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GMS-Raising Star Cap, Rebirth Flames & Neb Revamp?
Comments
* Excuse me for grammar errors.
I want to disagree about Gollux/Sweetwater being good.
It makes no sense that a player can get a best-in-slot equip (Superior Gollux Earrings/Ring) without any gearing/investment but just for repeating the same content for long enough/get carried through it.
However crafting makes sense because it'd make the crafting system actually worth using for anything other than Boss Rush Potions and Meister Cubes/Master Craftsman Cubes, and it would allow players to use equips like Dominator Pendant if they aren't able to defeat content such as difficulty 4 of Gollux.
Commerci is also an RNG wall that you can't do anything about other than just keep repeating the same content for infinitely long.
Transposed Sweetwater equipment is completely untradable after being used and traded once.
If not Commerci, upgrading to gear from higher end bosses (such as Absolute Labs gear from Lotus/Damien; namely hat?) would make sense in GMS.
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About the rest of this topic: (not related to your reply, RisingRain)
Sticking to the current systems of nebs/15 stars rather than flames/higher stars cap is bad. Changing the system would make the gear progression different, and healthier.
You'd actually need to get the gear from Arcane River - i.e. the gloves would be better than Tyrant/SW because they'd give much higher AO stats due to the equip being level 200 and they'd get a massive boost from stars, which makes more sense because the equip is obtained from the current endgame boss, Lucid.
All players at endgame in GMS right now stick to their duped 15 star Tyrant gear that they transpose to SW and pretty much everything looks the same. AO gives a variety to equips. Currently, all endgame equips are just prime scrolled, 15 starred and have 30%+ main potential and a 2L/3L bonus. AO would add another upgrade that pretty much everyone wants because it's a free-to-win addition and it's much harder to roll perfect flame stats on gear, you'll be VERY unlikely to see people with identical gear stats, and that's good.
I don't remember making that reply, so that must have been a while ago.
You get 2 out of the 4 pieces from doing that, yes. I don't think you need a carry to do normal or easy Gollux.
The scaling from Reinforced to Superior Gollux items is not that large. That is a good thing for progression as Hardux is much easier than Hellux. You can stick with Reinforced gear for a while until you want to swap over to Superior. In Reboot you could cube Reinforced gear to pretty good potentials so that you can get the range needed to eventually do Hellux consistently. It wouldn't even be wasted as Reinforced Gollux items can be/are BiS for drop gear. That is gear progression.
Arcane dailies are a perfect example of doing the same content over and over until you level it up. Arcane Symbols are BiS, obviously, and matters a lot more to damage output in Arcane River than the difference between Superior and Reinforced gear. While Superior Gollux gear is hard to get unfunded, Reinforced is not and provides very comparable stat gains. In the regular servers Reinforced isn't worth anything because Hellux is easy - but that also means that you can get pretty decent and comparable Reinforced gear for much cheaper than Superior items as there's almost no buyers for it.
KMS just made it so getting Meister crafting/smithing is worth something. You have to keep up Meister rank and its decay, which means there will be sustained demand for crafting materials if players want to use that 5% critical damage buff or an extra life in difficult endgame bosses. Dominator Pendants are quite difficult to craft, and the scrolling of them requires Protection Scrolls in case the scrolls blow up which is not cheap. In Reboot, the scrolls don't exist, but obtaining the crafting materials is quite difficult in any server. When's the last time Ark dropped a Primal Essence for you, much less 5? Confusion Fragments are also quite rare as well.
Commerci is no more of an RNG wall than farming Arcane Droplets is, or waiting for Ark to drop his Primal Essences / if you're very lucky, his pendant. While there are not deterministic rewards like Arcane Symbols, many endgame Reboot players have SW sets, or are in the process of obtaining them. Transposed SW in Reboot is super endgame anyway, and is not even a factor until at least 10* on pretty much every Tyrant piece minus the glove.
The Arcane set as a whole, even with 25 star cap and flames, is not any stronger than a 15* transposed SW set. A transposed SW set has very comparable raw stat to a flamed 22* Arcane item, assuming the player CSS and primes the slots back after the 14* SW falls to 11 stars or below. Transposed SW set items have higher attack than a 22* Arcane item, and the Arcane set effect is substantially weaker than the SW set effect. 25 stars is problematic because there would have to be a hardcoded exception in the game to disallow the 25 star cap with transposed SW items. I fail to see how that's possible with the current game system since the Superior tag doesn't even transfer when transposing to SW. If such a tag was to be added onto newly transposed SW items after an update, there would be many legacy transposed SW items that would be able to hit 25 stars. 22* transposed 15* Tyrant SW is so much stronger than the full Arcane set at 22* it's not even funny. If that could be fixed though, I don't see much wrong with 25 stars as it's a good meso sink and provides gear comparable (but not superior) to the default 15* Tyrant set. Even if the equivalent Arcane pieces aren't as strong as their Tyrant equivalents, it would provide a significantly larger incentive to switch to an Arcane weapon, hat, and shoulder which is better than could be said now as they are only marginally better than current BiS at endgame.
Flames do add stat variation, but I fail to see how flames in their current state could be ported to GMS as they are in KMS. KMS flames work because there are sufficient materials and high-level crafters around to provide a steady supply of Rainbow/Fierce flames from disassembling boss flames. Rerolling the top end flames was hardly F2P material back when EMS was its separate region, and I fail to see how our current population could create a sustainable market for flames other than making the top-end players even stronger. The vast majority of gear that exists in GMS would only be rerollable with crafted or event flames, while the crafting materials for creating flames would be worth a staggering amount just like it was in EMS. An example of that is in current GMS - only the richest can afford to buy cubic blades and chaos cubic blades to craft cubes, while everyone else is stuck with the few they get from drops. Similarly, in MSEA, flame and cube availability is very closely tied to number of botters because of its low population which is not healthy at all.
If your suggestion is for F2P players to simply wait for mobs to drop some well-flamed items, then that player would not be able to cube. star force or spell trace it until they found a satisfactory one, or then they would waste a lot of resources doing this for multiple iterations of mob dropped gear. Ultimately while it raises the damage of the absolutely destitute players (flames do provide decent stats if you're just trying to level a mule or so), it's at best neutral for mid-funded players if not competitively negative, as the higher-end players would benefit the most from a system where crafting materials for flames are worth an arm and leg. The stat variation/additional RNG from flames would also increase the prices for endgame gear substantially.
You are half correct about the richest being able to afford materials for crafting Eternal Flames, but players won't be "stuck" with crappy additional stats just because they lack crafted flames or flames obtained from events. Powerful Crimson Flames are available in Dojo, Legion shop, Elite Boss rewards, Sudden missions etc. They may not be as good as Eternal Flames, but they are enough to give you a new set of stats.
Assuming we get KMS's flame crafting system, we can expect Unrelenting Flames to drop from Mysterious Herbs, Elite Mobs and be sold as an item Kritia's shop. GMS has Commerci Voyage, so there is a possibility that the there bosses could drop flame materials similar to how they drop cube materials. We don't have many high leveled Accessory Crafters. I hope there will more Accessory Crafters after they implement this system.
Similarly, the materials will either come from unreliable sources like Mysterious Herbs or be controlled by botters with Elite mobs being the predominant source of them, I assume. Kritias I won't mention because there are obviously better use of coins in that shop. Commerci dropping flame materials would be the equivalent of it dropping cubic blades now, which is hardly sufficient for a good steady supply of cubes now.
Commerci is a pretty reliable source for cubic blades. Once you get to Lith Harbour and upgrade your ship you get 12 chances for a blade per character per day. Back in the day (I don't know if they've changed the drop rate since the evan revamp, let me know) I was getting something in the range of 4-7 of each type of blade per character per week. The question is how they'll add the flame materials to the drop table. Will they cut into the drop rate of cubic blades or not? Regardless, it's safe to say they'll be worth at least the same as cubic blades. Whether that'll be the 6/20m that they cost now or something closer to the 25/50m they used to cost will remain to be seen. It won't be economically viable to buy flame materials from other players unless your income can keep up with those costs, and when you're weak there are better things to spend your money on.
This is exactly why we should either get flames (and keep nebs) or replace nebs with flames. Nebs are clearly not fulfilling the role of flames for gms at all.
that's not accurate at all actually.
what happened was KMS released the MEE (miraculous equip enhancement) which gave superior equipment (nova, hellisium, Tyrant) type stat boost to all equipment, they had 1 quest that gave them and also sold them in the CS as well as sold them with packs of superior protections, KMS then realized how OP the MEE was and created the starfoce system along with expanding the cap to 25 for 140+ equips, where after 15 stars you gain similar stat boosts to superior equip stars (they also set limits to superior type equips and equips that had MEE's used on them) they did this to balance out a post-MEE maple.
GMS says they didnt increase the cap because we never got hands on the MEE and thus do not need it (I disagree)
Question for you, why did they increase starforce in every other server besides GMS? These servers never had MEE's either.
I already said I don't agree in the post you quoted, I was giving the reason the GMS team told us through our CM at the time Artasi.
as for the nebulous reason "why?" not sure, but the other services also didnt decide to give 25 stars, the max in any of the other servers is 20 I believe .
you could ask the same question with why GMS only did 1 sale of the pHTR and pSPS and then said that they were not allowed to do another sale of it directly (or at all at the time) while EMS (before the merge) were getting them sold at least once a year.
Actually in terms of Star Force Caps in other servers it goe's as follows:
~ KMS/TMS/CMS = 25 Star Force CAP
~ MapleSEA/EMS Before migration = 20 Star Force CAP
~ GMS/JMS = 15 Star Force CAP.
But due note that all servers including EMS prior to migrating over to gms. Have Flames of Rebirth.
Only GMS Lacks Flames of Rebirth.
TMS and CMS both have damage caps that expand based on equipment, even with starforce they get pretty screwed over by the other things they have to deal with, but you're right, they did get 25 stars, all the other servers aside from KMS and those 2 didn't though. GMS might give us the 20 star limit if they really are thinking about increasing the star limit (and actually act on it unlike EMS reboot) but very little belief they will give 25.
I can get behind a Flames system that isnt about replacing nebs, as once again, that was never officially even stated as the reason why GMS didnt get it. that was a fan conclusion.
I keep bringing this up because the Soul system was once just going to be cut out of GMS like the meso market had been for a while, and like the Flames are currently, because some people on the team "believe it gave too little boost to matter" this was an answer they gave on the "A better maple" servery a few years back (I have the whole thing screenshot and saved) and only got implemented after enough complaining and campaigning happened.
an the reason why we didn't get AO
Yeah, and as a Result AbsoLab and Arcane Umbra gear is worthless there as well, because kms created those sets in mind, of having a 25 star force cap.
it's so sad to see, that other servers don't get to enjoy new sets from killing, the toughest bosses.
doesn't it seem odd, that you have to kill Lotus/Damien/Lucid, but the sets that you can buy from them, and soon the hard mode versions of them would start dropping, is only viable past 15 stars. i mean MEE'S screwed over kms, but 25 star force balanced it out.
and if you like it or not all the content that comes out from kms, is being designed around the fact that they can enhance past 15 stars.
i wish that if we do get a star force cap increase in gms, that it would create a much needed meso sink, and make mesos more valuable.
i pray that it will Somehow happen.
the best thing in my opinion that gms gains from raising the star force cap to 25 and implementing flames of rebirth, is a new meso sink, more equpiment options, and more interesting loot, i just played a server with flames on it, and you put much more thought into your loot, as each and every equip is unique, it gives the looting game a fresh new feeling, and it helps new players a ton.
+if you get lucky you can get some nice Bonus Stats options from the equpis that drop, and being created from emblem ie: empress/chaos root abyss, or bought
ie: AbsoLab/Arcane Umbra.
A good meso sink would be like putting a tax on using the transporter in pantheon. A cheap tax that is easily accessible to all, but on a utility that players will continue to use for their entire playtime. Who knows how many hundreds of thousands of gold has been lost to the waypoints in gw2 but players don't even think twice about using them.
You may argue that it doesn't matter that it's only a one time thing given how expensive it is and the sheer number of equips that need to be starforced for each character. A fair point, I suppose. Players will have to keep investing as long as new equips keep coming out. Also note how the arcane stuff requires level 200 meaning the transfer hammer can't be used. Sneaky Nexon. That high expense is also the very thing that makes it unviable to invest in for poor players. The entire starforce system is weighted in favour of those with money. It's just a few extra days work for players in reboot but not so for regular servers. It's P2W with in-game currency. Even if you disagree about the one-off thing surely you must agree about this clear economic advantage.
Adding higher starforce would only benefit the arcane vs tyrant situation. But as RisingRain pointed out, it may not be enough to overthrow the super end game tyrant -> sweetwater transposition which could also make use of higher starforce. This isn't just a case of GMS lacking something that KMS has, it's also a case of GMS having something that KMS doesn't. You just have to accept that the super ultra power creep gear we get from other versions is likely to be better than anything we get from KMS, even years later.
Reboot was added after the flame/additional option system was implemented. Recently there has been a very controversial change to the progression of Reboot characters.
The problem lies in the fact that, Reboot by design requires sufficient character power to grind and meso farm in the recommended maps (as suggested by the Maple Guide), power which was not fully available to GMS players as they lack the flame/AO system to supplement their stats. The flame/AO system is competitive enough to contend against BOTH spell trace scrolling AND nebulites simultaneously.
Many players have expressed their concern that Reboot progression has been severely nerfed, and the damage gate is simply to high to farm at higher level maps (Such as arcane river) which the game intended you to farm at. In the past, GMS players would seek to overcome these requirements by cubing to high potential grades (21% stat and above) but with the implementation of the NON KMS map meso changes, the time required to reach these potentials and power to fight in appropriate maps has increased dramatically.
I believe it is due time to add Flames/AO to supplement player power at all levels of funding, which softens the blow on players just starting out on Reboot, and provides them with another source of power to actually handle the content that the game recommends.
As for how much AO/flames would add, and how would a newer player actually acquire said flames? Every new equip that is generated as a monster drop has the chance to come with flame stats. These stats are highly variable, but it is not uncommon for a player to play 2 hours a day for 2 weeks to not come across a reasonably good flame such as +60 stat on top of base stats. These stats are multiplied by potentials as well. Furthermore, that 60 stat was a very conservative mention because it is entirely possible to get that +60 stat + 4% all stats and this is more often seen as elite boss bonus stage drops and boss monster drops.
For example, an aquatic letter eye accessory in GMS Reboot when fully enhanced offers 25 all stats (25 primary stat and secondary stat which factor into player power/damage)
Meanwhile, an aquatic letter eye accessory with flames/AO could have an additional 50-60 primary stat (bringing that +25 primary stat to something like +75 or 85). This is one example as to where the early game damage of a GMS reboot player is far less than that of a KMS reboot player. Their equipment offers up 3x the stats in the early game!
We can always argue that gollux and codex stats (boss, ied) allow the mid to end game boss content to be cleared to similar success as KMS, but we must not forget that a big part of the game is the grind, the near endless PVE which takes up the majority of game time. As of current, attempting to grind ONE character to 200 (or further, access the most recent content) from scratch with the penalties in place, will be quite difficult and almost unbearable for players to enter the game. Understandably, it WAS a bug, but it cannot be denied, it was helpful for players to start off and gather a foothold in the game.
The weakness of the character becomes most evident at the Lv 160 to 190 mark (for Reboot) and within the Arcane river (Vanishing Journey for Regular servers AND Reboot) . If a player uses the in game suggested maple guide, they will hit the wall hard. I believe the flames acquired up to this stage can help these players leap over the wall and grind/meso farm all the way up as Nexon intended. Players should not, be spending more time on a farming character than their main, other games have made this mistake in the past and have suffered (Dragons Nest)
There is not better time than now to consider and implement flames into the game. This is damage control, else Reboot will suffer and GMS as a whole will suffer.
*This is in addition to my previous points on normal server progression.
Thanks,
DeathOFKing
-snip-
Thanks,
DeathOFKing[/quote]
I agree with you, i remember playing in EMS before they fused with GMS and some eqps i had really helped due to the flames, a lot of stats that at the star make a LOT of diference, aside that you could hold for other characters you would level up, overall you sayed most of things that flames have in its favor, it can help anyone in any part of the game, (i guess)even getting the CRA pieces of equips can have the flame stats a times.
As DeathOFKing mentioned, the farming level penalty hitting all maps was probably designed so make players not stay behind in low level maps for their mesos and forces players to grind accordingly to their levels to get mesos. Grinding accordingly without the right gear is what is making progressing harder since Reboot mobs have more HP than their non-Reboot counterparts. The extra power provided from flames and boss items with preconfigured stats can help players progress through the tougher mobs for mesos and training in general.