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Please get rid of Kishin already

HarmlessHarmless
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edited January 2019 in General Chat
It is the cancer that is killing this game.

Comments

  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited January 2019
    As I told the last guy who made a thread like this, just because you no longer care whether something is removed from the game doesn't mean everyone else shares your viewpoint, and it's pretty pretentious to act like you speak for everyone as a whole.
    Merphistdarik
  • MerphistMerphist
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    edited January 2019
    oh I thought SavageAce posted a memo or some update regarding the Kanna rework that's coming later this year. Also, by definition it isn't cancer. Correct me if I'm wrong. But as of "now" when people are leveling up 250+ especially with the help of Kishin, they're not really getting high exp rates.
    darik
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 6,990
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    edited January 2019
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.

    I'd say it's more like the heroin. Players are the ones who got addicted to it and abused it.
    Nexon just gave them plenty of supply.
  • ShokunKaYoShokunKaYo
    Reactions: 1,470
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    edited January 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    As I told the last guy who made a thread like this, just because you no longer care whether something is removed from the game doesn't mean everyone else shares your viewpoint, and it's pretty pretentious to act like you speak for everyone as a whole.

    It doesn't matter if everyone else doesn't share this opinion. Fact of the matter is that Kishin is the reason why servers are always so unstable. They have said on the memo that numerous people using kishin to spawn mobs more and quicker is the reason behind the instability issue. So whether to remove kishin from the game or to nerf the skill to oblivion is not really up to player base anymore since Kishin is actually screwing up the game for everyone. As for people who have invested time and money maining kanna, I will feel sad for those people since they'll lose one of Kanna's signature move. However, it is a skill that is affecting the entire player base negatively on the long run, so they can't just keep kishin the way it is just for them. They badly need to do something about kishin. Either delete the skill entirely and give Kanna different skill, or get rid of spawning rate effects of kishin and buff the dmg. Either way, kishin's mob spawning effect needs to go. And since they've already said on the memo that they'll eventually do something about kishin, I doubt it won't be long.
    HarmlessHuskyDM
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
    Reactions: 7,660
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    edited January 2019
    ShokunKaYo wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    As I told the last guy who made a thread like this, just because you no longer care whether something is removed from the game doesn't mean everyone else shares your viewpoint, and it's pretty pretentious to act like you speak for everyone as a whole.

    It doesn't matter if everyone else doesn't share this opinion. Fact of the matter is that Kishin is the reason why servers are always so unstable. They have said on the memo that numerous people using kishin to spawn mobs more and quicker is the reason behind the instability issue. So whether to remove kishin from the game or to nerf the skill to oblivion is not really up to player base anymore since Kishin is actually screwing up the game for everyone. As for people who have invested time and money maining kanna, I will feel sad for those people since they'll lose one of Kanna's signature move. However, it is a skill that is affecting the entire player base negatively on the long run, so they can't just keep kishin the way it is just for them. They badly need to do something about kishin. Either delete the skill entirely and give Kanna different skill, or get rid of spawning rate effects of kishin and buff the dmg. Either way, kishin's mob spawning effect needs to go. And since they've already said on the memo that they'll eventually do something about kishin, I doubt it won't be long.

    What I find a little funny about this is...back in 2011, spawn glitching maps with familiars was a thing. We didn't have serious lag issues back then. I do believe there was an infinite Kish glitch a year or two back as well, we didn't have problems then. Something seems a little off on the story there. Why all the sudden the issue?
    darik
  • rizariza
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    edited January 2019
    If people were working kanna would be alright ;)
    darik
  • x0Taz0xx0Taz0x
    Reactions: 440
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    edited January 2019
    ShokunKaYo wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    As I told the last guy who made a thread like this, just because you no longer care whether something is removed from the game doesn't mean everyone else shares your viewpoint, and it's pretty pretentious to act like you speak for everyone as a whole.

    It doesn't matter if everyone else doesn't share this opinion. Fact of the matter is that Kishin is the reason why servers are always so unstable. They have said on the memo that numerous people using kishin to spawn mobs more and quicker is the reason behind the instability issue. So whether to remove kishin from the game or to nerf the skill to oblivion is not really up to player base anymore since Kishin is actually screwing up the game for everyone. As for people who have invested time and money maining kanna, I will feel sad for those people since they'll lose one of Kanna's signature move. However, it is a skill that is affecting the entire player base negatively on the long run, so they can't just keep kishin the way it is just for them. They badly need to do something about kishin. Either delete the skill entirely and give Kanna different skill, or get rid of spawning rate effects of kishin and buff the dmg. Either way, kishin's mob spawning effect needs to go. And since they've already said on the memo that they'll eventually do something about kishin, I doubt it won't be long.

    I love the way that they hammer kishin, when the problem is NOT kishin, rather the abuse of it. As usual, it will be the "Legit" players that pay the price for Nexon's inability to control the hackers. As I main a Kanna on one of my main accounts, I do not look forward to getting hammered again. I have been playing since the 1st anniversary and have watched many of the new chars become the hacker's char of choice. I have watched many chars nerfed and re-nerferd. Nexon just makes it worse with things like 25 star force... people are blowing up their gear getting to 22 stars and need mesos both for replacing the destroyed gear and the star forcing itself. Why do hackers hack? To SELL mesos and make $$$!!! Why do people buy so many mesos? Because they need WAY more than they can make in the game. Problem? Nexon keeps making the game where more and more mesos are needed! So why is it that this is the fault of Kannas? You just have to love the way that it takes hundreds of billions of mesos to make a 22 star set. These people spend, literally, Thousands of USD (or Euros) on their characters... do you really believe that they have any problem buying mesos? I am in Broa... even a dead world like that has to have mesos... take away the market, and you take away the hackers. Yet, every year we are given a greater and greater need for MORE mesos. Then we blame whatever character happens to be being abused. Does Kanna ADD to the draw on the Servers? Without doubt! Is OVER 50% of that caused by hackers? Also, without doubt! I look forward to seeing how they nerf us, without damaging the the reason why we made them in the first place. As for your comment about it being Kannas that are the fault of the servers being so unstable... that is like these Judges saying it is the fault of the women (for wearing a short skirt, looking smexy, w/e) for being attacked. It is NOT factual!!! Try putting the blame where it really lies... with the hackers. All these new skills on Other chars... that freeze the whole darn map when used.. do you honestly think that THEY have no effect on the Servers? Let's take them away the SAME time we get rid of Kishin!! *Waiting to hear ALL of the people maining THOSE chars start yelling and hollering now*. I am sure THAT will go over real well.
    ruth02HuskyDM
  • x0Taz0xx0Taz0x
    Reactions: 440
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    edited January 2019
    Petalmagic wrote: »
    ShokunKaYo wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    As I told the last guy who made a thread like this, just because you no longer care whether something is removed from the game doesn't mean everyone else shares your viewpoint, and it's pretty pretentious to act like you speak for everyone as a whole.

    It doesn't matter if everyone else doesn't share this opinion. Fact of the matter is that Kishin is the reason why servers are always so unstable. They have said on the memo that numerous people using kishin to spawn mobs more and quicker is the reason behind the instability issue. So whether to remove kishin from the game or to nerf the skill to oblivion is not really up to player base anymore since Kishin is actually screwing up the game for everyone. As for people who have invested time and money maining kanna, I will feel sad for those people since they'll lose one of Kanna's signature move. However, it is a skill that is affecting the entire player base negatively on the long run, so they can't just keep kishin the way it is just for them. They badly need to do something about kishin. Either delete the skill entirely and give Kanna different skill, or get rid of spawning rate effects of kishin and buff the dmg. Either way, kishin's mob spawning effect needs to go. And since they've already said on the memo that they'll eventually do something about kishin, I doubt it won't be long.

    What I find a little funny about this is...back in 2011, spawn glitching maps with familiars was a thing. We didn't have serious lag issues back then. I do believe there was an infinite Kish glitch a year or two back as well, we didn't have problems then. Something seems a little off on the story there. Why all the sudden the issue?

    Just people looking to make legit Kannas the "Goat" for Nexon's inability to control the hackers. I DO admit that with ALL the kanna hackers this is a BIG factor in gameplay. Instead of nerfing us, they need to allow some of the legit players a better means of reporting these thousands of hackers.
    darik
  • ruth02ruth02
    Reactions: 1,190
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    edited January 2019
    u think w kannas are culpables in this game ? or kishin ?? you have a poor vision of the game, if you nerinish kishin, it is obvious that the frenzy too, do you think that eliminating the kishin or the character will solve all this problem? you forget hackers, not only kannas, there are also arks, blaze wizard, dual blades (now last on maps moras and lachelein), bots in cities, your comment does not offer anything new, this problem comes from many years ago when the big bang started, the game has bugs and lag before kanna existed, nexon never fix this small details, over the years is unstable, look at the gameguard for example ?, crash and failures when starting the game or logeando, problems in characters in many users etc etc, the instability is not for a job or the kishin is the game in its entirety, and the vision of game one verifies it after watching a maintenance after 6 hours to 5 hours the reality of the game and its servers, completely empty

    removing kishin do not solve anything, if you nerfe this job again, then the frenzy totem too and many buffs and jobs too and the economy in the game would be difficult at this point, the merged was one of the errors that has easy fix (join all the worlds at once and improve the stability of the game guard against hackers and not be tremendous abusers in the expansion of items, nexon must forget the money and think as wizet in its first years at once ...
    darik
  • ruth02ruth02
    Reactions: 1,190
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    edited January 2019
    x0Taz0x wrote: »
    ShokunKaYo wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    As I told the last guy who made a thread like this, just because you no longer care whether something is removed from the game doesn't mean everyone else shares your viewpoint, and it's pretty pretentious to act like you speak for everyone as a whole.

    It doesn't matter if everyone else doesn't share this opinion. Fact of the matter is that Kishin is the reason why servers are always so unstable. They have said on the memo that numerous people using kishin to spawn mobs more and quicker is the reason behind the instability issue. So whether to remove kishin from the game or to nerf the skill to oblivion is not really up to player base anymore since Kishin is actually screwing up the game for everyone. As for people who have invested time and money maining kanna, I will feel sad for those people since they'll lose one of Kanna's signature move. However, it is a skill that is affecting the entire player base negatively on the long run, so they can't just keep kishin the way it is just for them. They badly need to do something about kishin. Either delete the skill entirely and give Kanna different skill, or get rid of spawning rate effects of kishin and buff the dmg. Either way, kishin's mob spawning effect needs to go. And since they've already said on the memo that they'll eventually do something about kishin, I doubt it won't be long.

    I love the way that they hammer kishin, when the problem is NOT kishin, rather the abuse of it. As usual, it will be the "Legit" players that pay the price for Nexon's inability to control the hackers. As I main a Kanna on one of my main accounts, I do not look forward to getting hammered again. I have been playing since the 1st anniversary and have watched many of the new chars become the hacker's char of choice. I have watched many chars nerfed and re-nerferd. Nexon just makes it worse with things like 25 star force... people are blowing up their gear getting to 22 stars and need mesos both for replacing the destroyed gear and the star forcing itself. Why do hackers hack? To SELL mesos and make $$$!!! Why do people buy so many mesos? Because they need WAY more than they can make in the game. Problem? Nexon keeps making the game where more and more mesos are needed! So why is it that this is the fault of Kannas? You just have to love the way that it takes hundreds of billions of mesos to make a 22 star set. These people spend, literally, Thousands of USD (or Euros) on their characters... do you really believe that they have any problem buying mesos? I am in Broa... even a dead world like that has to have mesos... take away the market, and you take away the hackers. Yet, every year we are given a greater and greater need for MORE mesos. Then we blame whatever character happens to be being abused. Does Kanna ADD to the draw on the Servers? Without doubt! Is OVER 50% of that caused by hackers? Also, without doubt! I look forward to seeing how they nerf us, without damaging the the reason why we made them in the first place. As for your comment about it being Kannas that are the fault of the servers being so unstable... that is like these Judges saying it is the fault of the women (for wearing a short skirt, looking smexy, w/e) for being attacked. It is NOT factual!!! Try putting the blame where it really lies... with the hackers. All these new skills on Other chars... that freeze the whole darn map when used.. do you honestly think that THEY have no effect on the Servers? Let's take them away the SAME time we get rid of Kishin!! *Waiting to hear ALL of the people maining THOSE chars start yelling and hollering now*. I am sure THAT will go over real well.

    think the same as you and support your comment
  • microwavemicrowave
    Reactions: 425
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    Member
    edited January 2019
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.

    men xd .yes nexon remove kishin many people quit of the game , simple
    men .. , the hackers will continue in the game ... so eliminate kishin or kanna, they have methods to spam mobs. you are new I think ... years ago the hakcers had pink beam spam hack if you are not informed
    men.. this cancer have years ... and the great cancer was the merge
  • ShokunKaYoShokunKaYo
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    edited January 2019
    x0Taz0x wrote: »
    ShokunKaYo wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    As I told the last guy who made a thread like this, just because you no longer care whether something is removed from the game doesn't mean everyone else shares your viewpoint, and it's pretty pretentious to act like you speak for everyone as a whole.

    It doesn't matter if everyone else doesn't share this opinion. Fact of the matter is that Kishin is the reason why servers are always so unstable. They have said on the memo that numerous people using kishin to spawn mobs more and quicker is the reason behind the instability issue. So whether to remove kishin from the game or to nerf the skill to oblivion is not really up to player base anymore since Kishin is actually screwing up the game for everyone. As for people who have invested time and money maining kanna, I will feel sad for those people since they'll lose one of Kanna's signature move. However, it is a skill that is affecting the entire player base negatively on the long run, so they can't just keep kishin the way it is just for them. They badly need to do something about kishin. Either delete the skill entirely and give Kanna different skill, or get rid of spawning rate effects of kishin and buff the dmg. Either way, kishin's mob spawning effect needs to go. And since they've already said on the memo that they'll eventually do something about kishin, I doubt it won't be long.

    I love the way that they hammer kishin, when the problem is NOT kishin, rather the abuse of it. As usual, it will be the "Legit" players that pay the price for Nexon's inability to control the hackers. As I main a Kanna on one of my main accounts, I do not look forward to getting hammered again. I have been playing since the 1st anniversary and have watched many of the new chars become the hacker's char of choice. I have watched many chars nerfed and re-nerferd. Nexon just makes it worse with things like 25 star force... people are blowing up their gear getting to 22 stars and need mesos both for replacing the destroyed gear and the star forcing itself. Why do hackers hack? To SELL mesos and make $$$!!! Why do people buy so many mesos? Because they need WAY more than they can make in the game. Problem? Nexon keeps making the game where more and more mesos are needed! So why is it that this is the fault of Kannas? You just have to love the way that it takes hundreds of billions of mesos to make a 22 star set. These people spend, literally, Thousands of USD (or Euros) on their characters... do you really believe that they have any problem buying mesos? I am in Broa... even a dead world like that has to have mesos... take away the market, and you take away the hackers. Yet, every year we are given a greater and greater need for MORE mesos. Then we blame whatever character happens to be being abused. Does Kanna ADD to the draw on the Servers? Without doubt! Is OVER 50% of that caused by hackers? Also, without doubt! I look forward to seeing how they nerf us, without damaging the the reason why we made them in the first place. As for your comment about it being Kannas that are the fault of the servers being so unstable... that is like these Judges saying it is the fault of the women (for wearing a short skirt, looking smexy, w/e) for being attacked. It is NOT factual!!! Try putting the blame where it really lies... with the hackers. All these new skills on Other chars... that freeze the whole darn map when used.. do you honestly think that THEY have no effect on the Servers? Let's take them away the SAME time we get rid of Kishin!! *Waiting to hear ALL of the people maining THOSE chars start yelling and hollering now*. I am sure THAT will go over real well.

    I never said it wasn't hacker who's at fault here. Do you think I'm gonna enjoy saying good bye to kishin and ez legion mule level ups? Yeah I would love for nexon to improve their guards against hackers and prevent them from abusing the living sh*t out of kishin. Realistically, however, that's like asking pig to fly. It simply won't happen. Even in KMS, where they must provide social number to make an account, they have problems with macro hackers messing up the economy. You think GMS, where anyone can make any number of accounts with simple email, is ever going to get fixes with hackers any time soon? The hacker issue is just completely lost war. A complete waste of time and energy to even talk about it. There's absolutely no way of getting around to it. No matter how much they ban botting accounts, they're just gonna make more and more accounts and repeat this forever. Even by some god given miracle that devs actually start working and upgrade their in-game hack detection, it's not gonna fix anything. Plenty of other games with better hack detection built in still have numerous hackers (If there's a will, there's always fkin way). As for new contents that keep demanding more mesos, that's just how RPG is. They're just gonna keep making new contents and ways that you can use to make the character stronger, as they'll continue to make new, more powerful bosses to fight against. All in all, nerfing kishin or getting rid of it completely is most realistic way.
  • SunsetChaosSunsetChaos
    Reactions: 1,115
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    edited January 2019
    No more Kishin?
    Solution: Globally increase spawnrate and amount of mobs in every map.

    But this will increase lag?
    Solution: Despawn mobs in ALL empty maps. Like how when you enter a new map and there's no mobs because no one visited it yet. You have to wait a few seconds for them to spawn. Now change it so that it does this when players leave the map.
    UxieHarmlessFuhreakSlicedTimeHuskyDMBradLeeTeemicrowavedarikLyedenMerphist
  • HarmlessHarmless
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    edited January 2019
    Merphist wrote: »
    oh I thought SavageAce posted a memo or some update regarding the Kanna rework that's coming later this year. Also, by definition it isn't cancer. Correct me if I'm wrong. But as of "now" when people are leveling up 250+ especially with the help of Kishin, they're not really getting high exp rates.

    I'm mainly talking about how Bera is pretty much unplayable because of the lag Kishin produces, I never said it wasn't useful for leveling, drops, etc. We need increased drop and exp (Reboot needs help) to make up for its loss, but Kishin does have to go imo.

    EDIT: I like the idea of the above poster, wish it was doable.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited January 2019
    This is all weird as hell, because back when you could still kishin glitch a map, this "oh kishin is lagging the servers and making everything unstable" crap wasn't even a thing. Seems odd it's suddenly the issue.
    PetalmagicFuhreakdarik
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2019
    I'd just like to point out that hackers seem to primarily hack as a way of earning mesos to sell. (It's why they're so low on reboot)
    So the real solution, that players can help, is to stop people from buying these in the first place.
    If you buy mesos or you know someone who does, stop that/them, this is the gas to the hacker's fire.
    (Plus it's against Terms of Use and could catch up with you)
  • ShokunKaYoShokunKaYo
    Reactions: 1,470
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    edited January 2019
    No more Kishin?
    Solution: Globally increase spawnrate and amount of mobs in every map.

    But this will increase lag?
    Solution: Despawn mobs in ALL empty maps. Like how when you enter a new map and there's no mobs because no one visited it yet. You have to wait a few seconds for them to spawn. Now change it so that it does this when players leave the map.

    Your solution is wayyy too advanced for their spaghetti codes XD
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited January 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    I'd just like to point out that hackers seem to primarily hack as a way of earning mesos to sell. (It's why they're so low on reboot)
    So the real solution, that players can help, is to stop people from buying these in the first place.
    If you buy mesos or you know someone who does, stop that/them, this is the gas to the hacker's fire.
    (Plus it's against Terms of Use and could catch up with you)

    I'm not disagreeing with you, but good luck finding eboss drops in the auction house that didn't come from a bot.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing with you, but good luck finding eboss drops in the auction house that didn't come from a bot.

    True, but if they have no way to convert mesos back into cash after that, it's all the same.
    The idea is to cut them off from their end goal, actual currency.
    So long as the game is profitable, they won't stop.

    Of course "gold sellers" aren't the only ones hacking, but they're probably the majority.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited January 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing with you, but good luck finding eboss drops in the auction house that didn't come from a bot.

    True, but if they have no way to convert mesos back into cash after that, it's all the same.
    The idea is to cut them off from their end goal, actual currency.
    So long as the game is profitable, they won't stop.

    Of course "gold sellers" aren't the only ones hacking, but they're probably the majority.

    That's definitely true. All the "anti-bot" measures in the world won't do a damn thing about it so long as it's profitable to them.