments, if you please. Things were just getting back into a more civil discussion.
  • forumsareannoyingforumsareannoying
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    edited February 2017
    Neospector wrote: »

    No, they're sarcastic and they're pretty clearly sarcastic. A warning was not needed. In particular, a warning was not needed to "be careful in addressing" me, because addressing me is not what's going to get a thread locked.
    You want to argue that it's not sarcasm? Fine by you, but no; that's sarcasm no matter how you cut it.
    And this is what I mean by treating moderators like they're stupid. You're trying to pin the blame on us or me in particular rather than the rule violations that have been shown.

    Now stop derailing this thread with arguments, if you please. Things were just getting back into a more civil discussion.

    Aside from the 'warning', all I said was
    "Nexon does what they are supposed to do just when they need to. So I'm sure they will get around to banning these hackers and making it a permanent thing"

    Not sure how that's derailing the thread, if anything it's just a supportive comment to ease people's concerns. It sucks that there isn't a weekly posting of the banned people like there used to be(perhaps you should suggest Nexon to bring that back?)

    And what is sarcasm? Your link is broken.

    Anyways, I could just send you a message with every post I'm about to make, just to make sure it's ok for the forums.



    JettLuvsULilyflowerZeldaOfHyruleVekiloNakazatoJLLordRed
  • bumbertyrbumbertyr
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    Nexon
    edited February 2017
    Neospector wrote: »


    Not sure how that's derailing the thread, if anything it's just a supportive comment to ease people's concerns. It sucks that there isn't a weekly posting of the banned people like there used to be(perhaps you should suggest Nexon to bring that back?)

    those will more than likely come back whenever we get a full time CM again.