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Kanna Revamp Changes

YonaxYonax
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edited August 2017 in Archive
So let's see if we can figure out all Kanna changes that have been made with their revamp, since the patch notes didn't mention them. Than maybe when the patch goes live Arwooo can use these for the actual patch notes.

Patch notes kanna changes:
• All jobs receiving some skill revamps to improve the balance between jobs.
• Both Kanna and Hayato are receiving skill revamps to adjust their skills’ stats, balance, energy cost, and more.
• Kanna’s stats will be increased to make her more competitive and balanced with other Magician jobs.

Actual changes:
1st job:
Shikigami Haunting:
- Larger hitbox (goes for all shikigami's job 1-4)

Ether Pulse (teleport):
- Less delay upon casting skill (not certain)

Haku;'s gift:
- +10 INT, 100 defense

2nd job:
Shikigami charm:
- Passively gives -15% damage intake

Nimbus curse:
- More lines of damage

3rd job:
Soul Shear:
- Passively gives 30% Final Damage

Lifeblood Ritual:
- Removed healing aspect at bosses (didn't work proper in past)
- Passively gives 30% status resistance

Spirit Path:
- +15% Critical Damage

Kishin Shoukan:
- Number of mobs in map +50% --> +70% (reverted back to old values)
- Respawn rate of Kishin seems to be 3240ms

However there is a large variety, due to a higher ping and higher server latency, the respawn rate seems to differ between 3240ms and 4000ms mostly. (additional testing would help to see if its related to latency at times or that its not consistant on 3240ms respawn rate).

Kishin test:


4th job:
Haku Perfected:
- Gives now 5% Final Damage for each party member for Kanna when sharing Haku's buffs with party members (Haku Reborn icon top right)

Vanquisher Charm:
- Damage 235 --> 242%

Kasen:
- Fan Mastery 65% --> 70%

Nine Tail Fury:
- Cooldown 500s --> 325s

Demon's Fury:
- Damage 190 --> 200%

Shocking Shikigami Haunting:
- Per Shikigami Haunting Damage: 115% -> 120% (Total Damage Increase: 240% -> 255%)

Current bugs:
- Soul Shear gives 30% damage, while description indicate 30% FD should have been given (is reported).
- Both barriers transparancy still not working.
- At Cygnus Empress when blackhearted curse triggers monkey spirit it will kill you if Cygnus has Damage Reflect active (monkey spirit should not be affected by DR) - Needs testing!!!.
- Haku's Perfected: Shows 0% IED instead of 40%.
- When having several Kanna's in the same party, haku's blessing override each other. (you get the buff of the one last cast).

Suggestions:
- Make Soul Shear Toggleable.
- Node for Black hearted curse and Kishin



Since my main didn't copy over as Luna player, I started from fresh, currently just reached 4th job and will test more once I'm higher level, but your input is more than welcome!
DoKingcraftymooseJettLuvsURennnSirZerarddragonluxNoComparison

Comments

  • NequeoNequeo
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    edited August 2017
    i have a 200 kanna (legion mule, no 5th job), if you need to check stuff, i can help
    Yonax
  • YonaxYonax
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    edited August 2017
    We need to compare % damage of skills from 1.87 and 1.88 and see if you find any new changes?.

    Also see if you find any bugs or test current known ones.
  • NequeoNequeo
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    edited August 2017
    will check with my kanna on gms once maintenance is done
  • RennnRennn
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    edited August 2017
    Thanks for this! Only got my Tespia kanna to 2nd job (reboot kanna main) before getting stuck in a runtime error loop but the changes looks about right up to 2nd job. Just have some questions and suggestions.
    Yonax wrote: »
    Nimbus curse:
    - More lines of damage
    The skill description could've been more specific on the lines of damage inflicted on cast IMO.
    3rd job:
    Soul Shear:
    - Passively gives 30% Final Damage
    RIP from red balls of cancer. Does skill transparency work with this? Or did they change it to be at least a toggle skill?
    Lifeblood Ritual:
    - Removed healing aspect at bosses (didn't work proper in past)
    - Passively gives 30% status resistance
    IIRC the healing thing from this skill would trigger at bosses with damage reflect status. Ranmaru is a good boss to test it just in case they left the boss healing intact.
    4th job:
    Haku Perfected:
    - Gives now 5% Final Damage for each party member for Kanna when sharing Haku's buffs with party members (Haku Reborn icon top right)
    Since haku's buffs has a distance range on cast just like any other party buff, it might be good to get a group of ppl to test whether the fd is added correctly etc.
  • NeurobeatNeurobeat
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    edited August 2017
    o/

    250 Kanna with maxed skills. I'll compare to live servers when they're back.


    Things happened and other people got to it first. :*
  • zz2020zz2020
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    edited August 2017
    weird that they're buffing kanna when they're already part of the most overpowered party composition for bossing thanks to the haku magic att buff
  • NequeoNequeo
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    edited August 2017
    4th Job Skills:
    Vanquisher's Charm: Damage per shot: 235% -> 242%
    Kasen: Fan Mastery 65% -> 70%
    Nine-Tailed Fury: Cooldown 500 sec -> 325 sec
    Shocking Shikigami Haunting: Passive Effect: Per Shikigami Haunting Damage: 115% -> 120% (Total Damage Increase: 240% -> 255%)
    Demon's Fury: Damage per shot: 190% -> 200%
  • AKradianAKradian
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    Oh crap. I don't want to put SP in Soul Shear F4
  • YonaxYonax
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    edited August 2017
    Nequeo wrote: »
    4th Job Skills:
    Vanquisher's Charm: Damage per shot: 235% -> 242%
    Kasen: Fan Mastery 65% -> 70%
    Nine-Tailed Fury: Cooldown 500 sec -> 325 sec
    Shocking Shikigami Haunting: Passive Effect: Per Shikigami Haunting Damage: 115% -> 120% (Total Damage Increase: 240% -> 255%)
    Demon's Fury: Damage per shot: 190% -> 200%

    This seems in correspondence with an older patch JMS had for Kanna and we never received before in GMS.
  • ElystElyst
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    edited August 2017
    Hopefully we can make some noise to prevent that Kishin Shoukan nerf from coming through. Between that and the drop rate nerf that's also being added in this patch, late game progression is going to be brutal.
  • pwnerjohnpwnerjohn
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    edited August 2017
    According to what Arwoo said on discord, Haku's blessing is currently not working as intended. It's supposed to get a nerf where only the base magic attack of the fan is used for the % calculation (so scrolls / starforce no longer have an effect). Alongside that nerf, the resulting % matt increase is to be turned into flat matt, which means an Arcane Umbra Fan with 347 matt will give only +167 matt as a boost as opposed to +167% matt. Using another Arcane Umbra Fan, the total matt that your fan would give would then be ~514 vs ~927, which is a ~413 matt reduction. This isn't including the base magic attack only nerf (a Kanna main mentioned that their fan had 600 matt scrolled/starforced).

    To me, this looks like a tremendous nerf where not even the 35-60% final damage that's being added will be remotely enough to keep Kanna competitive against other mages.

    Perhaps I'm interpreting his words incorrectly, and I hope that's the case.
  • StallbenStallben
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    edited August 2017
    Wait, so they nerfed Kishin AGAIN?! I couldn't really tell when trying out the skills. If anything, I thought it may have been a bug. So, does this mean frenzy totem once again has a better spawn rate? We already went through this... I'll have to do more testing. That said, I'm kind of sad they're nerfing Haku. I haven't really noticed anything that's supposed to make her more competitive with other mages as I haven't been able to get to higher levels yet. Is the exp rate the same as in normal servers or is there an increased exp yield? The only thing I've noticed is that the Shikigami Haunting skill is MASSIVE. Then again, it may just be because I'm playing on a bigger computer screen. I'll have to compare with the normal server. Also, if we're allowed to make suggestions, I'd like it if Shikigami Haunting could hit more than three monsters. It's supposed to be her main attacking skill, but it's so weak compared to her other ones mobbing wise (unless Monkey Spirits makes up for it even though its proc chance is only 60%?). Maybe it's just me who would like that, but I thought it would be a nice change. Can any high level Kannas please clarify about the possible nerfed Kishin? I can't really test in certain environments yet, so I'm not sure.

    Edit: Shikigami Haunting is definitely bigger. Just wanted to check it out since someone mentioned it having a bigger hit box.
    g9100
  • glaceonglaceon
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    edited August 2017
    Yonax wrote: »
    3rd job:
    Soul Shear:
    - Passively gives 30% Final Damage
    It actually gives 30% Damage Bonus instead of Final Damage.

  • KingReesesPuffKingReesesPuff
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    edited August 2017
    I don't feel the difference with kishin actually. It's still the 3 second respawn rate like in the live servers. For those who experience the nerf, what map were you at? Also, is the kanna newly created or was carried over? I asked that because it might be effecting only certain kanna characters.
  • RennnRennn
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    edited August 2017
    pwnerjohn wrote: »
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    e5nEF3P.png

    According to what Arwoo said on discord, Haku's blessing is currently not working as intended. It's supposed to get a nerf where only the base magic attack of the fan is used for the % calculation (so scrolls / starforce no longer have an effect). Alongside that nerf, the resulting % matt increase is to be turned into flat matt, which means an Arcane Umbra Fan with 347 matt will give only +167 matt as a boost as opposed to +167% matt. Using another Arcane Umbra Fan, the total matt that your fan would give would then be ~514 vs ~927, which is a ~413 matt reduction. This isn't including the base magic attack only nerf (a Kanna main mentioned that their fan had 600 matt scrolled/starforced).

    To me, this looks like a tremendous nerf where not even the 35-60% final damage that's being added will be remotely enough to keep Kanna competitive against other mages.

    Perhaps I'm interpreting his words incorrectly, and I hope that's the case.

    glaceon wrote: »
    Yonax wrote: »
    3rd job:
    Soul Shear:
    - Passively gives 30% Final Damage
    It actually gives 30% Damage Bonus instead of Final Damage.

    I only play Reboot so I can only speak for Rebooters but if the above is true, I'm not sure if Kanna would even be a viable class by herself in that server considering that we rebooters get a passive that gives us high damage% and hence damage% hits diminishing returns quicker and our MATT is gonna be gutted with haku nerfs. Hell, they can nerf haku's blessing's party effect to pacify physical classes crying about haku's brokeness which I sorta agree with but I think the devs and most people forgot that haku's blessing mainly serve to buff kanna herself from crap to below average and playable.

    I don't know if the increased % from her skills would even make up for the haku nerf but it'd be good if someone could run some battle statistics / crunch some numbers.

    About the kishin nerf, I can't test it right now but boy, there's gonna be a ton of outrage especially amongst rebooters and people who painstakenly trained up a kanna mule... Though, is there nerfed spawn numbers or just respawn time... or both?
  • ElystElyst
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    edited August 2017
    Rennn wrote: »
    About the kishin nerf, I can't test it right now but boy, there's gonna be a ton of outrage especially amongst rebooters and people who painstakenly trained up a kanna mule... Though, is there nerfed spawn numbers or just respawn time... or both?

    It's the probably the following changes:
    • REMOVED increasing spawn cap from 70% to 0%.
    • REDUCED increasing spawn rate. (see below)
    • No Kishins 7560ms(millisecond)
    • 1 Kishin 5400ms
    • 2 Kishins 4320ms
    • 3+ Kishins 3240ms

  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited August 2017
    Elyst wrote: »
    Rennn wrote: »
    About the kishin nerf, I can't test it right now but boy, there's gonna be a ton of outrage especially amongst rebooters and people who painstakenly trained up a kanna mule... Though, is there nerfed spawn numbers or just respawn time... or both?

    It's the probably the following changes:
    • REMOVED increasing spawn cap from 70% to 0%.
    • REDUCED increasing spawn rate. (see below)
    • No Kishins 7560ms(millisecond)
    • 1 Kishin 5400ms
    • 2 Kishins 4320ms
    • 3+ Kishins 3240ms

    That is definitely not the case. Kishin still increases spawn count.
    I'll do some comparative testing with the live servers today, to see if the increase is less than before.
  • YonaxYonax
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    edited August 2017
    Kishin has been further tested and is rather on par with what it was previously. At times you can get a slower respawn time, but it seems that this is more the case of server latency and your ping to the server, than to an actual change to the skill. More tests will be necesarry if you wanna determine a statistical difference in respawn time.

    To comment to the quotes on discord made of Arwoo:

    - Changing haku blessing to a flat bonus, will nerf a kanna by about 70% of its current damage (depends on your current haku fan)
    --> You remove an unique feature of the job, you can just put a clean fan on haku, haku already can only use m.att % as potential (very hard to get), players spent a lot of money already on their haku fan.
    - Changing Haku blessing to simply a lower % will nerf kanna significantly as well.
    - The boost Kanna gained so far are absolutely necesarry for Kanna to be more competitive compared to other mages. Let me quote from the patch notes:
    • Kanna’s stats will be increased to make her more competitive and balanced with other Magician jobs.

    We all know Haku's blessing is a massive buff currently for mages partying with Kanna. To adress this Haku's blessing could be reverted to its non-party state again as it was in the past. This seems the best way to balance out party's as well as keeping Kanna's gameplay intact as it stated in the patch notes Kanna's stats will be increased.

    Reducing Haku's blessing in any form for Kanna itself, will probably mean Kanna mains won't be viable at all anymore. Since they currently really need the current listed buffs to be even compettive with bishops in terms of solo damage output. We all know Bishops are not particularly the strongest job in the game.
    DoKingRennnPizzaaElystdragonlux
  • DoKingDoKing
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    edited August 2017
    Agreed with Yonax, I do not believe giving Kannas 5% final damage per party member added whilst gutting Haku's strong Magic atk % blessing is a fair balance change.

    Kanna's own damage relies on Haku's strong magic atk % blessing to be competitive with other mage classes and with that they still fall short.

    It is understandable that Haku's Magic ATK % blessing is overpowered for any other mages that receive the buff and that they should not be benefiting as much as they currently are. Instead I propose that Kannas retain Haku's Magic Atk% blessing for personal use and any party members who are buffed by Haku's other skills are to receive the 5-30% Final Damage in place of the Magic atk % buff.

    TLDR : Kanna keep current % Magic atk boost from Haku's Blessing. Other classes do not gain this % Magic atk when buffed by Haku.
    Party Members instead GAIN 5%-30% Final damage depending on the number of party members buffed by Haku.
  • KrylonKrylon
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    edited August 2017
    DoKing wrote: »
    TLDR : Kanna keep current % Magic atk boost from Haku's Blessing. Other classes do not gain this % Magic atk when buffed by Haku.
    Party Members instead GAIN 5%-30% Final damage depending on the number of party members buffed by Haku.
    I agree with this alot, if they go with the nerf they are making a lower tier class not viable anymore to even solo most of the bosses it could before the nerf. Prepare for a new main before this goes live just incase, also a great way to mess with a 150b worth of weapon that I could have used on a better class.
    g9100