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Discussion: "Both" Tab in Rankings

Comments

  • Sam016Sam016
    Reactions: 1,480
    Posts: 57
    Member
    edited January 2019
    Sam016 wrote: »
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Sam016 wrote: »
    You remove them because of the vast differences between the servers, rankings just shows how big the difference is.

    Go look at rank 1 in reboot now that ranks just updated and then the level of rank 1 in regular server. Level 255 Vs 253 and the gaps going to get bigger and bigger

    Why outright remove extra information? Why not just stop placing it as the default, make it so players have to pick which ranking they want to see?
    Why is this even an issue? Just set no default and move on. There are much more important things going on right now.
    Kanna, Hackers, Lower population, False Bans, Game Breaking Glitches, just to name a few...

    Not sure if you've been paying attention but they have patched a few hacks out, I agree it is a slow process and would like to see it speed up too.

    Ranking seems to be something they can clearly adjust much more quickly than the other situations or this post wouldn't have been posted, people have been asking for rank splits for years now.

    They can just remove both and let the users pick which they want to see
    It doesn't really matter if they remove it or leave it just the way it is. Reboot players has the potential to reach LV. 275 as first server of GMS regardless if the "Both" tab. is present or not.

    That's not the point though is it?

    The point I'm trying to make is either leave the current one as it is, or have a ranking system like Korean MapleStory. The fact by only removing the "Both" tab won't likely change much anyways.

    It would be nice if they could implement the KMS ranking system but that would probably take an awfully long time. Removing "both" would be the easiest solution
    OjamaNibbo
  • ZomgNitZomgNit
    Reactions: 1,266
    Posts: 19
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    The point I'm trying to make is either leave the current one as it is, or have a ranking system like Korean MapleStory. The fact by only removing the "Both" tab won't likely change much anyways.

    It'll change the ranking dynamic that most people follow. Comparing Reboot and reg servers is meaningless because it's incredibly obvious which one has the advantage in rates. Why would anyone in reg servers want to be compared to people who could match their exp gain while putting in half the time, all other things held constant? It doesn't make any sense and it's demotivating for that to be considered the "gold standard" (or default) ranking method.
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    This is not the issue.
    This is an incredibly small issue that does not directly affect gameplay. It's an extremely small issue that players can ultimately choose to ignore.
    It has no real impact on the game, as it isn't even found within the game itself.
    Meanwhile there are other issues going on that directly impact the game itself, as they are found within the game itself.
    This is not what we should be focusing on right now. It's unlikely Nexon will do anything before someone hits 275 anyway.

    This is by no means an incredibly small issue. Having "Both" as the default ranking option means that that vast majority of the player-base will consider that to be the "main" rankings. And when you put Reboot and reg servers together on the "main" rankings, it makes reg servers look vastly inferior because it isn't possible for them to achieve the same rate of progress.

    Also, the team that works on bug fixes for in game content isnt the same team that updates the UI / graphic design of the Maple webpage. They're two different teams. Fixing this problem doesn't stop them from fixing other problems in game, it isn't mutually exclusive.
    OjamaHHG1Sam016yarin5445
  • MessengesMessenges
    Reactions: 840
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    Member
    edited January 2019
    seperate because they're both two different servers with different people and its unfair people in normal servers cant you xp coupons but reboot is like 2xp all the time
    Sam016
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 6,670
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    edited January 2019
    ZomgNit wrote: »
    Also, the team that works on bug fixes for in game content isnt the same team that updates the UI / graphic design of the Maple webpage. They're two different teams. Fixing this problem doesn't stop them from fixing other problems in game, it isn't mutually exclusive.

    Still not the point. Why is this issue being treated so urgently, but other on-going issues which are much larger do not have official threads yet?
    This is by no means an incredibly small issue. Having "Both" as the default ranking option means that that vast majority of the player-base will consider that to be the "main" rankings. And when you put Reboot and reg servers together on the "main" rankings, it makes reg servers look vastly inferior because it isn't possible for them to achieve the same rate of progress.

    I'm pretty sure the majority of players care more about other issues. Not about which player in the <1% minority will hit 275 first.

    Edit: We can have this thread, sure. But why is this the issue that gets an official thread first?
    Is this really more urgent than Kanna's Kishin/Rework? Is this really more important than false bans?
    Nexon can address this issue if they want. But they need to give us official threads for the other issues which already have countless threads.
    SandyLerrow
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,230
    Posts: 5,994
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Edit: We can have this thread, sure. But why is this the issue that gets an official thread first?
    Is this really more urgent than Kanna's Kishin/Rework? Is this really more important than false bans?
    Nexon can address this issue if they want. But they need to give us official threads for the other issues which already have countless threads.

    Precisely because those issues already have countless threads, they don't need an "official" opinion-gathering thread.
    Nexon is aware of community opinions and suggestions about those topics (and other frequently-raised issues), and SavageAce has even commented on them in his memos.

    On the other hand, this ranking issue is new, and there was little said about it (other than old threads asking for the separation, which seemed satisfied by our getting the "Reboot" and "Non-Reboot" options), so the CM wanted to gather some more feedback quickly.

    Fuhreak
  • ZomgNitZomgNit
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    edited January 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Also, the team that works on bug fixes for in game content isnt the same team that updates the UI / graphic design of the Maple webpage. They're two different teams. Fixing this problem doesn't stop them from fixing other problems in game, it isn't mutually exclusive.

    Still not the point. Why is this issue being treated so urgently, but other on-going issues which are much larger do not have official threads yet?

    Edit: We can have this thread, sure. But why is this the issue that gets an official thread first?
    Is this really more urgent than Kanna's Kishin/Rework? Is this really more important than false bans?
    Nexon can address this issue if they want. But they need to give us official threads for the other issues which already have countless threads.

    Who said those other issues aren't being treated urgently? We've had 3 Maple Memo's about false bans in the last month, and they've restored the majority of the people affected (that I personally know of). We've had 2 regarding the Kishin rework, which is something that we likely won't even get to have input on seeing as every other version of Maplestory that has Kanna's has already gotten the JMS version of Kishin. We've had 0 memos regarding the rankings, the only thing they've had regarding the rankings is this thread.

    I still dont understand why you think them taking our feedback on how to improve the rankings layout means that they have put all other work off to the side until they come to a conclusion. They're obviously still fixing things in game, they're obviously working on other upcoming changes. A company like Nexon has more than just 1 team, they focus on several aspects of development at once, and them taking feedback from the players regarding 1 issue doesn't mean they've abandoned work on everything else.
    Sam016Illuminye
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 3,060
    Posts: 495
    Member
    edited January 2019
    ZomgNit wrote: »
    This is by no means an incredibly small issue. Having "Both" as the default ranking option means that that vast majority of the player-base will consider that to be the "main" rankings. And when you put Reboot and reg servers together on the "main" rankings, it makes reg servers look vastly inferior because it isn't possible for them to achieve the same rate of progress.

    Also, the team that works on bug fixes for in game content isnt the same team that updates the UI / graphic design of the Maple webpage. They're two different teams. Fixing this problem doesn't stop them from fixing other problems in game, it isn't mutually exclusive.

    such big issue
    is that hard to make one extra click to reboot ? or non-reboot tab?
    you can click down and bookmark so you wont ever see both

    GMS non-reboot

    GMS reboot

    EMS reboot

    EMS non-reboot



    AKradian wrote: »
    Precisely because those issues already have countless threads, they don't need an "official" opinion-gathering thread.
    Nexon is aware of community and suggestions about those topics (and other frequently-raised issues), and SavageAce has even commented on them in his memos.

    On the other hand, this ranking issue is new, and there was little said about it (other than old threads asking for the separation, which seemed satisfied by our getting the "Reboot" and "Non-Reboot" options), so the CM wanted to gather some more feedback quickly.

    it's not true
    most of importan one get censored (forced to be made on other sites such as reddit)
    or complently ignore us and make their own decisions of what they think of us
    unless critical issue
    for example false bans and glorious autoban system
    they will ignore all opinions,remove/lock thread send you to ticket system and throw you in hackers bucket
    untill amount of false bans increase and then be like sorry......
    it's not first time with this last memo
    if they actuly heard us they would know it's autoban system fault
    and we want something else like GM's instead of only bugy autoban system that only hackers can avoid

    anyway at end of the day as nexon/stuff wants
    take care !
    FuhreakSandyLerrow
  • yarin5445yarin5445
    Reactions: 530
    Post: 1
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    I believe the "both" tab should be removed as it shouldn't have been there in the first place after introducing "reboot" and "non-reboot" tabs.
    The servers are so different from each other fundamentally that comparing both of them accomplishes nothing but breed more unnecessary toxic behavior between the players that play reboot and the players that play in regular servers.
    Furthermore a lot of regular server players are discouraged from trying to race to the 275 cap because they get compared to players who can make more than double their rates just because they play in a different server so removing the "both" tab would also encourage more players to explore the new content and race with each other in a fair enviorment.
    Sam016ZomgNitHHG1
  • ArrogantBumArrogantBum
    Reactions: 545
    Posts: 4
    Member
    edited January 2019
    I would like to see separate rankings, the exp difference does not compare after level 250 between reboot and non reboot. Apples and Oranges.
    Sam016ZomgNitHHG1
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 6,670
    Posts: 1,254
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    ZomgNit wrote: »
    I still dont understand why you think them taking our feedback on how to improve the rankings layout means that they have put all other work off to the side until they come to a conclusion. They're obviously still fixing things in game, they're obviously working on other upcoming changes. A company like Nexon has more than just 1 team, they focus on several aspects of development at once, and them taking feedback from the players regarding 1 issue doesn't mean they've abandoned work on everything else.

    I do not think that they're putting off all work. It's the fact that Nexon seems to care more about this issue (outside looking in) than other ongoing issues.
    Almost as if Nexon is saying "Hey, look at this instead of the burning trash heap over there." That said,
    AKradian wrote: »
    Precisely because those issues already have countless threads, they don't need an "official" opinion-gathering thread.
    Nexon is aware of community opinions and suggestions about those topics (and other frequently-raised issues), and SavageAce has even commented on them in his memos.

    On the other hand, this ranking issue is new, and there was little said about it (other than old threads asking for the separation, which seemed satisfied by our getting the "Reboot" and "Non-Reboot" options), so the CM wanted to gather some more feedback quickly.
    I believe this post sums up some reasoning nicely. But threads created by users are not the same as one created by a CM.
    It just feels like this issue is being over-represented, where other issues are under-represented.
    The memos are nice, but they're one sided. If a user wants to respond to them, they have to create their own thread, which risks getting locked out.
    Just make more official threads debating issues like this in the future and I'll be a happy camper.
  • KrylonKrylon
    Reactions: 621
    Posts: 5
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    We are only a few days in and more than 90% of top 50 ranks are reboot only. The exp they gain is insane so please split the rankings.
    ZomgNit
  • MerphistMerphist
    Reactions: 790
    Posts: 21
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    I am not a rebooter, and I hear there's a lot of toxicity going on between non-reboot and reboot. Well just hearing the non-reboot's side. I think we should just keep the two ranking separate so there shouldn't be any conflict or else they keep comparing themselves to each other.

    In other words, the Maplers need to find their own way to beat up the Black Mage!
  • ReizDBReizDB
    Reactions: 210
    Post: 1
    Member
    edited January 2019
    Can't you just click NON-REBOOT in the rankings..?
    SandyLerrow
  • chaoscauserchaoscauser
    Reactions: 4,440
    Posts: 596
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    Nice i guess not like i really look at the rankings though
  • RiisyRiisy
    Reactions: 520
    Posts: 2
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    This game isn't all about who's X rank on the leaderboards. So in all fairness, why does it matter if there is a joint leaderboard?
    Also, if I were to look up my own rank, I'd like to see where I am in my server, and then how that compares to the other server. Surely it would motivate you more to try and catch up someone who's ahead of you, even if they play reboot and you're on a regular server...?
    I know for sure, that as and when I grind, I'd look to race a few reboot players around the same rank. And then see whether I can sustain a grinding habbit to progress up the ranks.

    So yeah, I'm in favour of there being a joint ranking leaderboard, just as there is now. There's nothing wrong with how it works at the minute, and people are just whining because they're salty that reboot server players can gain exp faster than regular server players. If you're really that concerned about your non-reboot rank then click the non-reboot button.
    WONDERGUYSandyLerrow
  • HHG1HHG1
    Reactions: 5,966
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    Riisy wrote: »
    This game isn't all about who's X rank on the leaderboards.
    It may not be for you, but it is for the people who are actively racing to get to their goal rank, whatever that may be. Top 5, top 10, top 50, top 300.
    So in all fairness, why does it matter if there is a joint leaderboard?
    In all "fairness", it's not really fair at all. That's why it matters.
    Also, if I were to look up my own rank, I'd like to see where I am in my server, and then how that compares to the other server. Surely it would motivate you more to try and catch up someone who's ahead of you, even if they play reboot and you're on a regular server...?
    I know for sure, that as and when I grind, I'd look to race a few reboot players around the same rank. And then see whether I can sustain a grinding habbit to progress up the ranks.
    You find it motivating to know that no matter how hard you grind, if somebody on a different server grinds even half the amount you do, you still would never be able to pass them? You find it motivating to know that despite starting out at the same time, and spending the same hours grinding, they still get ahead of you by several levels?
    There's nothing wrong with how it works at the minute, and people are just whining because they're salty that reboot server players can gain exp faster than regular server players. If you're really that concerned about your non-reboot rank then click the non-reboot button.
    This split would be to Reboot's "benefit" as well, not just regular servers. Pretty sure a lot of Reboot players dislike how regular server players can cut corners with gear on their mules and do insanely fast 1-200 times. Those ranks may not matter at the end of the day, but ranks are ranks and if they're not gained on equal terms then they should not be on the same ranking page at all.
    It's just a larger topic now because of the 275 race and the obvious gap between the servers now that regular server can't use CS 2x past 250.

    You said it yourself; Reboot server players can gain exp faster than regular server players, and that is why the rankings need to be split to ensure a fair race and accurate ranks. No salt, just facts.
    Sam016yarin5445ZomgNit
  • ElyscentElyscent
    Reactions: 700
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    Member
    edited January 2019
    sllems maS

    Mod Note: Keep on topic.
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 3,060
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    edited January 2019
    motivation ended long ago by other factors (cough $$$$)
    people wont grind ($$$$ frenzy/fs/mvp/ring of torment......) just to get to blackmage that also need's crazy fund ($$$$)
    just to get to "end game"
    250/200 race who was fastest/speedrun when $$ involved ?

    not about ranking even if you choose not to ignore both tab
    let's say they remove both tab how that will make you more motivated ? [maybe remove reboot ? (joke lol)]

    you can block the link eachtime you get send to there ranking for a week
    and use only
    GMS non-reboot
    GMS reboot
    EMS reboot
    EMS non-reboot

    i bet it will be same feel and motivation

    but am fine if that's big issue remove it
    for me it's just pointless discussion that wont bring some improve
    SandyLerrow
  • SandyLerrowSandyLerrow
    Reactions: 550
    Posts: 16
    Member
    edited January 2019
    Riisy wrote: »
    This game isn't all about who's X rank on the leaderboards. So in all fairness, why does it matter if there is a joint leaderboard?
    Also, if I were to look up my own rank, I'd like to see where I am in my server, and then how that compares to the other server. Surely it would motivate you more to try and catch up someone who's ahead of you, even if they play reboot and you're on a regular server...?
    I know for sure, that as and when I grind, I'd look to race a few reboot players around the same rank. And then see whether I can sustain a grinding habbit to progress up the ranks.

    So yeah, I'm in favour of there being a joint ranking leaderboard, just as there is now. There's nothing wrong with how it works at the minute, and people are just whining because they're salty that reboot server players can gain exp faster than regular server players. If you're really that concerned about your non-reboot rank then click the non-reboot button.

    Exactly, Although the gameplay of reboot and regular servers are very different (one is f2p but need time to progress, the other is more p2w meaning literally paying to win the game) besides those elements and others its still the same gameplay. So I'm routing for it to stay or else have a ranking system like KMS.
  • SandyLerrowSandyLerrow
    Reactions: 550
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    Member
    edited January 2019
    ZomgNit wrote: »
    It'll change the ranking dynamic that most people follow. Comparing Reboot and reg servers is meaningless because it's incredibly obvious which one has the advantage in rates. Why would anyone in reg servers want to be compared to people who could match their exp gain while putting in half the time, all other things held constant? It doesn't make any sense and it's demotivating for that to be considered the "gold standard" (or default) ranking method.

    Well... Regular Servers also have their own advantages like, having Frenzy Totems, Good Gear and many others because they can pay to win the game whilst in Reboot, players need to farm for hours/days/weeks/months to even progress.

    This race thing is actually quite interesting.