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GMS-Raising Star Cap, Rebirth Flames & Neb Revamp?

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  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
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    edited April 2018
    Occire wrote: »
    And 14 Mee have similar if not Better stats then a 24 / 25 Star Forced item ( so actually making sw have MEE stars is even worse then letting it have normal 25 star force upper limit )

    Giving an item MEE stars doesn't mean the item gets MEE stats, an example being when Starforce was released in GMS and several equips were glitched and had blue stars. This didn't change the stats on the items, it just makes it un-starforceable.

    Yea this was brought to my attention by a few people already, well then, Transposed Tyrants Sweetwater should Definitely have Blue Stars AKA MEE Stars! ( but Regular and Non-Tyrants transposed sweetwater should have an Upper limit of 25 Stars )
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited April 2018
    Anyway, it may be better (if they want to nerf sw transpose and give us >15 star) to simply flag tyrant transpose somehow as being capped at 15.

    How they'd do that exactly who knows but we seem to agree on the premise.
    PhantomMasterThief
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited April 2018
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    Anyway, it may be better (if they want to nerf sw transpose and give us >15 star) to simply flag tyrant transpose somehow as being capped at 15.

    How they'd do that exactly who knows but we seem to agree on the premise.

    It would be easier to cap Tyrants and Sweetwater tranposed from Tyrant at 15 stars. Labeling stars obtained on Tyrants or tranposed Tyrants as blue stars would make them unable to be regular starforced (Blue Stars= Can't starforce, not MEE'ed.)

    Assuming Sweetwater Tyrant stars were Blue, a 12 star Tyrant would become 11 once it becomes Sweetwater with no way of starfocing due to blue stars being unable to starforce. Sweetwater should have access to the 25 star cap assuming you used something other than a Tyrant as a material (Ranmaru, Empress, those new 150 gloves and boot from Magnus and Root Abyss shop which I cannot remember the name of as well as the Dimension Gloves) or just enhanced as a regular item without transposing.
  • ManiOhManiOh
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    edited May 2018
    for those that are not on discord
    50OjUS2.jpg
    also we might lose nebs
    qpXv7ip.jpg


    PhantomMasterThief
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited May 2018
    both of these sound fine to me.

    now grab some popcorn while terrorstreak freaks out
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited May 2018
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    both of these sound fine to me.

    now grab some popcorn while terrorstreak freaks out

    Let's not bully Terror, but 25 stars wouldn't make those who went tranposed Tyrants screwed. Even if we get 25 stars, SW made from Tyrants will be better than 22 starred Arcanes (according to math) even if SW tyrants are allowed the absurd 25 star cap. The only real things that could be replaced are rings and maybe the belt. The Tyrant Belt could be replaced with Nightmare Belt or the Superior Gollux Belt or even the Alien Fragment set. With Joker equips, a Zero could do insane combos with a CRA scarlet hat subbing in for both the Arcane Set and CRA set.
  • PeepPeep
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    edited May 2018
    I'd rather they didn't cap transposed SW at 15. It's BIS and costs an absolute fortune to make if you are transposing from tyrants. Usually est cost is around 2k USD total per item depending on rng. They should be worthy of staying BIS or very close to it. I'd much rather they buff the gear in sets such as the Arcane lvl200 set.

    I'm pretty sure most people who have reached this goal don't want to spend anouther 500-600+ dollars per item moving to a new gear set because Nexon decided to cap the star count on a item that should have 25 stars.

    As for nebs. Even if we are getting flames I'd rather they kept them in. There's no solid compensation that I'm confident in Nexon giving that could make up for the huge loss. Most endgame players have 4% nebs and high ballers have 4% all stat on their gear costing an absolute fortune. Does anyone honestly believe they can make up for that?

    This is one of the problems with Maplestory. They've made the game so p2w that any change the involves removing something or changing something in game that costs real life money to make is simply something a lot of people don't want even though some of the changes would be better for the game. If things didn't cost so much and Maple wasn't so p2w perhaps I'd agree on removing nebs etc.
  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
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    edited May 2018
    Peep wrote: »
    I'd rather they didn't cap transposed SW at 15. It's BIS and costs an absolute fortune to make if you are transposing from tyrants. Usually est cost is around 2k USD total per item depending on rng. They should be worthy of staying BIS or very close to it. I'd much rather they buff the gear in sets such as the Arcane lvl200 set.

    I'm pretty sure most people who have reached this goal don't want to spend anouther 500-600+ dollars per item moving to a new gear set because Nexon decided to cap the star count on a item that should have 25 stars.

    As for nebs. Even if we are getting flames I'd rather they kept them in. There's no solid compensation that I'm confident in Nexon giving that could make up for the huge loss. Most endgame players have 4% nebs and high ballers have 4% all stat on their gear costing an absolute fortune. Does anyone honestly believe they can make up for that?

    This is one of the problems with Maplestory. They've made the game so p2w that any change the involves removing something or changing something in game that costs real life money to make is simply something a lot of people don't want even though some of the changes would be better for the game. If things didn't cost so much and Maple wasn't so p2w perhaps I'd agree on removing nebs etc.

    Sigh.....
    Please just don't.....
    25-Stars and Flames are beneficial to everyone F2P And P2W Players.

    Personally if it means that we would get nerfed flames ( Stat level 5 is what MSEA have, and TMS have Stat Level 3, and probably CMS, ThaiMS has Stat Level 7 ) then i'd rather them remove nebs and give us KMS' Stat Level 7 Tier Flames.

    one thing they can do to really make the game Less P2W, is to allow trading of cash items and crafted cubes, crafted flames in the auction house as well as with other players. ( like all the other regions )

    In Every Region Besides GMS, players can freely trade: Pets / Red, Black, Bonus Cubes / Crafted Flames and Crafted Cubes / PSOK / Cash Scrolls / Style Boxes etc,
    in the Auction house or to other players.

    That's the real big change nexon should make, i'm sick of having Account Tradeable only Nodestones because of excuses like: "It's Because of Botters and hackers"
    *I know that you can get fully tradeable Nodestones from nodecrafting, but that's just not enough. ( also with the lower drop rate we get even less nodestones then before, so less node shards in turn making even less crafted nodes.

    This really kills the market, you know how awesome would it be to buy a perm pet or a bonus potential cube from the auction house ?
    or let's say you done cubing and you got 5 cubes left, in current gms you get 3 options:

    1. Cube something else and hope for the best
    2. Sell it as a service to someone else
    3. Let it rot in your inventory until it expires

    In the other regions ( yes every region besides GMS, i'm talking about KMS, TMS, CMS Etc..., even MSEA which is ran by Asia Soft which Many Sea players keep saying they are an even worse company )

    Players have 5 Options:

    1. Cube something else and hope for the best
    2. Sell it as a service to someone else
    3. Sell it in the auction house for mesos
    4. trade it to another player for meso or service
    5. Let it rot in your inventory until it expires

    *Note: That in order for a Cash or NX item to be fully tradeable to either; another player, or to sell in the auction house, the item Must be bought with NX-Only Cash items bought with Maple Points, or Reward Points ( if we get the option to use 100% Reward Points on certain Cash Items like in other regions )
    are Not Tradeable at all.

    So someone still has to pay NX for the item ( but that someone has the choice to either, use it, or sell it )

    And obviously the item must not be used ( can't trade perm nx after you wear it ), or a cash coupon after you used it.

    *I don't know how would GMS' NX-Prepaid and NX-Credit Unique System would work with that however, ( GMS is the only region with NX credit and Prepaid, other regions only have 4 options; Cash ( NX ), Maple Points, 30% Reward Points Discount, Pay with 100% Reward Points ( for certain items like pets and cash clothes )

    PS. Forgot to mention that in other regions, elite mobs and bosses can drop reward point tokens
    ( that give somewhere between 50 - 80, and can be used up to 5 times per day )

    Now i know it's a small thing but... having played kms as low-level player i was Level 30, and got 60 Reward point token by defeating a tough elite mob or monster, however you want to call it, just... felt.... Incredibly Rewarding, and just that little thing made me want to continue playing, it's like the game said: "Well Done for clearing this hard content, here's a reward for your efforts"

    it's this little things that keep the players coming back for more :)
  • PeepPeep
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    edited May 2018
    I was talking about this earlier with a friend and he mentioned that we'd probably get nerfed flames if we kept nebs. Of course if it came down to it I'd prefer flames for sure but I don't see why there's a reason we can't have both without having our flames nerfed. GMS is already OP with the gollux set and SW. Nebs are minor compared to that.

    He also mentioned that reboot have a neb problem. They can only get them from boxes and fuse them (correct me if I'm wrong). Removing nebs to replace it with a better system (aka flames) makes sense in this case. However the fix for that neb problem is pretty simple.

    1. Buff the drop rate on neb boxes.
    2. Remove fusion tickets and allow players to fuse up to A grade.
    3. Remove D rank nebs.

    This should have been done ages ago but wasn't. This should sort out the supply problem and make nebs more accessible. Of course they'd need to improve fusing % also.

    Catooolooo
  • ManiOhManiOh
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    edited May 2018
    Peep wrote: »
    I'd rather they didn't cap transposed SW at 15. It's BIS and costs an absolute fortune to make if you are transposing from tyrants. Usually est cost is around 2k USD total per item depending on rng. They should be worthy of staying BIS or very close to it. I'd much rather they buff the gear in sets such as the Arcane lvl200 set.

    I'm pretty sure most people who have reached this goal don't want to spend anouther 500-600+ dollars per item moving to a new gear set because Nexon decided to cap the star count on a item that should have 25 stars.

    As for nebs. Even if we are getting flames I'd rather they kept them in. There's no solid compensation that I'm confident in Nexon giving that could make up for the huge loss. Most endgame players have 4% nebs and high ballers have 4% all stat on their gear costing an absolute fortune. Does anyone honestly believe they can make up for that?

    This is one of the problems with Maplestory. They've made the game so p2w that any change the involves removing something or changing something in game that costs real life money to make is simply something a lot of people don't want even though some of the changes would be better for the game. If things didn't cost so much and Maple wasn't so p2w perhaps I'd agree on removing nebs etc.

    ye well i think cash for item improve should stop in first place (p2w)
    early when we worked hard to get mirc scrools for our weapons people wasnt complain how prime($)s would ruin our items

    also
    luna allready has flames 15*+ and nebs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    i think we have to wait and see more info what we get for sure
    maybe they just remove nebs from future obtain
    but if they remove nebs from items will be chaos evry lose its bad no matter if i got only nebs boss% and -2sec neb or full 4% nebs
    and no matter if someone paid or got free from events lose its lose noway compesate
  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
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    edited May 2018
    Peep wrote: »
    I was talking about this earlier with a friend and he mentioned that we'd probably get nerfed flames if we kept nebs. Of course if it came down to it I'd prefer flames for sure but I don't see why there's a reason we can't have both without having our flames nerfed. GMS is already OP with the gollux set and SW. Nebs are minor compared to that.

    He also mentioned that reboot have a neb problem. They can only get them from boxes and fuse them (correct me if I'm wrong). Removing nebs to replace it with a better system (aka flames) makes sense in this case. However the fix for that neb problem is pretty simple.

    1. Buff the drop rate on neb boxes.
    2. Remove fusion tickets and allow players to fuse up to A grade.
    3. Remove D rank nebs.

    This should have been done ages ago but wasn't. This should sort out the supply problem and make nebs more accessible. Of course they'd need to improve fusing % also.

    GMS might have more things then KMS ( but kms still are stronger then us with 25 stars and flames )
    even with our Gollux and sweetwater, TMS ( Taiwan ) would still be the most OP server there is,

    the reason for that is TMS has stuff like this:

    1. %Final Damage, %Total Damage, %ATT / M.ATT Familiars
    2. +11 Attack / Magic Attack Accessory and Armor Prime Scrolls ( They are called Black-Star Scrolls i believe )
    3. 6 Hammer Slots ( 1 regular one and another 5 Platinum )
    4. Maple Point star force safeguard from 12 - 22 Stars ( So they got an Easy Risk-Free way to star force from 0 - 22 Stars )
    5. 100% Final Damage Soul Weapon System ( Which is present in JMS and CMS as well, JMS actually is the original one who made that )
    6. Perm Cash Equips with Non-Expiring stats like: +15 - +20 All Stats and +5 - +15 Attack / Magic Attack per equip ( even more broken then KMS' Master Label )
    7. +200 Attack / Magic Attack Overall ( Which has +100 All Stats and +200 ATT / M.ATT Clean, 22 Starred and +16 scrolled ( with 6 hammer slots ),
    it has: +231 All Stats And +420 ATT / M.ATT (depends if the black-star scroll that was used on was a ATT or M.ATT scroll)
    8. 22-Star Transposed Tyrant Sweetwater
    9. %Boss Potential on Pets ( and pet potentials with pet cubes in the cash shop )
    10. 3 Crusader Codex Set can be active at once ( giving %Att or %Final damage )
    11. A Level 160 Heart

    Keep in mind that TMS has the Lowest Tier of Flames ( Tier 3 ), and they are still able to fkn Clear Dojo
    so even if gms got 25 Stars and tier 7 flames, we would be more powerful then KMS and MSEA ( msea has tier 5 flames ), but not then TMS, tms is just broken because of all the stuff that i have mentioned above ( 6 extra scroll slots, 100% Final Damage soul weapon system, +200 att clean overall, that's what we DON'T want in GMS )

    And of course TMS / JMS / CMS, has Gollux Accessories as well.

    Hopefully GMS would get 25-Star Force Enhancements ( With Transposed Tyrant sweetwater being capped at 15 Star, but not regular sweetwater, or sweetwater that was transposed by non-tyrant equpis )
    And KMS' Tier 7 Flames, with crafting from events, event shop, monster collection etc... and make them fully tradeable from crafting.

  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited May 2018
    thing is you can get 12 star tyrant as f2p and transpose from 12 if you want.

    The pay2win advantage is really only in stars 13-15.

    Additionally we'd have to question if we really want sweetwater to be bis.
  • LShadow3LShadow3
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    edited May 2018
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    thing is you can get 12 star tyrant as f2p and transpose from 12 if you want.

    The pay2win advantage is really only in stars 13-15.

    Additionally we'd have to question if we really want sweetwater to be bis.

    Below is a comparison for reboot purposes mainly and I believe it is based on 12 star transpose:

    bMqyRhN.png

    If you're going to use someone else's chart without permission, please at least credit them for the work.

    My friend and I worked on this chart (mostly him), and we have our reasons for not posting the chart yet. I've only teased it on stream as a way of giving a general overview, while the details may change depending on the final decision.
  • DarkZettaDarkZetta
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    edited May 2018
    Peep wrote: »
    I was talking about this earlier with a friend and he mentioned that we'd probably get nerfed flames if we kept nebs. Of course if it came down to it I'd prefer flames for sure but I don't see why there's a reason we can't have both without having our flames nerfed. GMS is already OP with the gollux set and SW. Nebs are minor compared to that.

    He also mentioned that reboot have a neb problem. They can only get them from boxes and fuse them (correct me if I'm wrong). Removing nebs to replace it with a better system (aka flames) makes sense in this case. However the fix for that neb problem is pretty simple.

    1. Buff the drop rate on neb boxes.
    2. Remove fusion tickets and allow players to fuse up to A grade.
    3. Remove D rank nebs.

    This should have been done ages ago but wasn't. This should sort out the supply problem and make nebs more accessible. Of course they'd need to improve fusing % also.

    First thing's first, they need to make Neb Boxes actually drop at Arcane River and whatever other places that can't give neb boxes. Buffing the drop rate won't do anything if they don't even drop in the first place.
    They also need to get rid of most, if not all, of the garbage nebs for the system to even be worth using in the long term.
    Catooolooo
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
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    edited May 2018
    DarkZetta wrote: »
    Peep wrote: »
    I was talking about this earlier with a friend and he mentioned that we'd probably get nerfed flames if we kept nebs. Of course if it came down to it I'd prefer flames for sure but I don't see why there's a reason we can't have both without having our flames nerfed. GMS is already OP with the gollux set and SW. Nebs are minor compared to that.

    He also mentioned that reboot have a neb problem. They can only get them from boxes and fuse them (correct me if I'm wrong). Removing nebs to replace it with a better system (aka flames) makes sense in this case. However the fix for that neb problem is pretty simple.

    1. Buff the drop rate on neb boxes.
    2. Remove fusion tickets and allow players to fuse up to A grade.
    3. Remove D rank nebs.

    This should have been done ages ago but wasn't. This should sort out the supply problem and make nebs more accessible. Of course they'd need to improve fusing % also.

    First thing's first, they need to make Neb Boxes actually drop at Arcane River and whatever other places that can't give neb boxes. Buffing the drop rate won't do anything if they don't even drop in the first place.
    They also need to get rid of most, if not all, of the garbage nebs for the system to even be worth using in the long term.

    99% of garbage nebs are from the D rank and really should be removed, the other garb nebs should be fine for fusing as there are less garbo nebs in ranks C to A (would also like if they added S rank)

    I really dont see why Nebs would have to be removed, it just seems like a seriously unnecessary change, like whats next, they gona remove Familiars cause some can give drop rate boost making it "unbalanced" compared to KMS?

    besides it's only as P2W as it is because nexon decides not to make it less p2w. they could've removed the crappy fusion ticket from the fusion system system ages ago (and made money through the alien cube that they made and sold in the CS when they first released) and could have brought drop rates back to original or at least half of the original drop rate but some one decided against these changes because they benefited the players.

    There is no way they can compensate for what they have done with the neb system and then remove the nebs from people. I dont trust them to compensate well anyway, they can't even compensate players for their terrible banning practices.

    Should they go the route of removing nebs from the game, I would hope that they instead prevent people from obtaining nebs by removing boxes and remove neb socket items and compensate us (with flames hopefully) for unused nebs and that's it. it would be similar to what happened to EMS players post merge, their flames weren't removed from their gear just flame items removed from inventory and compensated in some way iirc.
  • NAVGGNAVGG
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    I haven't read through all the pages here and probably won't but I feel that it would have been better to introduce 25 stars before flames because the growing pains for the change are only going to get worse after we have flames. Yeah, that's greedy of me but I don't want to use good flames on equips with the a potential major equipment shift looming on the horizon. I'd also really like it if we could just click on the star we want to go for and just deduct the whole rng meso cost so that I don't need to spend 10 minutes or whatever starforcing; it's boring!

    Nebs have always been mediocre, but they had the potential to be good. It's just that the loot table for them is bogged down with absolute garbage.

  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited May 2018
    This may be interesting for anyone curious about the stat differences between levels for stars.
    unknown.png

    Does not apply to weapons, and gloves have 7 higher attack (3rd column) from the bonus attack in stars 1-15
  • PeepPeep
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    edited May 2018
    NAVGG wrote: »
    I haven't read through all the pages here and probably won't but I feel that it would have been better to introduce 25 stars before flames because the growing pains for the change are only going to get worse after we have flames. Yeah, that's greedy of me but I don't want to use good flames on equips with the a potential major equipment shift looming on the horizon. I'd also really like it if we could just click on the star we want to go for and just deduct the whole rng meso cost so that I don't need to spend 10 minutes or whatever starforcing; it's boring!

    Nebs have always been mediocre, but they had the potential to be good. It's just that the loot table for them is bogged down with absolute garbage.

    I agree on this actually. I think they should bring stars over first. Though I don't think they should make changes to gear such as SW to begin with. Like I said, it costed a fortune and making gear in this game is incredibly p2w. Anyone who's gone through the whole tyrant to SW transpose probably never wants to gear switch again.

    It would be nice if there was a force enhancement option that allowed you to get 100% for a far higher cost to avoid rng. I feel like they'd have to cap it to a certain star count. Something like 17 as an example.
  • ArgentArgent
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    edited May 2018
    I just had a talk with some of the players in my guild and I think we all are now on board with 20+ stars. Tyrant items, other than the cape, are a PITA to get; getting gloves require the cancerous Kritias invasions. And then once you've finally gotten them you run not only the risk of destroying the item but also losing all the stars. That kind of rng dependant progression just sucks the enjoyment out of the game.

    However, with 25-star Abso, we'd get to lock in every 5 stars and we'd keep the stars we had in case the item is destroyed. No more starforcing a new equip from scratch. This helps players who can't dedicate the ever-increasing amount of time Maple seems to demand to continue progressing.

    P.S.
    Should probably also make dream defender and spirit savior party quests, they make me cry.
  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
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    edited May 2018
    Argent wrote: »
    I just had a talk with some of the players in my guild and I think we all are now on board with 20+ stars. Tyrant items, other than the cape, are a PITA to get; getting gloves require the cancerous Kritias invasions. And then once you've finally gotten them you run not only the risk of destroying the item but also losing all the stars. That kind of rng dependant progression just sucks the enjoyment out of the game.

    However, with 25-star Abso, we'd get to lock in every 5 stars and we'd keep the stars we had in case the item is destroyed. No more starforcing a new equip from scratch. This helps players who can't dedicate the ever-increasing amount of time Maple seems to demand to continue progressing.

    P.S.
    Should probably also make dream defender and spirit savior party quests, they make me cry.

    Even in KMS, Once you boom a Non-Superior Item ( Non-Tyrants ) the Trace will have up to 12 Stars ( Still better then a tyrants 0 Stars )
    It's also technically possible to reach 25 Stars but it's Extremely Hard and Luck Based, Since the Success rate of 24 - > 25 Star is: 1% Success ( up to 5.4%, if you believe that star catch increases the rate by a: 4.5%p additive ) 59.4% Fail, and 39.6% Boom.

    So 22 Star is the ideal place to stop, but 25 Star isn't Impossible, just highly Unrealistic.

    PS. Anyone who has or had 15 Star tyrants won't automatically downgrade in terms of damage ( 15-Star tyrants are still really good even compared to 22-Star AbsoLab ) Double that for Transposed Sweetwater Tyrants ( even with a 15-Star Cap, they are Extremely Powerful )

    it's just that with 25 Stars we'll have more options towards choosing our gear and Not having to be locked down to Tyrants -> Sweetwater.

    it also just makes sense that the Newer and Harder bosses ( Like Lotus, Lucid, Will Etc ) drops gear that is Better then your current one.

    Also Tyrant gear is like 5 - 6 Years old already, gear needs to be updated to keep the game fresh.

    i also would like to point out that giving us a 20-Star Cap would be a band-aid solution, the success to boom ratio will be a lot higher, and the max amount of stars that we could reach ( at least in MSEA would be: 17 - 18 Stars )
    with KMS' 25-Star System, 22 Stars is the realistically max possible amount, though 20 Stars or even 21 is not bad as well.

    The Success rate in MSEA from 16 -> 17 Star is: 20% Success, 60% Fail, and 20% boom.

    Compared to KMS 16 -> 17 Star: 30% Success, 67.9% fail, 2.1% Boom.

    Don't get me wrong you Will Boom a lot of stuff trying to go for 22 Stars, but at least you would have a trace up to 12 Stars, and Checkpoint at: 10 / 15 / 20 Stars, so it is easier and cheaper ( higher star-force levels for arcane will be more expansive ) then tyrants.

    though 15-Star Tyrants are still good ( it's just that starring tyrants in KMS' is expansive is hell, so people just rather do 22-Star AbsoLab ) while we can get Cough Legit 15-Star Tyrants eyes_1f440.png Cough.

    In the end: it is Cheaper to 22-Star AbsoLab rather then 12-Star a Tyrant ( And no more tyrant gloves needed Whoo ! )

    And all of what i wrote here Quadruple that for Reboot, so Both Reboot and Non-Reboot benefits from it.

    Now we just need the Gollux shop to restock or else how can we 22-Star our Gollux Rings and Pendants thinking-face_1f914.png