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On (Pre-)Nova Bans, Policy, and Treatment of Users

lodwyvernlodwyvern
Reactions: 1,960
Posts: 34
Member
edited December 2017 in Rants and Raves
Edit: I’m glad to know that someone within Nexon considers this issue to be as serious as a “rant or rave.” Thanks for letting us know you actually care about the issue. Moving threads to lower traffic/leisure sections of the forum is incredibly immature.

Taken from one of the recent maple memos:
After our analysis, we have determined that the recent bans were indeed the correct course of action. These bans were the result of the previously mentioned ongoing improvements that we instill in our methods to detect various activities that violate our Terms of Service. If anyone still feels strongly that they are being banned unjustly, we encourage you to send in a support ticket with as much information as possible so that we can continue to look into your case more closely.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you that this sort of response to a relatively large swath of bans is relatively inconsiderate, disrespectful, and overall unhelpful. This is especially disrespectful in the wake of the Kanna ban fiasco where a very similar claim was made by Nexon only for it to be all but retracted and invalidated when a large amount of the banned Kannas were freed as a large mistake had been made by the autoban system.

Starting about 3 weeks to a month ago, after one of the regular maintenances making "backend changes" players began to disappear from the rankings, apparently due to autoban having its logic tweaked. As of November 27, 2017, just over 3 weeks ago, I was also falsely banned and in the days following learned that more than a few other legitimate players had fallen victim to false bans. Since then, some players have been successfully assisted by support, but more than a few legitimate players still remain blocked. I've personally logged more tickets and had more livechats than any legit user should have to have and still remain blocked. Suggesting that legitimate users seek the help of a support staff that is either incapable of helping them or unwilling to actually investigate their cases more deeply than checking a ban log is inconsiderate. Between players who claim to be hackers boasting about having their accounts unblocked via support and players who are known within the community to be reputable reporting that they remain banned, this situation continues to be a bigger mess than it should be. The fact that support staff can give you a different vague reason that you were banned every time you contact them implies that little to no meaningful investigation occurs on their part. Yes, of course there are opportunistic users who attempt to have their illegitimate accounts freed when legit players get caught up in a mess, but should legitimate users be punished just because software meant to improve the game can't do its job properly?

Nexon, there needs to be more transparency in the banning process. Supposedly there's going to be some sort of policy change coming, through which users will be informed of the actual solid reason of their ban, but who knows when that will actually happen; and does this proposed change actually help users if support will still default to trusting autoban over evidence provided by users? There's also the issue of Nexon's other promises over the course of this year that have yet to be fulfilled; why should anyone believe that this policy change is coming? The legitimate players who still remain banned need to be freed. Support needs more adequate training or better resources to actually be able to help legitimate players if the staff/volunteers are just going to default to telling users to contact support and hope the users eventually shut up. Apparently it's even possible to get blocked from support which further disadvantages legitimate users.

The fact that autoban still has privileges to permanently ban players is frankly a joke, especially given the context of the Kanna bans. The ability to hand out permanent bans should be reserved to actual live GMs who can confirm that actual illegitimate activity is occuring. Autoban only seems to catch the lowest hanging of fruit as well as legitimate players every time its logic is tinkered with. I used to make a point of reporting every hacker I saw, assuming they didn't automatically change channel. Of the hackers/botters that I've reported via the ingame ui and directly to livechat, most still remain on rankings. These users were participating in blatant illegitimate activity like mob vac, hacked pets, no delay on cooldown skills, full map attacking, botting scripts, godmode, etc. It's really telling that complete trust can be put into a system that can't catch illegitimate users who routinely run scripts/hacks for weeks on end on the same maps. In the past I've personally been bullied out of maps by hackers, namely during 2x events between the closing of 360 Arcane force hidden maps and the release of Arcana. The biggest joke of all is that legitimate (and even some paying) users still remain at the mercy of a support staff that seems incapable of helping them. I'm not forgetting about this one, and I truly hope you plan to address the issue in an appropriate manner. Please prove to us that you're actually discussing and investigating the manner. Radio silence and a half-baked paragraph in a memo isn't appropriate or fair to us.


SherriCatoooloooClouclTsundereKyuToymakerpandabunniesimZeeeIts2Sharp4UArcandor_ZhenHeweyand 5 others.

Comments

  • TsundereKyuTsundereKyu
    Reactions: 1,920
    Posts: 115
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Comment for visibility. I sincerely hope something is said or done before the holidays.
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
    Reactions: 5,625
    Posts: 1,213
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I have honestly never had such terrible and unhelpful Customer Service from any other company, it's shameful.
  • SherriSherri
    Reactions: 3,035
    Posts: 306
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Agreed, this needs to be addressed and fixed before the holidays.
  • TsundereKyuTsundereKyu
    Reactions: 1,920
    Posts: 115
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Did they seriously move your thread to rants and raves? I'm pretty sure you put it into General Chat.
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Yea, which is incredibly immature. Good looks doing things without explanation!
  • pandabunniespandabunnies
    Reactions: 1,955
    Posts: 344
    Member
    edited December 2017
    This autoban stuff is seriously scary. I haven't been hit but I feel anxious every time the game lags or it takes longer than usual to start up. My condolences to the falsely banned, I hope you get your accounts back with a sizable compensation for having to deal with this.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,955
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited December 2017
    such a shame this post ended up in a place no one really takes seriously.

    I would say they dont have the GM staff to handle patrols thats why they probably disabled reporting system. They (guessing) probably only have about 2 gms per world and maybe 3 for reboot, which is why I assume they gave auto ban system the power to perm ban players.
    Lilyflower
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Autoban is still acting out of order as of today. A guildie was hit while waiting with some of his friends for invasion.
  • SherriSherri
    Reactions: 3,035
    Posts: 306
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Yeah, they're just gonna ignore us now cuz' that is what it looks like they are trying to do! >:(
  • TsundereKyuTsundereKyu
    Reactions: 1,920
    Posts: 115
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Repulsive to know that more bans are still happening and they’re trying to cover up this issue by pumping out events and 2x events.

    It’s going to be Christmas soon and I highly doubt these pigs are going to do anything anytime soon. I’ve been banned for almost a month now with all my tickets just beinf closed with the same shitty copy and paste response.
  • Arcandor_ZhenArcandor_Zhen
    Reactions: 540
    Posts: 3
    Member, Private Tester
    edited December 2017
    Nexon, we are asking for some degree of understanding here. Please, if it is not too much, treat this matter seriously and help out our fellow maplers. They have devoted much of their time and effort into the game.
  • BenippoBenippo
    Reactions: 620
    Posts: 4
    Member
    edited December 2017
    It saddens me that after 6 months of coming back to this game, I am unable to get any level of detail as to why I am banned. I had to personally investigate my own case to find out that it is "common knowledge" that continuing to train at the same map as a Kanna botter can lead to a ban, even if you were there before them. I can understand being banned for something like abusing their kishin ability in a map, but when I personally have a friend giving me kishin at the same map, I see no benefit to me staying there.
    I doubt I was the only one to be using the 2x prior to the emergency maintenance due to the burning glitch (on my only burning character at the time) to level up a character, and eventually reaching the point of training at Desert of Serenity or Sahel 2. These maps during that 2x session, were absolutely packed with Kanna botters, every single channel frequently changing channels in order to escape GM detection to the point that it makes it untrainable.
    What's worse is when I expect to be able to have a proper investigation regarding the matter, I am told that I am in the wrong without providing any insight on the matter.
  • WimpGMSWimpGMS
    Reactions: 730
    Posts: 8
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Ive been logging a lot of tickets too however they just keep giving the same response and even threatened to close my account since what im doing to them is considered abuse of the ticket system. GMs said I was hacking but ive never used any hacking program nor autohotkey in my life. Im positive that I was falsely banned too. Such a shame that we have to deal with this.
  • SherriSherri
    Reactions: 3,035
    Posts: 306
    Member
    edited December 2017
    It's amazing how they are just going to ignore all of these players. This really should be pushed more onto them because this is unacceptable behavior from a company worth multi-million dollars.

    You know, their customer support is just a copy pasted reply, most likely run by bots too. It's all lies and multiple people have came out and proved it.
  • ZeroBluxZeroBlux
    Reactions: 1,100
    Posts: 80
    Member
    edited December 2017
    i've always wondered, can't nexon be sued?
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,955
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    Member
    edited December 2017
    ZeroBlux wrote: »
    i've always wondered, can't nexon be sued?

    nope, they will just cite their proprietary ToS. It's basically their carte blanche to do as they please. Besides the point that there's no laws about video games that'll supplement the case.
    Lilyflower
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I'm not well versed in legal matters (medical student), however, I believe Nexon's protected in such a case as they own every user's account per their terms of use. Their ownership of user's accounts doesn't excuse them from common decency and regard for (paying) users. Legally they're on the up and up, morally they're absolutely sketchy. I'd also imagine a good legal team is something that Nexon actually would invest in.

    This past month has suggested to me that Nexon holds their users in very low regard. Once the money's out of your wallet they can do anything and treat you in any which way they see fit. Assuming they ever do correct this issue and free unjustly banned players, there is literally nothing stopping this same situation from unfolding again. Nexon has not learned from the Kanna bans and any other instance of false bans, no matter how large or small. As long as autoban exists as it does currently, any time they decide to tinker with its logic, legitimate users are liable to be banned and kept in limbo until Nexon has "discussed and investigated."

    What I find the most funny is that during , at the resolution of, and even after the Kanna bans, it was stated that legitimate players shouldn't have any fear of being falsely banned if they're playing by the rules. This is so blatantly dishonest.
    SherriTsundereKyuCaoMeiPei
  • UltimaxexonUltimaxexon
    Reactions: 300
    Posts: 6
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I think they forgot about us false perm ban player
  • lodwyvernlodwyvern
    Reactions: 1,960
    Posts: 34
    Member
    edited December 2017
    I am aware of 2 further legits who have been autobanned in the past week. Both have received copy paste responses to detailed explanations/offerings of evidence and requesting for actual investigation rather than just checking the ban log.

    Nexon needs to speak up
    BlazingEdge
  • SherriSherri
    Reactions: 3,035
    Posts: 306
    Member
    edited December 2017
    Wow, what a surprise! They are still ignoring everyone during Christmas! Jesus this is starting to get me angry!
    This whole issue should of never happened. It's amazing how cruel a company can be.
    I hate capitalism.
This discussion has been closed.