@Daxi.:Basically players, or me, can't read. It is the client who read it for us. But i don't know fi that is what you meant.
If you, as a player, are able to open your quest log and read what the quest is telling you to do then the cheaters are able to automatically do the same and automate the process of getting new quests/completing them.
@Daxterbeer.
Hmm Yeah, I also somehow seen less Blazewizard hacker around.
@Catalooo,
Yes I am trying to deflect opinions who claimed that it is a fact without i know how expert they are in this field. I just believe that in programming everyone's expertise is different. Or does my understanding is wrong? Is programming something that is so easy to learn so that everyone can learn its ins and out and it is laid bare out there just for everyone to grab and can become expert in this field without enough experience and knowledge? is everyone knowledge regarding hacking and ways to prevent it is the same?
That is why I'm not criticising on any suggestions on this post that give a possible solutions, ideas or something that is in-depth of solution because i am not the expert in this field. I am not critising you on any of your solutions or reccomendations to prevent hacker because i don't have the ability to judge that. But I am critisizing more to people who simply say "no/impossible" which indicates to me that they are trying to say that they are at least amongst the smartest / the top expert programmer in this whole world and they know everything ins and out about programming and anti-hacking solutions and what they are saying will never be wrong.
Simply because they believe that they are at the top amongst the top expert in programming or regarding hacking prevention somehow made me curious too. At least that is how i feel from their comments. That was also why i tried to confirm how expert and experience they are regarding this field that makes them so confident that there are no ways to prevent hacker. If they are expert enough, so yes, i can take their words as a fact.
Or probably my thinking is wrong. Probably anyone can easily become expert in this field. No need expertise at all to become an expert programmer. It is very easy to learn like playing cards. After you learn a bit about it, you know everything about it . Even someone with average knowledge will be considered expert in programming or in anti-hacking field and can have enough knowledge and all their words can be considered truth/fact and never be wrong. At least that is what i get from your comment.
But on this, i can't comment much coz i don't understand how the expertise in programming works. I can just guesses. But i will take that into mind. What was in my mind was that it works similar to how doctor expertise works. Different Doctor might have different diagnoses and have different medications on the same patient. Coz i had once a friend who had 3 doctors who diagnose differently and in the end he went to Singapore and follow the instruction from the Doctor in Singapore because he believed they are more expert in the field. Probably it doesn't work the similar way. Probably there is no such expertise in programming or anti hacking case. And no, i won't learn about programming, it is not my field. I am far away from it. All i can do is contribute what i can do the maplestory community. I will let Nexon/maplestory programmer /anti hacking team do their Job. I just give them ideas.
Well another ideas, Hacker mostlikely are using programs/advanced programs to hack. Can maplestory somehow put In Term of Service that players agree that maplestory program are allowed to force close any suspected program especially on the background that can be used as hacking tools? Hacking tools can actually be considered as tools that modify Maplestory Client (which is Maplestory Property) without permission. So this is to prevent any hacking happening. And so also maplestory advise to players to close any other program when playing maplestory to prevent any data losses because maplestory will not responsible for any data losses if players is opening another program while playing maplestory. You can also put this notice everytime players start the game, to close any other program as maplestory will force close any programs suspected to be used as hacking tools and will not responsible for any data losses.
Well another ideas, Hacker mostlikely are using programs/advanced programs to hack. Can maplestory somehow put In Term of Service that players agree that maplestory program are allowed to force close any suspected program especially on the background that can be used as hacking tools? Hacking tools can actually be considered as tools that modify Maplestory Client (which is Maplestory Property) without permission. So this is to prevent any hacking happening. And so also maplestory advise to players to close any other program when playing maplestory to prevent any data losses because maplestory will not responsible for any data losses if players is opening another program while playing maplestory.
Do you realize how many people that would push away...I've had Nexon detect "suspicious" programs when all I have is an anti virus and Maple. Heck, some hacks are INTERNAL to the game...as in direct editting of the files through magical hack powers...unfortunately it says in the ToS that Hacking isnt allowed...it really won't make a difference if people follow it or not. Most games have some form of hackers, but how they moderate is what seems to make the difference. If you look on FFXIV (game I play quite frequently) there are gold bots just like Maple or most other MMOs...but there aren't a lot, because they actively go out and ban the hell out of them. They even have a priority report for "Gold/Real Money Trade" and bots usually get banned in a day or two (you can tell because their name will dissappear from blacklist or become "Removed") Heck, we the players can kill the bots in certain areas...
Yes I am trying to deflect opinions who claimed that it is a fact without i know how expert they are in this field.
But I am critisizing more to people who simply say "no/impossible" which indicates to me that they are trying to say that they are at least amongst the smartest / the top expert programmer in this whole world and they know everything ins and out about programming and anti-hacking solutions and what they are saying will never be wrong.
Simply because they believe that they are at the top amongst the top expert in programming or regarding hacking prevention somehow made me curious too. At least that is how i feel from their comments. That was also why i tried to confirm how expert and experience they are regarding this field that makes them so confident that there are no ways to prevent hacker. If they are expert enough, so yes, i can take their words as a fact.
So you think that just because someone disagrees with you, that they are intentionally expressing that they believe they are experts? That is completely and baselessly assumptuous. You think that what you suggest is absolutely possible and that it there is no chance for it to be impossible and therefore any attempt to argue so is automatically wrong? That is beyond arrogant, especially how you think you are completely unquestionable by anyone not deemed "expert" enough.
You even admit to "deflecting opinions" just because "they're not an expert." Completely shameless.
Or probably my thinking is wrong. And no, i won't learn about programming, it is not my field. I am far away from it. All i can do is contribute what i can do the maplestory community. I will let Nexon/maplestory programmer /anti hacking team do their Job. I just give them ideas.
Your thinking is wrong. Absolutely wrong. You believe you're allowed to push your ideas here without being an expert because you're "just trying to contribute", but everyone else needs several years of experience in several different MMOs and to post a whole damn resume just for you to say anything without being considered "just an opinion." You're the one that believes your opinion is absolutely impenetrable because you think you can just set the highest bar imaginable to even be allowed to comment on, let alone criticise it, and so far no one can. And you don't even follow your own rules to that. You even have @Catalooo who has experience, but you just push aside what he has to say because you don't agree with it. It's no wonder no one agrees with you. It's completely impossible to without looking just as incompetent.
But that all doesn't even matter to you. You won't even take any of what anyone has to say into consideration. You've completely abstained from constructive discussion by rejecting anything and everything you disagree with. That's not how you make a suggestion, that's how you show you're a stubborn idiot, one that believes they are always right. An absolute joke. A lost cause.
@Daxi.:Basically players, or me, can't read. It is the client who read it for us. But i don't know fi that is what you meant.
@Rolls : Because what you said doesn't even touch the skin of anything.
@Sliced :
1. About the Automation on doing quest, even though it will let their char do things aumatically, mostlikely it will act similar to players. Hackers might still gain advantages but not as bad as when they are hacking 1 map while gathering a lot of mobs in 1 spot and kill them simultaneously. But still gain benefit tho lesser.
2. Are you trying to say that actually hacker modified the game code, engine code or internal game logic? Is it possible to track players who does taking advantage/modify the game engine logic?
3. You are talking about breaching into memory. So actually hacker just simply crack maple code, memory and client?
4. Even if the Quests is made to be random of 5-10 quests, can task automation still read it?
2. & 3. When you start up a program on your computer, some data is put into the computers RAM. A hacker can then use varius tools to read and manipulate certain values and data in the program's memory, thus allowing them to exploit flaws in the game. Actual "cracking" of Maple's code isn't necessary. However, as far as I know, one can also illegitimately edit *.wz files that the game uses to store varius pieces of client side data, though I have less knowledge about that. To my understanding it's a bit like an *.ini hack or DLL injection.
4. If the task automation tool is programmed or "taught" to handle that, sure. It's not like botters can't make a table of all the quests based on the quest description.
@Cataloo
2. So maple actually need to apply Crypto Algorithms,. And apply it into their game client security so that noone can read the game client. But mostlikely it will cost them sumj.
3. So it is actually not impossible but using complex anti-piracy that possibly will slow down maplestory game
4. Hmm all in all, the main trouble itself is the game client is easily cracked, readable and exploited
5. It is still possible if Nexon separate the data which not inside the game client so that hacker cannot steal the information.
Is 4 points i write above what you are trying to say?
This issue is not really about cyber security or encryption. No one is stealing anyone's data. The problem is that there are flaws in the game that can be exploited client side. If a crypto was applied in a way that no one can read the game client, neither can you.
Also, I want to remind you that you don't need to be an expert to know this stuff. The basics of programming are actually fairly simple, and getting a moderate, surface level understanding of most things would probably take a month of studying at most. A bit in the same vain that you don't need a PhD in chemistry to know why fats aren't water-soluble, and to know the difference between an acid and a base.
@Petal Magic
if they direct modify the files through hacking isn't that means they are changing the game cleint or game files? If it means internal in game, doesn't it means they change something inside the game? Is it really hard to detect a files inside maplestory that has been modified diffrently from the original one? According to Sliced post above,, they are using tools. So there are 2 possible ways. Modifying maple's files before the game start or running tools when maplestory is running.
@Rolls. Really Rollls. Are we keep debating this again? Alright i will take the facts that you give that, anyone can be expert and the best in anti hacking solutions and can become master to prevent hacker just by studying a month in a world of programmer, even if they are someone who doesn't even have a bit of any knowledge about programming. Everyone can become anti hacker expert with just a bit of studying. Noted. I can go laugh at people who is working at anti hacking solutions / company now coz their work can be copied by someone else who have just learned for it about 1 month. Noted.
@Sliced
So there is actually an editing involve right? .wz is actually a maplestory properties. If they are manipulating maple program's memory, isn't that means they manipulate maplestory properties? Editing other people properties without permission is actually a crime. According to you, it requires tools to do it.
I was suggesting for maplestory to make their anti hacking system to detect any tools that might be used to modifiy maplestory when maplestory is running and kill those tools/ force close the tools including autmation tools. This solution is not about banning people, but about forceclose/kill those tools that also run when maplestory is also running. I believe that maplestory antihacking team has to know how the hack works before they can make prevention. So i believe they knows which tools can be used to hack. So they can create a prevention system by killing those program before or when maplestory client is running.
This is possible if those tools needed to run when maplestory is running in order to make the hack works. I say it is possible because i know some application can force close other application including windows when shutting down can force close any program that is running. So i think it is also possible for maplestory to create a prevention to force close any other programs without affecting the maplestory game client play itself. This system won't close the game client, just the other application / tools. Maplestory just need to identified those commonly used automation tools / hacking tools that might be used in order to create unallowed advantages to players and automaically force closethose program/tools, not the game client itself. Because this will not force close the game client and will not affect the players, maplestory can be strict on this and just close any tools they think might be used to hack.
So instead maplestory detecting suspicious program and ban people, they also make another system to detect suspicious program and kill /force close those program. I believe those tools/program that is used to hack should be a commonly used program/ tools. Not tools that someone actually create bythemself from scratch specially for maplestory. If that is so, there won't be so many hackers around. Not many people can create those kind of tools from scratch. i believe a lot of hackers is just using those tools that commonly. available, mostlikely free or a cheap one. In order to do this, maplestory can modifidied their Term Of Service into allowing themselves to kill/force close any other program that can be used as tools to hack / do automation.
The 2nd possible ways is that hacker actually modified maplestory files. so when they are running the maplestory program client, they don't actually need any tools anymore. Because they are already modifying / editing files so when hacker start the modified client file, the client itself will automatically hack for them. There is no need for any tools anymore. They just need to run the maplestory client files that has been modified. If this is what happened, it means the hack can be run without tools since they are already modifying the files so thta the client will automatically hack for them. If this is what happened, then maplestory need somehow to create a system that can detect when their own files has been modified before the client started. Like the client running a simple scanning on certain coding that might have been edited before the client start.. That is if detecting their own code is possible.
Can also combine both suggestions above. So if hcker modifying the files before even the client started, maplestory can prevent it by doing simple scanning on certain codes that might be exploited/edited/modified before the client start. And if the hacker running tools when or after maple starts/ running, they can create a side system that will force close/shut the hacking program/ tools down. This side system will not afect the game client and it will not force close the game. The game client can still be running. It just close another application or tools that might be used for hacking. The problem so far with detecting suspicious program is that maplestory close down its own client when it detect such program. But if there is an error/bug (such as mentioned by petal like coz of antivirus and stuff), it will affect the players because the players can't play. But this side system i suggesting will not force close the game client itself. This will be another shield/prevention of maplestory to force close / shutdown another program without affecting the game client itself. Can be said a soft anti-hacking prevention. The Hard way anti hacking prevention is to close the maple client itself, but this has been proven not working so well because if there is error or bug, innocent players will get affected. But both Soft and hard way can also be run together to complement each other if hacker are using hack program/hack tools while maplestory is running.
@Roni777
I believe there might be legal reasons to not kill other apps. Besides, hackers would probably just figure out how to block that from happening. And as far as I know, Maple's client already closes automatically when it detects certain programmes (usually without banning , though).
I guess an integrity check could be done to the .wz files while starting up the client, but that would probably make the client's start up time longer.
In my opinion, the best way for Nexon to fight against these issues, is by fixing logic and/or design flaws that enable these exploits in the first place. Sure, not all hacks can be fought against like this, but I think it would improve the situation.
@Slicedtime
Regarding situation, it is really horrible. Hackers are hacking hours and hours without getting caught. And day by day, they are increasing in numbers
About fixing logic, actually i have learnt a little bit programming on Visual basic to make Point of Sales application. And even a simple Point of Sales is not so easy to handle if we have trouble or error with it. I know maplestory mostlikely doesn't use VIsual basic to make its client. But i know it is not so easy to track coding and stuff especially after it related to thousands of coding. And also, the programmer who made Maplestory in the first place might have not working with Nexon anymore. And so the new programmer that Nexon hire might need to learn the whole content again. As you can see, those trouble regarding event map which makes player lagging have been happening for a long time. Even up until now, maplestory is trying to reduce the uses to event mape as we can see the recently events barely uses the event map. So i suspect, the new programmer hired by Nexon is still trying to understand the whole coding on maplestory. As also disconnecting / freezing issues that is happening, as well as the disconnected issues in Dragon Rider PQ that requires around 6 months or more to fix it. But it would be great if Maplestory can fix the logic/coding.
@Roni777
I see that you want to change how we redeem our mesos and items.
We should consider this more seriously because this could eliminate pet loot lag.
I don't think your idea with the quest things will reduce the amount of scripters.
Other people in this discussion pointed out why.
@Roni777
I see that you want to change how we redeem our mesos and items.
We should consider this more seriously because this could eliminate pet loot lag.
I don't think your idea with the quest things will reduce the amount of scripters.
Other people in this discussion pointed out why.
you know what would also eliminate pet loot lag? changing the way the game tracks quest progress of looting items.
@Cataloo
I heard from a friend that the Developers already stated that they already know the caused of pet loot lag and it will be fixed soon. But yeah, probably what you stated above is one of cause of pet loot lag. Hopefully they fix it soon. We pay for that pets. Not free. So would be good if it pet works as intended to loot items, not to lag players lolol
@ Sliced.
Regarding the legal issues i don't really know. But i do know there are exist several application that can be used to force close another application we don't want, but of course it is with the permission of the user. But there is 99% you might be right. Tho i add further suggestion regarding your inputs. If there is legal issues regarding force closing another application, maplestory Developer can use this trick. To ask for permission from user to forceclose another application that is suspected can be used as hacking tools.
Well, maplestory can use another words not simply saying hacking but words like "We suspect there is another application or running applciation that is not compatible with Maplestory Client. Do you approve us to close these application?" . So before maplestory story force close the other application, they will ask permission from players/user. If the user click yes, obviously maplestory will automatically forceclose/kill the other application. But if the user click no, Maplestory will shutdown its client. I think if it is under user consent, it should not be a legal problem. Similar how Windows are allowed to force close any other applciation with the approval of user. Player can disagree, but that will lead to the closing of Maplestory Client.
Also if Maplestory Developers applies this, they have to make sure before that , that they have a counter or defense mechanism in case hacker finds out how to bypass/block this from happening. Obviously if hacker manage to block anti-hacking system by maplestory, all other method to prevent hack in any ways will be render red useless and this will be the end of maplestory.
To do this, there are also 2 same possibilities. First, Hacker using Tools. But If maplestory applies the scanning before maple client start, it will kill the tools before the client starts and kill the tools when maplestory still running. Second possibility if the hacker Edit or change the game client itself. This one can also be prevented if Maplestory running a scan that make sure hacker doesn't change any coding inside the game itself.
I don't think a good way to deal with hackers is to punish legitimate players, which an update like this would certainly do. I don't want to have to rely on a party of people to do anything in the game, group content for the most part just annoys me.
That said, I don't see why the hackers would have any issue automating all 30 quests, considering they've already automated job advancement quests as well as character creation.
They've already punished the legits enough by doing such things as leaving in those damned floating mobs in the Arcane River areas...WHICH DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THE PROBLEM IT WAS SUPPOSED TO SOLVE.
Yeah, I'm still on one about that and I will be 'till they remove those pesky nuisances from this game.
Otherwise, I have to agree with Daxi that there really is not much they can do about the hackers without making the legits suffer changes to the game which rob from the core reasons people enjoy playing it. The only thing they really could do without changing too much is to beef up the live policing of the popular maps and keep on top of actively banning them from the game. That's a tall order, though.
@Boober
The flying mobs at Arcane River intended so there will be no player can afk at Arcane River map especially on the ground. Because at Arcane River once people get enough Arcane Force, they will only get 1 damage from any monsters. Before, I was actually afk anywhere i want at Arcane River wherever i want because the mobs can't kill me at all. I never worried dieing in any maps before. Well if it is only me, it will be okay. But if like 1000 players start doing the same thing as me before, just afk anywhere in the map while gettting knockbacked by monsters everywhere, it will cause inconvinience to any other players who is using the map especially on long hours of grinding. I think that is the main reason.
Regarding this i actually think that maple should make changes to this Flying mob. Because the damage it caused is too high. Players easily get killed by it because it kils us on several hits and amkes us losing our hard earned exp. It is a nightmare for real when you get chased by the flying mob while it lock you from using any potions to heal. Simply a nightmare for me. They can just make it so that if we get killed by it, we won't get our exp reduced. At least it will still get rid of players who afk in the map without giving disadvantages to the other players. At most players will just have to move to the map back without losing any exp after dieing from the flying mob.
And yes boober, I am 100% agree with you, it should not making any disadvantages to legit players. I absolutely agree. Solutions are supposed to help player to enjoy the game more, not the other way. So far, Maplestory doesn't willing to spend more money to have a lot of GM to patrol.
If Maplestory actually willing to do so, actually there is 1 simple solution, which i think they should have been thinking about it, they can just make 1 special map where GM will always ready and standby there in case player want to report a hacker. Like a Police Station in real world. After GM get the report, they can go to the map and ban the hacker. To avoid any misuse, Maple can create a restriction before entering. Like must be on certain level, example level 120+ or even level 200+, because getting level 120 is easy. And maybe like if any players abuse this, they can't get in into this map for 3 days or more. And if certain players keep abusing it, even with the warning from GM, Gm can just ban them.
@Boober
The flying mobs at Arcane River intended so there will be no player can afk at Arcane River map especially on the ground. Because at Arcane River once people get enough Arcane Force, they will only get 1 damage from any monsters. Before, I was actually afk anywhere i want at Arcane River wherever i want because the mobs can't kill me at all. I never worried dieing in any maps before. Well if it is only me, it will be okay. But if like 1000 players start doing the same thing as me before, just afk anywhere in the map while gettting knockbacked by monsters everywhere, it will cause inconvinience to any other players who is using the map especially on long hours of grinding. I think that is the main reason.
Regarding this i actually think that maple should make changes to this Flying mob. Because the damage it caused is too high. Players easily get killed by it because it kils us on several hits. Or probably just make it so that if we get killed by it, we won't get our exp reduced. At least it will still get rid of players who afk in the map without giving disadvantages to the other players. At most players will just have to move to the map back without losing any exp after dieing from the flying mob.
And yes boober, I am 100% agree with you, it should not making any disadvantages to legit players. I absolutely agree. Solutions are supposed to help player to enjoy the game more, not the other way. So far, Maplestory doesn't willing to spend more money to have a lot of GM to patrol.
If Maplestory actually willing to do so, actually there is 1 simple solution, which i think they should have been thinking about it, they can just make 1 special map where GM will always ready and standby there in case player want to report a hacker. Like a Police Station in real world. To avoid any misuse, Maple can create a restriction before entering. Like must be on certain level, example level 120+ or even level 200+, because getting level 120 is easy. And maybe like if any players abuse this, they can't get in into this map for 3 days or more. And if certain players keep abusing it, even with the warning from GM, Gm can just ban them.
You know there IS a GM map...aka the "White screen" and Spinel's Forest...that GMs will teleport people into.
@Petal. Yes. But we don't have a map where players can go to meet standby GM when we find a hacker. and we can report it at the same time. So that GM can receive the report in game and directly go to the map and ban the player. We need a in-game map where players can go there to meet standby Gm so GM can do immediate reaction to it.
The step to produce :
1. A player see a hacker
2. A player go to any city, click Dimension Portal - GM Map
3. Player will meet a GM and tell which map and which channel plus the hacker name.
4. Gm go there and see whether the report is true or not
5. If the report is true, GM will ban the hacker. If it is not true, the player will not be able to enter the GM map for 1-3 days.
I don't think a good way to deal with hackers is to punish legitimate players, which an update like this would certainly do. I don't want to have to rely on a party of people to do anything in the game, group content for the most part just annoys me.
That said, I don't see why the hackers would have any issue automating all 30 quests, considering they've already automated job advancement quests as well as character creation.
They've already punished the legits enough by doing such things as leaving in those damned floating mobs in the Arcane River areas...WHICH DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THE PROBLEM IT WAS SUPPOSED TO SOLVE..
those mobs were added by KMS to prevent people from map hogging while AFK or not actively killing, they were not added to stop afk key weighters or bots, so they actually are doing what they are meant to do, we just never had that problem in GMS. I wouldn't hold my breath on them getting removed either.
Comments
If you, as a player, are able to open your quest log and read what the quest is telling you to do then the cheaters are able to automatically do the same and automate the process of getting new quests/completing them.
Hmm Yeah, I also somehow seen less Blazewizard hacker around.
@Catalooo,
Yes I am trying to deflect opinions who claimed that it is a fact without i know how expert they are in this field. I just believe that in programming everyone's expertise is different. Or does my understanding is wrong? Is programming something that is so easy to learn so that everyone can learn its ins and out and it is laid bare out there just for everyone to grab and can become expert in this field without enough experience and knowledge? is everyone knowledge regarding hacking and ways to prevent it is the same?
That is why I'm not criticising on any suggestions on this post that give a possible solutions, ideas or something that is in-depth of solution because i am not the expert in this field. I am not critising you on any of your solutions or reccomendations to prevent hacker because i don't have the ability to judge that. But I am critisizing more to people who simply say "no/impossible" which indicates to me that they are trying to say that they are at least amongst the smartest / the top expert programmer in this whole world and they know everything ins and out about programming and anti-hacking solutions and what they are saying will never be wrong.
Simply because they believe that they are at the top amongst the top expert in programming or regarding hacking prevention somehow made me curious too. At least that is how i feel from their comments. That was also why i tried to confirm how expert and experience they are regarding this field that makes them so confident that there are no ways to prevent hacker. If they are expert enough, so yes, i can take their words as a fact.
Or probably my thinking is wrong. Probably anyone can easily become expert in this field. No need expertise at all to become an expert programmer. It is very easy to learn like playing cards. After you learn a bit about it, you know everything about it . Even someone with average knowledge will be considered expert in programming or in anti-hacking field and can have enough knowledge and all their words can be considered truth/fact and never be wrong. At least that is what i get from your comment.
But on this, i can't comment much coz i don't understand how the expertise in programming works. I can just guesses. But i will take that into mind. What was in my mind was that it works similar to how doctor expertise works. Different Doctor might have different diagnoses and have different medications on the same patient. Coz i had once a friend who had 3 doctors who diagnose differently and in the end he went to Singapore and follow the instruction from the Doctor in Singapore because he believed they are more expert in the field. Probably it doesn't work the similar way. Probably there is no such expertise in programming or anti hacking case. And no, i won't learn about programming, it is not my field. I am far away from it. All i can do is contribute what i can do the maplestory community. I will let Nexon/maplestory programmer /anti hacking team do their Job. I just give them ideas.
Do you realize how many people that would push away...I've had Nexon detect "suspicious" programs when all I have is an anti virus and Maple. Heck, some hacks are INTERNAL to the game...as in direct editting of the files through magical hack powers...unfortunately it says in the ToS that Hacking isnt allowed...it really won't make a difference if people follow it or not. Most games have some form of hackers, but how they moderate is what seems to make the difference. If you look on FFXIV (game I play quite frequently) there are gold bots just like Maple or most other MMOs...but there aren't a lot, because they actively go out and ban the hell out of them. They even have a priority report for "Gold/Real Money Trade" and bots usually get banned in a day or two (you can tell because their name will dissappear from blacklist or become "Removed") Heck, we the players can kill the bots in certain areas...
So you think that just because someone disagrees with you, that they are intentionally expressing that they believe they are experts? That is completely and baselessly assumptuous. You think that what you suggest is absolutely possible and that it there is no chance for it to be impossible and therefore any attempt to argue so is automatically wrong? That is beyond arrogant, especially how you think you are completely unquestionable by anyone not deemed "expert" enough.
You even admit to "deflecting opinions" just because "they're not an expert." Completely shameless.
Your thinking is wrong. Absolutely wrong. You believe you're allowed to push your ideas here without being an expert because you're "just trying to contribute", but everyone else needs several years of experience in several different MMOs and to post a whole damn resume just for you to say anything without being considered "just an opinion." You're the one that believes your opinion is absolutely impenetrable because you think you can just set the highest bar imaginable to even be allowed to comment on, let alone criticise it, and so far no one can. And you don't even follow your own rules to that. You even have @Catalooo who has experience, but you just push aside what he has to say because you don't agree with it. It's no wonder no one agrees with you. It's completely impossible to without looking just as incompetent.
But that all doesn't even matter to you. You won't even take any of what anyone has to say into consideration. You've completely abstained from constructive discussion by rejecting anything and everything you disagree with. That's not how you make a suggestion, that's how you show you're a stubborn idiot, one that believes they are always right. An absolute joke. A lost cause.
2. & 3. When you start up a program on your computer, some data is put into the computers RAM. A hacker can then use varius tools to read and manipulate certain values and data in the program's memory, thus allowing them to exploit flaws in the game. Actual "cracking" of Maple's code isn't necessary. However, as far as I know, one can also illegitimately edit *.wz files that the game uses to store varius pieces of client side data, though I have less knowledge about that. To my understanding it's a bit like an *.ini hack or DLL injection.
4. If the task automation tool is programmed or "taught" to handle that, sure. It's not like botters can't make a table of all the quests based on the quest description.
This issue is not really about cyber security or encryption. No one is stealing anyone's data. The problem is that there are flaws in the game that can be exploited client side. If a crypto was applied in a way that no one can read the game client, neither can you.
Also, I want to remind you that you don't need to be an expert to know this stuff. The basics of programming are actually fairly simple, and getting a moderate, surface level understanding of most things would probably take a month of studying at most. A bit in the same vain that you don't need a PhD in chemistry to know why fats aren't water-soluble, and to know the difference between an acid and a base.
if they direct modify the files through hacking isn't that means they are changing the game cleint or game files? If it means internal in game, doesn't it means they change something inside the game? Is it really hard to detect a files inside maplestory that has been modified diffrently from the original one? According to Sliced post above,, they are using tools. So there are 2 possible ways. Modifying maple's files before the game start or running tools when maplestory is running.
@Rolls. Really Rollls. Are we keep debating this again? Alright i will take the facts that you give that, anyone can be expert and the best in anti hacking solutions and can become master to prevent hacker just by studying a month in a world of programmer, even if they are someone who doesn't even have a bit of any knowledge about programming. Everyone can become anti hacker expert with just a bit of studying. Noted. I can go laugh at people who is working at anti hacking solutions / company now coz their work can be copied by someone else who have just learned for it about 1 month. Noted.
@Sliced
So there is actually an editing involve right? .wz is actually a maplestory properties. If they are manipulating maple program's memory, isn't that means they manipulate maplestory properties? Editing other people properties without permission is actually a crime. According to you, it requires tools to do it.
I was suggesting for maplestory to make their anti hacking system to detect any tools that might be used to modifiy maplestory when maplestory is running and kill those tools/ force close the tools including autmation tools. This solution is not about banning people, but about forceclose/kill those tools that also run when maplestory is also running. I believe that maplestory antihacking team has to know how the hack works before they can make prevention. So i believe they knows which tools can be used to hack. So they can create a prevention system by killing those program before or when maplestory client is running.
This is possible if those tools needed to run when maplestory is running in order to make the hack works. I say it is possible because i know some application can force close other application including windows when shutting down can force close any program that is running. So i think it is also possible for maplestory to create a prevention to force close any other programs without affecting the maplestory game client play itself. This system won't close the game client, just the other application / tools. Maplestory just need to identified those commonly used automation tools / hacking tools that might be used in order to create unallowed advantages to players and automaically force closethose program/tools, not the game client itself. Because this will not force close the game client and will not affect the players, maplestory can be strict on this and just close any tools they think might be used to hack.
So instead maplestory detecting suspicious program and ban people, they also make another system to detect suspicious program and kill /force close those program. I believe those tools/program that is used to hack should be a commonly used program/ tools. Not tools that someone actually create bythemself from scratch specially for maplestory. If that is so, there won't be so many hackers around. Not many people can create those kind of tools from scratch. i believe a lot of hackers is just using those tools that commonly. available, mostlikely free or a cheap one. In order to do this, maplestory can modifidied their Term Of Service into allowing themselves to kill/force close any other program that can be used as tools to hack / do automation.
The 2nd possible ways is that hacker actually modified maplestory files. so when they are running the maplestory program client, they don't actually need any tools anymore. Because they are already modifying / editing files so when hacker start the modified client file, the client itself will automatically hack for them. There is no need for any tools anymore. They just need to run the maplestory client files that has been modified. If this is what happened, it means the hack can be run without tools since they are already modifying the files so thta the client will automatically hack for them. If this is what happened, then maplestory need somehow to create a system that can detect when their own files has been modified before the client started. Like the client running a simple scanning on certain coding that might have been edited before the client start.. That is if detecting their own code is possible.
Can also combine both suggestions above. So if hcker modifying the files before even the client started, maplestory can prevent it by doing simple scanning on certain codes that might be exploited/edited/modified before the client start. And if the hacker running tools when or after maple starts/ running, they can create a side system that will force close/shut the hacking program/ tools down. This side system will not afect the game client and it will not force close the game. The game client can still be running. It just close another application or tools that might be used for hacking. The problem so far with detecting suspicious program is that maplestory close down its own client when it detect such program. But if there is an error/bug (such as mentioned by petal like coz of antivirus and stuff), it will affect the players because the players can't play. But this side system i suggesting will not force close the game client itself. This will be another shield/prevention of maplestory to force close / shutdown another program without affecting the game client itself. Can be said a soft anti-hacking prevention. The Hard way anti hacking prevention is to close the maple client itself, but this has been proven not working so well because if there is error or bug, innocent players will get affected. But both Soft and hard way can also be run together to complement each other if hacker are using hack program/hack tools while maplestory is running.
I believe there might be legal reasons to not kill other apps. Besides, hackers would probably just figure out how to block that from happening. And as far as I know, Maple's client already closes automatically when it detects certain programmes (usually without banning , though).
I guess an integrity check could be done to the .wz files while starting up the client, but that would probably make the client's start up time longer.
In my opinion, the best way for Nexon to fight against these issues, is by fixing logic and/or design flaws that enable these exploits in the first place. Sure, not all hacks can be fought against like this, but I think it would improve the situation.
Regarding situation, it is really horrible. Hackers are hacking hours and hours without getting caught. And day by day, they are increasing in numbers
About fixing logic, actually i have learnt a little bit programming on Visual basic to make Point of Sales application. And even a simple Point of Sales is not so easy to handle if we have trouble or error with it. I know maplestory mostlikely doesn't use VIsual basic to make its client. But i know it is not so easy to track coding and stuff especially after it related to thousands of coding. And also, the programmer who made Maplestory in the first place might have not working with Nexon anymore. And so the new programmer that Nexon hire might need to learn the whole content again. As you can see, those trouble regarding event map which makes player lagging have been happening for a long time. Even up until now, maplestory is trying to reduce the uses to event mape as we can see the recently events barely uses the event map. So i suspect, the new programmer hired by Nexon is still trying to understand the whole coding on maplestory. As also disconnecting / freezing issues that is happening, as well as the disconnected issues in Dragon Rider PQ that requires around 6 months or more to fix it. But it would be great if Maplestory can fix the logic/coding.
I see that you want to change how we redeem our mesos and items.
We should consider this more seriously because this could eliminate pet loot lag.
I don't think your idea with the quest things will reduce the amount of scripters.
Other people in this discussion pointed out why.
you know what would also eliminate pet loot lag? changing the way the game tracks quest progress of looting items.
I heard from a friend that the Developers already stated that they already know the caused of pet loot lag and it will be fixed soon. But yeah, probably what you stated above is one of cause of pet loot lag. Hopefully they fix it soon. We pay for that pets. Not free. So would be good if it pet works as intended to loot items, not to lag players lolol
Regarding the legal issues i don't really know. But i do know there are exist several application that can be used to force close another application we don't want, but of course it is with the permission of the user. But there is 99% you might be right. Tho i add further suggestion regarding your inputs. If there is legal issues regarding force closing another application, maplestory Developer can use this trick. To ask for permission from user to forceclose another application that is suspected can be used as hacking tools.
Well, maplestory can use another words not simply saying hacking but words like "We suspect there is another application or running applciation that is not compatible with Maplestory Client. Do you approve us to close these application?" . So before maplestory story force close the other application, they will ask permission from players/user. If the user click yes, obviously maplestory will automatically forceclose/kill the other application. But if the user click no, Maplestory will shutdown its client. I think if it is under user consent, it should not be a legal problem. Similar how Windows are allowed to force close any other applciation with the approval of user. Player can disagree, but that will lead to the closing of Maplestory Client.
Also if Maplestory Developers applies this, they have to make sure before that , that they have a counter or defense mechanism in case hacker finds out how to bypass/block this from happening. Obviously if hacker manage to block anti-hacking system by maplestory, all other method to prevent hack in any ways will be render red useless and this will be the end of maplestory.
To do this, there are also 2 same possibilities. First, Hacker using Tools. But If maplestory applies the scanning before maple client start, it will kill the tools before the client starts and kill the tools when maplestory still running. Second possibility if the hacker Edit or change the game client itself. This one can also be prevented if Maplestory running a scan that make sure hacker doesn't change any coding inside the game itself.
They've already punished the legits enough by doing such things as leaving in those damned floating mobs in the Arcane River areas...WHICH DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THE PROBLEM IT WAS SUPPOSED TO SOLVE.
Yeah, I'm still on one about that and I will be 'till they remove those pesky nuisances from this game.
Otherwise, I have to agree with Daxi that there really is not much they can do about the hackers without making the legits suffer changes to the game which rob from the core reasons people enjoy playing it. The only thing they really could do without changing too much is to beef up the live policing of the popular maps and keep on top of actively banning them from the game. That's a tall order, though.
The flying mobs at Arcane River intended so there will be no player can afk at Arcane River map especially on the ground. Because at Arcane River once people get enough Arcane Force, they will only get 1 damage from any monsters. Before, I was actually afk anywhere i want at Arcane River wherever i want because the mobs can't kill me at all. I never worried dieing in any maps before. Well if it is only me, it will be okay. But if like 1000 players start doing the same thing as me before, just afk anywhere in the map while gettting knockbacked by monsters everywhere, it will cause inconvinience to any other players who is using the map especially on long hours of grinding. I think that is the main reason.
Regarding this i actually think that maple should make changes to this Flying mob. Because the damage it caused is too high. Players easily get killed by it because it kils us on several hits and amkes us losing our hard earned exp. It is a nightmare for real when you get chased by the flying mob while it lock you from using any potions to heal. Simply a nightmare for me. They can just make it so that if we get killed by it, we won't get our exp reduced. At least it will still get rid of players who afk in the map without giving disadvantages to the other players. At most players will just have to move to the map back without losing any exp after dieing from the flying mob.
And yes boober, I am 100% agree with you, it should not making any disadvantages to legit players. I absolutely agree. Solutions are supposed to help player to enjoy the game more, not the other way. So far, Maplestory doesn't willing to spend more money to have a lot of GM to patrol.
If Maplestory actually willing to do so, actually there is 1 simple solution, which i think they should have been thinking about it, they can just make 1 special map where GM will always ready and standby there in case player want to report a hacker. Like a Police Station in real world. After GM get the report, they can go to the map and ban the hacker. To avoid any misuse, Maple can create a restriction before entering. Like must be on certain level, example level 120+ or even level 200+, because getting level 120 is easy. And maybe like if any players abuse this, they can't get in into this map for 3 days or more. And if certain players keep abusing it, even with the warning from GM, Gm can just ban them.
You know there IS a GM map...aka the "White screen" and Spinel's Forest...that GMs will teleport people into.
The step to produce :
1. A player see a hacker
2. A player go to any city, click Dimension Portal - GM Map
3. Player will meet a GM and tell which map and which channel plus the hacker name.
4. Gm go there and see whether the report is true or not
5. If the report is true, GM will ban the hacker. If it is not true, the player will not be able to enter the GM map for 1-3 days.
those mobs were added by KMS to prevent people from map hogging while AFK or not actively killing, they were not added to stop afk key weighters or bots, so they actually are doing what they are meant to do, we just never had that problem in GMS. I wouldn't hold my breath on them getting removed either.