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Full Nebulite revamp - Preparation for V

NeospectorNeospector
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edited November 2016 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
It appears we aren't getting Additional Options any time soon. But the V patch's removed damage cap will still require a way to push players beyond the 50m damage area. Without some way to drastically increase damage, players will be unable to face Lucid. Arcane Force helps some, but is a base stat, not a multiplicable stat. Therefore, here's how I suggest revamping Nebulites:
  1. Remove useless stat lines:
    Some stat lines present in Nebulites are entirely useless. These include things like facial expressions, abnormal status resistance, etc. Having some bad lines in potential works because potential lines come in sets of 3 (we'll get to this later), but Nebulites only possess one stat line per Nebulite. This means that useless lines are worse for Nebulites than they are for potential. They ought to be removed.
  2. Nebulite buy-back:
    Nebulites are extremely similar to the V-matrix cores for 5th job. The cores, however, can be disassembled and traded if you don't get the one you want. It stands to reason that a similar option should be available for Nebulites. Here's the thing: we already have a shop that sells Nebulite boxes for "alien coins" in New Leaf City. Let's take advantage of that; allow players to sell or trade in Nebulites for alien coins via an NPC in New Leaf City. These coins can go towards purchasing new Nebulites from the already existing shop.
    • D-Nebulites can be traded in for 2 coins
    • C-Nebulites for 5 coins
    • B-Nebulites for 10 coins
    • A-Nebulites for 15 coins
    This means that people will be purchasing at a loss, making it beneficial to kill the Galacto-Drill boss for spare coins.
  3. Multiple Nebulites per equipment:
    Modeled after Mabinogi's enchantment system, I think it would be beneficial to allow multiple Nebulites to be equipped on each item. One extra line per equipment is not that big of a damage boost. Coupled with the fact that not all pieces of equipment can have a Nebulite equipped, it doesn't make sense to limit players to one per equip. I propose the following:
    • Overalls, tops, and bottoms can equip 5 Nebulites
    • Hats, shoes, gloves, weapons can equip 3 Nebulites
  4. Remove Nebulite fusion tickets, replace with meso-based system:
    Similar to potential and magnifying glasses, I believe removing the required fusion tickets from the cash shop is beneficial. Instead, turn the system into a meso sink with the following cost grades:
    • D-Nebulites require 2,500 mesos to fuse
    • C-Nebulites require 5,000 mesos to fuse
    • B-Nebulites require 10,000 mesos to fuse
    • A-Nebulites require 25,000 mesos to fuse
    At a cost per-Nebulite, as described by the following:
    • Fuse 2 D-Nebulites together = 2,500 + 2,500 = 5,000 total cost
    • Fuse one D-Nebulite and one C-Nebulite together = 2,500 + 5,000 = 7,500
    • Fuse two C-Nebulites together = 5,000 + 5,000 = 10,000
    • Fuse one C-Nebulite and one B-Nebulite = 5,000 + 10,000 = 15,000
    • Fuse two B-Nebulites together = 10,000 + 10,000 = 20,000
    • Fuse one B-Nebulite and one A-Nebulite = 10,000 + 25,000 = 35,000
    • Fuse two A-Nebulites = 25,000 + 25,000 = 50,000
    Because the resulting Nebulite and the chance of tier-up is still random, this means that a player is not guaranteed a Nebulite they want easily.
  5. Nebulite re-rolling/The Moleculizer:
    Currently, fusion is the only way to re-roll Nebulites. This means you need to possess two Nebulites and pay the resulting fee. This is not efficient. Therefore, a method should be added to re-roll the stats on a Nebulite without requiring the player to fuse an additional Nebulite. I call it "The Moleculizer"; it functions similar to cubes and will re-roll a Nebulite's stats. Moleculizers can be sold in the cash shop for 1,200 NX, 1,200 reward points, or otherwise drop from bosses; exactly the same as cubes.
  6. The mystical S-Nebulite:
    With a meso-based fusion system, it makes sense to add S-Nebulites as the highest tier to obtain. S-Nebulites have the following attributes to conform to the suggestion:
    • S-Nebulites can be traded in for 25 coins
    • S-Nebulites cost 50,000 mesos to fuse
    This is because S-Nebulites are akin to legendary potential, meaning they should be what players aim for when attempting to reach end-game.
To recap:
  1. Remove useless stat lines
  2. Allow Nebulites to be traded in
  3. Allow multiple Nebulites to be equipped
  4. Replace current fusion system with a meso-based one
  5. Allow the re-rolling of Nebulites without fusion
  6. Add in S-ranked Nebulites
This will allow players to hit end-game and be able to fight the monsters that are arriving in the V update.
ClawStaffIts2Sharp4UIvangoldUzumeCatoooloooJettLuvsUimmalilmonstarAaronHuskyPetalmagicPonPonand 6 others.

Comments

  • ClawStaffClawStaff
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    edited November 2016
    This is a good suggestion, much more thought out than some other nebulite revamp suggestions. A few of them simply asked for a change like adding S ranks.

    I support this.
  • Its2Sharp4UIts2Sharp4U
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    edited November 2016
    Neospector


    Nebulite re-rolling/The Moleculizer:
    Currently, fusion is the only way to re-roll Nebulites. This means you need to possess two Nebulites and pay the resulting fee. This is not efficient. Therefore, a method should be added to re-roll the stats on a Nebulite without requiring the player to fuse an additional Nebulite. I call it "The Moleculizer"; it functions similar to cubes and will re-roll a Nebulite's stats. Moleculizers can be sold in the cash shop for 1,200 NX, 1,200 reward points, or otherwise drop from bosses; exactly the same as cubes.
    Isn't this just Alien Cubes, or am I missing something here?

    Otherwise, nice suggestion!
  • NovaDragonNovaDragon
    Reactions: 355
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    edited November 2016
    Your suggestion sounds like you came from the private servers.

    It would be weird for my hat to have 3 orange nebulites

    It would be overpowered to have 3 handpicked lines of6% stat. If i had 6 boss nebs...

    Im not sure if they confirmed we arent getting flames. If We had craftable flames and they didnt added scissor counts, i think it would be extremely beneficial to the community in terms of more activities and a stable economy
    Equal_AlecJorjax
  • Its2Sharp4UIts2Sharp4U
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    edited November 2016
    NovaDragon

    Im not sure if they confirmed we arent getting flames.
    I believe this would answer the question:
    KThxBaiNao

    Hello,

    We appreciate your suggestions, however, we have already stated in previous threads that there are no current plans to implement the Flames of Rebirth.
    GMS/EMS and Flames of Rebirth
  • NeospectorNeospector
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    edited November 2016
    NovaDragon

    Your suggestion sounds like you came from the private servers.

    It would be weird for my hat to have 3 orange nebulites

    It would be overpowered to have 3 handpicked lines of6% stat. If i had 6 boss nebs...

    Im not sure if they confirmed we arent getting flames. We had craftable flames and they didnt added scissor counts, i think it would be extremely beneficial to the community in terms of more activities and a stable economy
    It would also be extremely difficult for any legitimate user to obtain 3 orange Nebulites, simply given the rarity of Nebulites overall.

    And if you had 3 handpicked lines of 6% stat I would applaud you, but this basically works like scrolls used to, or Mabinogi's enchantment system works; the Nebulites you obtain are random and hard to get, and you cannot re-roll them once they're on your equips (also like scrolls).

    We will most likely not be getting Additional Options, although I do prefer the system to Nebulites and continue to suggest it in the in-game surveys.
    Q: How would EMS's Rebirth Flames and Additional Options be affected by the Migration?
    A: Rebirth Flames were removed. Additional Options will be kept on items that already have it. However the Additional Options system will not be implemented in GMS.
    They could change their mind, although it would be unlikely.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited November 2016
    Neospector

    NovaDragon

    Your suggestion sounds like you came from the private servers.

    It would be weird for my hat to have 3 orange nebulites

    It would be overpowered to have 3 handpicked lines of6% stat. If i had 6 boss nebs...

    Im not sure if they confirmed we arent getting flames. We had craftable flames and they didnt added scissor counts, i think it would be extremely beneficial to the community in terms of more activities and a stable economy
    It would also be extremely difficult for any legitimate user to obtain 3 orange Nebulites, simply given the rarity of Nebulites overall.

    And if you had 3 handpicked lines of 6% stat I would applaud you, but this basically works like scrolls used to, or Mabinogi's enchantment system works; the Nebulites you obtain are random and hard to get, and you cannot re-roll them once they're on your equips (also like scrolls).

    Which means that the only the rich will get them.
    The same people who are able to prime their gear, cube both normal and bonus potential to legendary and 3 useful lines, and enhance it to 15 stars, will also have 3-5 S-nebs on every single item.
    Meanwhile, the plebes will have no nebs on their gear at all, both because they're rare and because you forgot to include the most important feature: no-cash diffusers.

    Sounds to me like a revamp that makes the strong absurdly stronger (oh yes, do let's have 3 boss S-nebs on weapon and secondary, and five 6% nebs on top and bottom...) while being of no use to the weak, except possibly by selling the nebs they find to those who have the meso to fuse them by the hundreds until something good comes out.
    gamechangerZephyrusSpring
  • gamechangergamechanger
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    edited November 2016
    Its2Sharp4U

    Neospector


    Nebulite re-rolling/The Moleculizer:
    Currently, fusion is the only way to re-roll Nebulites. This means you need to possess two Nebulites and pay the resulting fee. This is not efficient. Therefore, a method should be added to re-roll the stats on a Nebulite without requiring the player to fuse an additional Nebulite. I call it "The Moleculizer"; it functions similar to cubes and will re-roll a Nebulite's stats. Moleculizers can be sold in the cash shop for 1,200 NX, 1,200 reward points, or otherwise drop from bosses; exactly the same as cubes.
    Isn't this just Alien Cubes, or am I missing something here?

    Otherwise, nice suggestion!
    Alien cubes were removed a long time ago and never returned. But in essence yes its just alien cubes revisited.


    @Neospector overall positive direction, but way overpowered in general.

    1 - Agree 100%, along with removing D rank nebs. There is not 1 useful line on a D rank nebulite. Not one. And even a brand new level 1 character on a brand new account (so no link skills, no character cards, no Empress blessing etc...) will hardly notice the effects of even the strongest D neb which comes in at a whopping +1 attack or magic attack. The fact that a brand new level 1 character won't notice the effects of these nebs is more than enough reason to remove D rank nebs from the game entirely.

    2 - Again, agree 100%. The exchange rate may have to be modified a bit, but a good idea nonetheless, one that would certainly make nebs less painful

    3 - Absolutely not! Especially if you want to have S nebs introduced as well. 5 A rank nebs is an extra 20% stat per equip. This is beyond absurd levels of power creep. 1 Neb per equip. 2 at the very most, and then only if S nebs are removed from game data entirely and its heavily restricted which equips can get 2 nebs on them. If you want to use more nebs a better way to go about it is to increase the number of equips that can be nebbed to include pocket items, totems, and anything else that can't currently have a nebulite on it.

    4 - Agree 100%. The prices for B and A rank fusion are a bit low, if they were bumped up some (probably around 150k-200k mesos to fuse an A rank neb), then this could actually be used as a very effective meso sink. One caveat is that I would like to see fusion tickets still be applicable if you want to use them. Similar to how we can use either honor points or a circulator to reset IA.

    4b - This is my addendum to #4. Remove the chance to tier down when fusing nebs. Two C rank nebs should guarantee you a C or B rank neb when you fuse them. Similarly 2 B rank nebs should guarantee a B or A rank, and 2 A rank nebs should guarantee that you get an A rank neb out of it. Possibly also change it to where if you fuse two nebs of different but sequential tiers, you cannot tier up, but the result is the same tier as the higher neb you fused. So if you fused C and B rank, you are guaranteed a B rank out of it, but you cannot tier up to A rank. This may be too much though, but it would certainly increase the appeal to fuse nebs imo

    5 - Would be nice I guess, but not being able to reroll the stats on a neb is not the primary shortcoming of the neb system. I could do without this and never miss it honestly.

    6 - Absolutely not! Way too overpowered. Yes, 6% stat nebs is only 2% more stat per neb than A rank nebs, but it does add up once everything is nebbed. Not to mention, S nebs are overpowered because of their exclusive options. The meso and drop rate nebs are just too powerful and will only widen the gap between the average player and the super funded. And stuff like 30-35% boss is just riciculous on a neb.
  • ClawStaffClawStaff
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    edited November 2016
    Im not saying you don't have valid points, you do (in this post at least), but for a person named gamechanger you sure don't like the game to be changed. (Im not flaming or trolling or anything, just pointing out the irony).
  • NeospectorNeospector
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    edited November 2016
    AKradian
    AKradian said:



    Which means that the only the rich will get them.
    The same people who are able to prime their gear, cube both normal and bonus potential to legendary and 3 useful lines, and enhance it to 15 stars, will also have 3-5 S-nebs on every single item.
    Meanwhile, the plebes will have no nebs on their gear at all, both because they're rare and because you forgot to include the most important feature: no-cash diffusers.

    Sounds to me like a revamp that makes the strong absurdly stronger (oh yes, do let's have 3 boss S-nebs on weapon and secondary, and five 6% nebs on top and bottom...) while being of no use to the weak, except possibly by selling the nebs they find to those who have the meso to fuse them by the hundreds until something good comes out.
    Weaker players can easily grind Nebulites by killing Galacto-drill. No one does that quest line because they don't consider it worth it, so no one realizes that you can just buy Nebulites from a shop like spell traces.

    Even "strong" players are held back by the rarity of Nebulite boxes from normal field mobs (because they also refuse to kill the drill). Most damage in the game comes from potential and bonus potential, not Nebulites.
  • NovaDragonNovaDragon
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    edited November 2016
    Is the flame for nebulite a better trade off
  • DepressedAranDepressedAran
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    edited November 2016
    If Lucid is your concern, GMS could just nerf Lucid's HP by a fraction or two. Going on such absurd lengths just so 'we' can be as strongk as KMS players.
  • AznboiEAznboiE
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    edited November 2016
    NovaDragon

    Your suggestion sounds like you came from the private servers.

    It would be weird for my hat to have 3 orange nebulites

    It would be overpowered to have 3 handpicked lines of6% stat. If i had 6 boss nebs...

    Im not sure if they confirmed we arent getting flames. If We had craftable flames and they didnt added scissor counts, i think it would be extremely beneficial to the community in terms of more activities and a stable economy
    Well Nexon could probably slap on a "Unique Equipped Item" code onto it and not allow you to use more than 1 of the same neb type per equip item and that'd fix the issue really easily.

    So:
    No using more than 1 same stat neb per weapon equipment
    You can use two similar nebs like a neb that gives % attack and another that gives +attack, but can't use two % Attack or +Attack nebs together.
    You can use two boss nebulites by putting 1 on a weapon and the other on a secondary or Emblem.
  • IvangoldIvangold
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    edited November 2016
    @DepressedAran and @Neospector
    Well, i guess nerfing is the easy way, still think revamping the nebulite system would be nice, you should be able to fuse up to B rank or A without cupons, make them buyable from the reward shop, and nebulite difusers as well or just make like Souls where you just put ''over'' the old soul you had.

    Also there should be a drop increase, since normal players hardly get it, i don't know how it concerns hackers, but the low drop rate make it rarer every day, and less and less A nebs will be made, there isn't a good demand of nebulites today.

    I still think there should keep the D rank Nebs(i know this sounds unfair), just like rare potentials and the bad stats in flames, it add a RNG and something you need work hard to get, increasing the drop rate could be good; i think more than 3nebs in one eqp would be too much... there should also be a limit of one time of neb in one equip if that were to be added.

    So about the shop, there should be a box that give you a random nebulite of a certain rank +, obviously S wouldn't have one(let's be honest, nexon wouldn't put a box that get everytime S rank nebs, i don't know if they would put A ones), and if one coin is easy to getm 25 coins seens a bit low(if you need to disassemble one neb to get one coin, there still would be a lack of nebulites to fuse or disassemble).

    The cube could be similar to the bonus potential one, you can ''tier up'' a nebulite easyer than potential, yet getting something good would take a bit more, i think they should at least remove the lines of acc, avoibility, magic defence(with 5job removing those from pots and bonus pots).
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
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    edited November 2016
    Neospector

    AKradian
    AKradian said:



    Which means that the only the rich will get them.
    The same people who are able to prime their gear, cube both normal and bonus potential to legendary and 3 useful lines, and enhance it to 15 stars, will also have 3-5 S-nebs on every single item.
    Meanwhile, the plebes will have no nebs on their gear at all, both because they're rare and because you forgot to include the most important feature: no-cash diffusers.

    Sounds to me like a revamp that makes the strong absurdly stronger (oh yes, do let's have 3 boss S-nebs on weapon and secondary, and five 6% nebs on top and bottom...) while being of no use to the weak, except possibly by selling the nebs they find to those who have the meso to fuse them by the hundreds until something good comes out.
    Weaker players can easily grind Nebulites by killing Galacto-drill. No one does that quest line because they don't consider it worth it, so no one realizes that you can just buy Nebulites from a shop like spell traces.

    Even "strong" players are held back by the rarity of Nebulite boxes from normal field mobs (because they also refuse to kill the drill). Most damage in the game comes from potential and bonus potential, not Nebulites.
    errr.. there's also the fact that the quest to get to that quest often gets bugged for people
  • OdysseyTwoOdysseyTwo
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    edited November 2016
    AznboiE
    AznboiE said:

    NovaDragon

    Your suggestion sounds like you came from the private servers.

    It would be weird for my hat to have 3 orange nebulites

    It would be overpowered to have 3 handpicked lines of6% stat. If i had 6 boss nebs...

    Im not sure if they confirmed we arent getting flames. If We had craftable flames and they didnt added scissor counts, i think it would be extremely beneficial to the community in terms of more activities and a stable economy
    Well Nexon could probably slap on a "Unique Equipped Item" code onto it and not allow you to use more than 1 of the same neb type per equip item and that'd fix the issue really easily.

    So:
    No using more than 1 same stat neb per weapon equipment
    You can use two similar nebs like a neb that gives % attack and another that gives +attack, but can't use two % Attack or +Attack nebs together.
    You can use two boss nebulites by putting 1 on a weapon and the other on a secondary or Emblem.
    Amen.
    Although with the name "Unique Equipped", it would make more sense to have only one copy of an S neb effect active at a time. For example, you can have a +20% Drop Rate neb and a +20% Meso Bonus neb active at the same time, but if you have 2 or more +20% Drop Rate nebs equipped, only one will be active and the others will not work. For effects that have different values, they are mutually exclusive and only the highest will be active.
  • gamechangergamechanger
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    edited November 2016
    ClawStaff
    ClawStaff said:

    Im not saying you don't have valid points, you do (in this post at least), but for a person named gamechanger you sure don't like the game to be changed. (Im not flaming or trolling or anything, just pointing out the irony).
    You should've read some of my threads on the old forums lol

    What I listed here represents only a little of what I want to change in the nebulite system, but the revamp I want goes in a different direction than what Neospector posted, so I tried to not derail his thread.
  • FennekinFennekin
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    edited November 2016
    Fusing B-rank and above nebs should be a lot more expensive than just fiddy thousand lol. Maybe in the 10m range? 50m range?

    Also would rather not multiple nebs per equipment slot. And why would top + bottom = 10 nebs, while overall = 5 nebs? If we go with that system, it'd be nice to give overalls more neb slots in an attempt to balance it out. Or top + buttom fewer slots than overall alone.

    Everything else seems fine agreeable.
  • JorjaxJorjax
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    edited November 2016
    NovaDragon

    Your suggestion sounds like you came from the private servers.

    It would be weird for my hat to have 3 orange nebulites

    It would be overpowered to have 3 handpicked lines of6% stat. If i had 6 boss nebs...

    Im not sure if they confirmed we arent getting flames. If We had craftable flames and they didnt added scissor counts, i think it would be extremely beneficial to the community in terms of more activities and a stable economy
    ^ This...

    To be honest, adding these "easy" route to obtain A/S Rank Nebulites is simply making free-bies 18%-30% gears before even getting into level 150? Talks about end game.. they already hit end-game.

    In fact... I'm sure nobody want to spent 25b each S rank nebulite on market.. especially when there's 10B trade limited, in which, adding more chances to get scammed.

    High chances of getting scammed = less player = Dead Maple.
    Adding easy way to obtain A/S Rank nebulite = Dead Economy.

    Maybe just simply increase the chances of getting A Nebulites through Gachapon (remove all the junks), Events (similar to maplehood), and Exclusive other new contents (no ideas yet)...

    Again.. who would wanted to spent extra 15b-25b each S rank nebulite when A rank nebulite are like 4b-8b through different servers already? <_< Y'all already know how greedy players can be when it come to these new S rank nebulite.. they'll overpriced 2x-3x the amount by simple 2% extra stats.

    Don't get me wrong though, even if I'm geared for end-game, my only concerned is how this will be effecting new players where they will be seeing 50m per lines before even getting level 150+..... (Like Diablo 3... dear lord...)
  • TheHoATheHoA
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    edited November 2016
    I've always wondered why S rank nebs were in the game code, but not actually available.
  • RezerbaRezerba
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    edited November 2016
    Is nerfing the boss actually the easier way? It would mean every end game boss post 5th job would have to be re-balanced just for one region.
    I really don't see that happening for endgame bosses.