It's possible that Nexon has changed its policy in 4 months. But it's a lot more likely that they still haven't figured out a way to get around the character limit, and decided to just post the totals so they can have something to point to when saying "we ban thousands of hackers every week."
Our team was open towards creating multiple posts due to the character limit to list the names of all the hackers.
However, as stated in the original post, our policy change prevents us from releasing the names of all the characters that were banned to the public.
Can you explain this new policy? How does it benefit the game, the community, or the company, to keep the character names secret?
I like the idea of a world breakdown. It seems Luna doesn't really have any GM's patrolling at all and it would be nice to know if that is true or not.
Unlike EMS, GMS does not have visible GMs anywhere. I've been playing nearly 9 years now, nearly every day, and have never encountered a GM "in the wild" (i.e., not a pre-announced GM event). And we have always had meso-selling bots spamming. So I don't think Luna is any worse off than the NA servers.
But yes, a breakdown by world would still be nice to have.
Our hacker problem was never this bad until we migrated.
Currently looking for a mp3 map and they are all full of hackers.
Can you explain this new policy? How does it benefit the game, the community, or the company, to keep the character names secret?
just to say an example acording to the previous CM am banned permanently in one of the lists he posted
yet am not the first or last that did not do anything agaisnt the rules in game and never got removed from such lists
it could also be lazyness cause most names of people that its hacking/botting its always some random thing like "sadadsasd" or "jhgjkgjgj"
Can you explain this new policy? How does it benefit the game, the community, or the company, to keep the character names secret?
just to say an example acording to the previous CM am banned permanently in one of the lists he posted
yet am not the first or last that did not do anything agaisnt the rules in game and never got removed from such lists
it could also be lazyness cause most names of people that its hacking/botting its always some random thing like "sadadsasd" or "jhgjkgjgj"
If you're saying the list is inaccurate - well, that means the total count they posted is incorrect as well.
As for "laziness" - the list is generated by computer, from the GM's "ban" action. Nobody was ever typing all those names in.
Even if we don't get the names it would be nice to get a class/level/world breakdown. It would probably take some spreadsheet magic but I imagine its doable.
I also would really like to see a breakdown by world, there so many hackers since migration in Luna not getting banned it's out of proportion and they have infected the economy in a very bad way.
Also there is a certain advertiser who smega's everyday and still walking around. This person has been reported by many players and still walks around, making me wonder if they ever patrol on Luna at all, which most of us doubt as long this person is still smega-ing everyday selling its mesos.
@AlexF : this is your field of work and study, and you can't even spell "counsel"? OK. I yield to your expertise.
@Akradian
First, let's define council:
"a body of persons specially designated or selected to act in an advisory, administrative, or legislative capacity"
Now let's define advisory:
"adjective
1.of, giving, or containing advice
2. having the power or duty to advise : an advisory council.
Now let's define counsel:
3. Law. (used with a singular or plural verb) the advocate or advocates engaged in the direction of a cause in court; a legal adviser or counselor:
The use of my English word Council is correct since as you can see both of them are used differently depending on the situation. I'm not a Lawyer, hence I am not a counselor. I have a degree in business management and have studied privacy ethics. I could not be counsel but can give advice as part of a council. I used the word not because I didn't know how to spell - but rather because I meant it in that context.
Isn't this the lowest form of hate people take on the internet, attacking somebody grammar? I didn't try to insult you, I'm not sure why you had to.
While I understand that you want to be quick to jump on everything, my point was that it was a smart move for them not to - and any council would advise the same. I would advise my clients to not publish any likeness of a name of somebody without their explicit consent to do so. It's just bad business.
Why "any council" rather than "any advisor" or "any consultant"? Why would anybody be talking to a council about privacy policies? A board, maybe, or a team of consultants, possibly, but I have never heard such teams referred to as a "council".
No, it's pretty obvious that you meant to write "counsel" here, especially since you were not referring specifically to yourself. You said "any council". Besides, you might not be a lawyer, but you also aren't a council. You're one person.
As for grammar: I don't normally comment on people's spelling or grammar, but when someone misspells a word that is central to their purported field of expertise, it puts just a little bit of doubt in my mind. When, after being alerted to the misspelling, they go on to confuse that word with a similar word that has a different meaning (counsel and counselor), well, it certainly makes me go "hmm....".
As for insults: You started it, with the "I understand that you want to be quick to jump on everything."
Now I think we have derailed this thread enough.
I am still waiting for Arwoo to explain the new policy.
It's possible that Nexon has changed its policy in 4 months. But it's a lot more likely that they still haven't figured out a way to get around the character limit, and decided to just post the totals so they can have something to point to when saying "we ban thousands of hackers every week."
Our team was open towards creating multiple posts due to the character limit to list the names of all the hackers.
However, as stated in the original post, our policy change prevents us from releasing the names of all the characters that were banned to the public.
Can you explain this new policy? How does it benefit the game, the community, or the company, to keep the character names secret?
Nexon has indeed changed their policy regarding this (it's not just for MapleStory).
Basically, bans are now between the affected player and Nexon only and not for the public to see. What happens to the player is also none of your business after you report someone.
The reason why is because as a player it's not your duty to hunt the players you reported.
oh yeah? You guys banned that many hackers? Yet you guys didn't do ANYTHING to the damage hacked accounts, Monolith exploited accounts, Stromdriver accounts? Like whats the point in playing this game if all you guys do is catch "botters" and let the exploiters get away with everything. Like you're gonna see people with 40mill range in reboot with like 600% bonus damage and monolith, gm dragon roar, stormdriver ( a move that does 10bill dmg). Also people were able to transfer the reboot mesos/ dmg/ exp rate buff to regular servers like scania, etc soo now guess what, economy is getting screwed up as long as you NEXON don't do crap about this issue. You guys literally let this slide under the radar and gave no consequences. Here is a gif of what the stormdriver and monolith hacker is doing at daimien REBOOT -Removed-
@AlexF Assuming someone was permanently banned for hacking, I don't think that person should have a say in whether it is wrong or illegal for Nexon to post their ign. In fact, I believe Nexon could and SHOULD update the ToS so that when someone gets banned, they forfeit any right to possibly sue them. That's assuming anyone would actually waste their time even trying. That way, we the community get a detailed list of the hackers that get banned, Nexon doesn't need to worry about being sued(because that's a big concern for them /end sarcasm), and maple becomes .001% better.
Also, I'd like to reiterate some things others have already said.... Although it's nice to have a list saying "6,666 pplz waz banned for guds", what do we gain from this?
-we don't know how many accounts were banned, so it could actually be like... 2,000 people
-we don't know what worlds(Scania, window, Luna, etc). For all we know, 90% of those could be from Reboot. From what I've heard, Nexon sent the bulk of GM patrols to Reboot rather than the main servers... just a rumor but like I said, no way to know
-we don't know if the hacker we reported got banned or spooked and ran away
-we don't know which igns are permanently gone forever(some people may not appreciate this, but a few months/years down the road all new characters will be xxnarutofan420xx
- we don't know what classes they are.
And you know what the sad thing is? Not only will a detailed list help the community(and help Nexon be more transparent like OneLetter claims they want to try to maybe in the foreseeable future attempt to begin to implement and consider doing -.-), but it will also help Nexon track and take action against certain ... statistics. Meaning, if the bulk of the characters banned were Blaze Wizards around lv 180, then by using logic and common sense, one can assume those hackers are probably hacking in a map that can still spawn elites or drop mesos. So that means that GMs should re-format their patrols and have a heavier presence in maps that are 10-20 levels above/below lv 180.
"But that's A LOT of maps to have to go through... blahblahblah". We've already told Nexon the maps where hackers hack the most. They simply choose not to do anything about it. Or choose not to do enough. But that's enough of that.
Honestly I'd rather not see a list. And maybe I am ungrateful so hate on me all you want. But I've been around long enough to know that things like this either get half-assed or done inaccurately. And providing such little detail only makes it a smokescreen to hide behind..... legal issues. Pls. Since when have they cared about that.
And you know what the sad thing is? Not only will a detailed list help the community(and help Nexon be more transparent like OneLetter claims they want to try to maybe in the foreseeable future attempt to begin to implement and consider doing -.-), but it will also help Nexon track and take action against certain ... statistics. Meaning, if the bulk of the characters banned were Blaze Wizards around lv 180, then by using logic and common sense, one can assume those hackers are probably hacking in a map that can still spawn elites or drop mesos. So that means that GMs should re-format their patrols and have a heavier presence in maps that are 10-20 levels above/below lv 180.
On the contrary. If there are a lot of level 180 BW's getting banned, that means the GMs are already patrolling the maps they frequent.
The question would be: where did all these BW's train before they got to 180? Maybe GMs need to find the level 150 or 120 maps these bots came from?
And you know what the sad thing is? Not only will a detailed list help the community(and help Nexon be more transparent like OneLetter claims they want to try to maybe in the foreseeable future attempt to begin to implement and consider doing -.-), but it will also help Nexon track and take action against certain ... statistics. Meaning, if the bulk of the characters banned were Blaze Wizards around lv 180, then by using logic and common sense, one can assume those hackers are probably hacking in a map that can still spawn elites or drop mesos. So that means that GMs should re-format their patrols and have a heavier presence in maps that are 10-20 levels above/below lv 180.
On the contrary. If there are a lot of level 180 BW's getting banned, that means the GMs are already patrolling the maps they frequent.
The question would be: where did all these BW's train before they got to 180? Maybe GMs need to find the level 150 or 120 maps these bots came from?
We can summarize the map that they use with 1 word: Pianus.
That one doesn't need to be patrolled. It needs to be patched.
I see all these numbers about hackers being banned yet when I log on to my game I see one on almost all maps I go to. It's really frustrating playing the game when these hackers are killing everything in the map. And no, don't tell me I should report them because I have and there is only an x amount of times i can report a day. There is no way I would be able to report all those hackers in all those maps on all those channels. 6000+ seems like a large number but in reality it's not. Someone should relay the message to Nexon and get it to their heads. If there are that many hackers in the game daily, on almost every single map, it means that hackers can easily infiltrate the system no problem. I have never seen so many hackers on Maplestory before until lately after coming back from a long break. So does that mean that Nexon has downgraded it's system's protection system. It's either that, or someone is slacking.
Arwoo, is keyjamming Keyboard button considered as botting? Why Nexon doesn't make a clear ToS / Rules regarding this. Example jamming keyboard key on kanna for kishin or For HS on bishop. I have been searching and all i can find is the rules on maplesea stating. Offences under botting include:
-Jamming of Key without human interaction. Though i don't know if that is apply to GMS. What arise my curiosity is because around 2-3 years ago, maplestory have made all character cannot simply just stand in 1 spot and spamming 1 key because after hundreds or a thousand, the char will freeze or cannot attacking until it move again. But now, it seems that you doesn't apply that on certain skills such as Kanna 's kishin. And several class also can attack nonstop. Does this implies that Keyjamming on certain char or lets say Kanna's kishin are allowed? Why not putting a clear ToS regarding Keyjamming like maplesea?
Engage in using macros (i.e., "macroing"), auto-looting or robot play (i.e., "booting") or any other behavior that allows you (or any character you are controlling) to automatically function or effect any action in a game with or without your presence;
So, keyjamming or keyweighting is NOT allowed, since it makes your character function in Maplestory without your presence.
The fact that the anti-cheat 100-attack limit doesn't work with certain skills doesn't mean they are permitted to bot, just as having an unlocked door in your house doesn't mean taking your stuff is legal. Carelessness =/= permission.
I like seeing that hackers are being banned
There are some great suggestions here for more things that could be added to give us more details about the banned hackers if IGNs can't be provided. I like the suggestion of adding in how many accounts were banned vs characters, number of banned based on player reports received, and a breakdown of banned characters per world. Personally, I'd be encouraged to report more hackers if I knew that my reports were being used, and that there were GMs in my world banning (since like someone else posted - GMs are barely visible)
Hackers arise because there is dollars include in it. When people start buying illegal mesos, they support hackers. More demands that makes it worse. That is why hack becomes more intense. So well, i can say, people who buy illegal mesos itself is a hacker, coz they buy directly from hackers. But it is hard to ban players or to prove who has bought illegal mesos. As only community who can give presssure so that the players doesn't buy illegal mesos.
Comments
Can you explain this new policy? How does it benefit the game, the community, or the company, to keep the character names secret?
Our hacker problem was never this bad until we migrated.
Currently looking for a mp3 map and they are all full of hackers.
just to say an example acording to the previous CM am banned permanently in one of the lists he posted
yet am not the first or last that did not do anything agaisnt the rules in game and never got removed from such lists
it could also be lazyness cause most names of people that its hacking/botting its always some random thing like "sadadsasd" or "jhgjkgjgj"
If you're saying the list is inaccurate - well, that means the total count they posted is incorrect as well.
As for "laziness" - the list is generated by computer, from the GM's "ban" action. Nobody was ever typing all those names in.
Also there is a certain advertiser who smega's everyday and still walking around. This person has been reported by many players and still walks around, making me wonder if they ever patrol on Luna at all, which most of us doubt as long this person is still smega-ing everyday selling its mesos.
You wrote:
Why "any council" rather than "any advisor" or "any consultant"? Why would anybody be talking to a council about privacy policies? A board, maybe, or a team of consultants, possibly, but I have never heard such teams referred to as a "council".
No, it's pretty obvious that you meant to write "counsel" here, especially since you were not referring specifically to yourself. You said "any council". Besides, you might not be a lawyer, but you also aren't a council. You're one person.
As for grammar: I don't normally comment on people's spelling or grammar, but when someone misspells a word that is central to their purported field of expertise, it puts just a little bit of doubt in my mind. When, after being alerted to the misspelling, they go on to confuse that word with a similar word that has a different meaning (counsel and counselor), well, it certainly makes me go "hmm....".
As for insults: You started it, with the "I understand that you want to be quick to jump on everything."
Now I think we have derailed this thread enough.
I am still waiting for Arwoo to explain the new policy.
Nexon has indeed changed their policy regarding this (it's not just for MapleStory).
Basically, bans are now between the affected player and Nexon only and not for the public to see. What happens to the player is also none of your business after you report someone.
The reason why is because as a player it's not your duty to hunt the players you reported.
@AlexF Assuming someone was permanently banned for hacking, I don't think that person should have a say in whether it is wrong or illegal for Nexon to post their ign. In fact, I believe Nexon could and SHOULD update the ToS so that when someone gets banned, they forfeit any right to possibly sue them. That's assuming anyone would actually waste their time even trying. That way, we the community get a detailed list of the hackers that get banned, Nexon doesn't need to worry about being sued(because that's a big concern for them /end sarcasm), and maple becomes .001% better.
Also, I'd like to reiterate some things others have already said.... Although it's nice to have a list saying "6,666 pplz waz banned for guds", what do we gain from this?
-we don't know how many accounts were banned, so it could actually be like... 2,000 people
-we don't know what worlds(Scania, window, Luna, etc). For all we know, 90% of those could be from Reboot. From what I've heard, Nexon sent the bulk of GM patrols to Reboot rather than the main servers... just a rumor but like I said, no way to know
-we don't know if the hacker we reported got banned or spooked and ran away
-we don't know which igns are permanently gone forever(some people may not appreciate this, but a few months/years down the road all new characters will be xxnarutofan420xx
- we don't know what classes they are.
And you know what the sad thing is? Not only will a detailed list help the community(and help Nexon be more transparent like OneLetter claims they want to try to maybe in the foreseeable future attempt to begin to implement and consider doing -.-), but it will also help Nexon track and take action against certain ... statistics. Meaning, if the bulk of the characters banned were Blaze Wizards around lv 180, then by using logic and common sense, one can assume those hackers are probably hacking in a map that can still spawn elites or drop mesos. So that means that GMs should re-format their patrols and have a heavier presence in maps that are 10-20 levels above/below lv 180.
"But that's A LOT of maps to have to go through... blahblahblah". We've already told Nexon the maps where hackers hack the most. They simply choose not to do anything about it. Or choose not to do enough. But that's enough of that.
Honestly I'd rather not see a list. And maybe I am ungrateful so hate on me all you want. But I've been around long enough to know that things like this either get half-assed or done inaccurately. And providing such little detail only makes it a smokescreen to hide behind..... legal issues. Pls. Since when have they cared about that.
On the contrary. If there are a lot of level 180 BW's getting banned, that means the GMs are already patrolling the maps they frequent.
The question would be: where did all these BW's train before they got to 180? Maybe GMs need to find the level 150 or 120 maps these bots came from?
That one doesn't need to be patrolled. It needs to be patched.
that exploit has been around for y e a r s. it absolutely must be patched. It should have been patched.
-Jamming of Key without human interaction. Though i don't know if that is apply to GMS. What arise my curiosity is because around 2-3 years ago, maplestory have made all character cannot simply just stand in 1 spot and spamming 1 key because after hundreds or a thousand, the char will freeze or cannot attacking until it move again. But now, it seems that you doesn't apply that on certain skills such as Kanna 's kishin. And several class also can attack nonstop. Does this implies that Keyjamming on certain char or lets say Kanna's kishin are allowed? Why not putting a clear ToS regarding Keyjamming like maplesea?
So, keyjamming or keyweighting is NOT allowed, since it makes your character function in Maplestory without your presence.
The fact that the anti-cheat 100-attack limit doesn't work with certain skills doesn't mean they are permitted to bot, just as having an unlocked door in your house doesn't mean taking your stuff is legal. Carelessness =/= permission.
There are some great suggestions here for more things that could be added to give us more details about the banned hackers if IGNs can't be provided. I like the suggestion of adding in how many accounts were banned vs characters, number of banned based on player reports received, and a breakdown of banned characters per world. Personally, I'd be encouraged to report more hackers if I knew that my reports were being used, and that there were GMs in my world banning (since like someone else posted - GMs are barely visible)