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[Suggestion] Tone down Arkarium!!! PLEASE!!!

xNailKaiserxNailKaiser
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edited April 2017 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Arkarium all too often repeatedly spams his one hit kill attack over and over upon reentry and respawning in the area and its very difficult to avoid for classes like Demon Avenger to avoid or even take down this boss, even on Easy Mode.

Even with 5 lives, his one hit kill attack being spammed, burns them up in seconds.

This also is a problem in Normal Mode as well, and trying to complete the Silent Crusade questline is downright impossible.

I'm not saying remove the attack, but at least give Arkarium some level of a Cool Down period on it and maybe a better defined safe spot during the attack animation as well.
JettLuvsU

Comments

  • ArwooArwoo
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    edited April 2017
    Would you say this is an issue for other bosses as well, or just Arkarium?
    I do believe I've seen some frustrations with bosses such as Chaos Zakum in the past or even Normal Zakum.

    This way we can suggest multiple birds with one stone.

    Arwoooo~
    AlexF
  • scholar624scholar624
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    edited April 2017
    Another possible measure would be granting players a small window of immunity upon respawning; similar to resistance class "Spirit of Freedom" link skills (possibly stacking time with?)

    Might also be worth bringing up bosses who relentlessly spam damage reflect or weapon/spell immunity
  • NeospectorNeospector
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    edited April 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    Would you say this is an issue for other bosses as well, or just Arkarium?
    I do believe I've seen some frustrations with bosses such as Chaos Zakum in the past or even Normal Zakum.

    This way we can suggest multiple birds with one stone.

    Arwoooo~

    In my personal opinion, Arkarium should be the focus; he has several mechanics which make him irritating, such as his screen crack (which is unavoidable) and his snake summons (which can't be hit with physical attacks and can heal Arkarium, rendering a solo attempt impossible for many players). It also doesn't help that easy mode doesn't count for a quest clear for "[Arkarium] The Coming Storm".
    Zakum's primary issue has to do with a lack of a safe respawn area; due to latency and how Zakum attacks players, the arms are capable of spawn-killing players.
    Bosses with poor mechanics include mostly older bosses; Empress can spam tornadoes, Shinsoo, and transform in a mostly random pattern, for example. I think most of the older bosses are due for a complete overhaul regardless and there are a lot of ideas floating around about the best way to do that.
    But if we're talking tweaks and fixes, then Arkarium should be the priority; the other bosses can be annoying but survivable, Arkarium is rendered impossible for any non-mage player who doesn't kill him close to immediately.
    JettLuvsU
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited April 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    Would you say this is an issue for other bosses as well, or just Arkarium?
    I do believe I've seen some frustrations with bosses such as Chaos Zakum in the past or even Normal Zakum.

    This way we can suggest multiple birds with one stone.

    Arwoooo~

    I feel that these multiple birds are in multiple trees, and if we try to hit them all we'll end up missing them all.

    In other words: each boss has different issues. Some would be fine if it weren't for GMS latency, some have inherently problematic mechanics, and some have issues that were solved in KMS but were not imported here for whatever reason. And some are just plain bugged (Zakum and Horntail entry has been bugged for many months, for example).

    I think it would be better to keep this thread about Arkarium alone, and maybe open other threads for other bosses.
    JettLuvsU
  • ArwooArwoo
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    edited April 2017
    It does seem that Arkarium has more issues to him with the risk of dying again after reviving just being one of many.
    Thanks for bringing to light these additional issues to this particular boss fight.

    We'll be sure to add these additional issue with the feedback in regards to Arkarium.
    JettLuvsU
  • AznboiEAznboiE
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    edited April 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    It does seem that Arkarium has more issues to him with the risk of dying again after reviving just being one of many.
    Thanks for bringing to light these additional issues to this particular boss fight.

    We'll be sure to add these additional issue with the feedback in regards to Arkarium.

    Might want to add something for Chaos Zakum: The boss doesn't deal touch damage (neither does Normal Zakum, but spawns mobs to compensate after limbs disappear), and is really hard for classes with special trigger skills that only activate when being hit to use those skills because the only hits CZak does is 1hko. So paladin (my main concern), and Hayato cant reduce HP % damage or gain damage when they get hit. Hero can't gain combat orbs from being hit (otherwise they'll die in the process), and Mihile is such a gamble to risk getting 1hko'd for royal guard stacks. I believe Xenon has one, as do DB and Shad with Dark Sight + as well but are minor compared to the latter.
  • RegretfuIlyRegretfuIly
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    edited April 2017
    Aside from the Cygnus boss, I completely agree with the bosses listed here, as each of them have very annoying, outdated gameplay mechanics that make them more frustrating than challenging to kill.

    Although I can't speak for the vast majority of players, I personally haven't had too many issues with Cygnus, aside from the occasional respawn bug in which you can't resurrect after dying.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited April 2017
    Neospector wrote: »
    Arwoo wrote: »
    Would you say this is an issue for other bosses as well, or just Arkarium?
    I do believe I've seen some frustrations with bosses such as Chaos Zakum in the past or even Normal Zakum.

    This way we can suggest multiple birds with one stone.

    Arwoooo~

    In my personal opinion, Arkarium should be the focus; he has several mechanics which make him irritating, such as his screen crack (which is unavoidable) and his snake summons (which can't be hit with physical attacks and can heal Arkarium, rendering a solo attempt impossible for many players). It also doesn't help that easy mode doesn't count for a quest clear for "[Arkarium] The Coming Storm".
    Zakum's primary issue has to do with a lack of a safe respawn area; due to latency and how Zakum attacks players, the arms are capable of spawn-killing players.
    Bosses with poor mechanics include mostly older bosses; Empress can spam tornadoes, Shinsoo, and transform in a mostly random pattern, for example. I think most of the older bosses are due for a complete overhaul regardless and there are a lot of ideas floating around about the best way to do that.
    But if we're talking tweaks and fixes, then Arkarium should be the priority; the other bosses can be annoying but survivable, Arkarium is rendered impossible for any non-mage player who doesn't kill him close to immediately.

    His snake's physical immunities have to be removed to be even doable
  • SorrowSorrow
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    edited April 2017
    Here are a few discrepancies with bossing that I would like looked into:

    1.) In some bosses "Magic Guard" does not take damage as 20% to HP and 80% to MP. Instead, Mage classes are currently taking 100% in HP and 0% to MP while Magic Guard is on. Example: Attacks that have set damage go directly to HP.... this includes crimson queen's breath attack... Lucid's time bomb, etc.... %HP dealing attacks are correct the way they are. But set damage attacks go directly to HP and for mages we have maybe 10,20,30k HP(if even) compared to other classes who can tank Queen's breath with their naturally 3-4x higher hp bar.

    2.) Some bosses like Arkarium, PB, etc. they spawn monsters that ONLY block physical attacks and does not block spells.

    3.) Hard Hilla, since the new status resistance changes it's impossible to survive hilla's cage trap without killing her in 5 seconds or having a skill that has i-frames or using bind.

    4.) Arkarium - Please reduce the damage on Arkarium's fullscreen attack to 90-95%...

    5.) Bosses that make you lose exp when you die... I believe this was a topic that was brought up in the past but I don't think this is 100% taken care of there seems to be a couple bosses that still make you lose EXP.

    6.) Decrease the duration of physical/magic cancel buff on certain bosses. e.g. Horntail's buff that makes all your attacks do 1 dmg... it lasts too long... feels like 30-60sec duration and i don't feel as 30-60seconds of this is necessary it doesnt make the boss any harder it simply wastes more time.
    JettLuvsU
  • ArwooArwoo
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    edited April 2017
    Responses in bold:
    Sorrow wrote: »
    Here are a few discrepancies with bossing that I would like looked into:

    1.) In some bosses "Magic Guard" does not take damage as 20% to HP and 80% to MP. Instead, Mage classes are currently taking 100% in HP and 0% to MP while Magic Guard is on. Example: Attacks that have set damage go directly to HP.... this includes crimson queen's breath attack... Lucid's time bomb, etc.... %HP dealing attacks are correct the way they are. But set damage attacks go directly to HP and for mages we have maybe 10,20,30k HP(if even) compared to other classes who can tank Queen's breath with their naturally 3-4x higher hp bar.

    I believe some attacks in general aren't supposed to have their damage affected by passives or skills that reduce damage. Consistency is a bit off in this area though. For example, I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Magic Guard also doesn't prevent Chaos Zakum from one-shotting you with his slaps. However, there are skills that reduce damage that will actually prevent Czak from one-shotting. We can communicate this though to hear back on the actual intentions.

    2.) Some bosses like Arkarium, PB, etc. they spawn monsters that ONLY block physical attacks and does not block spells.

    Yes, it does appear that physical classes drew the short end of the stick in this area and we'll be sure to provide feedback to the team on this point.

    3.) Hard Hilla, since the new status resistance changes it's impossible to survive hilla's cage trap without killing her in 5 seconds or having a skill that has i-frames or using bind.

    Perhaps the intention was to introduce a boss that requires teamwork? Though the cage takes a large amount of effort to break. We'll be sure to provide this as feedback as well.

    4.) Arkarium - Please reduce the damage on Arkarium's fullscreen attack to 90-95%...

    A fullscreen unavoidable one-shot attack doesn't sound fun.

    5.) Bosses that make you lose exp when you die... I believe this was a topic that was brought up in the past but I don't think this is 100% taken care of there seems to be a couple bosses that still make you lose EXP.

    Could we have a list of existing ones?

    6.) Decrease the duration of physical/magic cancel buff on certain bosses. e.g. Horntail's buff that makes all your attacks do 1 dmg... it lasts too long... feels like 30-60sec duration and i don't feel as 30-60seconds of this is necessary it doesnt make the boss any harder it simply wastes more time.

    Yes, we saw this particular discussion on the MapleStory subreddit and included it into our feedback report.
    JettLuvsU
  • SorrowSorrow
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    edited April 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    Responses in bold:

    1.) I believe some attacks in general aren't supposed to have their damage affected by passives or skills that reduce damage. Consistency is a bit off in this area though. For example, I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Magic Guard also doesn't prevent Chaos Zakum from one-shotting you with his slaps. However, there are skills that reduce damage that will actually prevent Czak from one-shotting. We can communicate this though to hear back on the actual intentions.

    2.) Yes, it does appear that physical classes drew the short end of the stick in this area and we'll be sure to provide feedback to the team on this point.

    3.) Perhaps the intention was to introduce a boss that requires teamwork? Though the cage takes a large amount of effort to break. We'll be sure to provide this as feedback as well.

    4.) A fullscreen unavoidable one-shot attack doesn't sound fun.

    5.) Could we have a list of existing ones?

    6.) Yes, we saw this particular discussion on the MapleStory subreddit and included it into our feedback report.

    1.) I may have explained myself incorrectly here, but there are some inconsistencies with how magic guard functions. Mages have naturally low HP, and in some circumstances for end-game bosses Magic Guard does not convert 85% of the damage to MP. I can agree that for %HP based attacks it is balanced the way it is. But for non-% based attacks to HP, mages are hugely disadvantaged due to having on average 15-25k HP.

    For example, Lucid's 5 second time bomb attack deals let's say 80,000 damage. To reduce this 80,000 to 40,000 the explosion must hit you and another player in the party. To reduce it from 80,000 to 20,000 a minimum of 4 players must be hit by the explosion. The average non-mage class can survive this attack at 40,000-80,000. The average mage class can only survive this attack by exploding on a minimum of 4 players.

    2.) Thank you for this! :)

    3.) Hard Hilla's cage cannot be broken and when the cage timer runs out you die immediately.

    4.) They are not fun :( if the damage can be slightly reduced this would be a great fix!

    5.) Here is a list for now of what I would like to investigate for bosses that cause exp loss:
    Cygnus, Hard Hilla, Gollux, Arkarium, ...

    6.) Thank you !!! :) you are awesome!
  • ArwooArwoo
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    edited April 2017
    I was under the impression you could break Hard Hilla's cage by basic attacking it. Was I misinformed?
    Perhaps this explains why I tend to be the only one who attempts to free my allies...
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited April 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    I was under the impression you could break Hard Hilla's cage by basic attacking it. Was I misinformed?
    Perhaps this explains why I tend to be the only one who attempts to free my allies...

    you can only break it from the outside.
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited April 2017
    You could possibly solve the akarium problem by removing the link skill cap. This would allow players to take the 8 seconds of invincibility upon resurrection that they currently cannot due to link slot limitations.
  • RexaarRexaar
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    edited April 2017
    The main problem with Arkarium is we only have 5 lives, and Arkarium is scripted to use his OHKO screen crack attack when his HP reaches 80%, 60%, 40% and 20%, and freely use it at <20% HP every 60 seconds, so most classes will run out of lives due to something they can't avoid.

    I suggest changing Arkarium screen crack to be 90% damage so it can be survivable by any class and add a potion cool down so it still has a sense of danger while maintaining the scripted screen crack attack at 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% HP mark.

    Either do one of the following to the Arkarium snake minion:
    -Remove the physical damage immunity
    -Make the physical damage immunity go away after 30 seconds after they are summon
    -Limit the amount of minion that can be on screen to 5-8 so they don't reach a critical mass where they heal faster than you can kill them
    -Remove the physical damage immunity but make them have 0% magical defense (they take full damage from magic with 0% ignore defense) and 150% physical defense (they do not take damage from physical damage unless you have at least 34% ignore defense (most classes has on average 30% ignore defense before hyper skills))
    JettLuvsU
  • FennekinFennekin
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    edited April 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    I was under the impression you could break Hard Hilla's cage by basic attacking it. Was I misinformed?
    Perhaps this explains why I tend to be the only one who attempts to free my allies...
    Isn't the cage near-impossible to break free of? Sorta like the Frankenbalrogs, where unless you have a team of quick basic-attackers (i.e. Angelic Buster), you aren't breaking free of the cage lol. They should just make it like the mirrors for CQueen, which can be hit with any attack, and no fixed damage.

    As for your #1, I there are some skills that say they do reduce damage from %hp based attacks, whereas every other damage-reducing skill most likely doesn't work against %hp attacks (not to be confused with 1/1 attacks). I know Angelic Busters have one (Soul Resonance), as do Mihile's I think? I never really tested to see if they work against ohko's though. My assumption was that they affect the ohko's that do 100% of your hp, but probably not against the ones that do millions of damage lol (i.e. CVellum's breath).

  • RexaarRexaar
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    edited April 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    I was under the impression you could break Hard Hilla's cage by basic attacking it. Was I misinformed?
    Perhaps this explains why I tend to be the only one who attempts to free my allies...

    The problem with Hilla cage is that, one person hitting it (without shadow partner or attack line increasing skill) can only do around 20% damage to the cage in 30 seconds, so 5 players hitting the cage can barely break the cage on time and by then Hilla is already healed from 10% to full HP because the cage healing was changed from a 30-40% healing on death to healing 10% HP every second a year ago.

    Also Hilla is actively attacking you while your party member is caged, so Hilla using her OHKO attack prevent you from hitting the cage for 5 seconds (since 5 player can barely kill it on time, this effectively make it impossible) or you die for not dodging it, and also Hilla summoning her magnet altar will also waste 5 seconds.
    JettLuvsU
  • DetrivanceDetrivance
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    edited April 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    3.) Hard Hilla, since the new status resistance changes it's impossible to survive hilla's cage trap without killing her in 5 seconds or having a skill that has i-frames or using bind.

    Perhaps the intention was to introduce a boss that requires teamwork? Though the cage takes a large amount of effort to break. We'll be sure to provide this as feedback as well.
    Arwoo wrote: »
    I was under the impression you could break Hard Hilla's cage by basic attacking it. Was I misinformed?
    Perhaps this explains why I tend to be the only one who attempts to free my allies...

    It has been tested before and the cage needs 5 people basic attacking at max attack speed in order to break it. This is fairly impossible for most classes to even reach such attack speed without buffs that would increase it.

    bumbertyr
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited April 2017
    I read that Arkarium's snakes lost their physical immunity in KMS a long time ago, but ours kept it for some reason. I don't play KMS so I don't know for sure.
  • ManiOhManiOh
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    edited April 2017
    Arka full map its hard to dogge yea but you need to time the short animation and jump far from him but when mobs are spawn that you cant kill and cause a bit lag its eazy to miss the small animation and get killed

    and about hard hila thing aswell teamwork part its totaly misunderstood unless you bind and go full power to smash ( or if you get caged right after enter and get killed ...) its almost impossible and for sure noway to break the cage w alone (2 of you) or so
    also i think arka and hard hila should be counted only when kill like many other boss
    but yea dosnt matter as its eazy to quick "1shot " this days but still sometime on mules or so its fun to enjoy the full run with buddys