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GMS-Raising Star Cap, Rebirth Flames & Neb Revamp?

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  • ZephyrusSpringZephyrusSpring
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    edited October 2017
    You know I was thinking about this last night. What makes flames and AO more accessible than cubes and potential? I don't want to hear about f2p here, that's not a valid reason and if anything it makes flames less accessible because you can't get them with money even if you wanted to. I want to see some critical thinking about why increasing the cube drop rate or ways to get cubes is not sufficient but adding AO is.

    Let me break down my thoughts. AO has 5 ranks, the highest only being accessible with rainbow flames. There is absolutely no kind of progression when using flames, you may roll four rank 2 lines with one and then four rank 5s with the next, and then go back down again with a 3rd. Imagine falling from legendary to rare with one cube. Ridiculous right? Well that's how flames work. Rainbow flames can only be obtained from events and crafting. A GMS version may see them in the rewards shop though so that's not something to base an opinion off of. Equipment with the white dot can only be rerolled with crimson and rainbow flames, however even crimson flames have a better chance for better stats than any of the boss flames so in order to power up you'll be using them anyway. Boss flames will only be useful for the first couple of weeks and only for those with years old equipment.

    We all know how potential works. There are 4 ranks, you cannot rank down, and different cubes allow you to go up to different ranks with different rates. The cubes we have reasonably good access to are the craftsman cubes, which can only go to unique and have the lowest chance of ranking up. I would argue we currently have better access to red cubes through the rewards shop than meister cubes. In fact meister cubes rarely show up in events either. Suffice to say, breaking through to the legendary tier is slow going, especially if you don't know how to get lots of free epic potentials.

    The way to get free crimson flames is through various shops, and in most cases you could also use that currency to buy craftsman cubes instead. So I ask again, how could adding AO help where more cubes couldn't?
  • darikdarik
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    edited October 2017
    The things that gms actually needs to copy paste from KMS (FLAMES) arent copy pasted BUT the things that no one wants to be copy pasted from KMS(Drop gear nerf) ARE actually copy pasted.
    I can only say one thing, WTF?!
  • darikdarik
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    edited October 2017
    Kek. This guy just won't give up forcing his terrible ideas. Same with the other guy who was spamming GIVE LEGACY SERVER NAO! I DID THE MATH AND 5 WHOLE PEOPLE VOTED YES ON THE POLLS!

    but I hope you do realize that I put a lot of decision into whether it will benefit the community and if it would promote activities Nexon would like to see between players. I hope I provided a good analogy and theory on how Additionals Options might affect the Maple community. Sorry I sound like I am nagging, but I am confident I may have the solution to bring the community together, provide ways of helping players gain range and rack up daily income, and making use of underused items and professions in the game.

    >i put a lot of decision and effort
    >here is my theory
    >provides a 3 page document of what Flames of Rebith, as if GMS staff doesn't already know what Flames is

    Flames: gives stats twice more than Neb(9% all stats, 45% damage boss....), easy to obtain - no NX required.
    Neb: spend thousand of money for a stone which only gives you 4% all stats...
    You guys be the judge

    This game doesn't need more power creep, also it's much easier to reach 2mil-2mil clean in GMS than KMS. KMS doesn't have DMT, Gollux, link skills like Kanna, Hayato, Beast Tamer. A Nebs are fine, it's just there is not enough in the market or an easy way to get it, that makes the prices skyrocket. 4-5bil for a single AS 4% A neb is ridiculous. When you can equip like 21-22 nebullites.

    Look the polls, when i votes 283 other people agreed that flames should be implemented (88%) while only 8% said they shouldnt, this says it all, its not just a few poepl who want them but a vast mayority
    Nyara
  • MageOfBattlesMageOfBattles
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    edited October 2017
    You know I was thinking about this last night. What makes flames and AO more accessible than cubes and potential? I don't want to hear about f2p here, that's not a valid reason and if anything it makes flames less accessible because you can't get them with money even if you wanted to. I want to see some critical thinking about why increasing the cube drop rate or ways to get cubes is not sufficient but adding AO is.

    Let me break down my thoughts. AO has 5 ranks, the highest only being accessible with rainbow flames. There is absolutely no kind of progression when using flames, you may roll four rank 2 lines with one and then four rank 5s with the next, and then go back down again with a 3rd. Imagine falling from legendary to rare with one cube. Ridiculous right? Well that's how flames work. Rainbow flames can only be obtained from events and crafting. A GMS version may see them in the rewards shop though so that's not something to base an opinion off of. Equipment with the white dot can only be rerolled with crimson and rainbow flames, however even crimson flames have a better chance for better stats than any of the boss flames so in order to power up you'll be using them anyway. Boss flames will only be useful for the first couple of weeks and only for those with years old equipment.

    We all know how potential works. There are 4 ranks, you cannot rank down, and different cubes allow you to go up to different ranks with different rates. The cubes we have reasonably good access to are the craftsman cubes, which can only go to unique and have the lowest chance of ranking up. I would argue we currently have better access to red cubes through the rewards shop than meister cubes. In fact meister cubes rarely show up in events either. Suffice to say, breaking through to the legendary tier is slow going, especially if you don't know how to get lots of free epic potentials.

    The way to get free crimson flames is through various shops, and in most cases you could also use that currency to buy craftsman cubes instead. So I ask again, how could adding AO help where more cubes couldn't?

    Critical thinking here we go. Increasing the cube rates doesn't help with the situation at hand. Cubes are already an established source of damage. Whereas Flames are a new source of damage. Increasing the availability of one doesn't necessarily make up for not having the other. If you're playing from that angle, making bonus potential cubes more available would make more sense, and it honestly might work.

    The thing is, yeah flames are fickle with their stats, but it's still new stats that we don't have right now. I like to think of it like a more dynamic and substantial inner abillity. Your case with the crimson and boss flames isn't new. What do you think occult cubes are? The first step is getting the flames, the next is improving on them and customizing it to GMS's needs.

    Having more cubes will only do so much. There's only two types of potential. AO introduces new stats. All in all, I really don't see why your argument is viable for not having flames. You argue for how cubes can be improved in place of AO, but that doesn't give us anything that we don't already have. We'll still be at the same place, we'll just be getting there faster.

    Before the issue with AO was that we had a far lower damage cap, and the gap between funded and unfunded was still cross able. But we have the new damage cap that blows that argument out of the water. The damage gap isn't being closed at this point. Continuing to try to do so gets us where we are now, unable to kill the new bosses that are only going to get tougher. I'm not saying that AO is going to magically make everyone stronger, but it's a direction that this game is heading in, whether you like it or not.
  • ZephyrusSpringZephyrusSpring
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    edited October 2017
    Critical thinking here we go. Increasing the cube rates doesn't help with the situation at hand. Cubes are already an established source of damage. Whereas Flames are a new source of damage. Increasing the availability of one doesn't necessarily make up for not having the other. If you're playing from that angle, making bonus potential cubes more available would make more sense, and it honestly might work.

    The thing is, yeah flames are fickle with their stats, but it's still new stats that we don't have right now. I like to think of it like a more dynamic and substantial inner abillity. Your case with the crimson and boss flames isn't new. What do you think occult cubes are? The first step is getting the flames, the next is improving on them and customizing it to GMS's needs.

    Having more cubes will only do so much. There's only two types of potential. AO introduces new stats. All in all, I really don't see why your argument is viable for not having flames. You argue for how cubes can be improved in place of AO, but that doesn't give us anything that we don't already have. We'll still be at the same place, we'll just be getting there faster.

    Before the issue with AO was that we had a far lower damage cap, and the gap between funded and unfunded was still cross able. But we have the new damage cap that blows that argument out of the water. The damage gap isn't being closed at this point. Continuing to try to do so gets us where we are now, unable to kill the new bosses that are only going to get tougher. I'm not saying that AO is going to magically make everyone stronger, but it's a direction that this game is heading in, whether you like it or not.

    I assume the situation you're referring to is the top end players? My information from earlier was already out of date. Players had already defeated hard Lucid in Scania without a Kanna. In fact as I recall they had an Angelic Buster of all things. Just recently players in Reboot defeated her with a Kanna, and, without seeing the math, I'm told it's impossible without a Kanna. I'd like to see them try it with the same or similar party composition as the Scania clear before passing judgement. Regardless, due to the nature of Reboot there are a number of things that could be done which don't involve AO. The top players don't need AO so neither does anyone else.

    The comparison in strength is drawn with KMS all the time. I'm only able to use what I've heard and what I've heard is that KMS players are stronger. I don't know if I believe that. GMS defeated hard Lucid 3 and a half months after KMS did. I think the only true way to determine who's stronger is whether GMS players are able to complete new content in the same time frame as KMS players had. Though that's hard to judge because we typically get multiple patches at once. For example this last TuneUp patch we got was spread from the last day of Feb to the end of May in KMS. KMS defeated her somewhere between 0 and 3 months since the tuneup updates, and GMS defeated her 1 month after the same update. I don't think there's a major gap either way.

    The reason I've brought up potential is because even without bpot and nebs you can still climb pretty high with everything else. The problem is the legendary tier takes forever to get into. It's not completely locked away like bpot, but we could definitely do with more meister cubes than we're currently getting. I'd hazard a guess that most of the players asking for AO only have a couple of legendaries at best. Once you've got at least 12% stat on every item you should be strong enough to kill the bosses that'll bring in good money and you can buy your way into bpot. I think your comparison to occult cubes is unfair. When they're around they're much more plentiful than any other cubes and can be used to build your potentials up to epic rank so that you can use better cubes to improve from there. Whether or not you used a boss flame before a crafted flame doesn't matter; it completely overwrites it.
  • MageOfBattlesMageOfBattles
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    edited October 2017
    Fair enough. I've said it myself on the forums before, I'd prefer to improve on what we have than focusing on what we don't. I like the idea of making meister cubes more available, it'd be a good start.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited October 2017
    Fair enough. I've said it myself on the forums before, I'd prefer to improve on what we have than focusing on what we don't. I like the idea of making meister cubes more available, it'd be a good start.

    I do have a cube drop thread, so cube suggestions are welcome there. I was hoping we can get cubes dropping from bosses. The only cubes that drop from bosses are Master Craftsmen Cubes and occasionally a Meister Cube. I was hoping we can get a Occult Cubes added as a guaranteed drop from bosses.

    I do agree that Meister tier up rates should be increased as well as their drop rate from bosses.

    http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/15844/occult-cubes-as-boss-drops#latest

  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited October 2017
    add >15 star so that new high level gear is actually relevant to the game.

    Currently some people use the weapon as a minor upgrade and everyone can use the shoulder when the second boss is added but other than that the 200 gear is mostly junk and the absolab set is 100% junk.
  • ZambookiiZambookii
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    edited October 2017
    I don't get why global decided to add nebulites. They copy everything else from KMS anyways so why not copy flames? Flames are 100% the better option as global has A nebs and S nebs and we rarely see them, except from events. Flames drop from bosses which is way better.
  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
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    edited October 2017
    Zambookii wrote: »
    I don't get why global decided to add nebulites. They copy everything else from KMS anyways so why not copy flames? Flames are 100% the better option as global has A nebs and S nebs and we rarely see them, except from events. Flames drop from bosses which is way better.

    I agree with you are better because kms keeps updating them.

    As for nebulites gms had nebulites before kms released flames, so they decided it's "good enough"

  • ArrowsMindArrowsMind
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    edited October 2017
    there is currently in the luna server a massive diffrence with funded and less funded people like the real rich funded people can afford flamed gear and throw nebs on it and prime it the less funded people ahs to paly with 30%trced gear non flamed and cant afford nebs since flamed gear is getting limited in the luna server there becomes a more massive range gap betweent he funded and unfunded. it would be a good thing to make the game more equall to implement flames to all servers.
    i hope to see everyone can obtain simulair gear instead of some people ahving like for example an advantage of so much stat and att its just not fair to people in the luna server that half the population cant catch up currently tom the people who are ahead so i say implement flames to make server equality
  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
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    edited October 2017
    ArrowsMind wrote: »
    there is currently in the luna server a massive diffrence with funded and less funded people like the real rich funded people can afford flamed gear and throw nebs on it and prime it the less funded people ahs to paly with 30%trced gear non flamed and cant afford nebs since flamed gear is getting limited in the luna server there becomes a more massive range gap betweent he funded and unfunded. it would be a good thing to make the game more equall to implement flames to all servers.
    i hope to see everyone can obtain simulair gear instead of some people ahving like for example an advantage of so much stat and att its just not fair to people in the luna server that half the population cant catch up currently tom the people who are ahead so i say implement flames to make server equality

    Arwoo said on stream, that the ms team are discussing about the possibility of implementing Flames and a higher star force cap into gms.

    i just hope we get to be able to craft flames, and get them from events, ie: event shops,monster collection etc...
    Nyara
  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
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    edited October 2017
    here's how much Max Star Force every equip will have based on level :

    jfVRQGM.png

    Also a reminder for GMS Stuff, we didn't get 25 stars so the game balance we'll be kept, but after AbsoLab and Arcane Umbra Equpiment have been introduced, they only benefit from star forcing past 15 stars. other wise all the new equpiment doesn't even worth the hard bosses that needs defeating in order to get said equipment.

    upyMK3U.png


    Also the problem with MEE'S was not the High stats. it was that it gave such high stats to low level equpiment. as you can see 20 Star Force is only for equipment from level : 140 - 149.


    and 25 star force only for equipment from level: 140 - 250.
    so getting 20 stars on a silver blossom ring is impossible with out mee's
    25 star forced cap system is balanced
    MEE'S are Imbalanced

    We need a star force cap increase to make AbsoLab and Arcane Umbra relevant.

    not only shoulder and weapon
    because what's the point of gearing to kills Lotus/Damien/Lucid
    if 80% of the sets not worth ?

    Currently in GMS: BiS Cra hat top bottom, tyrant shoe,cape,glove,belt, and Arcane Umbra Weapon. with an AbsoLab/Arcane Umbra Shoulder.

    if GMS get's 20/25 Star Force cap increase, then Tyrants would be replaced with AbsoLab for Shoe,glove,cape,weapon

    and BiS end game would be 17/22 Star Forced, Arcane Umbra Hat,Shoe,Glove,Cape,Shoulder Weapon,

    Because from 16 Stars+ level 140+ equipment get's More stats and ATT from each stars, but the chance to destroy the equipment and fail is higher as well.

    the best thing about bringing over a higher star force cap, is introducing a new Meso sing, that GMS desperately needs.

    as well as having the option to safeguard star force from 12 Stars all the way to 17 Star Force, which at 17 Stars AbsoLab starts being comparable to tyrants plus

    having a set effect helps, currently player in KMS Use AbsoLab 17 Star Forced Shoe,Glove,Cape,Shoulder,Weapon, and maybe sometimes hat. Choas root abyss top and bottom are still Best In Slot, because they are Top and bottom, instead of overall like on AbsoLab/Arcane Umbra.

    20/25 Star Force cap increase would help F2P players. as well as intoducing a new meso sink into the game. and those No booms AEE only work up to 15 Stars, so mesos would slowly start becoming valueble again in gms. Currently Mesos are Valued more in KMS then in GMS, in the Luna Server on KMS 1 Billion Mesos can get you 66,420 Maple Points. currently in GMS Bera Server 1 Billion Mesos can get you 1,386 Maple Points. (in the Meso Market)

    if we get 20/25 Star Force cap increase that would help to decrease the amount of mesos each player has, and slowly stabilize the market, and make mesos valuable

    once againe, currently in gms USD are more valued then Mesos, and almsot every trade, even simple as Clean tyrant gloves, invlodes USD, this is not what a market

    should be like in a MMO. i truly believe if GMS get's a star force cap increase to 20 or even 25, then Mesos : Maple Points ration, will slowly start stabilizing

    and 1 Billion Mesos would be not worth 66.4K Maple Points, but at least 10,25K Maple Points, because 1 Billion Mesos for 1.38K Maple points. is just laughably bad for the game, the players, and nexon in general. i hope that GMS will flourish sometime in the future as it was a couple of years ago.

    Here's to a better Future for Global MapleStory. May GMS will become a Massive MMO once again, as it did once!

    tenor.gif
    DoKing
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited October 2017
    I previously didn't want the flames of rebirth but if they aren't revamping the nebulite system or at least making it drop more, then we may as well get the flames right now. We have already had 2 instances where flames accidentally made their way into the game because its sitting in the database. I say we either get S nebs or flames, anything is better than nothing.
  • ShadowRikuShadowRiku
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    edited October 2017
    I think it would be nice if we aren't getting a nebulite revamp any time soon.
    They aren't easy to get, especially in Reboot.

    That and getting S rank nebs takes ages too.
  • pepepepe
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    edited October 2017
    If Nexon has already committed to just copy-pasting whatever KMS makes then getting flames of rebirth and 25 stars is a no brainer.
  • ZephyrusSpringZephyrusSpring
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    edited October 2017
    Phantom I don't think you're fully thinking through what effects adding higher starforce will have. Starforce is a one-time meso sink. It will only have an effect on the economy in the short run, and it's completely in favour of those who already have the money to pay for it. F2P players can't afford to star tyrant gear so how can you expect them to afford starring 17+ stars? As it is it's hard to justify spending the money to go beyond 10 stars. Higher starforce is a trap for unaware players to waste all of their money, and just another way for the rich and powerful to get even more powerful while the poor can't keep up.

    KMS realised the mistake they made with tyrant gear almost immediately, which is why they introduced MEEs to balance the scales. Sadly that was just one poorly thoughout idea after another, so they had to invalidate that as well by introducing higher starforce. All of it could have been avoided if they just took the "superior" status away from tyrant gear. I don't know how many thousands of dollars have been spent on PSOKs to trade these things in GMS and I doubt they're even capable of doing something like that on their own. Regardless, I believe in the vision of whoever was in charge of GMS at the time of unleashed, it's better to leave the game broken than to break it even further. The only way to truly fix gear balance is to nerf tyrants.

    Oh and KMS's mesos are as strong as they are because they don't have more bots than players inflating the economy to the moon.
  • chaoscauserchaoscauser
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    edited October 2017
    With the current damage cap no reason not to Flames/AO. Throw the unfunded players a bone Nexon.
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited October 2017
    just give up on nebs and give us flames and stars. It will be so much better for the game.
    NyaraUxiedarik
  • ArrowsMindArrowsMind
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    edited October 2017
    when nebs where released it was 2012 and damage cap was still 1m than sf cap changed to 50m and at that time sf cam out later on in kms and than to gms and showed how overpowerd it was in kms so gms kept it down at 15* cap but at the time when sf was introced the cap was just 50m now damage cap is 10b its 200x as high and we still got a 15* cap and endgame gear which is useless cause too low of a star cap and no flames to make up for the diffrent amount of stat from the items so it would be good to introduce a 25* cap and flames to gms. its litterly a good way to revive maplestory
    darik