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Make Kishin, or its effect, Pay-to-use.

MikuloverMikulover
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edited November 2018 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
This is but a simple suggestion that would make kishin less profitable for the greatest evil of all time in maple, the botters, while still letting the majority of the population enjoy it, now without having to lvl a mule on a second PC to 225.

This suggestion is just to give an idea of what I mean. The numbers can be changed however, and it could be changed to only be like this in reboot since real servers still have frenzy, but simply put it's something like this...

Make Kishin, or just a skill with a spawnboost like it, a skillbook/node/decent skill that you can obtain on any character after having spent at least 5k NX prepaid in the cash shop.
Before you cry p2w, meso kannas buying pets, pet snacks and pet skills were already p2w in that regard. A small CD on this skill, like 30 seconds, could also be added to prevent over-spamming it.

Sure, this wont change any issue the server has with the skill, but it would make the mass-account makers unable to use it without spending tons of money, while letting people without a second computer enjoy the benefits of kishin without being at the mercy of the 2-PC overlords.

I really dont want to part ways with the wonders of kishin and its spawnrate in Reboot, so I hope whatever route Nexon takes its the route of least destruction, and this is one of them in my opinion. I think very few would value the time it takes to lvl a kanna mule to 225 over spending 5$.


Comments

  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited November 2018
    What of the people who play reboot because they don't have money to spend on nx? The ones who get by with a cash tab crammed full of black heart jrs?

    And if the bots can get around the anti-hack, and if hackers can obtain the monolith skill(frenzy totem) on reboot by way of packet injection or whatever, what makes you think they couldn't find a way to skirt "please pay $5 to kishin"? All this would do is unfairly shaft legitimate players, like practically every other "bot-curtailing" change that's been made in the past couple years.
    FuhreakShadEight
  • MikuloverMikulover
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    edited November 2018
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    What of the people who play reboot because they don't have money to spend on nx? The ones who get by with a cash tab crammed full of black heart jrs?

    And if the bots can get around the anti-hack, and if hackers can obtain the monolith skill(frenzy totem) on reboot by way of packet injection or whatever, what makes you think they couldn't find a way to skirt "please pay $5 to kishin"? All this would do is unfairly shaft legitimate players, like practically every other "bot-curtailing" change that's been made in the past couple years.

    I already said it with the pets for meso kannas as an example, also, did you not read my last part? In what part of the world do you have 2 computers, the time to lvl a mule to 225 on maplestory, but not the leisure to use 5$ on said videogame?

    Of course I make this suggestion assuming hacking something like a frenzy into reboot isn't as simple as you make it sound. Also you make it sound like only F2P players are legit with your wording. Much more players would get access to the benefits of Kishin with this since it is easier to spend 5$ than buy a new computer.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited November 2018
    Not everyone goes out and buys a new computer solely to kishin themselves. Nor does everyone just up and throw out their old computer if they get a new one. Hell, some people probably run a second maple client in a virtual machine. It's not as cut and dry as you'd like to think it is, and I see absolutely no reason to introduce more methods by which to paywall parts of the game.
    Fuhreak
  • MikuloverMikulover
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    edited November 2018
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Not everyone goes out and buys a new computer solely to kishin themselves. Nor does everyone just up and throw out their old computer if they get a new one. Hell, some people probably run a second maple client in a virtual machine. It's not as cut and dry as you'd like to think it is, and I see absolutely no reason to introduce more methods by which to paywall parts of the game.

    Well, if we could have both this, and let kannas keep their kishin then we would both be happy, but I made this suggestion with Kannas rework in mind. Of course I dont want Kishin to be removed from Kanna either, I am just thinking of options to lessen the dmg it does on non-botters on reboot, and a paywall seemed like the easiest way to lessen the over-use. And Nexon gets money so they win too.
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
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    edited November 2018
    Mikulover wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Not everyone goes out and buys a new computer solely to kishin themselves. Nor does everyone just up and throw out their old computer if they get a new one. Hell, some people probably run a second maple client in a virtual machine. It's not as cut and dry as you'd like to think it is, and I see absolutely no reason to introduce more methods by which to paywall parts of the game.

    Well, if we could have both this, and let kannas keep their kishin then we would both be happy, but I made this suggestion with Kannas rework in mind. Of course I dont want Kishin to be removed from Kanna either, I am just thinking of options to lessen the dmg it does on non-botters on reboot, and a paywall seemed like the easiest way to lessen the over-use. And Nexon gets money so they win too.

    I play Reboot. This would hurt so many Kanna mains its not worth fathoming. Some of them like to play it for the boost in training, others enjoy it for Haku and being a general support unit. Most of the community I know plays because we are in college, or just can't throw money at the game. Ultimately botters can get around just about anything you throw at them besides ultra patching all the holes in the game (which is a long ways away). So the Paywall will hurt honest players a lot more than the dishonest hackers. One of my kanna friends in particular, takes great pride in being able to help people out with Kishin. It makes them feel great inside and ofc, it makes me happy if I can get some kishin since I don't have a mule high enough level, or a second computer that works well enough to be able to kish myself. You might be surprised that some of us have to rely on Kanna mains/alt mains for Kishin because...sometimes second computers don't work, or can't connect to wifi consistently, or you aren't quite skilled to run a Virtual machine.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited November 2018
    Let's make the whole game Pay To Play.
    That should keep the botters from making accounts as fast as the GMs can ban them.
  • MikuloverMikulover
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    edited November 2018
    AKradian wrote: »
    Let's make the whole game Pay To Play.
    That should keep the botters from making accounts as fast as the GMs can ban them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    My goal in this is to keep kishin's spawn effect in some way,shape or form in this game IF they decide to gut it. Dont need to strawman me.
    That said p2p periods in f2p games are sometimes pretty quiet and nice.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited November 2018
    Mikulover wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Let's make the whole game Pay To Play.
    That should keep the botters from making accounts as fast as the GMs can ban them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    My goal in this is to keep kishin's spawn effect in some way,shape or form in this game IF they decide to gut it. Dont need to strawman me.
    That said p2p periods in f2p games are sometimes pretty quiet and nice.

    It's not a straw man if you state your intent in the first sentence of your post.
    Mikulover wrote: »
    This is but a simple suggestion that would make kishin less profitable for the greatest evil of all time in maple, the botters

    A strawman would be something like going into the cash shop suggestion thread and saying to someone who asked that a specific pet be brought back in the future "WHY DON'T WE JUST MAKE THE WHOLE GAME PAY TO PLAY"
  • MikuloverMikulover
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    edited November 2018
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Mikulover wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Let's make the whole game Pay To Play.
    That should keep the botters from making accounts as fast as the GMs can ban them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    My goal in this is to keep kishin's spawn effect in some way,shape or form in this game IF they decide to gut it. Dont need to strawman me.
    That said p2p periods in f2p games are sometimes pretty quiet and nice.

    It's not a straw man if you state your intent in the first sentence of your post.
    Mikulover wrote: »
    This is but a simple suggestion that would make kishin less profitable for the greatest evil of all time in maple, the botters

    A strawman would be something like going into the cash shop suggestion thread and saying to someone who asked that a specific pet be brought back in the future "WHY DON'T WE JUST MAKE THE WHOLE GAME PAY TO PLAY"

    And I suggested making a skill Nexon got on the chopping block to a more restricted version so it at least gets to stay in some way/shape/form, in this case through verifying yourself by buying a bit of NX. Since my intent was not in any way to make it pay2play then it is a strawman. I understand that you disagree with me but calling it not a strawman is not true.

    My idea might not be the brightest and I would happily believe in yours if you got a better one.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited November 2018
    "Hey since you guys might be removing it anyway, why not paywall it?"

    And we come back to bots being able to bypass that sort of thing, ultimately solving nothing and giving players one more stumbling block.
    Petalmagic
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited November 2018
    Mikulover wrote: »
    A small CD on this skill, like 30 seconds, could also be added to prevent over-spamming it.

    so why the $5 tax then? people mass creating these accounts would already be hit either way.
  • AznboiEAznboiE
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    edited November 2018
    A better idea would be to have a merchant sell a time-limited frenzy totem for a big amount of mesos, like 100mil for a day's usage. That'd stop players from selling service or at least bottle neck their crazy rates and make selling the totem itself much less valuable. At least it's not pay walled via currency paid with real currency, and it will lessen the blow that Frenzy Service is doing to the current economy. People would still want to spin the wheel for a frenzy totem because eventually 100mil a day for 24 hour frenzy service does add up and one would rather be willing to chance $x amount to get a permanent one just to stop paying 100mil daily rather than to abuse it by giving others a costly 1-time service that usually pays by the hour or by the usage.

    Though one problem I see is that within a day's time a person could be selling service for like 30mil an hour and gain more than enough to buy another totem for the next day but also you could get more out of it by paying 100mil to buy your own and have it last all day rather than buy service from someone else unless you're time and meso limited to only being able to afford a few hours of frenzy service instead of buying the totem. So basically this is only a problem if the price is set too high and all you want is a few hours of this item's effect.

    Another problem would be making the totem too easily available for everyone. Most people who need it will be 200+ while many would still use it to gain a boost at lower areas and kanna bots will easilly boost their own leveling by using a frenzy totem. If we were to make this an item available from a certain content area, say commerci and make it cost 100 Denaro instead of 100mil mesos, we could increase the content's popularity plus make it a hurdle for bots because Denaro can only be obtained from doing commerci daily runs it will also prevent people from buying one every single day because it's impractical to get 100 Denaro in a day unless you saved up several denaro over the course of weeks and months just to have the totem be available for a week.
    Mikulover
  • pepepepe
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    edited November 2018
    The way I see it, Nexon simply wants Kishin's current spawn effect gone. Just gone.

    They stated that their network buffers are stressed due to constant mass kishin from all servers. Whether or not you accept this premise, it is clear that what they are really trying to say is 'we would like the spawn effect from kishin removed'. Why else would they come up with a solution to amplify EXP and mesos instead? Therefore I do not see how any of these solutions actually answer the question nexon is posing: How can we make kishin function without its current spawn modifier.
    Fuhreak
  • MikuloverMikulover
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    edited November 2018
    pepe wrote: »
    The way I see it, Nexon simply wants Kishin's current spawn effect gone. Just gone.

    They stated that their network buffers are stressed due to constant mass kishin from all servers. Whether or not you accept this premise, it is clear that what they are really trying to say is 'we would like the spawn effect from kishin removed'. Why else would they come up with a solution to amplify EXP and mesos instead? Therefore I do not see how any of these solutions actually answer the question nexon is posing: How can we make kishin function without its current spawn modifier.

    I think if they make Kishin work on drop/EXP it would either be lackluster and/or be compared to HS, since it would just be a mapwide version of it. Would Frenzy also get this treatment I wonder?
  • pepepepe
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    edited November 2018
    Mikulover wrote: »
    pepe wrote: »
    The way I see it, Nexon simply wants Kishin's current spawn effect gone. Just gone.

    They stated that their network buffers are stressed due to constant mass kishin from all servers. Whether or not you accept this premise, it is clear that what they are really trying to say is 'we would like the spawn effect from kishin removed'. Why else would they come up with a solution to amplify EXP and mesos instead? Therefore I do not see how any of these solutions actually answer the question nexon is posing: How can we make kishin function without its current spawn modifier.

    I think if they make Kishin work on drop/EXP it would either be lackluster and/or be compared to HS, since it would just be a mapwide version of it. Would Frenzy also get this treatment I wonder?

    We don't even know the rates they had in mind so we cannot judge its potential to deliver equivalent outcomes just yet (plus it was stated to be a temporary solution). And no, Frenzy will likely not get this treatment since this a Kishin only directive. In fact, there is no point invoking Frenzy into this whole debate, Nexon specifically focused on the lag aspect of spawn modifiers in their memo because they knew it will exempt Frenzy totem from entering the discussion owing to the rarity of the item (and thus the minimal effect it has on the network buffer).
  • H2SO4H2SO4
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    edited November 2018
    J main kanna and im fine if kish is gone provided giving me a good bossing skill. All im asking for.
  • fidgetspinnerACEfidgetspinnerACE
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    The healthiest way for all this to end is to remove kishin and boost exp/mesos/loot/rewards to other areas of the game. Like, oh idk, P A R T Y Q U E S T S . Add more guild skills that would increase rewards when bossing with guildmates or something. Anything like that. Changing kishin in any other way but removing it is just side-stepping the irrevocable problem that I'm sure Nexon has tried to make work for a long time now.
    Kyupikon