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Please keep P2W out of Reboot

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  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    Stargeth wrote: »
    @DarkPassenger: I think you're missing the point that others are trying to make. They are trying to say that any paid advantage, no matter how small, is an unfair advantage in Reboot for those who do not pay up. And that is the sole fundamental reason Reboot was created. That is a fact that is inarguable.

    Now, maybe the competition and marginal value for the BiS does not matter to you personally, but that still does not change the fact that it IS an unfair advantage, and to some people competition means a lot. Especially so in Reboot. You look at the World Records for the Olympics and sometimes the new one is set by a few hundredths of a second, yet people still go crazy and celebrate cause it's a new World Record. This is a similar parallel to how some Maplers feel about records and competition.

    What if Olympic runners could pay a million dollars and get a .1 second head-start? 100 milliseconds might not sound like a lot, but I bet the runners would be willing to pay up for that, and it creates an unfair advantage for anyone who isn't able to pay up. Whether or not you personally would pay up or not or even care about the marginal difference, it means a lot to those runners.

    ---

    As for the original topic, I honestly hope Nexon doesn't bring the medals into Reboot period, but in the very worst case scenario, I hope they make the boxes available for mesos only.

    it's the same idea in other servers, not everyone can buy the nx boxes there so should they just not have them in other servers as well?
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited May 2017
    it's the same idea in other servers, not everyone can buy the nx boxes there so should they just not have them in other servers as well?

    The other servers have many other pay2win elements. One more hardly matters.
    The people who find those intolerable have already quit the game or moved to Reboot (or quit the game and later came back for Reboot).
    Reboot does not have pay2win elements. If you add them there, then the people who find them intolerable will have nowhere else to go.

    Think of it this way: a company makes two candy bars. One that's peanut-free and one that is 10% peanuts. If they add another 1% peanuts to the 10%, it won't really change much for the customers. But if they add 1% peanuts to the peanut-free bar, they will lose all their customers who are allergic to peanuts.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    it's the same idea in other servers, not everyone can buy the nx boxes there so should they just not have them in other servers as well?

    The other servers have many other pay2win elements. One more hardly matters.
    The people who find those intolerable have already quit the game or moved to Reboot (or quit the game and later came back for Reboot).
    Reboot does not have pay2win elements. If you add them there, then the people who find them intolerable will have nowhere else to go.

    Think of it this way: a company makes two candy bars. One that's peanut-free and one that is 10% peanuts. If they add another 1% peanuts to the 10%, it won't really change much for the customers. But if they add 1% peanuts to the peanut-free bar, they will lose all their customers who are allergic to peanuts.

    less than 2% of the population has a peanut allergy.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    it's the same idea in other servers, not everyone can buy the nx boxes there so should they just not have them in other servers as well?

    The other servers have many other pay2win elements. One more hardly matters.
    The people who find those intolerable have already quit the game or moved to Reboot (or quit the game and later came back for Reboot).
    Reboot does not have pay2win elements. If you add them there, then the people who find them intolerable will have nowhere else to go.

    Think of it this way: a company makes two candy bars. One that's peanut-free and one that is 10% peanuts. If they add another 1% peanuts to the 10%, it won't really change much for the customers. But if they add 1% peanuts to the peanut-free bar, they will lose all their customers who are allergic to peanuts.

    with that being said, think of it this way a new peanut product is introduced, the other peanut eating consumers have a new product to spend on. lose 2% of sales but gain +- 98% of sales if the others decide to purchase new product.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    it's the same idea in other servers, not everyone can buy the nx boxes there so should they just not have them in other servers as well?

    The other servers have many other pay2win elements. One more hardly matters.
    The people who find those intolerable have already quit the game or moved to Reboot (or quit the game and later came back for Reboot).
    Reboot does not have pay2win elements. If you add them there, then the people who find them intolerable will have nowhere else to go.

    Think of it this way: a company makes two candy bars. One that's peanut-free and one that is 10% peanuts. If they add another 1% peanuts to the 10%, it won't really change much for the customers. But if they add 1% peanuts to the peanut-free bar, they will lose all their customers who are allergic to peanuts.

    less than 2% of the population has a peanut allergy.

    Yes, well, in the world of Maple, a much bigger percent has pay2win allergy.
    If half your sales are of the peanut-free bar (going by the population of Reboot compared to all the other worlds combined), you do not experiment with adding peanuts to it and seeing whether the customers will continue to buy it or not.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    Im only against this due to the fact people exaggerated the severity of this.

    the only way to change from nx to mesos is if the items are nerfed.

    because like other servers, not everyone has the means to get nx but in reboot, not everyone as the means to farm mesos, cause if it is sold for mesos itd have to cost a good amount for it to be fair enough.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    it's the same idea in other servers, not everyone can buy the nx boxes there so should they just not have them in other servers as well?

    The other servers have many other pay2win elements. One more hardly matters.
    The people who find those intolerable have already quit the game or moved to Reboot (or quit the game and later came back for Reboot).
    Reboot does not have pay2win elements. If you add them there, then the people who find them intolerable will have nowhere else to go.

    Think of it this way: a company makes two candy bars. One that's peanut-free and one that is 10% peanuts. If they add another 1% peanuts to the 10%, it won't really change much for the customers. But if they add 1% peanuts to the peanut-free bar, they will lose all their customers who are allergic to peanuts.

    less than 2% of the population has a peanut allergy.

    Yes, well, in the world of Maple, a much bigger percent has pay2win allergy.
    If half your sales are of the peanut-free bar (going by the population of Reboot compared to all the other worlds combined), you do not experiment with adding peanuts to it and seeing whether the customers will continue to buy it or not.

    they dont make money off of rebooters though, if it is as people say and nexon just cares about sales, rebooters arent a big part of their cash flow. i would speculate that theyre trying to generate money to split or break even or make profit after licensing the rights to use rezero in the update, they do have to pay for the right to use images, characters and anything else from the title.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    it's the same idea in other servers, not everyone can buy the nx boxes there so should they just not have them in other servers as well?

    The other servers have many other pay2win elements. One more hardly matters.
    The people who find those intolerable have already quit the game or moved to Reboot (or quit the game and later came back for Reboot).
    Reboot does not have pay2win elements. If you add them there, then the people who find them intolerable will have nowhere else to go.

    Think of it this way: a company makes two candy bars. One that's peanut-free and one that is 10% peanuts. If they add another 1% peanuts to the 10%, it won't really change much for the customers. But if they add 1% peanuts to the peanut-free bar, they will lose all their customers who are allergic to peanuts.

    less than 2% of the population has a peanut allergy.

    Yes, well, in the world of Maple, a much bigger percent has pay2win allergy.
    If half your sales are of the peanut-free bar (going by the population of Reboot compared to all the other worlds combined), you do not experiment with adding peanuts to it and seeing whether the customers will continue to buy it or not.

    and for me, realistically speaking all this stuff people consider to be pay to win is more like down loadable content, like ive said many times, until theres a clear end point payingtowin the game, to finish the purpose of the game, is when the term pay to win is valid.
  • ContrastContrast
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    edited May 2017
    As a reboot player I fully support this. The whole point of the server is to progress with your own time and grind regardless of the amount of NX spent. I've spent hundreds in reboot on cosmetics and so have many others. It's not like we can't afford the boxes but it's the whole idea behind not having to work for end game items and just paying for it that goes against the concept of the server.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited May 2017
    and for me, realistically speaking all this stuff people consider to be pay to win is more like down loadable content, like ive said many times, until theres a clear end point payingtowin the game, to finish the purpose of the game, is when the term pay to win is valid.

    There you go again. "I don't mind peanuts so I don't see why people object to adding a couple to this other candy bar."
    Some people are allergic to peanuts and some just don't like how they taste. Why can't you accept that?
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    and for me, realistically speaking all this stuff people consider to be pay to win is more like down loadable content, like ive said many times, until theres a clear end point payingtowin the game, to finish the purpose of the game, is when the term pay to win is valid.

    There you go again. "I don't mind peanuts so I don't see why people object to adding a couple to this other candy bar."
    Some people are allergic to peanuts and some just don't like how they taste. Why can't you accept that?

    i entertained it once, but at this point the peanut bit is a false analogy.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    and for me, realistically speaking all this stuff people consider to be pay to win is more like down loadable content, like ive said many times, until theres a clear end point payingtowin the game, to finish the purpose of the game, is when the term pay to win is valid.

    There you go again. "I don't mind peanuts so I don't see why people object to adding a couple to this other candy bar."
    Some people are allergic to peanuts and some just don't like how they taste. Why can't you accept that?

    adding peanuts to a candy bar would be wiser move as a branch product off the brand, example m&ms is the brand but different variety.

    you guys arent saying any solutions, if the items are sold for mesos, would you guys be ok if they nerfed the stats? how much mesos per box would be reasonable to sell for? if theyre op stat items shouldnt they be more than 100mil per box?

    because other than that, have no boxes is the final solution.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    and for me, realistically speaking all this stuff people consider to be pay to win is more like down loadable content, like ive said many times, until theres a clear end point payingtowin the game, to finish the purpose of the game, is when the term pay to win is valid.

    There you go again. "I don't mind peanuts so I don't see why people object to adding a couple to this other candy bar."
    Some people are allergic to peanuts and some just don't like how they taste. Why can't you accept that?

    adding peanuts to a candy bar would be wiser move as a branch product off the brand, example m&ms is the brand but different variety.

    you guys arent saying any solutions, if the items are sold for mesos, would you guys be ok if they nerfed the stats? how much mesos per box would be reasonable to sell for? if theyre op stat items shouldnt they be more than 100mil per box?

    because other than that, have no boxes is the final solution.

    I don't see why they need to be nerfed.
    Reboot is a different world with different rules. For example, Hyper Teleport Rocks are luxury items in normal worlds, but in Reboot everyone has them.
    How would it hurt anyone, in Reboot or elsewhere, if everyone in Reboot, who farmed enough meso, could get the full-power Re:ZERO medal?
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    and for me, realistically speaking all this stuff people consider to be pay to win is more like down loadable content, like ive said many times, until theres a clear end point payingtowin the game, to finish the purpose of the game, is when the term pay to win is valid.

    There you go again. "I don't mind peanuts so I don't see why people object to adding a couple to this other candy bar."
    Some people are allergic to peanuts and some just don't like how they taste. Why can't you accept that?

    adding peanuts to a candy bar would be wiser move as a branch product off the brand, example m&ms is the brand but different variety.

    you guys arent saying any solutions, if the items are sold for mesos, would you guys be ok if they nerfed the stats? how much mesos per box would be reasonable to sell for? if theyre op stat items shouldnt they be more than 100mil per box?

    because other than that, have no boxes is the final solution.

    I don't see why they need to be nerfed.
    Reboot is a different world with different rules. For example, Hyper Teleport Rocks are luxury items in normal worlds, but in Reboot everyone has them.
    How would it hurt anyone, in Reboot or elsewhere, if everyone in Reboot, who farmed enough meso, could get the full-power Re:ZERO medal?

    teleport rocks expire and they dont give clear advantage, and theyre in 3 different types.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    and for me, realistically speaking all this stuff people consider to be pay to win is more like down loadable content, like ive said many times, until theres a clear end point payingtowin the game, to finish the purpose of the game, is when the term pay to win is valid.

    There you go again. "I don't mind peanuts so I don't see why people object to adding a couple to this other candy bar."
    Some people are allergic to peanuts and some just don't like how they taste. Why can't you accept that?

    adding peanuts to a candy bar would be wiser move as a branch product off the brand, example m&ms is the brand but different variety.

    you guys arent saying any solutions, if the items are sold for mesos, would you guys be ok if they nerfed the stats? how much mesos per box would be reasonable to sell for? if theyre op stat items shouldnt they be more than 100mil per box?

    because other than that, have no boxes is the final solution.

    I don't see why they need to be nerfed.
    Reboot is a different world with different rules. For example, Hyper Teleport Rocks are luxury items in normal worlds, but in Reboot everyone has them.
    How would it hurt anyone, in Reboot or elsewhere, if everyone in Reboot, who farmed enough meso, could get the full-power Re:ZERO medal?

    and there we have it, not everyone can or wants to farm mesos for hours on end
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    theres got to be some give and take, they have to pay licensing fees and attorney fees that allowed them to be able to get the rights to use the title of rezero.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    you guys arent saying any solutions, if the items are sold for mesos, would you guys be ok if they nerfed the stats? how much mesos per box would be reasonable to sell for? if theyre op stat items shouldnt they be more than 100mil per box?

    because other than that, have no boxes is the final solution.

    I don't see why they need to be nerfed.
    Reboot is a different world with different rules. For example, Hyper Teleport Rocks are luxury items in normal worlds, but in Reboot everyone has them.
    How would it hurt anyone, in Reboot or elsewhere, if everyone in Reboot, who farmed enough meso, could get the full-power Re:ZERO medal?

    and there we have it, not everyone can or wants to farm mesos for hours on end

    So?
    If people in Reboot don't want to farm mesos for hours on end, they also won't have Legendary 15-star equipment.
    Reboot isn't about giving everyone everything equally, regardless of how they play. It's about working (i.e., grinding meso) for what you want.
  • SorrowSorrow
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    edited May 2017
    Imo, Reboot should have the same cs promotion prices as non-Reboot servers. There are costs in order to deliver content like a Re:Zero crossover. It's unfair for non-Reboot servers to bear the burden of spending $ to acquire these items while Reboot gets this exclusive premium content for mesos only (basically free).
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    Sorrow wrote: »
    Imo, Reboot should have the same cs promotion prices as non-Reboot servers. There are costs in order to deliver content like a Re:Zero crossover. It's unfair for non-Reboot servers to bear the burden of spending $ to acquire these items while Reboot gets this exclusive premium content for mesos only (basically free).

    now thats a sound statement. most logical response ive read today.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    you guys arent saying any solutions, if the items are sold for mesos, would you guys be ok if they nerfed the stats? how much mesos per box would be reasonable to sell for? if theyre op stat items shouldnt they be more than 100mil per box?

    because other than that, have no boxes is the final solution.

    I don't see why they need to be nerfed.
    Reboot is a different world with different rules. For example, Hyper Teleport Rocks are luxury items in normal worlds, but in Reboot everyone has them.
    How would it hurt anyone, in Reboot or elsewhere, if everyone in Reboot, who farmed enough meso, could get the full-power Re:ZERO medal?

    and there we have it, not everyone can or wants to farm mesos for hours on end

    So?
    If people in Reboot don't want to farm mesos for hours on end, they also won't have Legendary 15-star equipment.
    Reboot isn't about giving everyone everything equally, regardless of how they play. It's about working (i.e., grinding meso) for what you want.

    what about those that cant?

    if everyones going to be online farming mesos with a very limited map selection to farm mesos. only those that dont sleep and eat and shower are the ones that will get what they want is what youre saying?