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Kishin in reboot

TransformingThunderTransformingThunder
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edited January 2018 in General Chat
I had some discussions w/ friends about kishin I want to hear your thoughts,

Would you be okay if kishin was nerfed [specifcally in reboot?]
The nerf specifically would remove the increase of spawn.
Let's say nexon increases base spawn to match spawn w/ kishin or increase drop and exp rates though

Just a random thoughts would like to hear your opinion
  1. Would you be okay with a Kishin nerf?27 votes
    1. Yes
       30% (8 votes)
    2. No
       59% (16 votes)
    3. Possibly
       11% (3 votes)

Comments

  • Traveler5577Traveler5577
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    edited January 2018
    if it helps in reboot and eases on things , i hope things are calm for awhile if it works out. increasing exp Rates and Drop Rates would be better in use for Kishin alittle, and can stack with Holy Symbol, plus alittle spawn rate (nerfed.) those monsters are tougher in reboot :)
    Lilyflower
  • LolaBunnyLolaBunny
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    edited January 2018
    I would say yes, only cause it would remove the need of a 2nd computer. Boosting spawn rates passively would help.
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
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    edited January 2018
    I woudl say no, because it would hurt the already hurting Reboot. Kishin is what gives Kannas a purpose these days, unfortunately. If Nexon buffed Kanna to actually be a relatively ok class...then maybe we can talk Kish nerfs.
    Arco
  • TransformingThunderTransformingThunder
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    edited January 2018
    Petalmagic wrote: »
    I woudl say no, because it would hurt the already hurting Reboot. Kishin is what gives Kannas a purpose these days, unfortunately. If Nexon buffed Kanna to actually be a relatively ok class...then maybe we can talk Kish nerfs.

    I feel like that's the same kind of excuse people used to justify jett w/ no cd starfall
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited January 2018
    Kanna still has 2 binds and the barriers for purpose
  • Traveler5577Traveler5577
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    edited January 2018
    i dont understand her class, and her 4th job abilities? is she support mage? barriors? or atking mage? she has no healing power. i dont think they given her character some real thought on understanding her class abilities.. she uses spirits or ghosts and shes a mage yeah. but what is she really? Hayuto is a samurai/ warrior/ swordsman. his abilities show that, and understandably effective. well his link skill isnt level 2 (YET.)
    Lilyflower
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited January 2018
    Petalmagic wrote: »
    I woudl say no, because it would hurt the already hurting Reboot. Kishin is what gives Kannas a purpose these days, unfortunately. If Nexon buffed Kanna to actually be a relatively ok class...then maybe we can talk Kish nerfs.

    I personally feel Kannas are slaves whose purpose is just to increase spawn and DPS of the party while lacking DPS herself. If base spawn rates and populations were buffed to be the same as a field that has Kishin, Kanna's Kishin Shoukan should be changed to be more of a DPS skill than a skill that boost spawns.

  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited January 2018
    i dont understand her class, and her 4th job abilities? is she support mage? barriors? or atking mage? she has no healing power. i dont think they given her character some real thought on understanding her class abilities.. she uses spirits or ghosts and shes a mage yeah. but what is she really? Hayuto is a samurai/ warrior/ swordsman. his abilities show that, and understandably effective. well his link skill isnt level 2 (YET.)

    Kanna does have a theme and her theme fits mage class as it is spirit and summoning related.

    Kanna is a bit of an exorcist type mage
    Or the priestesses from inyuasha which were more about spirits and charms than spells and such, which also fits the era.

    Spirits are a big part of japan, there’s a lot of folklore during the samurai times regarding spirits

    And hayato does have a level 2 link now, just recently.
  • TransformingThunderTransformingThunder
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    edited March 2018
    i dont understand her class, and her 4th job abilities? is she support mage? barriors? or atking mage? she has no healing power. i dont think they given her character some real thought on understanding her class abilities.. she uses spirits or ghosts and shes a mage yeah. but what is she really? Hayuto is a samurai/ warrior/ swordsman. his abilities show that, and understandably effective. well his link skill isnt level 2 (YET.)

    I think you answered your own question.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited January 2018
    You would still be able to play kanna, just Just kishin would change, nothing else, if anything they could replace kishin with a buff
  • KidoYaMingKidoYaMing
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    edited January 2018
    I would have to say no, since kishin is the only thing that makes kanna any good. It got nerfed on buffs already. Even though kanna has two binds and one barrier, just using one bind takes almost all its demon fury. Plus, its bossing skill drains like crazy. Honestly, they should just give the whole reboot server an extra buff on exp and meso increase/item drop rate. Ever since the did the reboot nerf with meso farm it made it so hard to make meso.
    Arco
  • TransformingThunderTransformingThunder
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    edited January 2018
    KidoYaMing wrote: »
    I would have to say no, since kishin is the only think that makes kanna any good. It got nerfed on buffs already. Even though kanna has two binds and one barrier, just asking one bind takes almost all its demon fury. Plus its bossing skill drains like crazy. Honestly, they should just give the whole reboot server an extra buff on exp and meso increase/item drop rate. Ever since the did the reboot nerf with meso farm it made it so hard to make meso.

    Again is there any other reasoning besides "it's the only thing that makes kanna good"? I don't that's a valid reason to keep it, again the same argument that people made w/ jett
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited January 2018
    If they made the spawn rate the same as active kishin, kanna can become a solo/bossing class if they also revert the skill they nerfed

    And make kishin into a passive or active buff
  • PigabaPigaba
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    edited January 2018
    Besides her Kishin, she's an absolute garbage. With cooldowns on almost every skills, non-expendable mana gauge, abysmal delay of hp->mana conversion skill (basically cooldown), slow ass delayed teleport skill with unnecessary animation, she's an absolute trash. Kishining the field is the only thing that makes her relative. I will be royally pissed if they nerf the Kishin while drop rate is in its current sorry ass state.
  • TransformingThunderTransformingThunder
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    edited January 2018
    Pigaba wrote: »
    Besides her Kishin, she's an absolute garbage. With cooldowns on almost every skills, non-expendable mana gauge, abysmal delay of hp->mana conversion skill (basically cooldown), slow ass delayed teleport skill with unnecessary animation, she's an absolute trash. Kishining the field is the only thing that makes her relative. I will be royally pissed if they nerf the Kishin while drop rate is in its current sorry ass state.

    You can expend her mana via hyper stats, and most classes have cds on their skills? idk why that was a point she has 3 map clears so yeah it makes sense to have cd's she also has 2 binds again cds make sense, demon fury has a vv low cd, and nimbus w/o a cd would be broken.

    Mana conversion also has a relatively low cd, she shouldn't have 100%~75% all the time, her type of mana is a class mechanic. I do agree her teleport like lumis needs work

    I think that the people are saying kishin shouldn't be nerfed haven't justified why a player would NEED her to be any type of efficient. You essentially don't need a bishop because there is decent holy symbol, evern w/o that we have beast tamer and ms players have phantoms and bishops hs. << You have choices

    It doesn't make sense to need a second computer or to run run multiple clients (against tos) though. It just doesn't seem to be any actual reasoning why kishin has spawn rate in the first place or kept it. I think to help drop/exp the devs should balance around either a base increase of of monsters or off of normal spawn rate so that it's more fair to all players
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited January 2018
    Normally I'd support this suggestion, but looking at Nexon's recent track record... Seems to me that if they "accept" the suggestion they'll instantly remove Kishin's spawn effect, but not buff the base map spawn rate (or kishin's damage, for that matter), or buff them a tiny amount (10-15%?) and then "monitor the situation" until people give up on complaining.

    So I say, first let them fix the other issues they've been "monitoring", like
    - Haku's Blessing
    - Server populations
    - Drop rate buff effects
    - Nodestone/symbol/droplet drop rates
    - Reboot meso farming
    and then they can go about breaking another flawed mechanic that people have come to rely on.
    ShadowParadox
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited January 2018
    spawn rate for kishin removed
    frenzy totem more valuable than ever
    no buffs to rate of obtaining frenzy from philos/marvel and frenzy not added to other sources like gachapon
  • TransformingThunderTransformingThunder
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    edited January 2018
    KidoYaMing wrote: »
    I would have to say no, since kishin is the only think that makes kanna any good. It got nerfed on buffs already. Even though kanna has two binds and one barrier, just asking one bind takes almost all its demon fury. Plus its bossing skill drains like crazy. Honestly, they should just give the whole reboot server an extra buff on exp and meso increase/item drop rate. Ever since the did the reboot nerf with meso farm it made it so hard to make meso.

    Again is there any other reasoning besides "it's the only thing that makes kanna good"? I don't that's a valid reason to keep it, again the same argument that people made w/ jett

    Uhh because it's a fact? Jett has nothing, most of his skills don't even work properly and he doesn't have 5th job boost node for his most important bossing skill. So yeah starfall was literally all the class had going for it.

    That's not a reasoning to keep a game breaking, no cool down map clearing skill. There's absolutely no justifying that. Just because a class sucks isn't a reasoning to keep an unbalanced skill period. That's entirely bad logic
  • KidoYaMingKidoYaMing
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    edited January 2018
    KidoYaMing wrote: »
    I would have to say no, since kishin is the only think that makes kanna any good. It got nerfed on buffs already. Even though kanna has two binds and one barrier, just asking one bind takes almost all its demon fury. Plus its bossing skill drains like crazy. Honestly, they should just give the whole reboot server an extra buff on exp and meso increase/item drop rate. Ever since the did the reboot nerf with meso farm it made it so hard to make meso.

    Again is there any other reasoning besides "it's the only thing that makes kanna good"? I don't that's a valid reason to keep it, again the same argument that people made w/ jett

    Here let me ask you then, why should one class go down hill just because people want a buff? Its like you playing your main and spending so much time powering it up but then it gets nerfs to the point where one no one want to use it no more. They take away all your useful skill and left you with a useless char that sits in the back of your characters. I bring this point because im sure as soon as kishin is gone that is what it will turn too. Even thought jets disconnect with a certain skill, its not the same as making a class completely useless. Kishin only has two binds that kills its demon fury(each bind 80 DF, kanna original 100DF unless you waste hyper skill points points to get up to 150DF) and makes you basic attack. Its bossing skill has drains its demon fury bar like cazy. The cost of restoring your demon fury cost 30% of your HP bar (knowing that kannas are squishy). They already nerf the buffs of kanna like crazy. Those are plenty of reason why they shouldn't nerf kishin.
  • TransformingThunderTransformingThunder
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    edited January 2018
    KidoYaMing wrote: »
    KidoYaMing wrote: »
    I would have to say no, since kishin is the only think that makes kanna any good. It got nerfed on buffs already. Even though kanna has two binds and one barrier, just asking one bind takes almost all its demon fury. Plus its bossing skill drains like crazy. Honestly, they should just give the whole reboot server an extra buff on exp and meso increase/item drop rate. Ever since the did the reboot nerf with meso farm it made it so hard to make meso.

    Again is there any other reasoning besides "it's the only thing that makes kanna good"? I don't that's a valid reason to keep it, again the same argument that people made w/ jett

    Here let me ask you then, why should one class go down hill just because people want a buff? Its like you playing your main and spending so much time powering it up but then it gets nerfs to the point where one no one want to use it no more. They take away all your useful skill and left you with a useless char that sits in the back of your characters. I bring this point because im sure as soon as kishin is gone that is what it will turn too. Even thought jets disconnect with a certain skill, its not the same as making a class completely useless. Kishin only has two binds that kills its demon fury(each bind 80 DF, kanna original 100DF unless you waste hyper skill points points to get up to 150DF) and makes you basic attack. Its bossing skill has drains its demon fury bar like cazy. The cost of restoring your demon fury cost 30% of your HP bar (knowing that kannas are squishy). They already nerf the buffs of kanna like crazy. Those are plenty of reason why they shouldn't nerf kishin.

    There are a lot of things wrong with so let me hit you with a question, do any of these actually garner reasons not to nerf kishin? The answer in short is no.

    In essence kish is a game breaking skill. There's absolutely no way to justify a game breaking mechanic so kanna stays slightly more useful though she still has not one, but two innate binds and her flower aura auras.

    There's a reason why kanna in jms does not have a spawn increase, also if kanna was in kms why there'd definitely not be a spawn increase.

    There's also reason why most players have at least 1 kanna if not 2 in reboot, and why that's the only character that they can farm on efficently [or to be forced to make another one to buff spawn so they can farm efficiently]. Why would I have to use make another account so that I can buff the spawn on my my main or the current character I'd like to farm on to be efficient, or either would be forced to play the class <<<Hence game breaking. There's no other game I can think of that will make me a play a specific class or character in order to adequately farm the only currency I can use to further or better my gear progression.

    Just thinking on the idealism of balancing of reboot and kanna would have to revolve around kishin and that doesn't make sense. Again I'd either need a second computer or BREAK TOS to have kishin which is imbalanced and unfair to players (that doesn't make logical sense).

    Balancing kanna with kishin also doesn't make sense. Even if she was balanced "perfectly" lets say (dmg wise) then kishin would already make her 20x better because of the spawn rate buff, and that again makes her imbalanced.

    If we want balance we honestly should just nerf kishin and start balancing kanna and drops from there so it's fair for all players that makes sense for both kanna players and players who are farming.

    Hell if we keep kishin might as well bring 0 cd starfall back,If kanna can have kishin a game breaking mechanic why can't jetts, and can phantom's joker be completely iframed then, I mean might as well? /shrug

    And again if you have an actual reasoning why kanna should have kishin spawn rate buff at all besides it makes her good or useful (again same reasoning jetts had for 0 cd starfall) then hit me up, but I've still to see an actual logical reasoning.