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Please get rid of Kishin already

Comments

  • ShadEightShadEight
    Reactions: 3,110
    Posts: 381
    Member
    edited January 2019
    pepe wrote: »
    Can the GMS team actually tell us what's going on with the Kishin situation before they hit the switch? Memos are great and all but I don't want a memo saying something like 'we've thought long and hard and have come to the decision to nerf kishin permanently and will compensate it with a small change (15% mob exp etc) we are sorry and will strive to make the game better'.

    There was a moment in the nexon Q&A where a twitch streamer (Matt) inquired about the Nebulite-Flame situation and Savage Ace said something like 'would you guys like to have flames instead of Nebs?' (to which Matt responded in the affirmative). I believe this moment actually solidified Nexon's decision to replace Nebs with Flames and it was all due to a simple exchange.

    I bring up this instance of communication not to derail the thread but to demonstrate the effective act of consulting players PRIOR to major changes. Since Kishin affects the majority of players, I propose that we the players should democratically decide the fate of Kishin.

    The problem with this is that nexon's intention for Kishin could very well be to nerf it to JMS levels (which I suspect IS what they're going for) or worst case remove it entirely. Meanwhile the playerbase wants to retain Kishin or it's effect but remove the 2 PC meta (kishin link skill, kishin node, permanent spawn boost to all maps, etc). Therein lies the contradiction. We want one thing they want another. And there is simply no solution that could satisfy both sides.

    Sorry to be the pessimist but the most likely outcome to all of this is that Kishin as we know it will be gone, normal servers will keep Frenzy and Reboot dies. We're just setting ourselves up for disappointment at this point.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 6,820
    Posts: 1,280
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    ShadEight wrote: »
    The problem with this is that nexon's intention for Kishin could very well be to nerf it to JMS levels (which I suspect IS what they're going for) or worst case remove it entirely. Meanwhile the playerbase wants to retain Kishin or it's effect but remove the 2 PC meta (kishin link skill, kishin node, permanent spawn boost to all maps, etc). Therein lies the contradiction. We want one thing they want another. And there is simply no solution that could satisfy both sides.

    Sorry to be the pessimist but the most likely outcome to all of this is that Kishin as we know it will be gone, normal servers will keep Frenzy and Reboot dies. We're just setting ourselves up for disappointment at this point.

    The majority of players probably do want Kishin. Don't forget there is a small base of players who don't use Kishin and never have.
    We're doing just fine in reboot thanks. Not to make light of the situation at hand, but if we're able to do it, so can you.
    Honestly I'm conflicted on the removal of Kishin. I personally think it's a good move, but if other players do not then you risk losing the majority of the playerbase.
    That will affect even the players who want Kishin gone negatively. It's an extremely tricky situation that Nexon has let develop.
    At this point GMS is basically a private server compared to KMS. One that many players have grown to love.
    If Nexon isn't careful they'll end up destroying the small loyal fanbase they have left over here.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,815
    Posts: 6,244
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    Disclaimer: The following are my personal opinions and thoughts, which do not represent anything Nexon or my fellow VFMs might be thinking.

    First, a personal confession: I like plentiful, fast spawn.
    I just find it a lot more fun to hit a lot of enemies at once, than to chase them down one or two at a time.
    I remember back when I started playing, in 2008, one of the things I enjoyed the most was CPQ. Trade wins, max Trojans and Haste. As a Fighter I had the amazing mobbing skill Slash Blast, which could hit up to 6 enemies at once - provided they were really close, because back then melee was really melee. And CPQ let that actually happen. I could stand there and spam Slash Blast and hear and see it hit 4-6 Trojans every time. It was fun.
    And I remember LKC when we first got it, when the mobs were like mini-bosses that no-one could hope to 1-hit, but were also a sparse few per map. The EXP was great, but it wasn't nearly as much fun. It felt so wasteful to be using a skill that could hit 3 enemies on just one or two at a time, and to spend so much of my time walking to the next enemy (Warriors didn't have FJ back then).
    So, for my own personal biased sense of fun, I'd prefer a solution that allows increased spawn to continue to exist, rather than a solution that takes it away and increases EXP and Drop instead.

    In addition to that, we have the problem that increased EXP and Drop would stack with Frenzy (and we all know Frenzy is never getting removed). And we also still have all the "kill X enemies" quests that become more tedious on base spawn.

    "But Kishin makes the servers lag!"
    As some people pointed out before me, it can't be Kishin alone that's causing it. We had years of "glitched" spawn in all maps, and the servers didn't lag.
    In my opinion, what is causing the lag is the hackers that use Kishin - and then kill everything in the map faster than any legitimate player can. That, along with whatever new processing Nexon has added over the years to every skill cast and attack (some of it, ironically, in an effort to detect hacking), is what is overloading our servers. In my opinion.
    I don't know why Nexon has been unable to reliably detect this too-fast killing and ban for it. They keep false-flagging people who lag, instead.
    If they can get it right and force botters to kill at no better than legit player speed, I believe the server overload issue would be solved.
    But I will continue this post under the assumption that such detection is not feasible for them.

    Aside regarding motivation to cheat
    Reducing or removing the need for meso won't remove hacking bots from the game.
    It's human nature. As long as there is any challenge or difficulty at all in a game, there will be those willing to pay for shortcuts - and those willing to supply the shortcuts for a profit. All games suffer from cheaters. The games with fewer cheaters just have better technology to block or catch them, or better legal environment to scare them.
    And obviously we can't remove all challenge from the game, or it will just be "Welcome to Maplestory. You win!"

    So, the solution we should aim for, is one that would allow legitimate players to enjoy increased spawn, while making it considerably harder for cheaters to do so.

    Some ideas I have heard or thought of for how to do that:
    1. Solutions that leave the Kishin Shoukan skill as it is
      1. Make Kanna, like Zero and BT, only able to be created during specific events.
        This would mean that botters would not be able to instantly generate a new Kanna bot to replace one that got banned.
        Botters would still be able to create a "stockpile" of millions of Kanna accounts when it is opened for creation, and then start using them as needed. Nexon would need to develop some kind of tracking for such dormant accounts to hopefully detect and squash them as soon as they become active.
        Also, half-year intervals like Zero or BT might be too big. Reboot relies on Kanna meso farming, and a new player not able to do that for up to six months is at a severe disadvantage. Kanna creation events would need to be held at higher frequency than those other seasonal classes, at least for Reboot.
      2. Make Kanna, like Zero, only able to be created when there is already a high-level other character on the account.
        This would slow botters down some, as they would have to bot some other class to the specified high level before they can make the Kanna. It would give more time for Nexon to detect and ban the account before it starts being a big load on the servers.
    2. Solutions that remove the spawn effect from Kishin Shoukan (and solve the 2PC meta, while we're at it)
      1. Make "decent Monolith" skill nodes for 5th job.
        We know some bots do make it to 5th job, and supply the normal server Auction Houses with nodestones and droplets. However, there are far fewer of them than lower-level meso-farming bots in all other areas, either because they get caught or because their operators don't bother with 5th job. If the number of bots with spawn-increase capabilities remains low, the servers won't choke.
      2. Make "mini Frenzy" totems (expiring and with kishin-like spawn effect) available in a way bots can't exploit, such as:
        • Put a 30-day mini-Frenzy as one of the last items in Fairy Bros daily gifts.
          This would mean that an account newer than 3-4 weeks can't obtain it. Can we trust Nexon to detect and ban a bot laying low and doing Fairy Bros and nothing else for a month?
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Legion shop.
          Legion requires at least 5 characters over 60 and at least 500 cumulative levels on the account.
          Not that botters can't create that. But, again, it gives Nexon time to detect and ban the account before it becomes a server-load problem.
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Maple Rewards shop.
          Bots can be programmed to boss for Reward Points, of course. But it takes time to farm a significant amount of RP, and, again, more chance of getting detected and banned.
        • Change the ways mini-Frenzy is offered from month to month.
          Much like the hyper teleport rocks we get at random from Maple Missions, Hot Weeks, Fairy Bros, attendances, and other events. Would make it difficult for the bot-runners to keep programming their bots to do whatever is required to get the current mini-Frenzy.

    Opinions? Other ideas?
    darikFuhreakAggraphinePetalmagicSlicedTimeInvulgoWZrk
  • darikdarik
    Reactions: 3,150
    Posts: 601
    Member
    edited February 2019
    I like the idea of having a frenzy that expires but is obtainable, cuz using 2 comps to lv is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard from a game.
    I just hope they make it accesible,not like just 1 % of population being able to get it.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
    Posts: 3,553
    Member
    edited February 2019
    AKradian wrote: »
    1. Make "decent Monolith" skill nodes for 5th job.
      We know some bots do make it to 5th job, and supply the normal server Auction Houses with nodestones and droplets. However, there are far fewer of them than lower-level meso-farming bots in all other areas, either because they get caught or because their operators don't bother with 5th job. If the number of bots with spawn-increase capabilities remains low, the servers won't choke.
    2. Make "mini Frenzy" totems (expiring and with kishin-like spawn effect) available in a way bots can't exploit, such as:
      • Put a 30-day mini-Frenzy as one of the last items in Fairy Bros daily gifts.
        This would mean that an account newer than 3-4 weeks can't obtain it. Can we trust Nexon to detect and ban a bot laying low and doing Fairy Bros and nothing else for a month?
      • Put mini-Frenzy in the Legion shop.
        Legion requires at least 5 characters over 60 and at least 500 cumulative levels on the account.
        Not that botters can't create that. But, again, it gives Nexon time to detect and ban the account before it becomes a server-load problem.
      • Put mini-Frenzy in the Maple Rewards shop.
        Bots can be programmed to boss for Reward Points, of course. But it takes time to farm a significant amount of RP, and, again, more chance of getting detected and banned.
      • Change the ways mini-Frenzy is offered from month to month.
        Much like the hyper teleport rocks we get at random from Maple Missions, Hot Weeks, Fairy Bros, attendances, and other events. Would make it difficult for the bot-runners to keep programming their bots to do whatever is required to get the current mini-Frenzy.

    Opinions? Other ideas?

    Damn it, why do you do this? I like all of these ideas.

    Though, I feel the "decent monolith" skill node may be the best route to go for overall game health. Have it start off at level 1 giving an effect that's roughly half that of kishin as it currently exists and at level 25 give an effect nearly as powerful as an actual frenzy totem. It'd incentivize actually leveling up a decent skill node for something more than cooldown reduction for more decents than just holy symbol. It would also, yes, likely end up tanking the value of frenzy totems as a result, but what does that really matter? You shouldn't be selling game items for real money anyway according to the terms of service.

    Now that I give this further thought, perhaps instead of a regular blue skill node, this "decent monolith" node could be made a special node; the purple ones that expire in a week. In exchange for being a special, and thus expiring, nodestone, it could be given the aforementioned max-level effect. Permanence is no great issue either, as it would only last for as long as someone is able to keep up with the shard cost of special nodes.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 6,820
    Posts: 1,280
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    AKradian wrote: »
    Opinions? Other ideas?

    Increased spawns are certainly something I wouldn't blame anyone for having fun with.
    I've never been once for the "Dynasty Warriors" series, but the fact that there's an entire game series based on killing as many mooks as you can in short bursts shows this desirable by people.
    I believe Nexon had a good thing going for this type of gameplay with maps that have mobs split into more mobs.
    Aquaroad with Bombing Fish House and Scrapyard with Modded Buffroid to name the two I can think of off the top of my head.
    Having alternative map chains with these types of mobs could help in creating that feeling, without the need to increase spawns.
    Of course that's a lot of work and unrealistic, but still a nice idea I think.
    This increase of spawn rate could maybe be done with grind maps designed to use level-adjusted mobs like in recent event grind maps. Hackers will abuse these maps too, but not like they aren't abusing maps already.

    My personal problem from Kishin comes from the fact that the 2PC Meta allows players to basically turn on "Private Server Mode" with benefits that are too good to be true.
    Perhaps a time-limited device is a good solution, while benefits are great, they're not just a switch you can flip on/off as you please.
    Actually having to work for (Not that Kannas don't work for theirs) benefits is a nice solution to the "too good to be true" problem that I have with the skill.
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Now that I give this further thought, perhaps instead of a regular blue skill node, this "decent monolith" node could be made a special node; the purple ones that expire in a week. In exchange for being a special, and thus expiring, nodestone, it could be given the aforementioned max-level effect. Permanence is no great issue either, as it would only last for as long as someone is able to keep up with the shard cost of special nodes.

    Making it a special node adds the drawback of you have to use shards to buy this instead of focusing on your other nodes, too.
    It's a great benefit with a lot of drawbacks involved. I like it.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,815
    Posts: 6,244
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Now that I give this further thought, perhaps instead of a regular blue skill node, this "decent monolith" node could be made a special node; the purple ones that expire in a week. In exchange for being a special, and thus expiring, nodestone, it could be given the aforementioned max-level effect. Permanence is no great issue either, as it would only last for as long as someone is able to keep up with the shard cost of special nodes.

    I had considered that, but the problem is that bots have the advantage with this: they bot for nodestones anyway, and they don't need the nodes to boost up their actual skills (since they use damage hacks and such), so they'd have no problem keeping such a node up.
    FuhreakSlicedTime
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
    Posts: 3,553
    Member
    edited February 2019
    AKradian wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Now that I give this further thought, perhaps instead of a regular blue skill node, this "decent monolith" node could be made a special node; the purple ones that expire in a week. In exchange for being a special, and thus expiring, nodestone, it could be given the aforementioned max-level effect. Permanence is no great issue either, as it would only last for as long as someone is able to keep up with the shard cost of special nodes.

    I had considered that, but the problem is that bots have the advantage with this: they bot for nodestones anyway, and they don't need the nodes to boost up their actual skills (since they use damage hacks and such), so they'd have no problem keeping such a node up.

    So unfortunately, once again, things to improve quality of life for players hinges on the fact that it makes things easier for the bots. Whereas things that are implemented to make it harder for the bots doesn't even affect them. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    Fuhreak
  • InvulgoInvulgo
    Reactions: 4,620
    Posts: 544
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Harmless wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.

    What about the Frenzy Totem then?

    It should go as well, but seriously doubt that will happen, as nexon will lose money. A slighty nerfed version is the best we can hope imo.
    SuperJonic wrote: »
    To be fair, I don't see kishin as a problem. So why remove a skill to butcher the class even further?
    microwave wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.

    What about the Frenzy Totem then?

    another cancer more in the game and the worst of all ... when the frenzy totem appeared the game hurt more
    ShokunKaYo wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.

    What about the Frenzy Totem then?

    The thing about Frenzy totem is that it's not gonna get abused like kishin is being abused. They're items worth over 2 grand USD. There won't be bunch of hackers with multiple accounts meso botting with frenzy totems. Not really comparable

    Perhaps not but it would be really increase the pay2win gap in the game. A decent spawn should not be available for money like that in my opinion. A good spawn should be free and available for everyone that loves MapleStory.
    AKradian wrote: »
    Disclaimer: The following are my personal opinions and thoughts, which do not represent anything Nexon or my fellow VFMs might be thinking.

    First, a personal confession: I like plentiful, fast spawn.
    I just find it a lot more fun to hit a lot of enemies at once, than to chase them down one or two at a time.
    I remember back when I started playing, in 2008, one of the things I enjoyed the most was CPQ. Trade wins, max Trojans and Haste. As a Fighter I had the amazing mobbing skill Slash Blast, which could hit up to 6 enemies at once - provided they were really close, because back then melee was really melee. And CPQ let that actually happen. I could stand there and spam Slash Blast and hear and see it hit 4-6 Trojans every time. It was fun.
    And I remember LKC when we first got it, when the mobs were like mini-bosses that no-one could hope to 1-hit, but were also a sparse few per map. The EXP was great, but it wasn't nearly as much fun. It felt so wasteful to be using a skill that could hit 3 enemies on just one or two at a time, and to spend so much of my time walking to the next enemy (Warriors didn't have FJ back then).
    So, for my own personal biased sense of fun, I'd prefer a solution that allows increased spawn to continue to exist, rather than a solution that takes it away and increases EXP and Drop instead.

    In addition to that, we have the problem that increased EXP and Drop would stack with Frenzy (and we all know Frenzy is never getting removed). And we also still have all the "kill X enemies" quests that become more tedious on base spawn.

    "But Kishin makes the servers lag!"
    As some people pointed out before me, it can't be Kishin alone that's causing it. We had years of "glitched" spawn in all maps, and the servers didn't lag.
    In my opinion, what is causing the lag is the hackers that use Kishin - and then kill everything in the map faster than any legitimate player can. That, along with whatever new processing Nexon has added over the years to every skill cast and attack (some of it, ironically, in an effort to detect hacking), is what is overloading our servers. In my opinion.
    I don't know why Nexon has been unable to reliably detect this too-fast killing and ban for it. They keep false-flagging people who lag, instead.
    If they can get it right and force botters to kill at no better than legit player speed, I believe the server overload issue would be solved.
    But I will continue this post under the assumption that such detection is not feasible for them.

    Aside regarding motivation to cheat
    Reducing or removing the need for meso won't remove hacking bots from the game.
    It's human nature. As long as there is any challenge or difficulty at all in a game, there will be those willing to pay for shortcuts - and those willing to supply the shortcuts for a profit. All games suffer from cheaters. The games with fewer cheaters just have better technology to block or catch them, or better legal environment to scare them.
    And obviously we can't remove all challenge from the game, or it will just be "Welcome to Maplestory. You win!"

    So, the solution we should aim for, is one that would allow legitimate players to enjoy increased spawn, while making it considerably harder for cheaters to do so.

    Some ideas I have heard or thought of for how to do that:
    1. Solutions that leave the Kishin Shoukan skill as it is
      1. Make Kanna, like Zero and BT, only able to be created during specific events.
        This would mean that botters would not be able to instantly generate a new Kanna bot to replace one that got banned.
        Botters would still be able to create a "stockpile" of millions of Kanna accounts when it is opened for creation, and then start using them as needed. Nexon would need to develop some kind of tracking for such dormant accounts to hopefully detect and squash them as soon as they become active.
        Also, half-year intervals like Zero or BT might be too big. Reboot relies on Kanna meso farming, and a new player not able to do that for up to six months is at a severe disadvantage. Kanna creation events would need to be held at higher frequency than those other seasonal classes, at least for Reboot.
      2. Make Kanna, like Zero, only able to be created when there is already a high-level other character on the account.
        This would slow botters down some, as they would have to bot some other class to the specified high level before they can make the Kanna. It would give more time for Nexon to detect and ban the account before it starts being a big load on the servers.
    2. Solutions that remove the spawn effect from Kishin Shoukan (and solve the 2PC meta, while we're at it)
      1. Make "decent Monolith" skill nodes for 5th job.
        We know some bots do make it to 5th job, and supply the normal server Auction Houses with nodestones and droplets. However, there are far fewer of them than lower-level meso-farming bots in all other areas, either because they get caught or because their operators don't bother with 5th job. If the number of bots with spawn-increase capabilities remains low, the servers won't choke.
      2. Make "mini Frenzy" totems (expiring and with kishin-like spawn effect) available in a way bots can't exploit, such as:
        • Put a 30-day mini-Frenzy as one of the last items in Fairy Bros daily gifts.
          This would mean that an account newer than 3-4 weeks can't obtain it. Can we trust Nexon to detect and ban a bot laying low and doing Fairy Bros and nothing else for a month?
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Legion shop.
          Legion requires at least 5 characters over 60 and at least 500 cumulative levels on the account.
          Not that botters can't create that. But, again, it gives Nexon time to detect and ban the account before it becomes a server-load problem.
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Maple Rewards shop.
          Bots can be programmed to boss for Reward Points, of course. But it takes time to farm a significant amount of RP, and, again, more chance of getting detected and banned.
        • Change the ways mini-Frenzy is offered from month to month.
          Much like the hyper teleport rocks we get at random from Maple Missions, Hot Weeks, Fairy Bros, attendances, and other events. Would make it difficult for the bot-runners to keep programming their bots to do whatever is required to get the current mini-Frenzy.

    Opinions? Other ideas?

    This solution is great. I 100% agree with everything. Only thing I would like to suggest is limiting account creation. Players should be allowed to own maximum of five accounts. Doing that would need some type of verification system, for instance phone verification or an authenticator. This has been suggested many times in the past by various players and volunteers. Botting is a circular problem, ban one and another appears. Stop the circle and the problem is reduced significantly. There will always be players that work around it, but making it harder to have accounts to cheat on is the best way to fight it in my opinion.
    Fuhreakmicrowavedarik
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 3,170
    Posts: 503
    Member
    edited February 2019
    AKradian wrote: »
    Disclaimer: The following are my personal opinions and thoughts, which do not represent anything Nexon or my fellow VFMs might be thinking.

    First, a personal confession: I like plentiful, fast spawn.
    I just find it a lot more fun to hit a lot of enemies at once, than to chase them down one or two at a time.
    I remember back when I started playing, in 2008, one of the things I enjoyed the most was CPQ. Trade wins, max Trojans and Haste. As a Fighter I had the amazing mobbing skill Slash Blast, which could hit up to 6 enemies at once - provided they were really close, because back then melee was really melee. And CPQ let that actually happen. I could stand there and spam Slash Blast and hear and see it hit 4-6 Trojans every time. It was fun.
    And I remember LKC when we first got it, when the mobs were like mini-bosses that no-one could hope to 1-hit, but were also a sparse few per map. The EXP was great, but it wasn't nearly as much fun. It felt so wasteful to be using a skill that could hit 3 enemies on just one or two at a time, and to spend so much of my time walking to the next enemy (Warriors didn't have FJ back then).
    So, for my own personal biased sense of fun, I'd prefer a solution that allows increased spawn to continue to exist, rather than a solution that takes it away and increases EXP and Drop instead.

    In addition to that, we have the problem that increased EXP and Drop would stack with Frenzy (and we all know Frenzy is never getting removed). And we also still have all the "kill X enemies" quests that become more tedious on base spawn.

    "But Kishin makes the servers lag!"
    As some people pointed out before me, it can't be Kishin alone that's causing it. We had years of "glitched" spawn in all maps, and the servers didn't lag.
    In my opinion, what is causing the lag is the hackers that use Kishin - and then kill everything in the map faster than any legitimate player can. That, along with whatever new processing Nexon has added over the years to every skill cast and attack (some of it, ironically, in an effort to detect hacking), is what is overloading our servers. In my opinion.
    I don't know why Nexon has been unable to reliably detect this too-fast killing and ban for it. They keep false-flagging people who lag, instead.
    If they can get it right and force botters to kill at no better than legit player speed, I believe the server overload issue would be solved.
    But I will continue this post under the assumption that such detection is not feasible for them.

    Aside regarding motivation to cheat
    Reducing or removing the need for meso won't remove hacking bots from the game.
    It's human nature. As long as there is any challenge or difficulty at all in a game, there will be those willing to pay for shortcuts - and those willing to supply the shortcuts for a profit. All games suffer from cheaters. The games with fewer cheaters just have better technology to block or catch them, or better legal environment to scare them.
    And obviously we can't remove all challenge from the game, or it will just be "Welcome to Maplestory. You win!"

    So, the solution we should aim for, is one that would allow legitimate players to enjoy increased spawn, while making it considerably harder for cheaters to do so.

    Some ideas I have heard or thought of for how to do that:
    1. Solutions that leave the Kishin Shoukan skill as it is
      1. Make Kanna, like Zero and BT, only able to be created during specific events.
        This would mean that botters would not be able to instantly generate a new Kanna bot to replace one that got banned.
        Botters would still be able to create a "stockpile" of millions of Kanna accounts when it is opened for creation, and then start using them as needed. Nexon would need to develop some kind of tracking for such dormant accounts to hopefully detect and squash them as soon as they become active.
        Also, half-year intervals like Zero or BT might be too big. Reboot relies on Kanna meso farming, and a new player not able to do that for up to six months is at a severe disadvantage. Kanna creation events would need to be held at higher frequency than those other seasonal classes, at least for Reboot.
      2. Make Kanna, like Zero, only able to be created when there is already a high-level other character on the account.
        This would slow botters down some, as they would have to bot some other class to the specified high level before they can make the Kanna. It would give more time for Nexon to detect and ban the account before it starts being a big load on the servers.
    2. Solutions that remove the spawn effect from Kishin Shoukan (and solve the 2PC meta, while we're at it)
      1. Make "decent Monolith" skill nodes for 5th job.
        We know some bots do make it to 5th job, and supply the normal server Auction Houses with nodestones and droplets. However, there are far fewer of them than lower-level meso-farming bots in all other areas, either because they get caught or because their operators don't bother with 5th job. If the number of bots with spawn-increase capabilities remains low, the servers won't choke.
      2. Make "mini Frenzy" totems (expiring and with kishin-like spawn effect) available in a way bots can't exploit, such as:
        • Put a 30-day mini-Frenzy as one of the last items in Fairy Bros daily gifts.
          This would mean that an account newer than 3-4 weeks can't obtain it. Can we trust Nexon to detect and ban a bot laying low and doing Fairy Bros and nothing else for a month?
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Legion shop.
          Legion requires at least 5 characters over 60 and at least 500 cumulative levels on the account.
          Not that botters can't create that. But, again, it gives Nexon time to detect and ban the account before it becomes a server-load problem.
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Maple Rewards shop.
          Bots can be programmed to boss for Reward Points, of course. But it takes time to farm a significant amount of RP, and, again, more chance of getting detected and banned.
        • Change the ways mini-Frenzy is offered from month to month.
          Much like the hyper teleport rocks we get at random from Maple Missions, Hot Weeks, Fairy Bros, attendances, and other events. Would make it difficult for the bot-runners to keep programming their bots to do whatever is required to get the current mini-Frenzy.

    Opinions? Other ideas?
    about hackers
    only GM's can help that is activ on each server each day , autoban system should be only for GM alert
    all other ideas like that hurts/annoy legit players
    about frenzy/kish idea
    its good to dream but they wont change kish and paid spawn frenzy specialy now when its most wanted for 275
    ongoing p2w talk for years on reg server and items that sholdnt even be in the game ( reasons why reboot its most populated)
    if they wanted to change this they would not nerf spawn and just keep normal spawn without kish/frenzy

    good luck tho
    darik
  • microwavemicrowave
    Reactions: 425
    Posts: 22
    Member
    edited February 2019
    AKradian wrote: »
    Disclaimer: The following are my personal opinions and thoughts, which do not represent anything Nexon or my fellow VFMs might be thinking.

    First, a personal confession: I like plentiful, fast spawn.
    I just find it a lot more fun to hit a lot of enemies at once, than to chase them down one or two at a time.
    I remember back when I started playing, in 2008, one of the things I enjoyed the most was CPQ. Trade wins, max Trojans and Haste. As a Fighter I had the amazing mobbing skill Slash Blast, which could hit up to 6 enemies at once - provided they were really close, because back then melee was really melee. And CPQ let that actually happen. I could stand there and spam Slash Blast and hear and see it hit 4-6 Trojans every time. It was fun.
    And I remember LKC when we first got it, when the mobs were like mini-bosses that no-one could hope to 1-hit, but were also a sparse few per map. The EXP was great, but it wasn't nearly as much fun. It felt so wasteful to be using a skill that could hit 3 enemies on just one or two at a time, and to spend so much of my time walking to the next enemy (Warriors didn't have FJ back then).
    So, for my own personal biased sense of fun, I'd prefer a solution that allows increased spawn to continue to exist, rather than a solution that takes it away and increases EXP and Drop instead.

    In addition to that, we have the problem that increased EXP and Drop would stack with Frenzy (and we all know Frenzy is never getting removed). And we also still have all the "kill X enemies" quests that become more tedious on base spawn.

    "But Kishin makes the servers lag!"
    As some people pointed out before me, it can't be Kishin alone that's causing it. We had years of "glitched" spawn in all maps, and the servers didn't lag.
    In my opinion, what is causing the lag is the hackers that use Kishin - and then kill everything in the map faster than any legitimate player can. That, along with whatever new processing Nexon has added over the years to every skill cast and attack (some of it, ironically, in an effort to detect hacking), is what is overloading our servers. In my opinion.
    I don't know why Nexon has been unable to reliably detect this too-fast killing and ban for it. They keep false-flagging people who lag, instead.
    If they can get it right and force botters to kill at no better than legit player speed, I believe the server overload issue would be solved.
    But I will continue this post under the assumption that such detection is not feasible for them.

    Aside regarding motivation to cheat
    Reducing or removing the need for meso won't remove hacking bots from the game.
    It's human nature. As long as there is any challenge or difficulty at all in a game, there will be those willing to pay for shortcuts - and those willing to supply the shortcuts for a profit. All games suffer from cheaters. The games with fewer cheaters just have better technology to block or catch them, or better legal environment to scare them.
    And obviously we can't remove all challenge from the game, or it will just be "Welcome to Maplestory. You win!"

    So, the solution we should aim for, is one that would allow legitimate players to enjoy increased spawn, while making it considerably harder for cheaters to do so.

    Some ideas I have heard or thought of for how to do that:
    1. Solutions that leave the Kishin Shoukan skill as it is
      1. Make Kanna, like Zero and BT, only able to be created during specific events.
        This would mean that botters would not be able to instantly generate a new Kanna bot to replace one that got banned.
        Botters would still be able to create a "stockpile" of millions of Kanna accounts when it is opened for creation, and then start using them as needed. Nexon would need to develop some kind of tracking for such dormant accounts to hopefully detect and squash them as soon as they become active.
        Also, half-year intervals like Zero or BT might be too big. Reboot relies on Kanna meso farming, and a new player not able to do that for up to six months is at a severe disadvantage. Kanna creation events would need to be held at higher frequency than those other seasonal classes, at least for Reboot.
      2. Make Kanna, like Zero, only able to be created when there is already a high-level other character on the account.
        This would slow botters down some, as they would have to bot some other class to the specified high level before they can make the Kanna. It would give more time for Nexon to detect and ban the account before it starts being a big load on the servers.
    2. Solutions that remove the spawn effect from Kishin Shoukan (and solve the 2PC meta, while we're at it)
      1. Make "decent Monolith" skill nodes for 5th job.
        We know some bots do make it to 5th job, and supply the normal server Auction Houses with nodestones and droplets. However, there are far fewer of them than lower-level meso-farming bots in all other areas, either because they get caught or because their operators don't bother with 5th job. If the number of bots with spawn-increase capabilities remains low, the servers won't choke.
      2. Make "mini Frenzy" totems (expiring and with kishin-like spawn effect) available in a way bots can't exploit, such as:
        • Put a 30-day mini-Frenzy as one of the last items in Fairy Bros daily gifts.
          This would mean that an account newer than 3-4 weeks can't obtain it. Can we trust Nexon to detect and ban a bot laying low and doing Fairy Bros and nothing else for a month?
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Legion shop.
          Legion requires at least 5 characters over 60 and at least 500 cumulative levels on the account.
          Not that botters can't create that. But, again, it gives Nexon time to detect and ban the account before it becomes a server-load problem.
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Maple Rewards shop.
          Bots can be programmed to boss for Reward Points, of course. But it takes time to farm a significant amount of RP, and, again, more chance of getting detected and banned.
        • Change the ways mini-Frenzy is offered from month to month.
          Much like the hyper teleport rocks we get at random from Maple Missions, Hot Weeks, Fairy Bros, attendances, and other events. Would make it difficult for the bot-runners to keep programming their bots to do whatever is required to get the current mini-Frenzy.

    Opinions? Other ideas?

    pretty all but know Frenzy never getting removed ( first factor for people not have money quit whit the character kanna )
    second why only judge to the kannas hackers or botters .. and the arks? blaze wizards (again this are appearing again in the game)
    nexon never put mini frenzys due w is affect to the economy in part of the company
  • microwavemicrowave
    Reactions: 425
    Posts: 22
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.

    What about the Frenzy Totem then?

    It should go as well, but seriously doubt that will happen, as nexon will lose money. A slighty nerfed version is the best we can hope imo.
    SuperJonic wrote: »
    To be fair, I don't see kishin as a problem. So why remove a skill to butcher the class even further?
    microwave wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.

    What about the Frenzy Totem then?

    another cancer more in the game and the worst of all ... when the frenzy totem appeared the game hurt more
    ShokunKaYo wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.

    What about the Frenzy Totem then?

    The thing about Frenzy totem is that it's not gonna get abused like kishin is being abused. They're items worth over 2 grand USD. There won't be bunch of hackers with multiple accounts meso botting with frenzy totems. Not really comparable

    Perhaps not but it would be really increase the pay2win gap in the game. A decent spawn should not be available for money like that in my opinion. A good spawn should be free and available for everyone that loves MapleStory.
    AKradian wrote: »
    Disclaimer: The following are my personal opinions and thoughts, which do not represent anything Nexon or my fellow VFMs might be thinking.

    First, a personal confession: I like plentiful, fast spawn.
    I just find it a lot more fun to hit a lot of enemies at once, than to chase them down one or two at a time.
    I remember back when I started playing, in 2008, one of the things I enjoyed the most was CPQ. Trade wins, max Trojans and Haste. As a Fighter I had the amazing mobbing skill Slash Blast, which could hit up to 6 enemies at once - provided they were really close, because back then melee was really melee. And CPQ let that actually happen. I could stand there and spam Slash Blast and hear and see it hit 4-6 Trojans every time. It was fun.
    And I remember LKC when we first got it, when the mobs were like mini-bosses that no-one could hope to 1-hit, but were also a sparse few per map. The EXP was great, but it wasn't nearly as much fun. It felt so wasteful to be using a skill that could hit 3 enemies on just one or two at a time, and to spend so much of my time walking to the next enemy (Warriors didn't have FJ back then).
    So, for my own personal biased sense of fun, I'd prefer a solution that allows increased spawn to continue to exist, rather than a solution that takes it away and increases EXP and Drop instead.

    In addition to that, we have the problem that increased EXP and Drop would stack with Frenzy (and we all know Frenzy is never getting removed). And we also still have all the "kill X enemies" quests that become more tedious on base spawn.

    "But Kishin makes the servers lag!"
    As some people pointed out before me, it can't be Kishin alone that's causing it. We had years of "glitched" spawn in all maps, and the servers didn't lag.
    In my opinion, what is causing the lag is the hackers that use Kishin - and then kill everything in the map faster than any legitimate player can. That, along with whatever new processing Nexon has added over the years to every skill cast and attack (some of it, ironically, in an effort to detect hacking), is what is overloading our servers. In my opinion.
    I don't know why Nexon has been unable to reliably detect this too-fast killing and ban for it. They keep false-flagging people who lag, instead.
    If they can get it right and force botters to kill at no better than legit player speed, I believe the server overload issue would be solved.
    But I will continue this post under the assumption that such detection is not feasible for them.

    Aside regarding motivation to cheat
    Reducing or removing the need for meso won't remove hacking bots from the game.
    It's human nature. As long as there is any challenge or difficulty at all in a game, there will be those willing to pay for shortcuts - and those willing to supply the shortcuts for a profit. All games suffer from cheaters. The games with fewer cheaters just have better technology to block or catch them, or better legal environment to scare them.
    And obviously we can't remove all challenge from the game, or it will just be "Welcome to Maplestory. You win!"

    So, the solution we should aim for, is one that would allow legitimate players to enjoy increased spawn, while making it considerably harder for cheaters to do so.

    Some ideas I have heard or thought of for how to do that:
    1. Solutions that leave the Kishin Shoukan skill as it is
      1. Make Kanna, like Zero and BT, only able to be created during specific events.
        This would mean that botters would not be able to instantly generate a new Kanna bot to replace one that got banned.
        Botters would still be able to create a "stockpile" of millions of Kanna accounts when it is opened for creation, and then start using them as needed. Nexon would need to develop some kind of tracking for such dormant accounts to hopefully detect and squash them as soon as they become active.
        Also, half-year intervals like Zero or BT might be too big. Reboot relies on Kanna meso farming, and a new player not able to do that for up to six months is at a severe disadvantage. Kanna creation events would need to be held at higher frequency than those other seasonal classes, at least for Reboot.
      2. Make Kanna, like Zero, only able to be created when there is already a high-level other character on the account.
        This would slow botters down some, as they would have to bot some other class to the specified high level before they can make the Kanna. It would give more time for Nexon to detect and ban the account before it starts being a big load on the servers.
    2. Solutions that remove the spawn effect from Kishin Shoukan (and solve the 2PC meta, while we're at it)
      1. Make "decent Monolith" skill nodes for 5th job.
        We know some bots do make it to 5th job, and supply the normal server Auction Houses with nodestones and droplets. However, there are far fewer of them than lower-level meso-farming bots in all other areas, either because they get caught or because their operators don't bother with 5th job. If the number of bots with spawn-increase capabilities remains low, the servers won't choke.
      2. Make "mini Frenzy" totems (expiring and with kishin-like spawn effect) available in a way bots can't exploit, such as:
        • Put a 30-day mini-Frenzy as one of the last items in Fairy Bros daily gifts.
          This would mean that an account newer than 3-4 weeks can't obtain it. Can we trust Nexon to detect and ban a bot laying low and doing Fairy Bros and nothing else for a month?
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Legion shop.
          Legion requires at least 5 characters over 60 and at least 500 cumulative levels on the account.
          Not that botters can't create that. But, again, it gives Nexon time to detect and ban the account before it becomes a server-load problem.
        • Put mini-Frenzy in the Maple Rewards shop.
          Bots can be programmed to boss for Reward Points, of course. But it takes time to farm a significant amount of RP, and, again, more chance of getting detected and banned.
        • Change the ways mini-Frenzy is offered from month to month.
          Much like the hyper teleport rocks we get at random from Maple Missions, Hot Weeks, Fairy Bros, attendances, and other events. Would make it difficult for the bot-runners to keep programming their bots to do whatever is required to get the current mini-Frenzy.

    Opinions? Other ideas?

    This solution is great. I 100% agree with everything. Only thing I would like to suggest is limiting account creation. Players should be allowed to own maximum of five accounts. Doing that would need some type of verification system, for instance phone verification or an authenticator. This has been suggested many times in the past by various players and volunteers. Botting is a circular problem, ban one and another appears. Stop the circle and the problem is reduced significantly. There will always be players that work around it, but making it harder to have accounts to cheat on is the best way to fight it in my opinion.

    limiting account only affect to players legitims ...., each player to today have 2 to 3 pc playing ms via laptops or pcs , users can change the dns and use vpns ( oh . manys do this to today in anyone cases ... , system of verification of phone ...whit autenticathor , men in internet have mays pagines nocives for create numbers telephones and emails fakes and center commercials for go to telephones to 3$ and whit chips cheaps ready or get a code whit a virtual phone , u not can ban for implement this to the force why maple story have manys problems apart of the lag of server and kishin acctually bugs,crashs,errors of visual,game launcher..., freeze whit spikes, gameguard .. Its implementation is only going to favor the hackers once again and the economy in the game will be catastrophic. because these cases in other old games were implemented and mostly failed and had to remove the verification code, even in the stock market, bets and even in cryptocurrencies to fail due to no solution in cases of losses or recovery in case of telephone verification, would you have to reconfigure everything for a job or botters?

    solution
    merge and join to all the worlds except reboot
    Kanna only able to be created during specific events
    decent monolith node
    sunset chaos: Solution: Despawn mobs in ALL empty maps. Like how when you enter a new map and there's no mobs because no one visited it yet. You have to wait a few seconds for them to spawn. Now change it so that it does this when players leave the map.
    sistem gm online "in the game" for report hackers
    matenance of days for fix bugs or errors ( this happened years ago in its beginnings with wizet)
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 6,820
    Posts: 1,280
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    microwave wrote: »
    limiting account only affect to players legitims ...., each player to today have 2 to 3 pc playing ms via laptops or pcs , users can change the dns and use vpns ( oh . manys do this to today in anyone cases ... , system of verification of phone ...whit autenticathor , men in internet have mays pagines nocives for create numbers telephones and emails fakes and center commercials for go to telephones to 3$ and whit chips cheaps ready or get a code whit a virtual phone , u not can ban for implement this to the force why maple story have manys problems apart of the lag of server and kishin acctually bugs,crashs,errors of visual,game launcher..., freeze whit spikes, gameguard .. Its implementation is only going to favor the hackers once again and the economy in the game will be catastrophic. because these cases in other old games were implemented and mostly failed and had to remove the verification code, even in the stock market, bets and even in cryptocurrencies to fail due to no solution in cases of losses or recovery in case of telephone verification, would you have to reconfigure everything for a job or botters?

    solution
    merge and join to all the worlds except reboot
    Kanna only able to be created during specific events
    decent monolith node
    sunset chaos: Solution: Despawn mobs in ALL empty maps. Like how when you enter a new map and there's no mobs because no one visited it yet. You have to wait a few seconds for them to spawn. Now change it so that it does this when players leave the map.
    sistem gm online "in the game" for report hackers
    matenance of days for fix bugs or errors ( this happened years ago in its beginnings with wizet)
    Language detected, English: Accuracy, 60%. Translations may not be 100% accurate.
    If you're trying to argue against 2factor auth because phones can be lost, that doesn't stop a TON of markets from using it.
    Also you can set it so that the phone number is only required to create, not login or change info (but with the option to opt into these.)
    It won't stop hacking 100%, but nothing will. As much as I hate to admit a phone could be useful for once, it would slow them down at least.
  • darikdarik
    Reactions: 3,150
    Posts: 601
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Maybe to avoid that 2 pc meta, there could be developed someting that detects 2 comps logging from the same ip and blocking one of those and only being able to log from 1 comp with that IP adress? Also in addition to this the improvements in map spawn that everyones already mentioned.
  • darikdarik
    Reactions: 3,150
    Posts: 601
    Member
    edited February 2019
    microwave wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    Invulgo wrote: »
    Harmless wrote: »
    It is the cancer that is killing this game.


    matenance of days for fix bugs or errors ( this happened years ago in its beginnings with wizet)
    Savage ace already adressed this issue, theres no point in doing a kaintenance of days when they dont know how to fix a thing, they would have the game down for no reason at all , which is quite ridiculous and nonsense, when they took the game down for 24hrs+ years ago was because there were major hacking and glitch issues that made taking the game down a must in order to stop this exploits from happening.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,815
    Posts: 6,244
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    darik wrote: »
    Maybe to avoid that 2 pc meta, there could be developed someting that detects 2 comps logging from the same ip and blocking one of those and only being able to log from 1 comp with that IP adress? Also in addition to this the improvements in map spawn that everyones already mentioned.

    The people using two computers are not cheaters that need blocking. It's not against the rules to do it.
    On the other hand, your suggestion would also make it impossible for two people in the same house, or the same college dorm, or the same PC-cafe, to play Maple at the same time. That's definitely something neither Nexon nor the players want.
    Besides, the one-per-IP restriction would be very easy to circumvent.

    The problem with the 2PC meta is that people feel forced to acquire a second computer, and make a second account headed by a high-level Kanna, just to progress effectively on their main account. Removing Kishin's spawn effects, with or without one of the replacements suggested upthread, would remove the need for a second computer.
    SlicedTimeFuhreakWZrkdarikYuiko20
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 3,170
    Posts: 503
    Member
    edited February 2019
    you know decent frenzy skill can be abused by hackers mules even more then makeing kanna mules
    AKradian wrote: »
    darik wrote: »
    Maybe to avoid that 2 pc meta, there could be developed someting that detects 2 comps logging from the same ip and blocking one of those and only being able to log from 1 comp with that IP adress? Also in addition to this the improvements in map spawn that everyones already mentioned.

    The people using two computers are not cheaters that need blocking. It's not against the rules to do it.
    On the other hand, your suggestion would also make it impossible for two people in the same house, or the same college dorm, or the same PC-cafe, to play Maple at the same time. That's definitely something neither Nexon nor the players want.
    Besides, the one-per-IP restriction would be very easy to circumvent.

    The problem with the 2PC meta is that people feel forced to acquire a second computer, and make a second account headed by a high-level Kanna, just to progress effectively on their main account. Removing Kishin's spawn effects, with or without one of the replacements suggested upthread, would remove the need for a second computer.
    2pc meta can be done if they make harder gameplay
    for example
    if kanna mule that sits there without any action for 3-5sec+ dmg intake x2 def cut x2, pet pot disable.....
    or make kish to work only in att animation

    (alltho 90% of players that mule kanna use macros.keyweight to spam kish and other stuff)
    before you tell me not true chek streamers/youtube grind videos and their kanna mules continuously spaming kish ( you cant see the skill animation or barely see but you can see their kanna mule "dance" each time they cast )

    best solution remove kish and frenzy bring normal spawn and make maplestory great again
    (kish remove i mean remove the mobs spawn line you can keep kish for mobing)
    #dream #f2p
    who know maybe new CEO & company that we get at end of feb/march will make some changes
    Deutsche Securities, supervisor of the sale of Nexon, set the date for preliminary bids for Feb. 21
    http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190131000671
  • SpairahSpairah
    Reactions: 400
    Posts: 8
    Member
    edited February 2019
    I grinded to 235 via solo progression on reboot without a second PC for kishin. I felt more and more demoralized after seeing massive difference in meso/exp with and without Kishin. Lately, I've been finding kannabot hot spots, and simply grinding once the kannabot leaves, but the kishin effect is still in place. I switch channels every 2-3 mins to find a kannabot for a new set of kishin. I ended up getting more exp than if I just stayed in one channel and grinded like how the game is supposed to be played. During my 220-230 time, I grinded in the black mage event maps, searching for a Kanna that has a kishin effect up on the map; that was the only time I felt motivated to gain exp. Kishin is brutally demoralizing for someone who wishes to enter mid-late game, but has no access to it. I do not wish to see it nerfed/removed, but rather given to players who do not have access to it. There is much to debate about it, but this is how I feel about it; a demoralizing ability to those who do not have access to it.
    DarkPassengerWZrkdarikxparasite9
  • BandaBanda
    Reactions: 1,125
    Posts: 49
    Member
    edited February 2019
    As with most rpg the use of a second pc will always provide a huge boost to your gameplay, if only for the fact it makes muling easier and gives Access to more party-buffs.
    If you consider the fact that most of the items needed to Play end Content and bosses (lvl 220+ content) will cost you about the Price of a second pc for each item, you Need to be Aware that if you do not have that Kind of Money to spend you will run into a brick wall of dissapointment once you reach lvl 220-230. (a good set of endequips will cost you somewhere between a car and a house)
    Cubing to get the right stats on an item is tremendously expensive, and the Need for those items only Shows at higher lvl. This is probably the reason nexon is making it easier for us to attain These higher Levels so they can start making Money on us =)

    A second pc is never a musthave, but most People are happy with it because in maple it is about the cheapest way to boost your gameplay. Please do not take away this cheap boost to our gaming addiction.

    As for kishin getting abused by hackers and thus causing lag to Servers there is a simple solution.
    Just make it harder for Players to obtain the skill by rewriting the kanna storyline a bit when revamping kanna.

    If you give certain prerogatives to the use of kishin, this would weed out the hackers and leave only legit players to use the skill.
    e,g, must have completed Gold beach, School academy and mushroom Castle to obtain a first weak Version of kishin.
    must have completed another number of storylines to get a second better Version of kishin. (like gollux prequest, and others which take hours to complete)
    and so on

    this way legit Players can put in the effort to Keep their skill, and hackers have to spend a lot of time on it with the risk of having to do it all over if they ever get caught hacking.

    The final Version of kishin as we have it now could be made available at lvl 190 like a hyper skill, or at lvl 210 like a linkskill, making it hard for new accounts to fully exploit kishin.

    With such a new storyline and added requirements nexon could even go further and make still higher Versions of kishin (equal to frenzy) obtainable after completing end Content like killing lucid, will or higher bosses. Thus it could provide end game Players a nice alternative to spending 50000k nx to obtain a frenzy totem. Instead of pushing away their playerbase this would motivate them to stay on and Play even more.

    Just root out the kishin hackers this way and let the legit Players enjoy their game. This solution requires a Minimum of effort from nexon to apply, and lets hackers put their efforts in other classes than the poor kanna class.

    P:S: dont Forget to restore the 70% damage kanna lost because of the haku nerf, we are in dire Need of a revamp =)
    xparasite9
  • ShadEightShadEight
    Reactions: 3,110
    Posts: 381
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Banda wrote: »
    This solution requires a Minimum of effort from nexon to apply, and lets hackers put their efforts in other classes than the poor kanna class
    If it was minimum effort it would already be implemented by now. Reorganizing class content isn't something GMS does these days. And hackers can get to 200 in a few hours, there is really no way to 'weed them out' as they progress much faster than regular players, skip questlines instantly and solo the hardest of bosses without breaking a sweat. All this does is gatekeep legit players from having access to kishin.
    darik