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GMS-Raising Star Cap, Rebirth Flames & Neb Revamp?

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  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
    Reactions: 5,950
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2018
    Reaching 22 star is also a massive meso sink, especially if we keep the gms starforce costs.

    You've surely noticed that an arcane weapon [clean] can't even be purchased for the cap of 30b.... if mesos were actually used for something they would eventually become scarce enough that their value would increase.

    This is a good thing [imo]
    PhantomMasterThiefDaxterbeer
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
    Posts: 980
    Member
    edited May 2018
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    Reaching 22 star is also a massive meso sink, especially if we keep the gms starforce costs.

    You've surely noticed that an arcane weapon [clean] can't even be purchased for the cap of 30b.... if mesos were actually used for something they would eventually become scarce enough that their value would increase.

    This is a good thing [imo]

    I like the 22 stars idea, except for one thing: I need to do more thinking about what is BiS for myself :P. I might go to Dreamy Belt, go Superior Gollux Belt or stay tyrant with 22 star hitting things. Well, there is mix and match for other things such as changing from gollux earring to meister and using a meister shoulder, using scarlet shoulder (assuming it's the only flammable shoulder) or use Arcane shoulder.

    I am excited for stars, but I am mostly overwhelmed by the recalculating but in a good way.



  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
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    edited June 2018
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    Maple_180515_033136.jpg

    Arcane vs Sweetwater Tyrants

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    Rwy058P.png



    maplestory-2014-12-20-20-45-55-988.jpg?w=593
    This would work nicely in our ring combos. I am hoping the Sengoku accessories quest were repeatable and the Gollux shop restocks its goods since we will be booming things if we get a higher star cap. I also boomed my Kanna ring a long time ago T-T.
  • GoldAdventurerGoldAdventurer
    Reactions: 2,375
    Posts: 231
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2018
    Sounds like that bonus stats and flames of rebirth will replace the existing nebulites, and compensation will be provided for every nebulite obtained and still in inventory...
    From MapleStory Twitch...
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
    Posts: 980
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Attention Flame followers,

    Savageace has announced that changes will be made to items that have Nebulites equipped on them as well as compensation for Nebulites that are in your possession, but not equipped.

    Equipped Nebulite Compensations
    Unused Nebulites Compensations
  • CutyJerryCutyJerry
    Reactions: 525
    Posts: 11
    Member
    edited June 2018
    I think Nebulite Compensations are not as optimal, i think 3-4% stat (STR/DEX/LUK/INT) should get more flames instead of 3, which is same as all the other garbage A nebulites. For example, 4% stat (STR/DEX/LUK/INT) nebs have been always way more expensive than 3% all stat nebs in the market and they are obviously way more expensive other random A nebs so I don't think it is very fair to get only 3 flames for 3-4% stat nebs. I personally have many 4% luk nebs and other stat nebs in the inventory and most of my items have 4% luk nebs equipped. I think it is fair to get maybe 7-8 flames for 3% stat nebs and around 12 nebs for 4% stat nebs rather than just getting 3 which is absurd. Also I think B nebs are getting too much compensation for its value because their worth is way less than 1/3 of other A nebs values. I will appreciate if nexon take actual market value into consideration because many people like me and my friends may lose considerable amount of time and money we put into this game and it sucks to just have them taken away and even considering quitting this game after over 13 years for good because of this.
  • RadiantSightRadiantSight
    Reactions: 825
    Posts: 49
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Much like how Cubic blades and chaos cubic blades drop from Commerci bosses, it would be nice if they added flame materials as potential item drops from Commerci bosses. Nexon missed the fact that Nebulite diffusers don't put your equipment's equipped nebulite back into inventory, they get removed instead. At some cases, getting comepnsated flames to roll for a chance of better stats is better than getting compensated on par or sub-par stats that we will re-roll anyways. Stat compensation is only there so that we start Ark patch halfway down the pit instead of at the bottom of the pit.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
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    edited June 2018

    NOTE: I am using the same parenthesis as Savaceace to denote tiers of Bonus Stat. They are not actual values so don't scream that your 25% Boss Nebulite is being replaced with a measly 4 Attack.


    Well I am glad this thread is more peaceful than the chaos about horrible compensation and stat replacement for Nebulites (I hear a lot of cries from Demon Avengers and I was fearing this would happen.) Bonus Stats HP bonuses are only flat values and numerous Demon Avengers are losing a lot of HP% from the deletion and poor conversions from HP Nebulites.

    A poor compensation were made to our weapons. Our weapons with boss nebulites are not equally balanced as the 25% boss nebulite will be changed Bonus Stats granting Boss%(6), DMG% (6) and ATT (4) based on weapon's value and level while the 20% neb has ATT swapped out for STAT% (3.) If they were to be more reasonable, the compensation for 25% Nebs should had included (5) or (6) while 20% Boss Nebulites should offer at least (4) ATT. The substitution of secondaries with Nebulites is not big enough considering a deduction of 25% or 20% boss is a huge loss.

    Bonus Stat conversions 4% Stat and particular stat Nebs on armors in general were matched fairly well as 4 LUK% will be turned to 4% All stats with Jump and Defense included (Jump and Defense is a weird bonus but I'll take it.) It is a sad loss for those who Nebbed their rings, badges and emblems that cannot be flamed as they potentially lose 32% Stat and have to pray their Eternal Flames give them a powerful result to act and replace the lost Nebs.

    https://strategywiki.org/wiki/MapleStory/Additional_Options_and_Nebulites

    Depending on your armor and weapon levels, the replacement stats will vary as higher leveled equipment. The all stat%, jump, speed, are not dependent on level of equipment. Assuming you are well prepared, you can fix the stats you have with compensation flames and new flames as the raw numbers are dependent on your equipment's level.
    Much like how Cubic blades and chaos cubic blades drop from Commerci bosses, it would be nice if they added flame materials as potential item drops from Commerci bosses. Nexon missed the fact that Nebulite diffusers don't put your equipment's equipped nebulite back into inventory, they get removed instead. At some cases, getting comepnsated flames to roll for a chance of better stats is better than getting compensated on par or sub-par stats that we will re-roll anyways. Stat compensation is only there so that we start Ark patch halfway down the pit instead of at the bottom of the pit.

    If Unrelenting and Forever Unrelenting Flames were added to Commerci's drop table along with Rebirth Fragments, it will speed up the rate flames can be made. Currently in KMS, the only way to find flame materials is by harvesting Mysterious Herbs, trading in Kritias Coins and possibly Elite Mob drops. Assuming flames follow a similar path to the Meister and Master Cubes, they could potentially add the flame materials to Commerci and possibly sneak in whole Powerful or Eternal Flames into bosses like how cubes occasionally drop.

  • GoldAdventurerGoldAdventurer
    Reactions: 2,375
    Posts: 231
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2018
    It's very important for me to say that when "MaxHP (1)", "MaxMP (1)" or "Defense (1)" is written,
    these MaxHP, MaxMP and Defense stats will be added to the equipment depends on the original level requirement of the equipment (not including level reduction).
    For example, for level 140 equipment 420 MaxHP are added as bonus stats per 1 MaxHP bonus stat point. The same level 140 equipment
    that will receive MaxHP (4) will actually finally have 420 x 4 = 1,680 MaxHP from bonus stats (will be marked in green color).
    This is how a lot of existing equipments in Luna world (obtained during EMS service) have their bonus stats today!
  • LShadow3LShadow3
    Reactions: 1,355
    Posts: 40
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2018
    tldr; Great game design if we were to get 25*, very natural, great for all players. Couple of things needs to be sorted out: Transposed SW (Hat, Cape, Boots, Gloves) needs to be analyzed whether they should get 25-star option, Kanna Treasure Ring needs to be restockable/reobtainable in the interest of fairness.

    Calculated different equip sets last month for Reboot, and the equip progression guide after 25 stars. This may help in your discussions on whether or not we should receive 25 stars.

    Reddit Discussion: https://redd.it/8i234u

    Post 25-Star Equip Progression Guide (with different cases, depending on how they want to deal with Transposed SW): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mbmx-z0ZylX7IRwUdVPx7HLbz4c7bLTptvTMsayrjZU/edit?usp=sharing

    Post 25-Star Side-By-Side Equip Setup Stat/ATT Comparison: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BYIC0tf9umX6yUtLjIOQ3BXGhStp28SPIFBAkcbCZvs/edit?usp=sharing

    These apply mainly for Reboot, but these shouldn't vary too much for normal servers either besides some of the insanely p2w rings and stuff.

    Main things to look out for is:

    CRA Top/Bottom endgame forever, because of 2 items being able to get 22*. Very convenient for most players.

    Changes progression flow from CRA -> Abso -> Arcane set, dodging SW/Tyrant combination, which is very nice in terms of game design and accessibility. Even 17* Set (safeguard) is very good for the endgame.

    "Free" 10* Tyrant Glove from 22* Antique Root Glove Transfer Hammer to SW before Arcane Set. Much much easier than current Tyrant glove crap.
    Superior Earrings -> Alien Earrings (Lv180).
    Tyrant Belt -> Superior Belt (with the exception for Xenon)
    Rings:
    21* Superior Ring (Transfer Hammer from Meister)
    17* Reinforced Ring
    22* Meister Ring
    17* Kanna Treasure Ring / Solid Gollux Ring (roughly equal, may prefer Gollux for normal servers for scroll slots. Kanna Treasure should be changed to be obtainable multiple times to be fair for all players)

    Sweetwater Face/Eye Accessories, if they will be allowed to go to 22*, will be extremely easy to get to BiS. Hard boss accessories still technically endgame, but not easily 20*+ out of rarity. Technically would be endgame if it did get to that point.

    The Takeaways and Benefits/Detriments of 25-Stars

    In a sense, endgame players will be replacing 5 items (3 rings, earring, and belt). The Armor items (Hat, Cape, Boot, Gloves, Shoulder) will become pure upgrades, whether you are upgrading from Transposed -> Arcane or upgrading laterally from Tyrants -> 17* Abso Set -> 22* Abso Set.

    It's a huge upgrade, and is actually useful for many many players in all walks of progression. Players will be far less gated by Tyrant-like RNG (22* is not as painful as 12* Tyrant, in both cost and accessibility). Players will have a far more natural progression curve in keeping with boss difficulty, moving from CRA/Hmag -> Lotus/Damien -> Lucid/Will. Keep in mind we chose the BEST case scenarios for the "current" transposed build (12/12/12/12 Tyrants), and the simplest no-risk Absolab build still beat it out. It's amazing.
    PhantomMasterThief
  • SuperJonicSuperJonic
    Reactions: 990
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    edited June 2018
    Why not just let SW set be 22* only then even at transposed? I really don't see any other valid/critical response on why tyrant transposed to sw has to be locked to 15. if cra can be 25, absolab 25, and arcane equip 25, then sw should have its right. Also, why are people on this subject if i don't even see many of them with full sw gear at all? SW by itself is generally weak, its something to keep itself to become stronger. So all in all, SW gets at least 22*, that's it. Nothing else to be added.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
    Posts: 980
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    edited June 2018
    SuperJonic wrote: »
    Why not just let SW set be 22* only then even at transposed? I really don't see any other valid/critical response on why tyrant transposed to sw has to be locked to 15. if cra can be 25, absolab 25, and arcane equip 25, then sw should have its right. Also, why are people on this subject if i don't even see many of them with full sw gear at all? SW by itself is generally weak, its something to keep itself to become stronger. So all in all, SW gets at least 22*, that's it. Nothing else to be added.

    Most likely reason: Stars past 15 enhancements are suppose to act similarly to Tyrants with stars above 5. KMS designed starforce to cover the mistake of release MEEs which made non-superior items gain Tyrant-like stats and bonuses. Tranposed Sweetwater carry over the superior stats gained from the Tyrant before tranposing. If transposed Sweetwater weren't limited to a 15 star cap, the equipment will gain Tyrant stats, AGAIN. To give you a rough idea how destructive Tyranted Sweetwater will be at 22 stars, look at the Sweetwater armor I posted above and add above 100 stat and 70 ATT to each equip listed.

    KMS designed starforce so equipment with 22 stars would have similar to a perfected Tyrant. A 22 star transposed Tyrant is broken since you have Sweetwater's set effect, +100 stat +70 ATT per equip that were "re-superiorized" from stars 16-22. KMS anticipated their players would obtain 80 ATT or even 100 ATT on armors and accessories starred well with starforce on Arcane, Absolab or with the old 15 star Tyrants.

    The change should be made to Tyrants so that their star cap remains when transposed. People who are transposing from Empress, CRA, Ranmaru, other 140 and 150 equips that are not superior or not even transposing shouldn't have their stars limited to 15.
    LShadow3
  • SuperJonicSuperJonic
    Reactions: 990
    Posts: 49
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    SuperJonic wrote: »
    Why not just let SW set be 22* only then even at transposed? I really don't see any other valid/critical response on why tyrant transposed to sw has to be locked to 15. if cra can be 25, absolab 25, and arcane equip 25, then sw should have its right. Also, why are people on this subject if i don't even see many of them with full sw gear at all? SW by itself is generally weak, its something to keep itself to become stronger. So all in all, SW gets at least 22*, that's it. Nothing else to be added.

    Most likely reason: Stars past 15 enhancements are suppose to act similarly to Tyrants with stars above 5. KMS designed starforce to cover the mistake of release MEEs which made non-superior items gain Tyrant-like stats and bonuses. Tranposed Sweetwater carry over the superior stats gained from the Tyrant before tranposing. If transposed Sweetwater weren't limited to a 15 star cap, the equipment will gain Tyrant stats, AGAIN. To give you a rough idea how destructive Tyranted Sweetwater will be at 22 stars, look at the Sweetwater armor I posted above and add above 100 stat and 70 ATT to each equip listed.

    KMS designed starforce so equipment with 22 stars would have similar to a perfected Tyrant. A 22 star transposed Tyrant is broken since you have Sweetwater's set effect, +100 stat +70 ATT per equip that were "re-superiorized" from stars 16-22. KMS anticipated their players would obtain 80 ATT or even 100 ATT on armors and accessories starred well with starforce on Arcane, Absolab or with the old 15 star Tyrants.

    The change should be made to Tyrants so that their star cap remains when transposed. People who are transposing from Empress, CRA, Ranmaru, other 140 and 150 equips that are not superior or not even transposing shouldn't have their stars limited to 15.

    Hmm..... now i see the point of at least putting the tyrant transpose to 15. That way, people won't break the game any further. Btw, how the heck you get that hat to 319 all stats? Looks epic.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
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    edited June 2018
    SuperJonic wrote: »
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    SuperJonic wrote: »
    Why not just let SW set be 22* only then even at transposed? I really don't see any other valid/critical response on why tyrant transposed to sw has to be locked to 15. if cra can be 25, absolab 25, and arcane equip 25, then sw should have its right. Also, why are people on this subject if i don't even see many of them with full sw gear at all? SW by itself is generally weak, its something to keep itself to become stronger. So all in all, SW gets at least 22*, that's it. Nothing else to be added.

    Most likely reason: Stars past 15 enhancements are suppose to act similarly to Tyrants with stars above 5. KMS designed starforce to cover the mistake of release MEEs which made non-superior items gain Tyrant-like stats and bonuses. Tranposed Sweetwater carry over the superior stats gained from the Tyrant before tranposing. If transposed Sweetwater weren't limited to a 15 star cap, the equipment will gain Tyrant stats, AGAIN. To give you a rough idea how destructive Tyranted Sweetwater will be at 22 stars, look at the Sweetwater armor I posted above and add above 100 stat and 70 ATT to each equip listed.

    KMS designed starforce so equipment with 22 stars would have similar to a perfected Tyrant. A 22 star transposed Tyrant is broken since you have Sweetwater's set effect, +100 stat +70 ATT per equip that were "re-superiorized" from stars 16-22. KMS anticipated their players would obtain 80 ATT or even 100 ATT on armors and accessories starred well with starforce on Arcane, Absolab or with the old 15 star Tyrants.

    The change should be made to Tyrants so that their star cap remains when transposed. People who are transposing from Empress, CRA, Ranmaru, other 140 and 150 equips that are not superior or not even transposing shouldn't have their stars limited to 15.

    Hmm..... now i see the point of at least putting the tyrant transpose to 15. That way, people won't break the game any further. Btw, how the heck you get that hat to 319 all stats? Looks epic.

    7d13d9a9630e81cc2e588b102323d5fdPrimed_Aquarius_Crown.JPG
    75335111.jpg

    This crown was scrolled using Prime Scrolls for Armors that offer a stagger 10 all stats. The Aquarius Crown can have up to 24 slots when hammered 2x. Sweetwater Hat has 36 stats clean.
  • SuperJonicSuperJonic
    Reactions: 990
    Posts: 49
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    SuperJonic wrote: »
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    SuperJonic wrote: »
    Why not just let SW set be 22* only then even at transposed? I really don't see any other valid/critical response on why tyrant transposed to sw has to be locked to 15. if cra can be 25, absolab 25, and arcane equip 25, then sw should have its right. Also, why are people on this subject if i don't even see many of them with full sw gear at all? SW by itself is generally weak, its something to keep itself to become stronger. So all in all, SW gets at least 22*, that's it. Nothing else to be added.

    Most likely reason: Stars past 15 enhancements are suppose to act similarly to Tyrants with stars above 5. KMS designed starforce to cover the mistake of release MEEs which made non-superior items gain Tyrant-like stats and bonuses. Tranposed Sweetwater carry over the superior stats gained from the Tyrant before tranposing. If transposed Sweetwater weren't limited to a 15 star cap, the equipment will gain Tyrant stats, AGAIN. To give you a rough idea how destructive Tyranted Sweetwater will be at 22 stars, look at the Sweetwater armor I posted above and add above 100 stat and 70 ATT to each equip listed.

    KMS designed starforce so equipment with 22 stars would have similar to a perfected Tyrant. A 22 star transposed Tyrant is broken since you have Sweetwater's set effect, +100 stat +70 ATT per equip that were "re-superiorized" from stars 16-22. KMS anticipated their players would obtain 80 ATT or even 100 ATT on armors and accessories starred well with starforce on Arcane, Absolab or with the old 15 star Tyrants.

    The change should be made to Tyrants so that their star cap remains when transposed. People who are transposing from Empress, CRA, Ranmaru, other 140 and 150 equips that are not superior or not even transposing shouldn't have their stars limited to 15.

    Hmm..... now i see the point of at least putting the tyrant transpose to 15. That way, people won't break the game any further. Btw, how the heck you get that hat to 319 all stats? Looks epic.

    7d13d9a9630e81cc2e588b102323d5fdPrimed_Aquarius_Crown.JPG
    75335111.jpg

    This crown was scrolled using Prime Scrolls for Armors that offer a stagger 10 all stats. The Aquarius Crown can have up to 24 slots when hammered 2x. Sweetwater Hat has 36 stats clean.

    Is it better to prime scroll it or to use icsog on it? I've been looking this up and i keep seeing mixed up answers.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
    Posts: 980
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Attention Maplers,

    In a day or so, Bonus Stats will be implemented and previously nebbed items that are flammable will be given similar Bonus Stats. Any Nebulites on items that cannot be flamed or any Nebulites in your inventory will be given flames. Use these flames and hope you roll a high tier on your weapons, armors and accessories (and don't forget about your POCKET!)

    Here are some reminders for you guys wondering what to do as soon flames and Bonus Stats are available.

    For players who plan on making Eternal Flames, be sure to have a high mastery level in both Accessory Crafting and have someone set up a Scroll Extractor to extract the Rebirth Flames obtained from bosses (these flames are useful on pieces of equipment that don't have a Nebulite or Bonus Stat prior to the update) to Rebirth Fragments. The Scroll Extractor require a Master Craftsmen Alchemist to set one up.
    zA3DyNi.jpg
    fBoDL4l.png
    For all you Accessory Craftsmen, keep your eyes open for Mysterious Herbs and Legendary Mysterious Herbs that drop both Unrelenting Flames and Forever Unrelenting Flames. Be sure to have your Spell Essences and Mana Crystals ready!
    new-veins-and-flowers.png?w=600
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    z3ssJG8.jpg

    If the Unrelenting Flames aren't dropped frequently enough, considering visiting Kritia's shop.
    kritias-shop1.png

    Don't forget, Elite Bosses, Elite Mobs drop flames as well and they are possible rewards from Oz, Monster Collection and Sudden Missions! Powerful Flames (sorry no Eternal Flames) are sold in Legion, Ursu and Dojo! Don't forget our future events and coin shops!

    mr-ponchos-union-coin-shop.png?width=134&height=560
    laos-shop-4.png
    aishas-shop1.png?width=126&height=558

    WISH YOU LUCK ON YOUR BONUS STATS AND HAVE FUN!