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Thoughts on Kanna and Fury Totem Changes

Comments

  • TheObservantTheObservant
    Reactions: 630
    Posts: 12
    Member
    edited June 2020
    Eikahe wrote: »

    I agree so sincerely with this entire statement. The fix to all of this isn't to punish everyone who doesn't play Kanna by making it harder for them to train. The best and healthiest way to adjust the 2PC meta has always been to make spawn rate increasing much more accessible to all players. If people had no reason to build a second account just to level past a certain point or didn't feel shoehorned into playing a singular class in order to progress, then people absolutely would. If Kishin was turned into a V Node like Decent Holy Symbol, started at ~50% uptime at level 1 and increased to 100% by the time you got it to max, the servers would be much more stable, people could play any class OTHER than Kanna without being punished for not having one. Totems, as they exist now, could be used as an aid for lower level training or could be used to bridge the gap until the V Node is leveled, thus opening up Totem use for other characters players might want to level. The best part about all of that is that Kanna would remain great and efficient at her job, but people would be able to progress at similar rates with their OWN classes. It would open the possibility for farming to happen naturally.

    The only "problem" I could see with V Node Kishin is that people could opt to make a "Kishin mule" for characters below level 200, but... let's be real. 1-200 is essentially the tutorial for any class you're playing and the effect would be so minimal that people wouldn't really bother unless they were absolutely tryharding to level as fast as possible. It wouldn't be an issue at all, and instead of using monthly totems on mains, they'd be used on alts anyways, so even that problem wouldn't be as egregious as anyone would believe it to be.

    The worst part about all of this is that Nexon won't read a single word of it, and it's disappointing. They fixed this same problem before with Bishops and 2PC, but refuse to do the exact same thing with this and make everyone's lives much easier. If anything I posted here could reach the higher ups and make a difference, it would mean so much. I truly believe making Kishin a Nodestone skill would fix virtually everything, reduce the reliance on 2PC, and maintain Kanna's identity with Kishin with these current changes that reward active play VS AFKing.

    It's really a no brainer what they have to do, I don't understand why it hasn't been done yet. Most other unbalanced things have been fixed. HS mules? Fixed. Archmage ultimates don't have a cooldown? Fixed. AFK Leeching? Fixed. All of these things were nerfed but something was added in its place to compensate. Free EXP buffs and the decent HS node was what balanced the HS nerf. Giving other classes decent mobbing skills and making the exp curve less steep was what balanced ultimates getting a cooldown. The addition of burning fields, places like the dojo training center and AFK events that give exp/free levels was what balanced AFK leeching when party exp got nerfed. But for some reason kishin mules, which are putting unnecessary strain on the servers, continue to exist with nothing to balance out all of these nerfs. If you go on Orangemushroom right now and search 'spawn rate' you'll see posts dating back 3 years where KMS gets spawn rate improvements, on top of map layout improvements to make training more efficient. Where is that being done in GMS? I agree a V node would be a huge step in the right direction, and would make people more comfortable with farming on their main. But honestly increasing the spawn rate and removing kishin altogether would be the simplest fix from a developer standpoint, and would be the truest way to achieve balance.

    I don't wanna bring up pottable badges but that's exactly what this feels like. They took away a feature and gave us nothing to compensate for it. It caused a gap between old and new players and people are still crying about it. It wouldn't be so bad if we could starforce badges, or they gave better stats to make up for the damage lost from no potential. But we didn't get that, so people are STILL upset about it. Like you said in another thread, the reason people aren't upset at the HS nerf is because we got something to even it out. This kishin and fury nerf leaves us with nothing. And the real kick in the teeth is that Frenzy remains untouched. A cash item that people shell out thousands of dollars for. Something that people pay other players in-game for the service (just like people used to pay for leech, but that got fixed). Funny how a skill and a totem players can get for free are somehow hurting the balance, but this item that costs more than I pay in rent every month is just fine. Right.
    WONDERGUY
  • DebtEUDebtEU
    Reactions: 540
    Posts: 4
    Member
    edited June 2020
    What are the reasons behind the Kishin changes?
    What are those changes supposed to achieve?
    How are they minimizing the gap between Kanna and other classes?
    WONDERGUY
  • LostxLostx
    Reactions: 1,265
    Posts: 32
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2020
    It's really a no brainer what they have to do, I don't understand why it hasn't been done yet. Most other unbalanced things have been fixed. HS mules? Fixed. Archmage ultimates don't have a cooldown? Fixed. AFK Leeching? Fixed. All of these things were nerfed but something was added in its place to compensate. Free EXP buffs and the decent HS node was what balanced the HS nerf. Giving other classes decent mobbing skills and making the exp curve less steep was what balanced ultimates getting a cooldown. The addition of burning fields, places like the dojo training center and AFK events that give exp/free levels was what balanced AFK leeching when party exp got nerfed. But for some reason kishin mules, which are putting unnecessary strain on the servers, continue to exist with nothing to balance out all of these nerfs. If you go on Orangemushroom right now and search 'spawn rate' you'll see posts dating back 3 years where KMS gets spawn rate improvements, on top of map layout improvements to make training more efficient. Where is that being done in GMS? I agree a V node would be a huge step in the right direction, and would make people more comfortable with farming on their main. But honestly increasing the spawn rate and removing kishin altogether would be the simplest fix from a developer standpoint, and would be the truest way to achieve balance.

    HS Mules not fixed and not compensated for - Decent HS already had existed for 6+ months, there was no compensation for the nerf to Holy symbol.

    AFK Leeching not fixed - All you have to do now is hold down the attack button now, no compensation added.

    You seem to be giving natural game progression reductions to allow newer players to focus on current content as one of the "Fixes" but... that's not a fix for that.

    Burning Fields was an attempt to make other maps have more of an incentive to train at instead of crowding one map.

    The AFK exp events are literally there for people that work/school while that might be some of the reason for AFK leeching, it's not all of them.

    Other things not actually compensated for
    -Drop rate nerfs
    -Node droprate nerfs in VJ only
    -Loss of a Badge
    -Lab server BONUS legion pieces
    - HS Nerf
    - Party Meso nerf
    - the near countless amount of times that Emobs/bosses suddenly go from dropping flames, MCCs, cubic blades, etc into dropping almost nothing

    KrownopWONDERGUY
  • TheObservantTheObservant
    Reactions: 630
    Posts: 12
    Member
    edited June 2020
    Lostx wrote: »

    HS Mules not fixed and not compensated for - Decent HS already had existed for 6+ months, there was no compensation for the nerf to Holy symbol.

    AFK Leeching not fixed - All you have to do now is hold down the attack button now, no compensation added.

    You seem to be giving natural game progression reductions to allow newer players to focus on current content as one of the "Fixes" but... that's not a fix for that.

    Burning Fields was an attempt to make other maps have more of an incentive to train at instead of crowding one map.

    The AFK exp events are literally there for people that work/school while that might be some of the reason for AFK leeching, it's not all of them.

    Other things not actually compensated for
    -Drop rate nerfs
    -Node droprate nerfs in VJ only
    -Loss of a Badge
    -Lab server BONUS legion pieces
    - HS Nerf
    - Party Meso nerf
    - the near countless amount of times that Emobs/bosses suddenly go from dropping flames, MCCs, cubic blades, etc into dropping almost nothing

    We have free 2x/1.5x coupons from monster park sundays, legion exp coupons and growth potions, craftable exp potions, monster park yellow exp potions, and free spirit pendants from fairy bros and event shops. We absolutely have compensation for the HS nerf because those things help bridge the exp gap between training with HS and training without it.

    I consider AFK leeching to be mostly fixed because there aren't nearly as many people doing it nowadays, partly because people no longer feel the need to AFK leech at all and if they want to get exp when AFK they can go to the dojo training center or use an AFK event. To be honest, AFK leeching didn't deserve a workaround in my opinion. Why should you get exp if you aren't even playing the game? However, people would've thrown a fit without some way to get exp while AFK, so I mentioned that at least they provided a way to get around not being able to fully leech off someone.

    And you seem to not understand that reducing the progression in early game is what balances out the removal of party play hunting and the HS nerf. They don't have to say 'this is to compensate for X nerf' in the patch notes for it to have a positive, balancing side effect. I agree burning fields were intended to reduce crowding in popular maps, but it has an added benefit of softening the blow of not having HS if you find a burning field. Same with AFK events. No, it's not explicitly stated anywhere that places you can AFK to get exp were introduced to combat AFK leeching, but it is one of the benefits.

    I agree those other things need to be looked at, besides the HS nerf because we literally have a decent HS 5th job node, but that's not the point of this thread. The point of the thread is that kishin is broken as a skill and toxic to the meta, similar to how HS mules were before the major nerf. Nexon's claim that nerfing it is for the sake of balance is a load of bull because there's nothing on the other side of the equation to balance the nerf. Myself and many others would rather see this skill removed entirely and have the base spawn rate increased instead.
    darikAaronHusky
  • SaixSaix
    Reactions: 640
    Posts: 6
    Member
    edited June 2020
    Another set of changes nobody asked for, and yet, they did it anyways. How can they be so out of touch?

    The game population will surely increase during the Rise update, but after that, players will realise Nexon sucks. Keep buffing a cash-related items by nerfing everything else, way to go. Keep making F2P suffer from longer progression time, soon they'll realise how this game is a waste of time.

    And lets wait for another useless memo like the last one, that don't address our complaints and the problems the game have.

  • EikaheEikahe
    Reactions: 1,355
    Posts: 55
    Member
    edited June 2020
    Eikahe wrote: »

    I agree so sincerely with this entire statement. The fix to all of this isn't to punish everyone who doesn't play Kanna by making it harder for them to train. The best and healthiest way to adjust the 2PC meta has always been to make spawn rate increasing much more accessible to all players. If people had no reason to build a second account just to level past a certain point or didn't feel shoehorned into playing a singular class in order to progress, then people absolutely would. If Kishin was turned into a V Node like Decent Holy Symbol, started at ~50% uptime at level 1 and increased to 100% by the time you got it to max, the servers would be much more stable, people could play any class OTHER than Kanna without being punished for not having one. Totems, as they exist now, could be used as an aid for lower level training or could be used to bridge the gap until the V Node is leveled, thus opening up Totem use for other characters players might want to level. The best part about all of that is that Kanna would remain great and efficient at her job, but people would be able to progress at similar rates with their OWN classes. It would open the possibility for farming to happen naturally.

    The only "problem" I could see with V Node Kishin is that people could opt to make a "Kishin mule" for characters below level 200, but... let's be real. 1-200 is essentially the tutorial for any class you're playing and the effect would be so minimal that people wouldn't really bother unless they were absolutely tryharding to level as fast as possible. It wouldn't be an issue at all, and instead of using monthly totems on mains, they'd be used on alts anyways, so even that problem wouldn't be as egregious as anyone would believe it to be.

    The worst part about all of this is that Nexon won't read a single word of it, and it's disappointing. They fixed this same problem before with Bishops and 2PC, but refuse to do the exact same thing with this and make everyone's lives much easier. If anything I posted here could reach the higher ups and make a difference, it would mean so much. I truly believe making Kishin a Nodestone skill would fix virtually everything, reduce the reliance on 2PC, and maintain Kanna's identity with Kishin with these current changes that reward active play VS AFKing.

    It's really a no brainer what they have to do, I don't understand why it hasn't been done yet. Most other unbalanced things have been fixed. HS mules? Fixed. Archmage ultimates don't have a cooldown? Fixed. AFK Leeching? Fixed. All of these things were nerfed but something was added in its place to compensate. Free EXP buffs and the decent HS node was what balanced the HS nerf. Giving other classes decent mobbing skills and making the exp curve less steep was what balanced ultimates getting a cooldown. The addition of burning fields, places like the dojo training center and AFK events that give exp/free levels was what balanced AFK leeching when party exp got nerfed. But for some reason kishin mules, which are putting unnecessary strain on the servers, continue to exist with nothing to balance out all of these nerfs. If you go on Orangemushroom right now and search 'spawn rate' you'll see posts dating back 3 years where KMS gets spawn rate improvements, on top of map layout improvements to make training more efficient. Where is that being done in GMS? I agree a V node would be a huge step in the right direction, and would make people more comfortable with farming on their main. But honestly increasing the spawn rate and removing kishin altogether would be the simplest fix from a developer standpoint, and would be the truest way to achieve balance.

    I don't wanna bring up pottable badges but that's exactly what this feels like. They took away a feature and gave us nothing to compensate for it. It caused a gap between old and new players and people are still crying about it. It wouldn't be so bad if we could starforce badges, or they gave better stats to make up for the damage lost from no potential. But we didn't get that, so people are STILL upset about it. Like you said in another thread, the reason people aren't upset at the HS nerf is because we got something to even it out. This kishin and fury nerf leaves us with nothing. And the real kick in the teeth is that Frenzy remains untouched. A cash item that people shell out thousands of dollars for. Something that people pay other players in-game for the service (just like people used to pay for leech, but that got fixed). Funny how a skill and a totem players can get for free are somehow hurting the balance, but this item that costs more than I pay in rent every month is just fine. Right.

    I disagree with the notion that just increasing the spawn rate on every map will make things better and that it's the most simple solution because this game's coding is so botched and jumbled, attempting that would be a much more herculean task than people make it out to be. You have over a decade and a half of different versions of the game's coding shoved together into a Frankenstein mess that would probably take months, if not years, to properly sift through and fix properly. Instead of going through the hassle, it would be vastly easier to tie spawn rate increasing effects to a V Node or a link skill and simply allow everyone access to it without needing to tamper with the spawn rates and mob density of every map in the game to adjust for the powercreep of extreme mobility and high mobbing capability classes that are only getting better and better as time passes and the game continues to modernize.

    It would be such a simple fix to turn it into a Decent skill or make it part of Kanna's Link Skill compared to going through the mess of coding and fixing it that way.
  • LostxLostx
    Reactions: 1,265
    Posts: 32
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2020
    We have free 2x/1.5x coupons from monster park sundays, legion exp coupons and growth potions, craftable exp potions, monster park yellow exp potions, and free spirit pendants from fairy bros and event shops. We absolutely have compensation for the HS nerf because those things help bridge the exp gap between training with HS and training without it.

    That's literally acting like we didn't have ANY of these BEFORE the HS nerf, so that's just literally trying to push your own motto, we have had these all the time, and the main reason why it's not considered compensation is because they STACK.

    The main reason HS was nerfed wasn't to give other areas opportunity to shine, like Legion, like event 2x. It was because KMS higher end players were congregated around HS Mules in Ecyg which was easier to get and provided more reward than that of their Decent Holy Symbol which required a drastically larger amount of investment for less payout.

    But no continue on the tangent that it gave us opportunity for more 2x coupons....

    A lot of the actually changes were a result of issues the Devs in KMS had or felt that there was a problem. Their intention is to slow down progression around certain areas. Why do you think there's no burning maps below 100? You say Burning compensates for HS nerf but Burning was out LONG before the nerf, and how does something that STACKS means it "softens" the blow.

    If you actually look back at the patches, they will literally highlight specific changes as benefiting to the player, and specific nerfs they try to briefly mention.

    Legion wasn't meant to "replace HS" it's meant as an additional time sink for benefits to incentive creating other characters so that would be more likely to spend cash to dress/gear them up, the incentives to do this would be the Legion Meso, Legion EXP, Legion Drop. This plays on the Sunk cost fallacy where "Oh I spent all this time on the character getting it to 200, better make it look nice"

    The reason why MOST MMOs reduce early game is to give the newer players the ability to "catch up" and go to the part of progression that the devs want players to focus on during that patch.
    WONDERGUY
  • EikaheEikahe
    Reactions: 1,355
    Posts: 55
    Member
    edited June 2020
    Lostx wrote: »
    We have free 2x/1.5x coupons from monster park sundays, legion exp coupons and growth potions, craftable exp potions, monster park yellow exp potions, and free spirit pendants from fairy bros and event shops. We absolutely have compensation for the HS nerf because those things help bridge the exp gap between training with HS and training without it.

    That's literally acting like we didn't have ANY of these BEFORE the HS nerf, so that's just literally trying to push your own motto, we have had these all the time, and the main reason why it's not considered compensation is because they STACK.

    The main reason HS was nerfed wasn't to give other areas opportunity to shine, like Legion, like event 2x. It was because KMS higher end players were congregated around HS Mules in Ecyg which was easier to get and provided more reward than that of their Decent Holy Symbol which required a drastically larger amount of investment for less payout.

    But no continue on the tangent that it gave us opportunity for more 2x coupons....

    A lot of the actually changes were a result of issues the Devs in KMS had or felt that there was a problem. Their intention is to slow down progression around certain areas. Why do you think there's no burning maps below 100? You say Burning compensates for HS nerf but Burning was out LONG before the nerf, and how does something that STACKS means it "softens" the blow.

    If you actually look back at the patches, they will literally highlight specific changes as benefiting to the player, and specific nerfs they try to briefly mention.

    Legion wasn't meant to "replace HS" it's meant as an additional time sink for benefits to incentive creating other characters so that would be more likely to spend cash to dress/gear them up, the incentives to do this would be the Legion Meso, Legion EXP, Legion Drop. This plays on the Sunk cost fallacy where "Oh I spent all this time on the character getting it to 200, better make it look nice"

    The reason why MOST MMOs reduce early game is to give the newer players the ability to "catch up" and go to the part of progression that the devs want players to focus on during that patch.

    While we didn't have these before, they made them more readily available and more accessible. Alternatives to the previous HS were given in much easier, more accessible ways so that there wasn't any need to create Bishop mules and drop them at Easy Cygnus to warp back and forth to. By doing that, people stopped needing to make Bishop mules because there are plenty of alternatives to work around it.
  • TheObservantTheObservant
    Reactions: 630
    Posts: 12
    Member
    edited June 2020
    Lostx wrote: »
    The main reason HS was nerfed wasn't to give other areas opportunity to shine, like Legion, like event 2x.

    I'm agreeing with you. I said easier access to exp buffs made the HS nerf sting less. People don't care that HS got nerfed partly BECAUSE of those things. I'm not saying that easier access to exp buffs, legion, burning fields, etc were a direct result of the HS nerfs. I'm well aware that faster early game progression has nothing to do with HS from Nexon's perspective. I'm well aware that legion was not intended to replace HS. My "tangent" is because you misunderstood my initial point, and maybe that's on me for not wording myself properly before. I'm aware that Nexon did not sit down and say "Hey let's give easy access to exp buffs and make early game progression faster because of the HS nerf" nor did they highlight in in the patch notes because I KNOW that's not how it went.

    My point this entire time has been that there is a reason why people no longer feel pressed to make HS mules, nor do they complain all that much that it's been nerfed. People level so fast in early game it doesn't matter anymore, and we have exp buffs with the decent HS node in late game. In order for people to shut up about the kishin and totem nerf, something similar needs to happen to balance it out. Instead of people saying "yeah this nerf isn't that bad because of X factors in the game" people are now saying "3 PC META" and it's ridiculous.
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 3,070
    Posts: 498
    Member
    edited June 2020
    Lostx wrote: »
    The main reason HS was nerfed wasn't to give other areas opportunity to shine, like Legion, like event 2x.

    I'm agreeing with you. I said easier access to exp buffs made the HS nerf sting less. People don't care that HS got nerfed partly BECAUSE of those things. I'm not saying that easier access to exp buffs, legion, burning fields, etc were a direct result of the HS nerfs. I'm well aware that faster early game progression has nothing to do with HS from Nexon's perspective. I'm well aware that legion was not intended to replace HS. My "tangent" is because you misunderstood my initial point, and maybe that's on me for not wording myself properly before. I'm aware that Nexon did not sit down and say "Hey let's give easy access to exp buffs and make early game progression faster because of the HS nerf" nor did they highlight in in the patch notes because I KNOW that's not how it went.

    My point this entire time has been that there is a reason why people no longer feel pressed to make HS mules, nor do they complain all that much that it's been nerfed. People level so fast in early game it doesn't matter anymore, and we have exp buffs with the decent HS node in late game. In order for people to shut up about the kishin and totem nerf, something similar needs to happen to balance it out. Instead of people saying "yeah this nerf isn't that bad because of X factors in the game" people are now saying "3 PC META" and it's ridiculous.

    actually HS nerf stings less because the gap between decent HS and HS its not that big and decent HS its easier accessible for all
    (there is so many suggestion for decent kish node that were also nice but nexon ignored...)
    the powergap between frenzy vs new nerfed kish/totem its way to big and stings more
    grinding on base"normal" spawn its more ridiculous then 2pc meta or the new 3pc meta thats its allready ridiculous...

    also there is factors like we say " its nexon deaf ears we wont change anything might aswell move on as it is " cease alot of complains

    again nexon need to make their minds what they want and stop contradict themself
    if nexon wants to slow down lvling take off or limit the use of MVP, 2x coupons from CS, ,firestarter rings, frenzy, dont add burn events etc etc or limit them who can use and how...
    or like nerf-balance class because its to "powerfull" then go and sell BoD,legendary familiars,engame best in slot boss gear.... in lootbox
    darik
  • McFookinMcFookin
    Reactions: 415
    Posts: 3
    Member
    edited June 2020
    I don't have anything new to say that hasn't been said already but what I can voice is my discontent with these changes. Why implement yet another speed bump in an already slow progression game? Whoever is in charge of these changes does not respect our time. All I can do is refuse to play the game until an improvement is made.
    WONDERGUYdarik
  • ApocalyptianApocalyptian
    Reactions: 1,910
    Posts: 140
    Member
    edited June 2020
    I think instead they need to merge the gap between people who throw tons of money at this game and ones who only throw a little at it.
    Chosing to mess up with most of your unpaying or small purchase using accounts is going to make things so much more frustrating and people will end up quitting again. Sorry I'm not rich I don't have a fury totem. If I did I would have sold it anyway lol still...it should be the same, the item from long time ago and what we work hard for in reward points. It's only fair....
  • BoredEricaBoredErica
    Reactions: 440
    Posts: 15
    Member
    edited June 2020
    I think they should make Kish a node skill so people are less pressured to have a Kanna. The current nerfs seem to hurt non-Kannas than Kannas, which just makes Kanna more essential. At this point I'd rather Kish be removed entirely than have to deal with any more weird changes. I'd rather not have to deal with any of this than to have to work with a jank Kish, where I suffer using but still feel obligated to use it to get the best rates. I'm personally okay with a slower game, even if it screws over so many people who haven't farmed much yet.

    This honestly feels like the worst possible timeline for me.

    Also, just stop making new classes and rebalance the old classes satisfactorily. If a class is to be OP, make it OP. Don't nerf it after people have sunk time into the characters. Of course they'd be upset.
    WONDERGUYdarik
  • EikaheEikahe
    Reactions: 1,355
    Posts: 55
    Member
    edited June 2020
    BoredErica wrote: »
    I think they should make Kish a node skill so people are less pressured to have a Kanna. The current nerfs seem to hurt non-Kannas than Kannas, which just makes Kanna more essential. At this point I'd rather Kish be removed entirely than have to deal with any more weird changes. I'd rather not have to deal with any of this than to have to work with a jank Kish, where I suffer using but still feel obligated to use it to get the best rates. I'm personally okay with a slower game, even if it screws over so many people who haven't farmed much yet.

    This honestly feels like the worst possible timeline for me.

    Also, just stop making new classes and rebalance the old classes satisfactorily. If a class is to be OP, make it OP. Don't nerf it after people have sunk time into the characters. Of course they'd be upset.

    I personally don't want to see spawn rate increasers removed completely from the game, because our community isn't KMS - Western players have never been on the same hardcore grind standard as Korean players, so trying to force the game into an even tighter niche than it really needs to be only hurts the health of the game, which is, ironically, the exact opposite of what Nexon is touting they're doing with these "balance changes". But making spawn rate increasers accessible to everyone would make it so I wouldn't have to feel forced to play Kanna in order to gear every other class in the game up to a decent standard. Totems don't work - they're too expensive and they're too limited to make any sort of difference at all beyond a rare luxury every once in a blue moon.
    darik
  • KevinZamoraKevinZamora
    Reactions: 400
    Posts: 10
    Member
    edited June 2020
    BoredErica wrote: »
    I think they should make Kish a node skill so people are less pressured to have a Kanna. The current nerfs seem to hurt non-Kannas than Kannas, which just makes Kanna more essential. At this point I'd rather Kish be removed entirely than have to deal with any more weird changes. I'd rather not have to deal with any of this than to have to work with a jank Kish, where I suffer using but still feel obligated to use it to get the best rates. I'm personally okay with a slower game, even if it screws over so many people who haven't farmed much yet.

    This honestly feels like the worst possible timeline for me.

    Also, just stop making new classes and rebalance the old classes satisfactorily. If a class is to be OP, make it OP. Don't nerf it after people have sunk time into the characters. Of course they'd be upset.

    100 Agree with you , but Nexon and producers literally annihilated the game with these latest changes. from add masteria .. (wow hi anyone training here? oh yes server reboot to today booters blasters and kanna) .. gollux ... the worst .. basic ideas ..pressure people want a rewamp, if it was their right ..but nexon ruined something simple and remove the progress of medium and low progress players .. removing the old gollux coins and replacing them with new ones ... the entry in lvl 170 was an optical illusion xd ...., medium, intermediate and well ... with that increased hp, attack, def, 1 entry a day and the drop .. ... for the hell I'm going to go to gollux better I go to the AH or together my mesos is a farm less .. .maple tour ... ursus ... forgotten ... seriousness ok ... with maple and its bosses and changes ...

    and because these failures are mentioned, which are only miserable and some ... since if we count all of them up to ADELE's patch today ... it would be long .... as well as in reedit ... the good and the against and that can not be reversed because nexon did it

    if nexon hadn't released the ADELE patch and only had the patch and MEMO of nerf kanna-bt- untradeables cubes- furytotems but no changes to frenzy totem, zaz .. people were leaving the game, simple because you are annihilating reboot us eu ( eu worse ..) and also the other servers, but ANNA thought about it .. we give ADELE AND THE NERF AND KANNA AND ETC .... it is very easy to trick people to keep it in the game to get $$ of these and of course with this new Patch THE WINNERS ARE THE? WHALES .... IF THE WHALES .... people who have everything lvl, mesos, teams, have no life ... they are going to run bosses. streamers .. obviously also hacker people, people less mesos, buy .. with .. money, the 3 pc goal that nexon originated today you see the results ...

    .. one enters and looks WOW ... OMG ... the servers are full all the world is playing are 30 channels !!! ... those 30 shamans if they are full is because botters and hackers of different have already invaded everything and the channels are crashed as always if it is not 1 it is to another and the dc and lag and bugs continue ..

    So many and many servers checks and maintenance will come, but the memo where anna "we are going to be more these changes for greater stability of the game" nerf kanna furys, intradeables etc etc etc etc "did not help at all in the end, the game is the same , but worse things will come, here it cannot be shown ... but from the crown and the people return to the game it was the best. The disastrous changes made people leave the game again Kishin nodeskill should have been the solution to these problems a long time ago, but it is a 2d game and many people came to the head that kishin was the problem, when the game had years and years of their own problems, ok no nodeskill kishin, increase the respwan in the channels ok ... neither ... well when anna goes home and among others that if she thinks about the progress of all the players and company

    WONDERGUY
  • EikaheEikahe
    Reactions: 1,355
    Posts: 55
    Member
    edited June 2020
    BoredErica wrote: »
    I think they should make Kish a node skill so people are less pressured to have a Kanna. The current nerfs seem to hurt non-Kannas than Kannas, which just makes Kanna more essential. At this point I'd rather Kish be removed entirely than have to deal with any more weird changes. I'd rather not have to deal with any of this than to have to work with a jank Kish, where I suffer using but still feel obligated to use it to get the best rates. I'm personally okay with a slower game, even if it screws over so many people who haven't farmed much yet.

    This honestly feels like the worst possible timeline for me.

    Also, just stop making new classes and rebalance the old classes satisfactorily. If a class is to be OP, make it OP. Don't nerf it after people have sunk time into the characters. Of course they'd be upset.

    100 Agree with you , but Nexon and producers literally annihilated the game with these latest changes. from add masteria .. (wow hi anyone training here? oh yes server reboot to today booters blasters and kanna) .. gollux ... the worst .. basic ideas ..pressure people want a rewamp, if it was their right ..but nexon ruined something simple and remove the progress of medium and low progress players .. removing the old gollux coins and replacing them with new ones ... the entry in lvl 170 was an optical illusion xd ...., medium, intermediate and well ... with that increased hp, attack, def, 1 entry a day and the drop .. ... for the hell I'm going to go to gollux better I go to the AH or together my mesos is a farm less .. .maple tour ... ursus ... forgotten ... seriousness ok ... with maple and its bosses and changes ...

    and because these failures are mentioned, which are only miserable and some ... since if we count all of them up to ADELE's patch today ... it would be long .... as well as in reedit ... the good and the against and that can not be reversed because nexon did it

    if nexon hadn't released the ADELE patch and only had the patch and MEMO of nerf kanna-bt- untradeables cubes- furytotems but no changes to frenzy totem, zaz .. people were leaving the game, simple because you are annihilating reboot us eu ( eu worse ..) and also the other servers, but ANNA thought about it .. we give ADELE AND THE NERF AND KANNA AND ETC .... it is very easy to trick people to keep it in the game to get $$ of these and of course with this new Patch THE WINNERS ARE THE? WHALES .... IF THE WHALES .... people who have everything lvl, mesos, teams, have no life ... they are going to run bosses. streamers .. obviously also hacker people, people less mesos, buy .. with .. money, the 3 pc goal that nexon originated today you see the results ...

    .. one enters and looks WOW ... OMG ... the servers are full all the world is playing are 30 channels !!! ... those 30 shamans if they are full is because botters and hackers of different have already invaded everything and the channels are crashed as always if it is not 1 it is to another and the dc and lag and bugs continue ..

    So many and many servers checks and maintenance will come, but the memo where anna "we are going to be more these changes for greater stability of the game" nerf kanna furys, intradeables etc etc etc etc "did not help at all in the end, the game is the same , but worse things will come, here it cannot be shown ... but from the crown and the people return to the game it was the best. The disastrous changes made people leave the game again Kishin nodeskill should have been the solution to these problems a long time ago, but it is a 2d game and many people came to the head that kishin was the problem, when the game had years and years of their own problems, ok no nodeskill kishin, increase the respwan in the channels ok ... neither ... well when anna goes home and among others that if she thinks about the progress of all the players and company

    Masteria, from its inception years and years ago, was an absolute trainwreck from the very beginning. Even from the start, besides having a few good low level alternative maps to train at, the best thing it really introduced to the game was Ginger Ales. At the very least, the blockbuster gives a good medal and Gollux was great because of how it helped bridge the gap between mid and late game with the accessory sets, but the changes are a completely different can of worms that is completely off topic for this specific thread. Actually, most of your post is.

    Frenzy Totem was, absolutely, a mistake and it's clear Nexon has been trying to limit that mistake by removing it from Philosopher's Books and Marvel Machine to avoid bringing more of them into the market and hopefully squeeze them out naturally. However, it's just another part of the current problem and outcry - it's not fair that people have such insane items that can fundamentally change the way the game is played while SIMULTANEOUSLY punishing everyone else who doesn't have it. If anything, the most community-friendly solution would be to recognize that the damage is done and make spawn rate increasing abilities incredibly accessible. There will always be a gap between Frenzy and Kishin, but people wouldn't mind as much if they weren't constantly being kicked in the throat for trying to make things even slightly easier on themselves. It doesn't reduce player retention by 'speeding up progression' - if that was the case, the majority of players with Frenzy Totems would've quit ages ago. Instead, they tend to be the most active players in the community BECAUSE they have something that makes the game more fun, makes ease of character leveling faster, makes getting through the tedium faster so that they can get to the parts of the game that really shine - big numbers, flashy skills, cool maps, boss fights and daily/weekly progression, all of which are already locked behind a FULL YEAR OF DAILIES. Progression is going to naturally happen because players still need to get Arcane Force. Slowing everything down otherwise makes no sense because people are going to be playing anyways.

    Kishin was never directly the problem - it's the fact that it's a unique skill that only one class can get or a singular subtype of item has that is far too inaccessible to outweigh the raw necessity that the only class that provides it brings. Frenzy was a mistake, but its raw power comes from the fact that the only other options have been steadily and systematically destroyed over the years in a lopsided attempt to reduce muling and stall progression for higher player retention rates, therefore more potential spending power. I don't believe Anna should be the scapegoat for all of this, either - Nexon, as a whole, needs to learn how to be much more willing and open to open dialogues and discussions with its playerbase in order to properly understand the nuances and (realistic) desires of the fans of their game in order to provide a service that keeps people wanting to come back day after day. They need to take a page out of Cygames' or Jagex's books in how they interact with their consumer base, especially with such a small, passionate community around this game. This isn't all on Anna - it's on the Korean developers, it's on Nexon upper management, and it's on years of bad decisions that have plagued them with complications since the start: the constant addition of more and more servers in some kind of inflated belief that the game would endlessly grow (aka the capitalist wet dream), the wild and reckless implementation and creation of so much region-exclusive content that balancing everything is virtually impossible at this point, the lack of transparency that is excessively common in major Korean corporations (including Nexon)...

    This might all seem off topic, but it all comes right back to the decision to nerf Kishin and punish players instead of elevating them and changing the game to match the current era. It's such a complex problem that has years upon years of history, and the move to nerf it was the absolute wrong choice because it simply doubles down on the fact that Nexon appears to not want to listen to the playerbase, refuses to be transparent with their motives while insulting the intelligence of their customers who can see exactly what they're doing, being unable to admit any faults of the past and setting things right. There are so many other options than this. All we're asking for, as a community, is that an alternative option is taken and that it's implemented rather than this backwards attempt at a 'balance'. Bandaid fixes won't cut it anymore.
    darikTamirelia
  • darikdarik
    Reactions: 3,030
    Posts: 600
    Member
    edited June 2020
    BoredErica wrote: »
    I think they should make Kish a node skill so people are less pressured to have a Kanna. The current nerfs seem to hurt non-Kannas than Kannas, which just makes Kanna more essential. At this point I'd rather Kish be removed entirely than have to deal with any more weird changes. I'd rather not have to deal with any of this than to have to work with a jank Kish, where I suffer using but still feel obligated to use it to get the best rates. I'm personally okay with a slower game, even if it screws over so many people who haven't farmed much yet.

    This honestly feels like the worst possible timeline for me.

    Also, just stop making new classes and rebalance the old classes satisfactorily. If a class is to be OP, make it OP. Don't nerf it after people have sunk time into the characters. Of course they'd be upset.

    100 Agree with you , but Nexon and producers literally annihilated the game with these latest changes. from add masteria .. (wow hi anyone training here? oh yes server reboot to today booters blasters and kanna) .. gollux ... the worst .. basic ideas ..pressure people want a rewamp, if it was their right ..but nexon ruined something simple and remove the progress of medium and low progress players .. removing the old gollux coins and replacing them with new ones ... the entry in lvl 170 was an optical illusion xd ...., medium, intermediate and well ... with that increased hp, attack, def, 1 entry a day and the drop .. ... for the hell I'm going to go to gollux better I go to the AH or together my mesos is a farm less .. .maple tour ... ursus ... forgotten ... seriousness ok ... with maple and its bosses and changes ...

    and because these failures are mentioned, which are only miserable and some ... since if we count all of them up to ADELE's patch today ... it would be long .... as well as in reedit ... the good and the against and that can not be reversed because nexon did it

    if nexon hadn't released the ADELE patch and only had the patch and MEMO of nerf kanna-bt- untradeables cubes- furytotems but no changes to frenzy totem, zaz .. people were leaving the game, simple because you are annihilating reboot us eu ( eu worse ..) and also the other servers, but ANNA thought about it .. we give ADELE AND THE NERF AND KANNA AND ETC .... it is very easy to trick people to keep it in the game to get $$ of these and of course with this new Patch THE WINNERS ARE THE? WHALES .... IF THE WHALES .... people who have everything lvl, mesos, teams, have no life ... they are going to run bosses. streamers .. obviously also hacker people, people less mesos, buy .. with .. money, the 3 pc goal that nexon originated today you see the results ...

    .. one enters and looks WOW ... OMG ... the servers are full all the world is playing are 30 channels !!! ... those 30 shamans if they are full is because botters and hackers of different have already invaded everything and the channels are crashed as always if it is not 1 it is to another and the dc and lag and bugs continue ..

    So many and many servers checks and maintenance will come, but the memo where anna "we are going to be more these changes for greater stability of the game" nerf kanna furys, intradeables etc etc etc etc "did not help at all in the end, the game is the same , but worse things will come, here it cannot be shown ... but from the crown and the people return to the game it was the best. The disastrous changes made people leave the game again Kishin nodeskill should have been the solution to these problems a long time ago, but it is a 2d game and many people came to the head that kishin was the problem, when the game had years and years of their own problems, ok no nodeskill kishin, increase the respwan in the channels ok ... neither ... well when anna goes home and among others that if she thinks about the progress of all the players and company

    i agree, im already at eng game level and my only motivation was making second mains and funnding them for fun, but after the gollux insane hp buff, i dont feel motivated anymore to keep doing this.
    Also i was looking forward to the masteria revamp, but when it gopt released, the items are time gated to stupid amount of times, maps dont seem to be good for training, at least the monsters look cool, but playwise, it sucks.
    Also i was happy that they gave some box to compensate for familiars, but why make it RNG? a compensation but its RNG? its so freakinng weird and ilogical, make it so that we can choose what to get , so we decide if its on a farmer, a mule, or a main, which buff suits better. TThis just means that they dont understand playstyle or idk, we dont like to gamble nexon, game is way too RG already, why make compensations RNG? Makes literally no sense at all.
    Then the rise patch arrived, yeh , sounds cool, but kish nerf, why, just why, if youre going to nerf such thing that is of SUCH importance to the community, give something in replacemet, give a linnk skill, give a node, increase base spawn rate of all maps, idk , something, you cant just nerf to the ground something that is of such importance and not give anything in exchange, it will make people mad, demotivated, and some ppl will eve quit. In the server i play, end game people are slowly playing less and less, because theres isnt much motivation to keep playing since nerfs come every sigle time, sf costs are insaely higu if you want to 20-22* star an item and you, nexon, punish the players for maining different characters with all the time gated stuff, yet force us to play multiple mules so that we have legion benefits, link skills, etc. IT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.
    Ill give credit where credit is due, the decrease in exp needed from 170-200 is very nice and appreciated, But sadly the nerfs , and negative mechanics implemented recently vastly outweights the good things.
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 3,070
    Posts: 498
    Member
    edited June 2020
    rare moments when we appreciate GMS bad codeing
    if only dev team for GMS had idea what they do and test...





  • microwavemicrowave
    Reactions: 425
    Posts: 22
    Member
    edited June 2020
    BoredErica wrote: »
    I think they should make Kish a node skill so people are less pressured to have a Kanna. The current nerfs seem to hurt non-Kannas than Kannas, which just makes Kanna more essential. At this point I'd rather Kish be removed entirely than have to deal with any more weird changes. I'd rather not have to deal with any of this than to have to work with a jank Kish, where I suffer using but still feel obligated to use it to get the best rates. I'm personally okay with a slower game, even if it screws over so many people who haven't farmed much yet.

    This honestly feels like the worst possible timeline for me.

    Also, just stop making new classes and rebalance the old classes satisfactorily. If a class is to be OP, make it OP. Don't nerf it after people have sunk time into the characters. Of course they'd be upset.

    100 Agree with you , but Nexon and producers literally annihilated the game with these latest changes. from add masteria .. (wow hi anyone training here? oh yes server reboot to today booters blasters and kanna) .. gollux ... the worst .. basic ideas ..pressure people want a rewamp, if it was their right ..but nexon ruined something simple and remove the progress of medium and low progress players .. removing the old gollux coins and replacing them with new ones ... the entry in lvl 170 was an optical illusion xd ...., medium, intermediate and well ... with that increased hp, attack, def, 1 entry a day and the drop .. ... for the hell I'm going to go to gollux better I go to the AH or together my mesos is a farm less .. .maple tour ... ursus ... forgotten ... seriousness ok ... with maple and its bosses and changes ...

    and because these failures are mentioned, which are only miserable and some ... since if we count all of them up to ADELE's patch today ... it would be long .... as well as in reedit ... the good and the against and that can not be reversed because nexon did it

    if nexon hadn't released the ADELE patch and only had the patch and MEMO of nerf kanna-bt- untradeables cubes- furytotems but no changes to frenzy totem, zaz .. people were leaving the game, simple because you are annihilating reboot us eu ( eu worse ..) and also the other servers, but ANNA thought about it .. we give ADELE AND THE NERF AND KANNA AND ETC .... it is very easy to trick people to keep it in the game to get $$ of these and of course with this new Patch THE WINNERS ARE THE? WHALES .... IF THE WHALES .... people who have everything lvl, mesos, teams, have no life ... they are going to run bosses. streamers .. obviously also hacker people, people less mesos, buy .. with .. money, the 3 pc goal that nexon originated today you see the results ...

    .. one enters and looks WOW ... OMG ... the servers are full all the world is playing are 30 channels !!! ... those 30 shamans if they are full is because botters and hackers of different have already invaded everything and the channels are crashed as always if it is not 1 it is to another and the dc and lag and bugs continue ..

    So many and many servers checks and maintenance will come, but the memo where anna "we are going to be more these changes for greater stability of the game" nerf kanna furys, intradeables etc etc etc etc "did not help at all in the end, the game is the same , but worse things will come, here it cannot be shown ... but from the crown and the people return to the game it was the best. The disastrous changes made people leave the game again Kishin nodeskill should have been the solution to these problems a long time ago, but it is a 2d game and many people came to the head that kishin was the problem, when the game had years and years of their own problems, ok no nodeskill kishin, increase the respwan in the channels ok ... neither ... well when anna goes home and among others that if she thinks about the progress of all the players and company

    100% whit u .. day of today kishin was the true problem ? no ... the state of the game is pauperrim ... a list complet of bugs fixed .. a lie ! .. 30 channels even the cheese .. login problems , dcs .. lag ... but for ANNA or other dumb in nexon all the fault and instability is kanna, but what a poor mentality to handle and fix things and see that the real problems are others, but they have annihilated many decent players, new in progress, I am not new .. but it is a It hurts to see many leave disappointed and leave characters or the game, you are right, they added ADELE simply to continue brainwashing many who spend money at the moment but later bite the teeth of regret and with worse things that will come later for decisions like these, spend nx why? So come philosop books, miracles, etc etc, this company with ridicules to the player does not deserve a penny
  • NyongNyong
    Reactions: 360
    Posts: 8
    Member
    edited June 2020
    the nerf to kanna was not necessary .. it was simply to disable it for times like zero and bt in creation, 2nd to increase the respawn of mobs, simple ... 3rd a good technical maintenance of the game .. minimum 3 days to 5 days ... (remember this happened 2 times many years uff), enable at once 30 channels bera and reboot, but not this kind of copying empty channels from aurora or elysium and adding them to bera and reboot that's ridiculous ... but in mind from anna the problem was kanna nerf kishin, nerf fury but not frenzy totems ... and already known other ridiculous changes

    the problem is not only in this forum, in other forums, nexon ignores its community and these producers that instead of benefiting the game and the company believe that one is rich in money and has all the time in the world for their events of slaves or we are robots for them, our game today is the same ... nothing has changed in the same, so the question

    was the nerf to kanna necessary and the nefarious changes in furys, intradesible cubes, possible fixes ??? ... man .. do you see anything beneficial apart from adele? Adele happens and then what? less progress and more technical problems and more nerfs and all for the holy name of game stability ... game stability .....