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Paradigm Shift: Incoming to Nexon!

TerrorStreakTerrorStreak
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edited February 2019 in General Chat
Belgium is only the beginning! Every country in the world is going to follow suite eventually here and disallow loot boxes, I think China will be next to pull that trigger and I couldn't be more excited! Random reward purchases with real life currency is going to be a thing of the past and I think this is going to be a very healthy and needed change for the better for the world's gaming population. Nexon's current CEO is bailing, selling all his shares in Nexon and since I am pretty certain he sees the possible allegations of being held accountable for collecting money from selling loot boxes in the 1st place and face being sued by class action law suites. He is fleeing in the hopes he can avoid losing all his ill gotten gains, while he can. I hope going forward there will be a paradigm shift to promote a more healthy game play experience where you don't need to spend copious amounts of money to be successful in games like Maplestory.

In ending this is exciting news for the future of gamers, the world is closing the doors surely but slowly on these exploitative business practices in the gaming business sectors whether mobile, pc or console. I just hope that companies like Nexon, EA games and the likes find a more altruistic way to persevere through this soon to be trying times of change and hopefully my beloved Maplestory survives through it all... I hope!

Leave your opinions, I am excited to see some responses!
Traveler5577WONDERGUYSlicedTimeHuskyDMKuronekonova

Comments

  • darikdarik
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    edited February 2019
    Well i am happy for the change but this is a free to play game, how do u expect them to make revenue now?
  • TotallyBrokenTotallyBroken
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    edited February 2019
    darik wrote: »
    Well i am happy for the change but this is a free to play game, how do u expect them to make revenue now?

    By selling items directly and not using exploitative gambling mechanics to pump excessive amounts of money from a relative small population of whales? I mean, I'd actually be tempted to buy a few in game goods if I didn't have to rely on a 0.001% chance of getting what I want.
    darikSlicedTimeHuskyDMchaoscauser
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited February 2019
    darik wrote: »
    Well i am happy for the change but this is a free to play game, how do u expect them to make revenue now?

    By selling items directly and not using exploitative gambling mechanics to pump excessive amounts of money from a relative small population of whales? I mean, I'd actually be tempted to buy a few in game goods if I didn't have to rely on a 0.001% chance of getting what I want.

    And how are they going to directly sell that which cubes and circulators give?
  • TotallyBrokenTotallyBroken
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    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    darik wrote: »
    Well i am happy for the change but this is a free to play game, how do u expect them to make revenue now?

    By selling items directly and not using exploitative gambling mechanics to pump excessive amounts of money from a relative small population of whales? I mean, I'd actually be tempted to buy a few in game goods if I didn't have to rely on a 0.001% chance of getting what I want.

    And how are they going to directly sell that which cubes and circulators give?

    That's the part I'd like to know honestly. I feel like I read too much misinformation on the reddit to get it straight, but weren't those somehow exempt from the ruling, or were they dropped also? Being able to buy NX items, or whatever normally pops out of the Gacha for direct cash is one thing, but gear progression is tied so hard to the RNG aspect of cubes that there's no decent way to untangle them. I guess for regular servers, cubes and circs could be put up for mesos like Reboot and Nexon could just sell mesos for cash to give themselves a nice layer of separation? But then, I feel like even the idea of that would be heresy to most people.

    Anyhow, it's not on any of us to decide for Nexon how they un**** the garbage system they've created now that the law is catching on to the industry's BS. Will they come up with a workaround? Will they redo the whole potential system? Will they just shut everything down, omg it's the end of maple, but for real this time guys? Who know, I'll just be watching curiously for what they do when they lose an avenue for exploiting the gambling glitch in human programming.

    All of this assuming any changes spread beyond the likes of Belgium in the first place, anyhow.
    FuhreakdarikSlicedTimeHuskyDM
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited February 2019
    According to the maintenance post, it's cubes and circulators too.

    And yes, mister "demon avengers not being as good in endgame bosses is racism" up there is absolutely getting ahead of himself thinking that this is going to spread, with any kind of speed on top of that, beyond Belgium.
    FuhreakHuskyDM
  • TerrorStreakTerrorStreak
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    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    According to the maintenance post, it's cubes and circulators too.

    And yes, mister "demon avengers not being as good in endgame bosses is racism" up there is absolutely getting ahead of himself thinking that this is going to spread, with any kind of speed on top of that, beyond Belgium.

    Didn't I privately message you telling you to stop commenting on my posts and derailing them and yet here you are harassing me again. Stop it! I am tired of you stalking me on the forums. Now I have to complain to Neospector yet again about this, and while I am at it Live chat support as well. I don't care about your snide comments nor do I want any of your criticisms or opinions for that matter. All you know how to do is attack someone's character. Your quite a nasty person and I don't want you any where near me on these forums. So to say it again don't reply or be any kind of presence in threads that I create. You are unwanted not only by me but probably everyone who might actually be interested in the topics I bring up!
    darik
  • ShokunKaYoShokunKaYo
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    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    darik wrote: »
    Well i am happy for the change but this is a free to play game, how do u expect them to make revenue now?

    By selling items directly and not using exploitative gambling mechanics to pump excessive amounts of money from a relative small population of whales? I mean, I'd actually be tempted to buy a few in game goods if I didn't have to rely on a 0.001% chance of getting what I want.

    And how are they going to directly sell that which cubes and circulators give?

    By getting rid of bs useless potentials whose sole purpose is to unnecessarily saturate potential pools and make it impossible to get good lines without having to pour in crap ton $$$.
    darikSlicedTimeHuskyDM
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    According to the maintenance post, it's cubes and circulators too.

    And yes, mister "demon avengers not being as good in endgame bosses is racism" up there is absolutely getting ahead of himself thinking that this is going to spread, with any kind of speed on top of that, beyond Belgium.

    Didn't I privately message you telling you to stop commenting on my posts and derailing them and yet here you are harassing me again. Stop it! I am tired of you stalking me on the forums. Now I have to complain to Neospector yet again about this, and while I am at it Live chat support as well. I don't care about your snide comments nor do I want any of your criticisms or opinions for that matter. All you know how to do is attack someone's character. Your quite a nasty person and I don't want you any where near me on these forums. So to say it again don't reply or be any kind of presence in threads that I create. You are unwanted not only by me but probably everyone who might actually be interested in the topics I bring up!

    Where do I even begin with this travesty of a post?

    You did privately message me. Which I ignored. Because you do not control when and where I post. You are not a moderator, and as I'm breaking no forum rules outside of apparently offending you with my continued existence, complaining to any of the mods as well as live chat will get you nowhere. And I can tell you from personal experience that crying to support for forum issues will get you told that it's a community issue and that they don't handle those.

    Now then, if you're done derailing your own thread to whine about when and where I post, let's get back to the matter at hand.
    ShokunKaYo wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    darik wrote: »
    Well i am happy for the change but this is a free to play game, how do u expect them to make revenue now?

    By selling items directly and not using exploitative gambling mechanics to pump excessive amounts of money from a relative small population of whales? I mean, I'd actually be tempted to buy a few in game goods if I didn't have to rely on a 0.001% chance of getting what I want.

    And how are they going to directly sell that which cubes and circulators give?

    By getting rid of bs useless potentials whose sole purpose is to unnecessarily saturate potential pools and make it impossible to get good lines without having to pour in crap ton $$$.

    While I would love to see the garbage potentials completely removed, that still does not remove the element of chance, which is the point of contention here.
    darikKuronekonova
  • HousePetHousePet
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    edited February 2019
    TBH I was surprised they still had them when I picked the game back up again last year. Its been pretty obvious that governments are going to soon crackdown on games with gambling boxes, and that games that use them to make money should have been looking at a better way to do things.

    I've never had any interest in playing the box gambling game, so I haven't ever looked into what Nexon had available. Not enough money, too much ability to calculate probabilities...

    The worst type of these boxes is ones where you can pay real money for tradable items. Since tradable items can be traded for RL money, it is effectively RL money gambling. And I expect no game company pays for a gambling license or follows the gambling laws in any country they operate in...
    However all other types of boxes are still microtransactions for a chance of getting something nice. And ignoring 'pay to maybe win' aspects, its still addictive gateway gambling in a game, that siphons RL money from people who might be vulnerable to exploitation, with nothing to protect those people.

    The listing of some of the gambling item chances does go some way to fitting better with many countries laws about gambling though, but most of those countries will still not be happy about seeing gambling in a game. Nexon probably needs to think quick about how they can remove some of the more exploitative aspects, without cutting into their income stream too much. Belgium has set a rather strict precedent here.
    darikHuskyDM
  • HousePetHousePet
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    edited February 2019
    Also: "Fixing an issue where some Wild Hunters were incorrectly flagged for hacking in the Amber Waves event."
    Yikes, I was playing with fire and didn't know! :O
    darik
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited February 2019
    HousePet wrote: »
    TBH I was surprised they still had them when I picked the game back up again last year. Its been pretty obvious that governments are going to soon crackdown on games with gambling boxes, and that games that use them to make money should have been looking at a better way to do things.

    I've never had any interest in playing the box gambling game, so I haven't ever looked into what Nexon had available. Not enough money, too much ability to calculate probabilities...

    The worst type of these boxes is ones where you can pay real money for tradable items. Since tradable items can be traded for RL money, it is effectively RL money gambling. And I expect no game company pays for a gambling license or follows the gambling laws in any country they operate in...
    However all other types of boxes are still microtransactions for a chance of getting something nice. And ignoring 'pay to maybe win' aspects, its still addictive gateway gambling in a game, that siphons RL money from people who might be vulnerable to exploitation, with nothing to protect those people.

    The listing of some of the gambling item chances does go some way to fitting better with many countries laws about gambling though, but most of those countries will still not be happy about seeing gambling in a game. Nexon probably needs to think quick about how they can remove some of the more exploitative aspects, without cutting into their income stream too much. Belgium has set a rather strict precedent here.

    I think the thing with the boxes is having progression things, or things that give you a notable leg up on the competition(MASSIVE side-eye to EA's battlefront 2 abomination), in them. Things like premium surprise style boxes would, generally, not be considered that much of an issue since it's cosmetics that don't further or hinder game progression. Although Overwatch tends to err a bit on the predatory side with its cosmetics-only loot boxes. This seems to be a matter of the issue being pressed so ceaselessly by certain entities that Belgium just decided "okay you know what? NO ONE gets to have them" and here we are.
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited February 2019
    Nexon's current CEO is bailing, selling all his shares in Nexon and since I am pretty certain he sees the possible allegations of being held accountable for collecting money from selling loot boxes in the 1st place and face being sued by class action law suites. He is fleeing in the hopes he can avoid losing all his ill gotten gains, while he can.

    Nexon's CEO isn't selling his shares due to lootbox laws. He was in legal trouble with bribery allegations (in which he was acquitted) and is now being pursued for tax fraud by a civic group. Basically he has been doing a lot of oopsies before the loot box crackdown (apparently he has been to court 30 times as CEO) and therefore wants to put his days at Nexon behind him and start fresh. Any indication that his sale is linked to loot box regulation is either incidental or merely speculation.

    As for the lootbox debate, I am grateful that government bodies have finally come around to putting an end to gambling practices in a game targetted toward kids and young adults. But is there really a more 'altruistic' way of funding the game?
    Fuhreakdarik
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited February 2019
    ShadEight wrote: »
    Nexon's current CEO is bailing, selling all his shares in Nexon and since I am pretty certain he sees the possible allegations of being held accountable for collecting money from selling loot boxes in the 1st place and face being sued by class action law suites. He is fleeing in the hopes he can avoid losing all his ill gotten gains, while he can.

    Nexon's CEO isn't selling his shares due to lootbox laws. He was in legal trouble with bribery allegations (in which he was acquitted) and is now being pursued for tax fraud by a civic group. Basically he has been doing a lot of oopsies before the loot box crackdown (apparently he has been to court 30 times as CEO) and therefore wants to put his days at Nexon behind him and start fresh. Any indication that his sale is linked to loot box regulation is either incidental or merely speculation.

    As for the lootbox debate, I am grateful that government bodies have finally come around to putting an end to gambling practices in a game targetted toward kids and young adults. But is there really a more 'altruistic' way of funding the game?

    Difficult to say, since the entire game was balanced around the cash shop. It's one of the primary reasons why ms2 is having the problems it is. They removed the "pay to win" cash items from the game before it was even out in beta. The problem, now, is that you have a game, and systems, designed around those items being present and available, but they're no longer there. People have been feeling the gear progression grind hard since October/November of last year. They're working on it, but it's going to be a long process.

    I don't see that happening for this game, however, because it's been so long-established with all of the cash items existing and present that to change or walk back anything would lead to nothing but negative outcomes for players.
  • RexaarRexaar
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    edited February 2019
    The simplest solution to preserve paytowin is just give scrolls (or an advanced high tech upgrading system with good UI) that function the same as cube with the cost being the average gambling needed to get them.

    If the following option is used, equipment become sealed with a 14 days trade block if using cash in case the transaction was done using credit card fraud.
    No trade restriction using prepaid.
    You can buy the following scroll a total 3 times per week (there has to be a limit to avoid getting too strong too fast).

    100% Epic Scroll: $30 Enhance equipment to epic tier.
    100% Unique Scroll: $50 Enhance equipment to unique tier. Equipment must be already be epic to use.
    100% Legendary Cube: $80 Enhance equipment to epic tier. Equipment must be already be unique to use.
    First Line Main Stat scroll: $40 Changes the first potential line to a potential that give your % main stat.
    Second/Third Line Main Stat scroll: $80 Changes the second/third potential line of your choice to a potential that give your % main stat. A second scroll scroll is require for prime line.
    First/Second/Third Line Decent skill scroll: $80 Change a line of your choice into a decent skill of your choice. Option depends on the potential rank and equipment type.
    First Line %Attack/%damage/%boss/%IED scroll: $40 Change first line to one of the listed potential.
    Second/Third Line %Attack/%damage/%boss/%IED scroll: $80 Change second/third line of your choice to one of the listed potential. A second scroll scroll is require for prime line.
    Critical Damage first line scroll for glove: $40 Change first line potential of a glove to %critical damage
    Critical Damage second/third line scroll for glove: $100 Change second/third line potential of your choice of a glove to %critical damage
    and you get the idea.
  • TwofishTwofish
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    edited February 2019
    China will be the last area introducing such a rule. Those game CEOs are usually Communist party members, their companies contribute a large number of taxing. The final blow is their unique laws which obstructs foreign companies join in.

    Also, some people there love gambling too because it is a way to show their wealth. Sometimes there even comes a megaphone war, people shout dirty words and count megaphone numbers. The one who can't buy more megaphones loses and apologizes to the whole server. How crazy.
  • DarchesDarches
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    edited February 2019
    I agree with Rexaar; it's not too hard to fix. But his listed prices are higher than average IMO. I mean, you can just roll Occult Cubes for epic potential even cheaper than scrolling (only with equipment transfer).
  • HousePetHousePet
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    edited February 2019
    The Gachapon and Marvel Machine will probably have to go, or at least stop potentially giving out pay to win stuff. The Marvel Machine looks like a slot machine. I seriously have no idea how anyone would think that is a good idea.
    Random Style boxes might be okay, since they are purely cosmetic. (But make sure you can reasonably get nice stuff without randomness.)
    Circulators/Cubes/Stamps are really just paying for items you can get in game, that do the same thing as normal in game items (in general). Those are probably okay for the moment.
    Scrolls are an interesting case, where you pay to not be gambling? TBH, just streamline the system to be less random. Its not needed.
    Meso Pouches will probably have to not have randomised amounts.
    I've probably missed things, because I have no interest in any of the gambling crap from the cash shop anyway. I'd maybe consider buying a random pet, if there wasn't one available I felt like buying, or didn't really care what I got.
    WONDERGUYdarik
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited February 2019
    HousePet wrote: »
    The Gachapon and Marvel Machine will probably have to go, or at least stop potentially giving out pay to win stuff. The Marvel Machine looks like a slot machine. I seriously have no idea how anyone would think that is a good idea.
    Random Style boxes might be okay, since they are purely cosmetic. (But make sure you can reasonably get nice stuff without randomness.)
    Circulators/Cubes/Stamps are really just paying for items you can get in game, that do the same thing as normal in game items (in general). Those are probably okay for the moment.
    Scrolls are an interesting case, where you pay to not be gambling? TBH, just streamline the system to be less random. Its not needed.
    Meso Pouches will probably have to not have randomised amounts.
    I've probably missed things, because I have no interest in any of the gambling crap from the cash shop anyway. I'd maybe consider buying a random pet, if there wasn't one available I felt like buying, or didn't really care what I got.

    Again, the issue is not what you can get from them, but the fact that they're based around the "element of chance". That, as I've said prior, is what the point of contention is.
    darik
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited February 2019
    it was about time looool
    belgium took right laws
    other countrys only got with % expose for now
    am not jealous that nexon are makeing milions with this they can keep do
    they need to change the advertiseing and rules for the game (21/18year+...)
    or just sell cosmetic and fair advert

    nexon got hate for years about this people quiting and still they dont change a thing
    am surprised that nexon keep marvel i bet online casions (that got tight regulations and huge tax) are riping their hairs off
    cus nexon is makeing this so efortless as "game future" directly given to kids



    ps salute the squad that helps us battle
    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-09-17-15-european-gambling-regulators-unite-to-tackle-loot-box-threat
    darik
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    According to the maintenance post, it's cubes and circulators too.

    And yes, mister "demon avengers not being as good in endgame bosses is racism" up there is absolutely getting ahead of himself thinking that this is going to spread, with any kind of speed on top of that, beyond Belgium.

    I don't think it's going anywhere fast, but I think it is something we'll eventually have to face. I think Nexon has plenty of opportunity to nip this in the bud before we end up with another problem the likes of Kanna.
    If Nexon plays their cards right when/if the law eventually changes they can already be 2 steps ahead.
    If they design the new system well enough, even without a law change if players are happier under the new system, it's still a good move.
    A happy market full of paying customers is better than a sour one with a few whales in it.
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    I don't see that happening for this game, however, because it's been so long-established with all of the cash items existing and present that to change or walk back anything would lead to nothing but negative outcomes for players.

    I have to agree with this. I doubt Nexon will even humor the idea unless it becomes a good possibility for Korea's laws to change.
    Given that they already have the law about presenting chance data with RNG items, I'd say there's a good possibility of it being considered.
    But we still can't be sure of how far off that is, or if MapleStory will even still be a thing by the time it happens.

    Major changes have happened in the past before and I wouldn't rule it out completely. But I'm not sure which outcome I think is more likely at this point in time.
    WONDERGUYdarikSlicedTime