After the recent level cap increase, we've noticed that some players are concerned about the rank competition between Reboot and the regular servers.
Since this seems to be the case, we've decided to hold a discussion to hear the community's feedback.
The rankings are currently separated into three tabs: Both, Reboot, and Non-Reboot.
Please let us know what you think about the existence of the "Both" tab and why you believe it should or should not stay.
Please be civil and respect everyone's opinions.
Please note that the purpose of this discussion is to solely collect feedback. No decisions are guaranteed to be made.
People have been asking for a separation of Reboot and Regular server rankings for a while, I honestly could care less, since I'm not rushing to 275, but Ill go with what I've heard a lot in the past. Separate them.
First: I realize this isn't the main topic of the thread but it's absolutely ridiculous that there's such a huge gap in exp rates between reboot and normal servers. You need to address this. It doesn't have to be perfectly equal because that'll be impossible but it's a complete joke that the "pay2win" server is currently pay2lose.
Second:
I had a quick look at the top rankings and here's the results for day 2.
1-8 reboot
9 - bacon
10-15 reboot
16 - bera
17 - reboot
18 - scania
19-31 reboot
32 - bera
33 - reboot
34 - scania
35-42 reboot
43-44 bera
45 - reboot
46 - bera
47-50 reboot
41 of the top 50 are reboot. It's very difficult to account for personal circumstances, choices, etc but with the same level of effort and equal kill rates reboot levels more than 2x as fast as normal servers. This means that we should expect to see this gap become even worse -- unless as I suggested people simply choose not to go for the top ranks.
Given this it's hard to imagine what the point of the "both" tab even is. Both just means reboot, only reboot can win unless they all simply choose not to level.
We have "Reboot" ranks for racecars, and "Non-reboot" for cyclists. What's the purpose of seeing them both together exactly?
based on the current rankings already it's plain that reboot and main servers are not on equal footing as long as main servers don't have cash coupons. The current top non reboot player Seallord played for something like 30 hours straight when the servers went up and there are still 5+ reboot players ahead of him now.
I agree on removal of both section of the ranking.
It's currently too unfair on how reboot can gain experience over twice as fast as a player in regular server. We've had players going on all day for 20 hrs+ yet can't keep up with someone who does less time in reboot
If main servers could use cs 2x's it'd be evenly matched i feel considering i only get about 100~120b/hr at current void 3, ontop of that non-stop grinding since patch released and it only got me that far tbh
i say split them completely
Atleast make it to where non-reboot is default, not both because reboot has an unfair advantage
The rankings should be separate. Reboot can obviously level up much faster than any non-reboot player can. Perhaps there would be more of a competition if non-reboot could use cs 2x coupons post-250, but at this point it's just blatantly unfair.
reboot players already have built in 2x or more, normal server players cannot buy 2x coupons, anyone would thinks differently on this topic only wants them combined because they are a reboot player looking to be number 1 overall, which is not even fair and a complete blowout for them vs normal server players, they are stricly competing amongst themselves.
why is this a discussion? they move at two different paces, they are not equal, split them, its unrewarding for normal server players who spend money to gear themselves vs players who farm meso to gain similar results for free, killing mobs isn't that hard, even without the extra stat reboot players are missing, its also easier for players to obtain and fund a kanna mule and or bishop mule because they can train those and gear those at a faster and simpler rate.
I've been shouting this for years now, the fact that the topic continuously rises and nothing gets done shows how unfair it is but you continue asking like the answers gonna change.
~ SoulessClone
ALSO GIVE EACH CLASS THERE OWN INDIVIDUAL RANKINGS BECAUSE BEING LUMPED IN WITH OTHER THIEVES WHEN IM A SHADOWER AND TRYING TO COMPETE ISN'T FAIR, UNLESS I SWAP TO NIGHT LORD, LET ME RACE FOR MY OWN NUMBER 1
I definitely think there's no reason to have a "Both" category. The two servers progress much differently, both in terms of the options they have for progression and the rates at which the progression happens.
There's no meaningful information that comes as a result of the combined ranking. In fact I think more than anything it fosters a lot of argument over "this server is better than that server" or "it's so unfair that this server can do this while that server can't".
I think the ranking system in KMS is actually a much better format than the system we currently have for GMS, forum user SadVirgin made an excellent post yesterday covering the benefits of a ranking system like KMS's and also providing a more detailed explanation of why a combined ranking isn't useful to have.
Please separate the reboot rankings from regular server rankings!
Personally I don't like the [Both] button, as it sometimes bugs (If I click on Reboot or Non-Reboot, it can switch back to both by going to the next page)
But I think it would be better to just put both Reboot ranking in its own place separate from regular servers, but so that reboot can compete with each other if they want! Rankings would look more neat that way
The rankings should include a completely separate rankings for reboot and the other normal servers. Reboot is way too different for them to include both normal servers and Reboot in the same rankings. Also, the restriction of 2x exp coupons for normal servers is actually ridiculous considering Reboot's base exp is effectively 2.3x more than normal servers without the consideration of other exp additives. Basically, normal servers are losing because they (Reboot) have the advantage of permanent 2.3x while normal servers are suffering because the lack of 2x exp coupons. Lastly, from a business perspective, Nexon is losing money by not allowing normal servers to use 2x exp coupons from level 250-275. It would be nice if this restriction was removed as soon as possible.
I don't understand why reboot and normal servers ever shared the same rankings. The two have completely leveling experiences. Normal servers should have maintained their own rankings and there should've been a separate ranking for reboot. As many people above me have made it obvious, reboot has the leg up on 275 due to normal servers not having cash 2x cards past 250. I don't believe even if these coupons were reintroduced that it would be fair, as again, you have to pay for these cards, thus making these experiences again very different. Nothing against reboot, people play what they enjoy, but you're taking away the accomplishments of others by comparing the two.
While the ranking system seems to serve as a pretty important way to track progress and make achievements, its hard to prove the point that the competition it inspires doesn't form any sort of toxic behavior. And while I don't think this is ever possible to solve, including two groups in which one has a clear advantage over the other can easily further this toxicity.
A point that is commonly overlooked is that shared rankings belittle the achievement of regular server players. Thinking back to some of the past level caps, players at the top of the leaderboards felt accomplished for obvious reasons: in a fair game, they performed better than others. Rankings gave a clear sense of achievement and allowed players to share their achievements in a civilized manner and show other players their commitment to their goals. As seen in the current standings(which likely will further progress down the "Reboot domination path" over time) regular players who put in as much, if not more, work than other players are shoved down the rankings for their achievements to be belittled.
If it is absolutely necessary to keep the "both" tab, here are two potential suggestions I can propose for choosing which is the default: (1) Have no default - Prompt players upon loading the web page asking which they server they would like to see, (2) Base which server type is shown first on players' "main characters" -- the old system that seems to be recently removed.
As mentioned already above, SadVirgin proposed the KMS ranking system be brought to GMS and expressed the obvious benefits of it in another thread, and I think its harder to explain how simple and useful that system is in a better way than SadVirgin already has.
In KMS a guy in a non-reboot world beat reboot to the first spot of getting 275 so keep the rankings to give the non-reboot guys the fire they need.
This is probably because KMS Reboot is dead compared to GMS Reboot, so there were likely much less people fully committed to getting level 275.
In comparison to GMS, KMS doesn't have frenzy totem or kishin. Since GMS Reboot only has kishin and frenzy is better than kishin, the gap between GMS Reboot and Non-reboot exp rates is much larger than the gap between KMS Reboot and Non-reboot exp rates
In KMS a guy in a non-reboot world beat reboot to the first spot of getting 275 so keep the rankings to give the non-reboot guys the fire they need.
There is no comparison though, all reboot ranking is doing is making regular server players look hopeless.
Look at the 3rd comment in this post, 41/50 of top 50 in NA are reboot, even if reboot players and regular server players did exactly the same hours, Reboot will always pull ahead by an exp rate of approximately 2.3x
I don't see the reason why people think we should compare different servers on different experience rates
and 4 others.
Comments
Second:
I had a quick look at the top rankings and here's the results for day 2.
1-8 reboot
9 - bacon
10-15 reboot
16 - bera
17 - reboot
18 - scania
19-31 reboot
32 - bera
33 - reboot
34 - scania
35-42 reboot
43-44 bera
45 - reboot
46 - bera
47-50 reboot
41 of the top 50 are reboot. It's very difficult to account for personal circumstances, choices, etc but with the same level of effort and equal kill rates reboot levels more than 2x as fast as normal servers. This means that we should expect to see this gap become even worse -- unless as I suggested people simply choose not to go for the top ranks.
Given this it's hard to imagine what the point of the "both" tab even is. Both just means reboot, only reboot can win unless they all simply choose not to level.
We have "Reboot" ranks for racecars, and "Non-reboot" for cyclists. What's the purpose of seeing them both together exactly?
based on the current rankings already it's plain that reboot and main servers are not on equal footing as long as main servers don't have cash coupons. The current top non reboot player Seallord played for something like 30 hours straight when the servers went up and there are still 5+ reboot players ahead of him now.
It's currently too unfair on how reboot can gain experience over twice as fast as a player in regular server. We've had players going on all day for 20 hrs+ yet can't keep up with someone who does less time in reboot
i say split them completely
Atleast make it to where non-reboot is default, not both because reboot has an unfair advantage
why is this a discussion? they move at two different paces, they are not equal, split them, its unrewarding for normal server players who spend money to gear themselves vs players who farm meso to gain similar results for free, killing mobs isn't that hard, even without the extra stat reboot players are missing, its also easier for players to obtain and fund a kanna mule and or bishop mule because they can train those and gear those at a faster and simpler rate.
I've been shouting this for years now, the fact that the topic continuously rises and nothing gets done shows how unfair it is but you continue asking like the answers gonna change.
~ SoulessClone
ALSO GIVE EACH CLASS THERE OWN INDIVIDUAL RANKINGS BECAUSE BEING LUMPED IN WITH OTHER THIEVES WHEN IM A SHADOWER AND TRYING TO COMPETE ISN'T FAIR, UNLESS I SWAP TO NIGHT LORD, LET ME RACE FOR MY OWN NUMBER 1
There's no meaningful information that comes as a result of the combined ranking. In fact I think more than anything it fosters a lot of argument over "this server is better than that server" or "it's so unfair that this server can do this while that server can't".
I think the ranking system in KMS is actually a much better format than the system we currently have for GMS, forum user SadVirgin made an excellent post yesterday covering the benefits of a ranking system like KMS's and also providing a more detailed explanation of why a combined ranking isn't useful to have.
Personally I don't like the [Both] button, as it sometimes bugs (If I click on Reboot or Non-Reboot, it can switch back to both by going to the next page)
But I think it would be better to just put both Reboot ranking in its own place separate from regular servers, but so that reboot can compete with each other if they want! Rankings would look more neat that way
But please separate the rankings
A point that is commonly overlooked is that shared rankings belittle the achievement of regular server players. Thinking back to some of the past level caps, players at the top of the leaderboards felt accomplished for obvious reasons: in a fair game, they performed better than others. Rankings gave a clear sense of achievement and allowed players to share their achievements in a civilized manner and show other players their commitment to their goals. As seen in the current standings(which likely will further progress down the "Reboot domination path" over time) regular players who put in as much, if not more, work than other players are shoved down the rankings for their achievements to be belittled.
If it is absolutely necessary to keep the "both" tab, here are two potential suggestions I can propose for choosing which is the default: (1) Have no default - Prompt players upon loading the web page asking which they server they would like to see, (2) Base which server type is shown first on players' "main characters" -- the old system that seems to be recently removed.
As mentioned already above, SadVirgin proposed the KMS ranking system be brought to GMS and expressed the obvious benefits of it in another thread, and I think its harder to explain how simple and useful that system is in a better way than SadVirgin already has.
This is probably because KMS Reboot is dead compared to GMS Reboot, so there were likely much less people fully committed to getting level 275.
In comparison to GMS, KMS doesn't have frenzy totem or kishin. Since GMS Reboot only has kishin and frenzy is better than kishin, the gap between GMS Reboot and Non-reboot exp rates is much larger than the gap between KMS Reboot and Non-reboot exp rates
There is no comparison though, all reboot ranking is doing is making regular server players look hopeless.
Look at the 3rd comment in this post, 41/50 of top 50 in NA are reboot, even if reboot players and regular server players did exactly the same hours, Reboot will always pull ahead by an exp rate of approximately 2.3x
I don't see the reason why people think we should compare different servers on different experience rates