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Community Topic Regarding Suicide Kanna
Comments
Hard agree on this. It's fine to start handing out bans after letting everyone know that they will be handed out for this particular activity, but it's kind of skeevy to start going at it without prior warning. Anyone who was banned explicitly for suicide-kanna should have their accounts released and this particular instance struck from whatever record nexon keeps of prior infractions.
@Ghiblee please bring this up to the relevant parties, because it's not right to do things this way.
i "play" reboot, for extra clarity..... you had to end like that ? sound like this
Hey guys am new playergot 2k nodes and 300b meso what i should mainFeel free to hate me, I'm just here to tell Nexon that I think it's a good policy
i know you bait for arguments on that one
i have said same when people were acting stupid like " am gonna sue nexon i used nx and they ban me"
nexon can ban for what ever they want and unban as they want
there is person that got ban for cheating/macro but because of x popular $ benefits got back as offranked only
here we got kanna farmers that didnt know for most of it and as nexon claim "possibility of it being a bannable offense."
they all stay bannned Even though it is not related to the use of an illicit program
(btw further nexon incompetence was tickets reply to this issue month ago and how they got ban for hacking)
and banning players for this can be considered as an activity that exploits the game feature as the maps are designed to be used by players at a certain level.
if we follow what activitys nexon think exploits the game features we are all going to get ban
game feature are made to be exploited as long as its within rules stated
small examples
cra boss clown
die at end to kill both at same time without each switch collor ?
maplehood/event store on many chars ?
are we going to get ban and later on claim that it was meant to be used 1char per acc ?
1acc per user
2pc meta - kanna mules for kish ban all then claim it was exploited it was meant to be 1acc/user
if nexon dont limit/warrn us on time things are going to be "exploited"
but oh well nexonNA i dont care am out of it for while even tho i chek from time to time
I don't think I am doing wrong if I wanted to stay at the same level for the benefit of the mobs around that level so be it.
and its Nexon fault why? cause you don't have the same rates at higher level mobs, which is stupid and against any common sense.
who the hell heard about lower mobs that give u better rates than higher level mobs. that's where the problem begins.
against any logic sense, all the other games you don't need to stuck at lower mobs, cause its works in a good direction.
you want to get to higher mobs cause in any other game you know you get progress with the game you will get better gain.
but only at Maplestory and Nexon it's just the opposite.
as long you are getting proggers at leveling your gain getting smaller than the gain from lower mobs.
here this is the main problem. so Nexon causes all this mass of suicide in begin with. so maybe Nexon should ask themself why ppl don't wanna level up and get to higher mobs like other normal games, cause it works the opposite of normal games.
they break the nature of the game, meaning if you got to higher mobs= better earnings but at maple it does not work like that if u get to higher mobs u getting fk by lower rates, that's what makes u wanna stay at lower level for getting better rates.
so maybe u should ask what caused this problem in the first place, rather than tell us its wrong to stay at lower level by killing urself by mobs in a legit way!!!!!!!
I was hit by this ban and it took A LOT of work from me to even get the reason to why i was banned. i get unbanned nov 24, but there are many others who got banned recently and it is very infuriating that we got retroactively banned, told we were banned for acting like botters. And then an official statement comes out saying this whole thing is now bannable is a joke
100% agree with you
No, I'm saying that I don't care if you disagree with me.
I'm here to say "Good job", unironically, to Nexon directly.
I agree with this. Despite this being a high risk on the fence if it was bannable or not, some people did not know it wasn't allowed.
The ban message that people got about "death activity" might not have been clear enough, if they got this message at all.
Let people know going forward this is bannable, warn people for the first offense and start banning from bare minimum second offense and up.
Unless you slap a big warning when people make a new character/account that this is bannable, there's no way for someone who just downloads the game to know.
I think the point was that for players who have Arcana Kanna farmers, this announcement won't affect them since "suiciding" at level 240s will be less frequent and more natural, and you may have been just one of these players apathetic about the players who haven't gotten to that point yet.
You've mentioned previously that you were glad Nexon was more explicit with the decision to ban the act of Suicide Kannas. What kind of overall benefit do you think this will have on the Reboot server in terms of... honestly anything? Do you really think this would affect hackers who can simply just make another account or meso farming not their main purpose? What about the prospective players who may be reading what's now outdated meso farming guides and getting banned for it? Heck I've been playing Maplestory for about 4 months and don't have an Arcana Kanna to farm with. What about players like me who are now forced to get my Kanna beyond level 230 or suffer inferior progress rates?
It would've helped your point if you included why (reasoning) you thought this was a good idea along with your opinion. Until then, I'd say you've earned the "hate" others have displayed.
Anyway, to input my own two cents
My stance is obviously towards disagreeing with this entire decision. I'm Korean and get a lot of info from KMS so it's a "no-duh" fact that KR Reboot exists and they don't have Kanna or Byebye. That being said, GMS does have a bit more difficult progression in terms of mesos (Star Force after 15* costs nearly double compared to KMS) and thus it's only appropriate for GMS Reboot servers to have some kind of advantage outside of the 6x Meso Reboot passive to earn mesos.
My stance against this announcement is more corresponding to others on this thread claiming that losing EXP for dying is a game system we're utilizing to our advantage. It's literally the same as using, say 5th job skills that have iframes to avoid one-shots; the iframe is probably there so the attack with the long cooldown isn't interrupted or become bugged, but we're using it to cheese boss mechanics for example. Not to mention that losing EXP for death is really an outdated mechanic for MMOs, and the only other one I can think of with this feature is Mabinogi (but the effects of EXP loss in that game is abysmal). Other games penalize death with durability damage or item losses.
Not to mention that even if we assume Suicide Kanna is indeed a malicious exploit, we still have hackers running around even in the Esfera regions and I commonly see mobs grouped up in various maps including popular training spots or Arcane River maps suggesting the previous user there was hacking. Heck even if we're turning a blind eye to hackers due to circumstances such as GMS being understaffed/incapable to fight them there's still bots/macros that a LOT of people use and don't get detected because they're otherwise harmless and GMS would have no way to prove the user was botting unless they recorded the actions and analyzed them over a period of time. I'm just saying maybe instead of acting against players who are more likely to be legitimately playing the game "abusing" a harmless mechanic only to progress faster (which is still subject to RNG, mind you), more of this banning effort can be directed towards hackers and botters. Now I understand this is a radical opinion that's insane and untold of
(viva sarcasm), but just give it some consideration.Maplestory Staff as a whole is definitely missing the point. Nerfing Demon Avenger's Shield Chasing skill to the ground because of how the class was abused by botters, then making the excuse that it was a bug that the Shields reappeared? Nerfing Holy Symbol entirely because in KMS botters would advertise/trade with other players in a single map (Easy Cygnus) that could've been monitored by a GM? Now we're saying playing the game and using strategies to progress faster without any kind of hacks, bots, or illicit activities is "unintended behavior" and threatening bans with 0 effort in remedying it to discourage the "abuse" of of Suicide Kannas. Sounds like an irresponsible parent who tells their child to not do drugs/smoke but leave the alcohol and tobacco in plain sight available to the child then reprimanding the child later.
Heck I've posted on Reddit the exact same thing--I'm legit surprised how GMS didn't completely remove Kanna as a class because most of the hackers use a Kanna and even for this issue it's the same class causing this problem. Based on their pattern of fixing problems that would've been the most logical course of action.
It goes without saying, but I'll be pretty clear to any of the volunteers/staff members/anyone with a reasonable brain to comprehend this wall of text--the problem isn't the ban of Suicide Kannas; the community is just super frustrated that this game is a mess in so many ways (disconnects, bugs, memory leaks, hackers, bots, lag) but when it comes to one thing that isn't even detrimental the entire bloody GMS team arises from the grave to address it in a few days, and there's minimal effort for the Staff to give alternatives to Suicide Kannas or working with the playerbase for better solutions than just simply stating "you gon b banned".
Suicide Kanna is a clear abuse of game mechanics, but outside of that it just reinforces a solo meta.
Why gather other players to help make up for your short comings when you can just suicide kanna all day long?
As a player who has never used kanna in any regard I'm here to say that you don't need one to advance in the game. Even going the solo route.
Suicide Kanna is straying further away from party play, something players claim to hate.
When changes are made that make solo play weaker and party play more appealing/required, players complain.
Yes I would rather see party play buffed rather than see solo play nerfed. But Kanna is basically something you'd see out of a private server.
It's my personal opinion that she needs to be nerfed into the ground. No meta should ever revolve entirely around one character in a game with 40+.
Solo play should be possible, yes. Absolutely. But there's no reason why an MMO, a Massively Multiplayer Online Game, should ever have solo play be the better option.
It should be your "I've run out of friends/randoms to help me with so I guess I'll go solo for a bit" option, not your end game.
As I mentioned before, I'm not here to change minds. I don't care if players hate me. I just wanted Nexon to know that I don't hate this policy.
KMS has working non-reboot so they dont need to care for working KMS reboot
let rebootrs talk about their issue i know you dont reboot and you just wrote that for the sake its there
why you write this lol reboot its all about kanna and farming each time there is
change-nerf it hurts and makes that braindead grind/farm longeryou dont use that because you main non-reboot you mostly pay for meso/gear/lvl
and got reboot char for the sake its there
imagine
like makeing craft mules on non-reboot banable because you "exploit" cooldown to craft more cubes instead of going CS and buying red/black cubes $$$$ and all who used to get ban without warrning
It's my personal opinion that she needs to be nerfed into the ground. No meta should ever revolve entirely around one character in a game with 40+.
Solo play should be possible, yes. Absolutely. But there's no reason why an MMO, a Massively Multiplayer Online Game, should ever have solo play be the better option.
It should be your "I've run out of friends/randoms to help me with so I guess I'll go solo for a bit" option, not your end game.
As I mentioned before, I'm not here to change minds. I don't care if players hate me. I just wanted Nexon to know that I don't hate this policy.
what team play has to do with this ? thats other issue made by nexon years ago its not reboot or non-reboot fault that nexon fails to optimize PQ's....
this issue its about makeing reboot meso sink bigger ( kinda fair) but also nonone wants to grind extra more braindead hours
its not about frequent and more natura suicid nexon will and allready do ban if you dont move on to next map after some time spend there
for example if you get 2%exp/hour
and you are supposed to lvl in 50-60h~ + "few accidentally death/lose exp"
if the farming on that location continue you are risking to get ban as nexon wants you to lvl and move on next
or like if mob A gives 5exp
and you need like 50exp to lvl
you can kill 10mob A and few extra cus
accidentally death/lose expshould be 15mobs Abut if nexon see you killed more then that and you did not lvl you "abuse the new rule" and you will get ban ;(
nexonNA want meso farming to be harder ->income lower->play/farm time longer
I am a kanna from Scania, and I was permanently banned on the day of October 17. I didn't do much to do the activity. I suddenly thought of the event that day, so I went to do it. Then I dropped the line and showed that I was permanently banned. I appealed to the present, GM's reply is always the words, they told me to wait patiently, but I have been waiting for a reply. If there is a problem with kanna, please modify it and release it.
You couldn't have spoken truer words--I completely agree with this opinion. Heck I actually kinda want GMS to completely remove her from the game exclusively or redo some revamps to make her less desirable as a class. The problem with that is it'll piss off a lot of people, and even while I share your opinion I know as a fact (quite disdainfully) a Kanna nerf/removal will cause detrimental effects on GMS Reboot as a whole. The only reason why I may not be AS vehemently against Kanna such as yourself is because it's a class that's readily accessible for everyone--not a time limited class or a class that you need to pay for/significantly work towards
To go off topic a bit and discuss your opinion of Maplestory being really a Solo-only game nowadays it's important to note way back in Pre-BB PQs were the objective best way to level while getting "leeched" was also more effective than solo-grinding. These are all party-based features that players "utilized" but if you asked Nexon said "leeching" would probably have been considered a similar offense to Suicide Kannas. However, with the revamps of classes to be given additional mobility and faster map clearing skills and overall power inflation, along with nerfs on party play (inability to gain EXP while not in Combat Stance) and decreasing population due to some bad patches (i.e. Unlimited) AND the aforementioned abuse of getting six times the amount of mesos for running multiple clients during bosses, Maplestory really had no choice but to resort to making everything solo-oriented regardless of whether it was a good choice or not. The other option to leave it be would cause absolute chaos and probably killed off the game much quicker (such as for the multiple client bosses exploit).
I have utmost respect for you as a veteran of this game and a knowledgeable debater, but it's definitely not fair to critique any game fully aware of its history and why it needed to turn out to be this solo-oriented game (Most MMOs end up becoming generally solo-oriented anyways too, from the power inflation or simply the fact that it's just not worth to party play). I guess if you wanted to point fingers it can be towards Nexon for its bad patches and the players who "abused party systems", but if I may be so impudent to make a suggestion that if you want party-play or co-op in your games you should be playing something like the FPS genre and not an RPG in this day and age where people are so lazy they're willing to buy progress in games with money and KMS already implemented a way to skip Arcane Dailies by using Maple Points... so asking them to gather party members for a task might as well be asking them to kill themselves
Remember how everyone was stuck on Nett's Pyramid for the Adventurer Step Up and how no one does PQs anymore except for DRPQ and the occasional groups who farm PQ Points? Yeahhhhhhh
I think its an easy thing to say if you've already progressed to the point where farming on your main is more productive than Bye Bye farming.
Referencing the fact that you play on reboot, the most affected server, means nothing if you are already strong enough to farm on your main. because you got over the hump back when the hump was considerably smaller.
In which case, it doesn't matter to you because it doesn't effect you.
Nothing to really hate there, its comes of as a bit apatheitic towards the community and mildly self-centered, but not really worthy of hate.
Besides, why would you be mad when all it does is make it more difficult for newer players to reach the point you've reached, a point you just so happened to reach before all the major changes that impacted meso farming occurred, things like the meso level penalty, kishin nerf, and now the official stance on suicide farming.
I can farm on my main as well, and I make just about the same amount of meso as I made bye bye farming (~550m per hour), however bye bye is more relaxing. allowing me to pay attention to movies or shows while farming, which is nice to pass the time. Farming on my main requires more focus, making distracted playing less of an option. which means that this change really only increases the monotony of farming for me, not the output.
Not that you would care about how monotonous other people find farming, but knowing what it took for me to get to this point, I do care, and so I feel bad for new players and weaker players, who will now be forced to farm on their main, for lower meso rates, under circumstances that demand more focus, for considerably longer hours, all for the *possibility*, not guarantee, of progressing.
But lets be honest, this move will more likely just motivate people to risk actual hacking, since legitimate farming on bye bye now carries the same risk of being perma-banned as using actual third party programs.
Want an actual solution? Since GMS seems intent to become a clone of KMS anyways, how about they reduce the cost of starforcing to match KMS?
however, are you guys all aware of this?(latest reply also included this information)
1. KMS allows this "suicide" method to farm "droplets." ( now if you are new player or do not know what the droplets are for, you SHOULD NOT be part of this argument and saying the new ban policy is totally acceptable.)
-> you simply cannot meet the end game boss requirement WITHOUT farming droplets. and
it is INPOSSIBLE to farm enough droplets without suiciding to stay in certain lv. range to farm them.w/o earning exp/meso penalty Thus, KMS allows it2. GMS(reboot) already has a higher 'star force' ing fee.
-> Yes, we have familiar system and farming kanna. With this new policy, they will have to gear up even further to efficiently farm(or even just be able to kill monsters), but how are the new players supposed to make meso to gear up to kill monsters if their leveling/monsters getting stronger ratio simply exceeds getting meso to gear up?
3. Regular server players simply do not have right to talk about this new policy. You guys can trade end game gears and even pay money to "gacha" them.
despite the "bye bye suicide kanna" method, end game players are affected by the new policy. Go back to #1 and read about the droplets.
If you are happy about this new policy banning more potential/possible/actual hackers, then you should ask for better hack detection.
there is no right or answer however you play the game. you can do quests or just hunt monsters. nothing a wrong answer. People just decide to do something more efficient than others and farming is one of them. Adding "no suicide" policy simply disable anyone to reach the end game in reboot and removing malaysia region would not solve the suiciding farming method because players WILL find another efficient farming map.
Then what do we suggest Nexon to do? A better hack detection.
This new policy seems like "Oh, because we cannot
differentiate between hackers and innocent players, YOU deal with it." what a simple way to solve the problem.
it is like we pay for our food (buy nx, and play the game) in a resturant and get scared while eating the food because that resturant has a policy of how you are suppoed to eat (this new policy of banning).
Besides talking about ToS and backing up nexon by saying "they have the absolute power to rule us by banning for whatever reason."
Can we at least have a clear guide-line? like suiciding 3 times within 10min time frame is not allowed or dying to challenge a strong monster while you do not have potions is not allowed (are kannas not allowed to fight strong monsters now? because they are suppoed to die...talking about reboot sized ellite boss, monsters)
Another suggestion is to minimize the hackers' input. they are usually not affected by bans because they can simply make a new account and start over. this can be done by keeping all the old accounts but only accepting gmail for creating new account going forward.
there is stuff like IP ban or even more powerful HWID ban but i guess there is law/policy involved in this one.
Droplets are not affected by level penalty.
Only meso and EXP are affected by level. Everything else, from spell traces and potions to droplets and equipment, keeps dropping at the same rate no matter what level you are.
The only thing that happens when you overlevel an arcane river area is that you won't get meso while farming droplets.
I don't know what KMS players do or don't do, I'm just pointing out that keeping your character at a certain level is NOT required for collecting droplets.
Based on replies here and on reddit, it seems people absolutely do think the problem is the ban of suicide kannas. The GMS team only addressed it so "quickly" because because it became a big topic around recent false bans. In fact, with the history of false bans surrounding suicide kannas for the past year I would say they addressed it quite late, which a lot of people agree with, since they're vocal about having become so reliant on abusing this method already.
You mentioned how they killed leeching in another post, and while there are other solutions that could effectively gut the suicide method and make it non-viable in similar ways, the difference is that there is already an autoban in place to catch hackers that abuse the same method for the same purpose; to make maximum profit off of low-level outdated content, forever.
Simply stating "you gon b banned" might actually be the better solution in this case.
Nexon isn't obligated to blatantly provide an alternative meta. That's for players to figure out, just like they've done before.
There are alternative metas out there, there is content out there. It may not be as profitable or braindead as Bye-Bye farming, but there are alternatives.
But like you said, people are lazy.
I do agree with StarryKnight that SF costs need to be cut down to the same level as KMS though. They can put meso sinks elsewhere and keep cracking down on hackers to balance the economy.
Using Iframe to avoiding death it's meaning you are taking advantage of an exploit in the game that not intended to be used.
like suicide Kanna, it should be bannable offense aswell. and yet I don't see any statement about any other exploits except suicide Kanna exploit.
Nexon should make a list of all the exploit we shouldn't take advantage of, and mark them as risk of getting a ban. why they point only to one exploit, maybe because it is the most famous one than the others? or maybe because it is the most profitable one than the others?
who really know why they do what they do. it always seems to be careless about the player base of reboot server especially for the new player base,
the old ones that have main farmer will not get affected by this new policy only the newcomers or the fresh starters will get the blow from this new policy.
but why should Nexon taking care about the new player base of this game "we have an old player base that spends money" at least they don't get hurt because of this policy "very well Nexon we can tell your decision will affect the whole player base in equally with no exceptions".
Y'all need to stop with the "lol dying's illegal now" memes too if you want anyone to take you and your complaints seriously. Because right now, they're probably paying attention to the community response and just figure "oh they'll meme about it for a couple weeks and then forget all about it".