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Thoughts on Kanna and Fury Totem Changes

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  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited May 2020
    Flylow wrote: »
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    xDarkrai wrote: »
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    I think I speak for all of reboot when I say that GMS does not want to be like KMS. KMS reboot is a farming prison where players have to work a lot harder to reach their goals.

    I believe I have been summoned to speak against that. I won't pretend that lying to consumers and what Nexon is doing is okay.
    But I will repeat for the millionth time that I do want a 1:1 GMS:KMS service.

    why the heck would you like to be exactly like KMS?

    Different tastes for different people.
    I like the KMS setup. Let's leave it at that so as not to derail the thread.
    I'll just say that even though I want a KMS clone, I still don't think that Nexon needs to do this anytime soon.
    Nexon is taking some risks, if those risks are viable or not is left to be shown.

    I would rather Nexon port the non-KMS classes and content over to KMS with balance applied so that it doesn't break their progression.
    Just because I want a 1:1 KMS clone doesn't mean I want all of the take to be on the GMS side, KMS has to give a little too for that to work.
    Once again, I'm only here to show support for an eventual move to being closer to KMS.

    Just curious, do you play reboot or nonreboot? Because if it is reboot you know it's dead in KMS right? and if reboot dies here, then they will most likely shut down GMS just like they did with MS2 since we hardly make them any money and reboot is the most populated server.

    KMS reboot being active or dead has nothing to do with GMS reboot
    and you know KMS reboot still do blackmage without familiars/kanna/badge/golux....? where is GMS reboot at ?
    KMS reboot being less populated then KMS non-reboot dosnt mean its dead ( KMS reboot players number wise probably still higher then GMS total lol )
    i dont understand why GMS incompetence its thrown at other worlds/servers
    reboot its more popular then non-reboot in GMS because of hackers,p2w non-reboot its full of ( all wants to play with meso instead of creditcards includeing the few on non-reboot in GMS who still fight and try to keep f2p )

    MSEA has DMT that works with crafted cubes not just nx GMS still sleep and ignore on that
    KMS has cube sell in AH
    GMS lead with amount of hackers
    and so much more things other servers do better and for a reason their numbers are good

    what GMS has? broken things from TMS? maintenance that often just corrects text issue ?
    if GMS actually did care for balance and health and wanted to show us they would have removed frenzy,kish, furywild totem allready.
    increasing the gap between p2w and f2p its not good idea
  • NyongNyong
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    edited May 2020
    not only am I disgusted by these memos ... a lot of people alike ... if ubisoft has the worst game producers and technical service .... maplestory is another ...... anna, you want to improvise your game better? ok ... delete Kanna, Fury totems and furys?! ..., and Frenzy Totem and just improve spawn rates overall ok and ready ..but this will never suit the company. that if a revamps to the kanna without kishin and other classes, for the non-progress of the players. The lvl cap is I think 360lvl. god I don't want that to think about all the changes and ridicules on the way after

    when a character leaves the area where he is training, it will be reset until a next player enters .. very simple . oh very lazy for great staff to perform these simple steps.. and other ideas for a game and solve all the problems that maplestory has today ... each maintenance is a disaster today and many players maintain that hope that every problem in the forum, in reedit, or on another platform, the technical service, producer or staff member will help the game in general, but no ... I am not kanna main but when I read these memos and the damage without anything new .. they are not sincere, this last memo caused many kanna players and other players to leave the game for this type of news that in the end we will see more and more nerfs with no solution to their community

    are these changes good today? not really, because there are worse problems than writing a memo and mentioning that a skil or job is the cause of the instability of the game ... is a job a skill really that? or everything in general in technical problems


    WONDERGUYSteveHyuga
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited May 2020
    Flylow wrote: »

    Just curious, do you play reboot or nonreboot? Because if it is reboot you know it's dead in KMS right? and if reboot dies here, then they will most likely shut down GMS just like they did with MS2 since we hardly make them any money and reboot is the most populated server.

    Reboot but that doesn't matter. As Wonderguy pointed out, KMS Reboot is still healthy enough for bosses like black mage to get cleared.
    It's not popular in Korea because it's actually hard. I like that. I want that.
    No, I don't want GMS to die, which is exactly why even though I want the KMS experience I don't agree with Nexon's methods.
    Slow changes need to be made over time, which is exactly what Nexon is doing. What Nexon is also doing however, is lying to players among other things that gives them a really bad community face. If Nexon had better relations with their community, less people would be so upset with them and an eventual move to KMS content.
    Though I still can't say if they would be handling it correctly.

    I'm sure there are players in Korea who would like to play Beast Tamer, Jett, Hayato, even Kanna.
    I don't think things that break balanced like Gollux or Kanna (kishin) should be given to KMS as a 1:1 copy, but we can tweak them to get them added to the base game.
    Right now however, it's only GMS that is actually contributing anything to make the KMS:GMS gap close.
    I think Korea needs to start working towards our version as well.
    And before any mention of "Just go play KMS then" pops up, I'm not about to break international law to get a KSSN or account in Korea, or jump through hoops just to foreign account so that I can invade their service.
    I want GMS to be like KMS. Plain and simple.
  • HishotodoHishotodo
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    edited May 2020
    This seemingly endless back and forth between one outlier who wants to be like KMS vs the obvious majority of the server is useless and honestly detracting from the real topic at hand. Especially since no real points have been made about the balance/state of Kishin in GMS other than "I like/want this" and "I don't like/want this". For instance;

    Kishin does:
    +Increase spawn rate of monsters, leading to increased exp, items, mesos,
    +'Subjectively' increase enjoyment of hunting monsters due to the larger count and frequency,
    +Shorten the amount of time it takes to progress in the game (Without making it trivial?),
    +Have to seem a large majority of support from the community as a mechanic,
    -Feel bad when you don't have it,
    -'Force' players to create alternate accounts to use Kishin on their maps for their mains, leading to
    -Increase server strain through an increased number of characters online, without increasing actual player population
    -Create an imbalance between servers where GMS has an advantage in leveling, items, and mesos compared to other non-kishin servers

    Personally, I feel that the Kishin spawn increasing mechanic is a net benefit for the game and considering it has existed for nearly the majority of the game's lifespan, probably shouldn't go away. All of the negative aspects are either superficial (In terms of balance between servers, which honestly doesn't matter.) or easily solvable on Nexon's side. Whether it be a link skill, a V skill, an accessible totem, or a base spawn rate increase through all maps (The best choice imo...).

    The argument on how healthy or fine KMS players are, Reboot or not, doesn't matter. KMS is not connected to GMS, our players barely if ever communicate, nor do we have any cross-server mechanics. We could be playing an entirely different game tomorrow and it wouldn't mean anything to KMS.

    If you like KMS better than GMS, fine. But, I think we can see through the history of discussion about GMS vs KMS is that a larger portion of GMS players prefer our version over Korea's. You may exist as an outlier, but must respect the idea that you are one and act accordingly, should you look greedy if you don't. Advocating for large changes that generally go against the wills of the majority because you "like it" without even stating reasons why it would make the game healthier or more fun just makes you look bad... And honestly, if we're going to be KMS? Give us the channels, server stability, support, and client stability they have.

    If you honestly want Kishin gone, then I think it would be more beneficial as a topic to discuss why you think it should be removed and what the benefits are. If you can't find anything solid enough, then maybe it's time to look at your idea more.


    Fuhreakdarik
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited May 2020
    Hishotodo wrote: »
    [...]respect the idea that you are one and act accordingly, should you look greedy if you don't. Advocating for large changes[...]

    Good post but let's get one thing clear, I do not advocate for large changes to be made and I have always stated that I know that I'm an outlier.
    Don't twist me into something I'm not. I've merely said that I personally think it's best and support some of Nexon's less popular changes.
    I'm not pushing for anything, I am merely expressing that there are a few, small handfull of players that actually don't care and even want these changes.
    If Nexon wants to go forward with a more KMS based GMS, I personally support that idea, but not the current execution.
    I want the majority of players to be able to enjoy that kind of transition, not oppose it.
    The majority should never bend knee for a minority of players.
  • HishotodoHishotodo
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    edited May 2020
    Fair. I should not have implied bad traits, apologies. However, I'd prefer if the topic on Kishin(in regards to the memo) would be more substantial rather than pure opinion so there was something to actually discuss. For instance, why do you like the idea of Kishin slowly getting removed and becoming more like KMS? Benefits?
    Fuhreak
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited June 2020
    Hishotodo wrote: »
    Fair. I should not have implied bad traits, apologies. However, I'd prefer if the topic on Kishin(in regards to the memo) would be more substantial rather than pure opinion so there was something to actually discuss. For instance, why do you like the idea of Kishin slowly getting removed and becoming more like KMS? Benefits?

    Kishin creates a "toxic" meta where players don't want to grind without it.
    This places Kanna up on a holy pedestal that Nexon isn't allowed to touch.
    No one class should ever be that important in a game with 40+ characters.
    Without Kishin the meta gets shifted towards what characters work on what maps and how you can maximize your class.
    So long as Kishin exists the entire meta will always revolve around having that ONE CHARACTER in your back pocket.
    Remove Kishin and Kanna becomes just like any other character. Allowing Nexon to actually close gaps between classes.
    Nexon is free to do with Kanna as they want without having to worry about pissing off 99% of the playerbase.

    I actually think an increase of the base spawn rate of mobs, while removing all other forms of spawn increase is the right thing to do.
    Even if I personally have no problems with the spawn rate, it's what people want and what they need honestly.
    This would keep players happy, KMS can balance individual maps where need be (They're already doing this.)
    Increasing the spawn rate is something that I'm sure a lot of Korean players can get behind too.
    Nexon can easily control how fast players progress by just changing individual map chains instead of having to nerf the entire progression in the way of Kishin nerfs.

    Even if Nexon does nothing except remove Kishin, assuming they survive the fallout, they still get the end result of the game not revolving around one character.
    This is why I think if they're going to slowly remove the dependence on Kishin (or replace), it's ultimately a good idea.
    So long as GMS isn't killed in the process, we'll have a better game in the end.

    Just please Nexon, stop ruining your relationship with your playerbase. We can handle the truth, stop lying and keeping secrets.
    KanukovSlicedTimeAggraphineNebul
  • LaxrsiLaxrsi
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    edited June 2020
    Wouldn't put it past them to make reboot harder so people switch to non-reboot then release frenzy totems back on Marvel and Philo books.
    WONDERGUY
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited June 2020
    Laxrsi wrote: »
    Wouldn't put it past them to make reboot harder so people switch to non-reboot then release frenzy totems back on Marvel and Philo books.

    Kanna and Fury changes don't only affect Reboot, and Reboot already has higher meso and exp rates compared to regular servers so they're still in a better position to handle the nerf than regular servers.
    I also highly doubt that they'll re-introduce Frenzy Totem. Everything points towards them wanting to make it a legacy item and focus on slowing down overall progress.
    My bet has been that they'll make a permanent version of Fury (soon-to-be Wild) Totem and put that in Marvel/Philo instead of Frenzy and still make money for the convenience of the item being permanent, while not providing higher spawn rates than Nexon is "comfortable" with.

    I'm just tired of this constant uncertainty around every update we get and the unsatisfactory reasoning from Nexon's end.
    I could understand nerfing kishin, but to also nerf the Fury Totem alongside it doesn't make sense for closing any type of gap. It just makes it worse for everybody, except the people who have Frenzy already. It's widening the gap, while kanna and 2PC meta will still be the better option over the very limited Fury(Wild) Totem. And Fury Totem is very new still, can't they just change how the item's skill works to align with new kishin, instead of making a whole new item. None of this is making sense to me.
    darik
  • ResetReset
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    edited June 2020
    Personally I think Kanna's kishin should be weaker than the fury totem (Example, kishin should be 30% respawn/mob boost and fury totem should be 60%). And Fury totem should be made to be way more accessible than it currently is. I don't think Kanna deserves a free permanent fury totem at their disposal while also having the best mobbing, and the best support while having really good bossing to boot. The problem with kanna is that it's the only class that has the best of every world. There is no cons to being a kanna whatsoever.

    And yes this is coming from a kanna main. I also think they should seriously nerf our bossing and balance our mobbing more too because it's OP. Kanna doesn't deserve to be broken in all possible directions. Kanna is supposed to be a support like Bishop. Not a full out DPS class, full on support class "and" full on mobbing class with a permanent fury totem built in.
    WONDERGUYHowDidIKnowAaronHuskyShadEightSlicedTimeVyrtae
  • HowDidIKnowHowDidIKnow
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    edited June 2020
    If the cooldown is longer than the uptime, then nexon just introduced the three PC meta with two kanna mules to have kishin at all times.
    WONDERGUYKrownop
  • ThumperOne1ThumperOne1
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    edited June 2020
    anna kil kishin at once .. too furys totems and frenzy totems, firestar ring. divinity ring and increase the spawn of monster in all the maps oh true cant this eliminate this by the gains and other items $$$ , thx anna
    WONDERGUY
  • SteveHyugaSteveHyuga
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    edited June 2020
    I would have been fine with a kanna nerf, so long as there was some kind of compensation on spawn rate overall in some way. no .. instead what we get is a nerf to kishin and fury totem, a rename of fury totem to wild totem, and a whopping 10% decrease in the price. .. fantastic memo ... another all around nerf to everyone and everything except frenzy disguised as a rework. Disgusting? yes .. nexon is time for the company to sell the game to one that really cares about the players and the perfect state of the game GMS ISNT KMS ...

    bazzyWONDERGUY
  • TurtlesRockTurtlesRock
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    edited June 2020
    darik wrote: »
    Obviously the meso rate reduction is the most important issue in Reboot. Nexon is constantly nerfing our rates, and for what? Why should I farm 500m/hour for hours on end just to spend 30b with little to show from all the wasted hours.

    The rate in arcana with the old kish used to be 800m to even 1b meso per hour, which is completely fair given the extreme prices for 22 starring and 3 lining. Then the kish nerf brought reboot down to 600m to 700m per hour with maximum effort, but the average player will make 400m to 500m per hour. And now our meso rate will be reduced again by about 15%.

    Keep in mind that to even get these rates you have to level and fund a kanna to arcana, which is no easy task. For the majority of people, this kanna will not even be their main. For the kanna mains, this kanna will either have to stay at 247 or be punished with a meso reduction at 250. For kannas who want to advance beyond 250, they too have to make another kanna for arcana.

    Something has to be done to actually balance the game according to the new meso rate. Starforcing and cubing must be cheaper.

    Also, don't forget that with this kish update, the rate of nodes/droplets will also be reduced by 15%. The drop rate of these items should be increased.

    dropletts drop rate are getting increased in rise patch. And droplets required for arcane weapons will be less

    I know, but the droplet drop rate still won't be as good as when kish was good + when drop gear was good. And node drop rate as been dropping ever since.
  • pepepepe
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    edited June 2020
    Spawn rate itself should be universally boosted to current kishin levels, remove fury totem and make kishin give a SELF buff.
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited June 2020
    AaronHusky wrote: »
    It's actually better if we don't become a 1:1 copy of KMS. If that were to happen, we'd lose out on Gollux and Sweetwater equips, items that make it much easier to get stronger in our server vs Korea. We'd also lose out on tier 4 potentials (13% and 10% stat rolls), which have their stat boosts add up fast. Our attack speed cap would also be changed to 2, which is a huge loss in DPS.

    We'd also lose out on our higher tier rates than KMS too. Progressing would become much more difficult unless you whale or grind your brains out.

    We'd also have to lose the four classes that KMS doesn't have. They don't have Hayato, Kanna, Jett, or Beast Tamer. And removing them from the game would be a sure fire way to make players quit.

    KMS is popular, and well run, but the MMO culture over there is different from the West. Western players aren't as willing to spend copious amounts of time or money on an online game.

    If we want the benefits of KMS, especially in a 1:1 server, we'd also have to inherit the downsides of playing KMS too. And I think at this point, the cons of being 1:1 with KMS far outweigh the pros.
    I'd actually take all those downsides than be stuck with a half-asd middle approach to our region.
    WONDERGUY
  • RavoyoungRavoyoung
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    Great other F you to the players who spent so much time making an Arcana farming Kanna after we were told byebye was bannable offense.

    The bannable offense is killing your character on purpose, with the intent of keeping it at a certain level. Arcana farming is JUST AS illegal as byebye is/was, but their automated ban detection system doesn't flag arcana farmers because between 240-250 you have to kill yourself like once every 3 hours, the only way to get a ban is manually by being monitored by a GM, which they simply do not have the resources for.
    WONDERGUY
  • RavoyoungRavoyoung
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    Iite wrote: »
    For the love of all that is holy, stop nerfing my main, let us have the class remain unchanged for at least a year, or better yet, buff us so our damage output and lines are close to other classes, there were benefits to being a kanna, you could help other players level, make money selling kinsh service, bind for a whole minute, and this made them a great support class, but now our support ability is halved at best and our damage output is awful. If you plan on nerfing kanna offer us a job change to a different mage class and change our weps/ potentials to match that class.

    I really hope this is a bad troll, it probably is since nobody can be this clueless.

    Kanna is one of the, if not the, strongest overal character in the game.

    Best support
    Best farmer
    Most important character to core gameplay
    Extremely good bosser (kit and dmg wise)
    WONDERGUY
  • AaronHuskyAaronHusky
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    edited June 2020
    ShadEight wrote: »
    I'd actually take all those downsides than be stuck with a half-asd middle approach to our region.

    You're kidding, right? Having progression be as difficult as KMS?
  • KevinZamoraKevinZamora
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    edited June 2020
    they really hate to have happy players, this is all KMS micromanaging GMS with their schemes to make more money out of us, they’re nerfing the free options for a reason... soon we will have Frenzy back or something else in the CS. Beware y’all! Don’t fall for it when it comes, it’s the only way we can send them a message.. since they only listen to our wallets