Bug type:
Can't progress further. Broken system for new players. Players requires to keep suicide and killing themselves at level 100-120 before they can get stronger to play at higher level because mesos get limited when players farm at low level monsters 10 level difference and even get 0 mesos. While the damage need on higher level gets a lot higher. It is simply impossible to progress. It gets worse since Singapore deletion. And will get even worse if Nexon decide to delete Malaysia and nerf/remove kishin before they fix the unbalance/ broken/bug in their game play system. A lot of low level players is quitting and leaving the game
Brief bug summary:
Maplestory team need to address the real issue behind everything that has happened regarding Kishin, Singapore and Malaysia. It seems that you (Nexon) didn’t really get it. I want to especially criticise The Maplestory Gameplay Designer Team that is full of brainless idiot who doesn’t even understand their own game. Don’t remove the Malaysia until you provide solution to the “Bottleneck” I will mention more below on the detail part. Otherwise you will break the game. It is very hard to repair when the glass has already been broken. You are moving toward a path that will end your own game. Dead end. I will explain through my writings below so the team will understand the frustration of players, especially Reboot server players since we depend on mesos farming so much. More and more low level/new players leaving the game/quitting the game until hell break lose and all the high level quit too.
The main issue behind all of this is NOT Kishin, malaysia or Singapore. You address the wrong point. The Main point is we have no way to farm enough mesos to progress if you delete Malaysia and Singapore. It is because you have limit the farming to 10 levels. More than 10 level difference, the mesos rate will get reduced until 40 levels difference where it reaches null /zero. It is somekind of bottleneck for new players/low level players.
The one that will get hit the hardest from the removal of Singapore and Malaysia will be new players to mid game players. The nerf or removal of kishin will hit all players.
This what create a broken system, Unless you create a farming ways to players. Otherwise, you kill your own players.
Evenmore, even with kishin, it still requires a very long time of farming to reach end game. Without kishin, you simply forcing out your players to quit the game.
More details:
To understand this, you need to calculate how much mesos does player need to reach mid game. I will divide players strength into 6 stages of improvement.
Stage 1, to reach level 160 and have averagely 400k+ damage range clean to be able to 1-3 hits kill at level 160-200 monsters.
Stage 2, to reach level 200 and have averagely 1 mill damage range so players can 1-3 hit kill at Vanishing Journey maplv 200+.
Stage 3 to reach around 3 mill damage range clean at level 220 so players can 1-3 hit kill at lachlein level 220+ map.
Stage 4 is to reach around 7 mill+ range clean (25k main stats) so players can 1 hit kill Arcana level 230+ map.
Stage 5 to reach Averagely 23mill + damage range clean (40k+ main stats) to join Hard lucid party.
Stage 6 to reach 28mill+ range clean to join into top hard bosses such as hard Will.
My calculation below might be only estimation numbers, but it should give you brief idea on what I meant. Roughly to reach stage 1, Players need to have roughly around 9% main stats. This is impossible to reach without players doing meso farming for around 50hours+. Coz at level 1-160, players will only gain around 20 millions mesos perhour. But I won’t explain much coz to this point, it is still not impossibly hard.
Next, to reach Stage 2. Players need roughly around 15%+ main stats potential with good combination of midgame equip+ end game equips. Lets say to get 1 equip to legendary requires averagely 700millions mesos. To Roughly get around 15%+ main stats, player need total around 800mill mesos. We have total 21 equips that is potable/ can be given potential. So in total, we will need around 21x 700mill = 14,7 Billions to reach Just level 2. I haven’t calculated the need of Drop gear and Mesos gear. If I calculate it, the amount will become tremendous.
Now, we will talk on the situation where players are without Kishin, Malaysia farming map and Singapore farming map. Malaysia and Singapore are considered farming map, because with even the lowest damage range possible and trash equips, players can still 1-2 hit kill and farm mesos at those map and gain average 100mill mesos perhour. Lets say without farming, GM can try to raise a char from level 1 to level 160 without any help or carry or farming. When you reach level 160, you will need around 6 hits to kill 1 monster level 160. That is because players will only have around 120k damage range clean.
At that time, if players try to push through to level 200 with 120k damage range at level 180sh, it is a super hard mission. And Once reach level 200, it will not become easier, instead it will become a lot harder because at level 200, we can farm the lowest on monsters level 190. Below that, players will get mesos reduced or even more gain no mesos at all. And it will bring players back to the main problem, they need to farm mesos and become stronger before they can progress through. Nexon can try test to level up from level 1-level 250 without farming and try to kill normal lucid. It is simply impossible. You design the game the need to farm mesos but you don’t provide/very little means to farm mesos.
At level 160, if player farm with very low damage and without kishin, they will gain around 15-20million mesos perhour. To farm 14.7 billions to reach 1 mill damage range clean with 20 million mesos perhour gain will require 14.700.000.000 / 20.000.000 = 735 hours. My calculation might be wrong coz I only calculate using my own experience + intuition. But I believe Nexon able to calculate
And to farm those, players only have 2 choice. 1st choice to keep farming with main char while it will level up but once it reach level 200+, It will reach bottleneck since monsters will getting stronger and stronger and the situation will become worse at high level with low damage range. And it gets worse since maplestory applies 40 level range to reduce mesos drop. Below 10 levels, Monsters will start dropping less mesos and 40 levels, they drop no mesos at all. So at level 200, you can only farm at lv 190+ monsters. The higher your level get, the longer you will kill. The longer it takes for players to kill, the less mesos they can get. because the mesos increase per level can't be compared with the mesos need to increase the strength of our character
2nd Option is to make new char and farm using other char. But once again, to make a new char, we need to raise its damage using mesos. And there is never enough mesos. Once the char reach level 160, the char will also face the same situation, low damage and strength to kill level 160+ monsters. 1 char from level 1-160 probably will only net players around 100 million mesos. But once they reach level 160, they need billions. Even if players keep making new chars until it has 40 chars with level 160+, they probably will only gain 40x100 = 4 billions.
The only way is to create around level 100-120 and farm at any maps with around level 100-120 and keep dieing/ suicide. That is a stupid game system where new players requires to keep killing themselves again and again, hundred of times until they gain enough mesos to strenghten their chars. And even worse, if you delete kishin, it will even take longer to get to decent damage. For new players who doesn’t even know the strategy to suicide will find this game so broken and simply quit. What a current stupid and broken gameplay.
That is the main reason why farming at Malaysia/ Singapore is very famous, coz you don’t need damage/ very low level damage to 1 hit kill them and farm there. That is also the reason why player do Suicide farming. Suicide farming is when players keep killing their char in order to reduce their experience to delay their level up or not to level up. Because if they level up, they will reach a bottleneck where players hardly can kill. This is a broken system created by brainless gameplay designer in maplestory Team.
Moreover, when player reach stage 3, where they need 3 mill + range clean, I estimate player will need around 21%+ main stats on all of their 21 equips. That will requires around 20 Billions totals. At this level, players will need to also get drop gear. Otherwise, farming nodes will be a cancer/hell. You can ask all players, to reach max level nodes with normal farming without Drop gear will be super hard. Especially without kishin. Without kishin and drop gear, player will only get around 1 node perhour. You can calculate how ridiciliously long for someone to farm without drop gear and kishin to max nodes level. At this time, if you have the damage and the mesos gear, player can get around 150mill mesos perhour.
To Shorten my explanation, I will skip and explain straight to stage 5-6. This is a point where players need a tremendous mesos farming. Players need to have 30%+main stats on potential (21 equips), possibly 21 stars on all equips.( 14 equips) and good flames. To gain 30% main stats, each equip need around 4 billions. In total, for all 21 equips to reach 30%+ main stats requires 4 billionsx21=84 Billions mesos. To get 1 equip to 21 stars, Averagely requires around 10 billions. To have 14 equips with 21 stars reuqires 10x14 = 140 billions mesos. To reach all of the requirements requires 84+140 billions = 224 billions. This is still not included flaming. At level 230+ with enough damage to 1 hit kill, players can get around 200mill perhour . to farm 224billions will require 224.000.000.000 / 200.000.000 = 1.120 hours of farming. This is still rought estimation. In real, sometimes you blow up equips, the RNG gives you badluck and you need a lot more than what I stated above ( on the last star forcing event, I blew up 6 meister ring and burned 20 billions mesos and I still have 0 star meister ring). Most of time Maplestory RNG is ridicilous. Average most of the time only works for 1% of the players.
But, lets just use the 1.120 hours of farming time. This is only farming time. Not included your time to do Arcane force dailies, event, bossing, starforcing/cubing time, levelling mule and other things. But if someone farming roughly 3 hours a day, it will takes them 1.120 hours of farming. I want to challenge each of the GM/ Nexon team to farm 1.120 hours long per person and let us see how many of you can do it. Double it coz it is only farming time solely, not included other things. And this is only the lowest estimation.
In short:
It is not about Singapore or Malaysia. It is not about Kishin. It is about the need of players to have a mesos farming way since now, we have more need of mesos after flame and star force comes around. But instead you delete Singapore and malaysia, and even worse going to remove or delete kishin, without providing us solution before that. Don’t remove anything before you provide solutions to the bottleneck I mentioned above
Possible Solutions :
1. Provide us a similar or even better place to farm mesos. Or a new ways to farm mesos that can give us more mesos. I believe after that, the storm will calm down. We don’t care about Singapore or Malaysia. We only care how to gain the mesos after we have no more malaysia/singapore and no more kishin/kishin nerf.
2. Remove the 40 levels limiter on drop. No more mesos reduce if we farm on any level monsters
3. Increase the reward from levelling up. Nowadays with all the boost from star force, potential and flame, lvelling up reward us with too little gain. 5 main stats per level while players can have 45k main stats at end game sounds too low, isn’t it?
4. Increase the boost from link skills and legion. Same reason as number 3
5. Reduce dependability on starforcing, potential and flame. Since new starforce and flame comes around, we need more mesos to farm. We depend on star force and flame. Why not boost the link skills/legion instead to reduce the need to farm more mesos? You increase the need of mesos but you put mesos drop restriction and trying to remove farming maps and kishin
6. Reduce the cube cost, starforce and flame cost
7. Provide another means to make our char strong without mesos farming
8. Increase mesos rewards from event.
Steps to reproduce
1. Create level 1 char
2. Try to level up to level 250 without doing suicide. You will stop at level 200 or 210 coz you simply need too many hits before you can kill 1 monster because you are far away to weak. If you try to farm on level 190 monsters, you get even less mesos. even if you try farming at level 160 monsters, you will get no mesos at all.
3. When you reach bottleneck, you can try farm using another char, but after you reach around level 140ish, you will reach taht bottleneck barrier and hardly can progress further
4. You can only get strong by killing yourself over and over
Character name:
RedNightW
Character level:
245
Character job:
NightWalker
World name:
Reboot
Date and time of the incident:
Since you limit the mesos drop by near level, followed by Singapore removal and it will get worse if, in the future, Nexon decide to delete Malaysia and remove/nerf kishin
Comments
However I want to counter your experiences with my own.
I have never used Kishin, Malaysia or Singapore to farm for mesos.
My highest level character is level 230, at 84%.
I have never felt the need to farm for mesos.
I never felt like my character was too weak to continue.
I have never suicided with my character.
My personal experience is that none of these things that players think are needed, actually are.
You shouldn't use range to determine how well a character can do. I didn't hit 1m range until around level 210, for example, and I was still able to do just fine.
I never felt like quitting. If you feel too weak, like you're killing too slow at higher level areas, try going in with a party.
People complain that the game is a solo game, but when presented with a chance to party up, they just complain the game is too hard.
tl;dr:
Just focus on grinding, you'll get there without farming. Make a party if you need to.
But it seems like they've shifted into high gear with the changes.
While I personally enjoy these changes, I know I'm in the minority. I'm curious as to why they're targeting a player base like myself.
Ultimately they need to do what attracts the most players, so I hope they aren't just driving players away with this.
A better alternative would have been to keep slowly adjusting towards the game style they wanted while introducing or showing new ways to replace the old.
While I do agree with the changes Nexon has done, I have to wonder if they aren't indeed killing off their main player base.
I agree with you, my take on this is players developed a high dependency on kishin, it's like a drug to them. I by no means would advocate for the removal, but it goes to show there's a real addiction to it, especially when it's just for convenience.
This was unnecessary and rude; keep your criticisms constructive.
You had a detailed post, please don't ruin things by breaking the rules and acting uncivil.
Mob count increase is now 0. Nerfed from 1.7x -> 1.5x when frenzy was introduced. Now 1.5x->0x.
Spawn rate frequency will depend upon the number of kishin on the map. JMS rates were about ~7s with 0, ~5s with 1, ~4s with 2, and ~3.5s with 3+ (may not be reflective of GMS as I don't know the exact spawn time numbers but we can assume similar % decrease per kishin in map).
If these are the proposed changes, I really can't imagine how this would remotely be healthier for the game unless it's just flat out removed. It looks like it would just add 3x the amount of bots per map/channel/world.
What with GMS' botting issue and the fact that we foolishly released a p2w item from tms called frenzy totem, be really cautious about how you go about this one Nexon.
Although it isn't concrete, it was stated that if kishin changes were implemented, it wouldn't be another regions version. But it's not 100% thatll be the case
2- for mesos need, it'd be nice if we get sheilding scrolls from events and starforce discount more often because we boom items we burn billions for few stars on tyrants and way more for +12 star items ...... we get them destroyed too...
3- giving us weekly 2x like before.
4- more stable servers
just provide us with alternatives .
hackers dont put a single effort in anything , if kishin is blocked , class is nerfed its all good they will vaccum mobs and drops anyways .
for normal players it's a must. since items get changed, from set to another, items break over and over.new challenging contents come way faster & becoming impossible for their current abilities .
mechanics and cannoneers could control the spawn rate very good ,yes
There actually used to be a rune that did this. Rune of Hordes. It was removed from the game though.
I'd love to see it return.
I'm not sure I like the idea of 2x weekly, the lag used to be awful with it. It seems stark contrast to number 4.
Creating a dedicated time for people to play in just bottle necks all people who depend on these things to login at the same time.
The lag it creates kills the server and doesn't exactly provide a "stable" game environment.
I'd much rather see something along the lines of 3x coupons that expire in one week.
This way people can decide when they want to grind.
"Just provide us with alternatives."
It would be nice to see more instanced maps that are designed for party play.
There used to be one in the Ice Drake rooms, as well as one (still open) in the Stone Colossus Theme dungeon.
These maps are huge and impossible for a player at the correct level to handle alone.
yes i agree with 3x couposn & if they stretch the time of 2x duration players will have better chances too.
Also yes we got party areas but they are not instanced like you say yea we used to have 30-1 hour duration private maps! at drakes-pigs at naultilis too? that was marvellous realy
My own experience is:
Haven't played the game for 7 years (had a bad experience with items being stolen and no response from support about it).
Started a new character in the Mega Burning event. Have now got it to level 200. Non-Reboot world.
I don't think I have collected more than ~100mil mesos. Went Alchemy, so I have not been spending mesos on pots. Still using Frozen gear, so haven't spend mesos on gear either.
Tried Starforcing a Pensalir equip up to 10 stars to see if it would be better than Frozen. Cost me 20mil mesos. Doesn't look like it will be better than Frozen unless I can get it to 15 stars. I can't afford to 10 star a full Pensalir set, so forget 15 stars.
If I hadn't Mega Burnt the character, I'd estimate I would have collected ~200mil at most (probably less, since those skipped areas are low level).
My character is currently in a situation where my level is too high for the gear I have. I probably need to spend a week (or more) grinding at level 190 stuff in Kritias to get enough mesos for upgrading better gear, which I have to do boss runs to get anyway.
I probably could have done better if I had spent some time looking at levelling/equipment guides, but I've been too busy and I just want to enjoy the game, not meta the game. Guides take away the fun of exploring and learning things yourself.
Level 200 is not endgame anymore, but it looks like it is still stuck at endgame economy grind. Therefore I am not surprised that there are so many people using Kishin/Malaysia/Bots to grind for mesos.
Getting to level 200 used to require much more xp, but that has been getting reduced over the years. Have the upgrade meso costs or drop rates been changed at all during that time?
what world you playing in?
http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/14804/non-leeching-perma-beginner-type-guide/p1
As I tried to play MapleSEA, THMS (and EMS before migration up to v.117) - the monster spawn rate is dynamically changed per map by the system.
I even don't know how to explain that but it seems the gameplay experience in MapleSEA is quite stable and they have Kanna with Kishin there. The gameplay experience in EMS up to v.117 was mostly the same to MapleSEA (including its content).
I think GMS should adopt the common features (including the dynamic change of monster spawn rate by the system) which are available in KMS and other regions and these will make the game more stable and balanced.
that would be very good yes! spawn rate -drop and exp increase without kanna dependancy. ++ just like the new (Fairy bros Daily gift ) from msea!.
Its a shame the Maple Guide isn't that good about rewards at times. Many places seem to be totally missing from it.
@Fuhraek : What server are you at? Reboot server? This post is more relevant to reboot server, because i don;t know what is the situation at normal server. And also, I have tried several chars levelling from level 1-200, nomally i got to around 150k-200k damage range. And that is with a very efficient way to use my mesos on enhanicing. For new players who doesn;t know anything, who start this game fresh,i would say they will barely can get to 100k. Unless i get others carried me with every bosses. Otherwise, it is almost impossible. and when you hit level 210, you barely reach 1 mill range. That is not even enough for hellux. Then at what level will you supposedly be able to kill hellux? and Also at what level will you be able to kill Cra? chaos Vellum? Hard magnus? Damien? Lotus? Lucid?
And if you have 1 mill damage range at levle 210-220, you will need a long time to kill 1 monster and it leads to a very low mesos perhour. probbaly can only gain 20 mill perhour. Comparing with the needs to Star force, to potential and flame, farming at 20 mill perhour gonna take you forever. and as you farming at 20 mill mesos eprhour, your level will keep rising and you reach level 230 with probably only around 2 mill damage and level 240 with only 3 mill range. and with 3 mill range you barely can kill chaos Vellum. And you are stuck. Because if you kill monsters lower than 10 levels of yours, your mesos gain will reduce.
That was what i meant by bottleneck. A series of system in game that will push new players way too harsh that mostlikely leading 90% of new players quitting the game before they actually can Kill early /weak bosses such as Hellux or cra and enjoy the game. With 20 million per hour you barely can buy 2 black cubes. So to get 1 cube, you need to farm around 1 hour. Calculate with the amount of cube you need for 1 equip. It is ridicilious to farm 1 hour for just 1 cube. That is also why I suggesting for them to provide players another way to farm mesos before they actually deleted the only ways for players to improve.
Even with malaysia/singapore + Kishin, it will still take years. Take my experience as example. I have been playing Maplestory for almost 2 years. With Malaysia/Singapore + Kishin, I barely can solo Chaos vellum after 1 year 2 months before flame update. And I played quite active, almost 4hours+ perday. That is minimum. Most of the time, i play 6 hours+. Without malaysia/Singapore + kishin, I estimate will probably take 3-4 years before someone can solo chaos Vellum. Without, will take probably 6 years before someone can Kill Damien/Lotus. And probably 8-10 years before someone can join lucid team. and even worse for hard lucid and normal will. They can wait until they have wife and children until they can actually join and kill hard lucid and normal will
And now, you stuck because you can't farm at lower level monsters. Coz without killing yourself, you will reach higher level with stronger monsters.
Of course this doesn't apply to 0.1% players who plays 10 hours+ perday. They can still farm 20 million mesos perhour and get strong faster.. But of course, we don;t want this game only have 0.1% players while probably 70% quitting the game coz of this bottleneck while the rest struggling whether to continue playing (coz a lot of players and friends have quitted the game) or simply quit this game and move to another game.
@HousePet. No changes on mesos and drop. But before, even after you reach level 200, you can still go to level 140 map and farm mesos there if you need mesos to make you strong. After you are strong enough, then can continue to higher level. But few months ago, Mapleapplied new update. if you are level 200, if you farm monsters lower than 10 levels which is level 190, you will get mesos reduced by the system. And the mesos reduce gets worse the farther the level difference between you and the monsters. And when it reach 40 levels lower which is level 160, you will get no mesos at all aka 0 mesos. This is the bottleneck i have been talking about.
Buuuuuut, let's postponed the conversation for now, since Maplestory just announce that they will hold the nerf of kishin or malaysia. Lets hope they provide solution first. or a new suggestion for me, they can do a chain of update. but they have to explain this series of update. Such as removal of malaysia, but after 1 week, they will boost the mesos drop. This is another option if it is not possible to apply all the solution at once. But if they announce it beforehand, at least player understand that in few weeks Maplestory will provide a solution to the matter.
In Short, I want Maplestory to read my long writing as a support as I love and fully support this game. I didn't do this with bad intention. Otherwise i won;t bother spending my time and effort explaining everything. Consider it as my support to the team.
I have never used Kishin to farm. I'm level 231 and I have well over 2m range. I am not stuck. I can solo all of CRA easily.
It is not the "only way" it's just the only way "meta" players want to do it.
I was able to solo all of CRA after about 6 months of actually focusing on my character. (It was already level 205 or so, but I was ignoring it.)
I only play about 2-4 hours a day. I will remind you, I have never relied on Kishin for farming. I tried it out once, never bothered again.
I have never had to suicide on my character to progress. (Isn't that kind of the opposite of progressing?)
I don't have to fight anything outside my level range (I fight +4 mobs for most EXP)
I should also add there are plenty of other GMS exclusive things I purposely avoid because I feel they're OP.
I actively go out of my way to make the game harder and I have never had problems with meso farming.