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On (Pre-)Nova Bans, Policy, and Treatment of Users

Comments

  • SorrowSorrow
    Reactions: 2,780
    Posts: 314
    Member, Private Tester
    edited December 2017
    Every ban isn't necessarily an autoban simply because you were online at the time that it occurred. It could be have been for something that was done at another time of day after being looked into. People have been treating all their bans as autobans lately, and I think this is just a misconception.
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I think you’re grossly overestimating the amount of patrolling/active GMs. The one memo that Nexon did put out addressing the bans confirmed that the automatic ban system was responsible for the gross majority and that they trust its logic (aka copy paste from initial kanna ban memo).

    I’m not going to speak for anyone else, but i don’t believe doing dailies, as=fking, flag race, and meso farming constitute reason for a ban after investigation by a live GM.

    Also, afaik for accounts with no ban history a manual ban for "first offense" has a two week duration. I'm also not convinced that any offenses were committed by some of the banned users. I know no offense was committed in my case. For whatever reason, Nexon and a few of its stans don't believe false bans ever happen until Nexon comes forward and "sowwys" the falsely banned users all while giving them the backhanded apology that they should avoid use of illegitimate programs that were never used in the first place.
  • TsundereKyuTsundereKyu
    Reactions: 2,120
    Posts: 116
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I can't wait for the autoban to happen to you Sorrow. The bot should not have the ability to permanently ban a player. The bot should only be able to hand out temporary bans. The clear lack of transparency Nexon has in it's ToS/CoC/EULA is disgusting. Now it's the holidays and I doubt that they're going to do anything remotely useful until past New Years. This company can't even follow it's own ban policy because as far as I know, first offenders are suppose to be unbanned while a second ban would be the permanent ban
    Sherri
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
    Reactions: 5,625
    Posts: 1,213
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Sorrow wrote: »
    Every ban isn't necessarily an autoban simply because you were online at the time that it occurred. It could be have been for something that was done at another time of day after being looked into. People have been treating all their bans as autobans lately, and I think this is just a misconception.

    it's already been confirmed that most of the bans as of late are not real GM bans, they are the ban bot, also when a GM bans you, you get to see the name of the GM that banned you in the ban message, there is no name given when you are banned by the automated system.
  • kthxkthx
    Reactions: 320
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited December 2017
    lodwyvern wrote: »
    I am aware of 2 further legits who have been autobanned in the past week. Both have received copy paste responses to detailed explanations/offerings of evidence and requesting for actual investigation rather than just checking the ban log.

    Nexon needs to speak up

    Where is your proof they're legit?
    Were you with the person in real life everyday they were in-game ?

    See you've no solid proof they were legit, just because they're your "Friends" don't mean anything...
    Hard Evidence is needed to be proven, I could sit here and claim anything I want without providing proof It don't mean anything ...

    This so called "Auto-Ban" personally is BS it was likely done because someone at Nexon had a reason to look into their account, They've a area in the data base that has logs of abnormal game play for every player in the game...

    With so many people playing they don't have time to look at everyone's logs.

    The Auto-Ban does exist however a lot of these so called "legit" players that were banned were banned not from a skill that triggered it but some thing they have done recently, account sharing, buying and selling stuff for real money ect..

    See people think they won't get banned for account sharing or buying and selling stuff for real money.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited December 2017
    kthx wrote: »
    lodwyvern wrote: »
    I am aware of 2 further legits who have been autobanned in the past week. Both have received copy paste responses to detailed explanations/offerings of evidence and requesting for actual investigation rather than just checking the ban log.

    Nexon needs to speak up

    Where is your proof they're legit?
    Were you with the person in real life everyday they were in-game ?

    See you've no solid proof they were legit, just because they're your "Friends" don't mean anything...
    Hard Evidence is needed to be proven, I could sit here and claim anything I want without providing proof It don't mean anything ...

    This so called "Auto-Ban" personally is BS it was likely done because someone at Nexon had a reason to look into their account, They've a area in the data base that has logs of abnormal game play for every player in the game...

    With so many people playing they don't have time to look at everyone's logs.

    The Auto-Ban does exist however a lot of these so called "legit" players that were banned were banned not from a skill that triggered it but some thing they have done recently, account sharing, buying and selling stuff for real money ect..

    See people think they won't get banned for account sharing or buying and selling stuff for real money.

    Third party programs were the reason given for the recent ban wave. Not account sharing or buying goods for real life currency.

    Lilyflower
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    You’re right that I have no way of proving other players are legit, but I have no reason to believe either would resort to hacking based on their playing and spending habits.

    The one I can particularly vouch for is a guildie and as a jr of one of reboot’s more respectable guilds I have (had) the responsibility of keeping an eye on active players. I wouldn’t use my kishin mule for someone I didn’t at least have a basic trust for.

    As for my own case: as someone who only plays on reboot the only thing I’ve bought with real money related to maplestory is NX directly from Nexon, and prepaid cards. I don’t share my main account, or my kishin mule. I paid for a new hard drive for my kishin mule’s laptop when the old one failed.

    Beyond that, why should the community have faith in a ban process that has made mistakes so many times and can’t even catch obvious ToU breakers? Why should trust be placed into a company that took 1 month to reverse false bans against a particular class? I’m glad that Nexon has been able to earn your trust, but they haven’t done enough to earn mine. Losing all of my progress and time committed to the game without explanation or reason isn’t something that garners trust. Having support GMs tell me different vague stories about the reason for my ban doesn’t garner trust.

    tl;dr getting banned for "hacking/use of 3rd party programs" when neither is the case doesn't give me any reason to trust Nexon. The same has happened to other players before and will continue to happen until Nexon decides to shape up.

    DarkonslayerXDCaoMeiPei
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
    Reactions: 5,625
    Posts: 1,213
    Member
    edited December 2017
    kthx wrote: »
    lodwyvern wrote: »
    I am aware of 2 further legits who have been autobanned in the past week. Both have received copy paste responses to detailed explanations/offerings of evidence and requesting for actual investigation rather than just checking the ban log.

    Nexon needs to speak up

    Where is your proof they're legit?
    Were you with the person in real life everyday they were in-game ?

    See you've no solid proof they were legit, just because they're your "Friends" don't mean anything...
    Hard Evidence is needed to be proven, I could sit here and claim anything I want without providing proof It don't mean anything ...

    This so called "Auto-Ban" personally is BS it was likely done because someone at Nexon had a reason to look into their account, They've a area in the data base that has logs of abnormal game play for every player in the game...

    With so many people playing they don't have time to look at everyone's logs.

    The Auto-Ban does exist however a lot of these so called "legit" players that were banned were banned not from a skill that triggered it but some thing they have done recently, account sharing, buying and selling stuff for real money ect..

    See people think they won't get banned for account sharing or buying and selling stuff for real money.

    there's already a precedent of both the auto ban system being real, with no GM looking into accounts regarding the giving out these bans, and the ban bot not working properly.

    The Kanna Bannings is proof of all the above, it's also proof that they dont bother to look too deeply into account bans from the ban bot unless it gets enough community attention. They also literally address in the memo (and the past kanna bannings) that it is a bot that did the bans.

    on top of that, I have not bought or owned any duped gear, all gear I have is from my own hard work.
    also I got banned on the 29th of novbember, the day of the new patch, and anyone who knows anything about hacks in MMO's or online gaming services in general, knows that it's impossible to have hacks the day of any new update anyway because they would need to be updated.

    the recent banns were not done by "Some skill" but actually just having "Some program" running in the background, and no, it doesnt need to be related to hacking maplestory, nor does it need to even be interacting with the maple client, this is confirmed by Arwoo's posts in the Reddit.

    I understand being skeptical, but real hackers wouldnt need to complain about their banned accounts, they literally just start a new account and hack their way back to where they were with ease.

    The only time Nexon is accurate in banning, is when there is real human oversight, like them actually seeing you hack or them looking into your account and seeing items that are impossible to get otherwise that are generated or gained from hacking or exploiting.

    There have been many cases of innocent banned players that had to make their way to CM's in the past before they got resolved, Nexon just recently (over the past 2 months) have just made some changes to their ban bot to make that worse.

    Since nexons ban bot is targeting programs that are not even related to hacking maplestory, it's important that there is human oversight (e.g. have the system flag their account and send a invisi GM check them out) which there clearly isnt any with regard to handing out the bans.
    TsundereKyu
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    What should bother legitimate users about this particular wave is that any time Nexon decides to tinker with autoban’s logic, you’re liable to be caught up in a mess where support is unable to help you.

    It should also bother you that support isn’t able to, or doesn’t have 100% of the information needed to handle each individual’s case as displayed by each instance decisions to unban players has had to come from above their heads. It should bug you that you’re told your ban is final and irreversible until it’s acknowledged that a mistake was made. It should really bug you that you can be told inconsistent and vague reasons for a ban by support. Very little is right about the current ban policy.
    CatoooloooTsundereKyu
  • DarkonslayerXDDarkonslayerXD
    Reactions: 620
    Posts: 10
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I was banned on Christmas eve. Talk about a blow to the face. So many scripted lines of walls. I was on live support for hours....
    BlazingEdgeCaoMeiPei
  • TsundereKyuTsundereKyu
    Reactions: 2,120
    Posts: 116
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I’ve been banned for 33 days and to see more players being banned still for whatever reason is awful. I don’t think Nexon’s going to legitmately going to do anything since they seem to put so much god damn trust into their autobanning bot.

    If I’m unbanned in the future, I’m definitely NOT coming back anytime soon. Not until they adjust their ban policies and remove the bot’s ability to permanently ban players.
    CatoooloooDarkonslayerXDlodwyvern
  • DarkonslayerXDDarkonslayerXD
    Reactions: 620
    Posts: 10
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I’ve been banned for 33 days and to see more players being banned still for whatever reason is awful. I don’t think Nexon’s going to legitmately going to do anything since they seem to put so much god damn trust into their autobanning bot.

    If I’m unbanned in the future, I’m definitely NOT coming back anytime soon. Not until they adjust their ban policies and remove the bot’s ability to permanently ban players.

    I just log on every event to do events and walk down nostalgia lane with all my old characters. I can't do that anymore because Nexon auto banned me permanently... Like dude.. I don't even train i just log on for like 30mins at a time to chat up some old guildies.
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    32 days and counting, maybe there’ll be a miracle in the new year and this’ll actually be treated like something that exists
    CatoooloooTsundereKyuDarkonslayerXD
  • DarkonslayerXDDarkonslayerXD
    Reactions: 620
    Posts: 10
    Member
    edited December 2017
    lodwyvern wrote: »
    32 days and counting, maybe there’ll be a miracle in the new year and this’ll actually be treated like something that exists

    How long until we finally get unbanned by NExon's faulty system and incompetent GMs?
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    When Nexon decides it’s worth actually addressing the community other than the half baked statement they gave in the December memo
    DarkonslayerXDTsundereKyuCaoMeiPei
  • BunnyWriterBunnyWriter
    Reactions: 1,485
    Posts: 37
    Member
    edited January 2018
    How long until we finally get unbanned by NExon's faulty system and incompetent GMs?

    Well the almighty Senior GM Atquei gave me a nautomated machine answer so
    my magic 8 ball says: "NEVER!"
This discussion has been closed.