I understand that duping items is against the game rules, but at this time there is no possible way of distinguishing duped items from items that are made legitimately. With a large sum of players spending their hard earned mesos on items to allow them to get stronger, taking these items away and not providing any form of compensation isn't a very fair way of doing things. I fully support punishing people who exploit and dupe items, however this is punishing people who had no way of knowing that their items were duped. Please take this into consideration because this is something that is effecting a large group of people and I hope that you can find a fair way of handling the situation for all players.
There is always a way of knowing an item is duped. In EMS we had a duped legendary Carte Finale. It was recognizable in most cases because 99% of the people just kept the same potentials and just sold it, while the smartest ones recubed it. Some forgot to recube the add pot and made it obvious what they were trying to do. As for cards with both potentials modified, it's mostly up to the seller's reliability. It does not take a long research to find out whether the seller is a long date (phantom, in our case) who surely cubed his own carte before the dupe even started, in the other cases you know you're facing a risk.
The card never got deleted, but if it did (I reported at least 30 copies of it), the same topic going on here would have gone on our old forums aswell.
This really isn't fair. How are we supposed to distinguish whether an item is duped or not? I was not too thrilled when I noticed that my outlaw heart was deleted upon login. No, I did not buy it from a duper or from the black market. I traded my old outlaw heart with another player in-game for different item stats.
I'm usually good at spotting questionable in-game items, because there are usually exact replicas of the same item (i.e. same scrolling, main potential and bonus potential) being sold in different shops in the free market, and they are also shown off by players through item megaphone. However, the outlaw heart that I traded was not questionable at all (to the extent of my knowledge), because it had a fairly distinctive and unique item potentials.
However, since it was deleted, my guess is that the player I traded with bought a duped outlaw heart and cubed over it to get the stat that I desired. So my question is, if players cube over duped items how are we supposed to know whether or not it's duped?
Also, is the market "safe" and clear from most of the duped items now? If Nexon plans on clearing more items in the next few patches, I might stay out of the market for awhile.
And this is the case I was referring to. You in the end, and people like you, are the few who actually fell victims for it with few chances of preventing it - only one would be being aware that there are many duped outlaws around, and you avoid trading outlaws at any condition until something is sorted out. I know talking like this now is easy, but I have been in this situation myself and luckily I stayed out of it safely. You lost an outlaw, I hope for you to never go through all this again.
wow !
buying duped items for $ and holding 'end game' duped items that give advantage on others =/= perm ban.
buying a level 200 weapon from a hacker OR HOLDING IT FOR FEW MIN = perm ban !
double standard, NOT equality of opportunities / punishments.
I will give you this sentence which is a generalization that includes both your sentences:
"buying items that give advantage on others and holding them"
Perm ban or no? To you the answer. Try to be unbiased.
(like ten Blackgate Rings in a row, all with 20% drop rate legendary potential)
To be honest those might even be simply items cubed by botters (check FM7 in Luna if you want), they are just impossible to track down once they have been sold because, just like scrolls, cubes disappear once used, and the item is technically legitimate (it's not, but you get me).
This wouldn't have been an issue if Nexon removed these items WHEN THEY WERE DUPED instead of YEARS later.
When an item has been a duplicate for so long, it becomes hard to tell whether it's duped or not.
And what about the cubes spent on these equips? Thousands of dollars down the drain. Complete bullshit.
Hope you're happy nexon, you've lost a customer.
This means people who held these duped items were able to get advantage out of them for years, and maybe used thousands of cubes on one item rather than constantly upgrading sets and cubing brand new items, each of them a thousand times, losing much more. Basically, choose between abusing an item to hell and then losing it, or cubing your regular items every time and losing each of them once new equips come out. And you even complain for losing the item! Congratulations, you make dupe abusing seem the way to go.
Merching is the most ethical way to get rich, yes, however it requires an understanding of the economy and the prices items go for on the market. Too low and you'll get ripped, too high and no one will buy. There are a few illicit ways to do it as well but I don't think discussing them here would be appropriate lol.
These few illecit ways we think about are, sadly, by far the mostly used by the vast majority of people who then complain about being hacked "but I didn't do anything wrong" or being busted by Nexon "but I didn't do anything wrong", which enforces my final point:
I heard about this. I am returning after almost 5 years and this is still the issue: Punishment slaps the players who unknowingly buy "godly" items w/o knowing they are duped. The only ones who lose out are legitimate players. The duping will continue on as before and hackers/dupers will continue duping and selling to unsuspecting legitimate players. 5 years and nothing has changed. What a shame.
5 years and nothing has changed. You're right. Years of item duping, years of people buying duped items, years of people complaining if anything is done to correct this, years of the same people falling into buying duped items again in a vicious cycle. If anyone had a grain of brain, you may fall for the wrong (getting scammed, unknowingly buying a dupe) once, but once you get a loss of money over it (the scammed amount, the sum wasted on duped items) you learn to stay away from it and you don't do it again. If you perseverate, either you can't learn from experience or you are in bad faith, both cases where you will keep paying for your misactions to feed first-place abusers like a masochist.
He may have been wrong for purchasing the lv 200 weapon but at the same time the hacker who he bought it from is not getting punished. The hacker got and gets to keep his money and will continue hacking for money. Thats the problem with the action nexon took, this sort of action needs to occur before duped items circulates into the fm that way the hackers wont be able to profit but we all know thats close to impossible for nexon since there is just too much.
The hackers already made their money and flooded the market long ago. Duped Prime Scrolls etc. Reacting after 2 years is the wrong freaking move.
Everyone screaming "I lost X and hacker got away with Y" is those people who systematically forget their own experience. You lost something due to a hacker? Next time you don't feed him your money, pretty sure you won't lose it like that again.
The fault for these losses is not Nexon's for deleting duped items, hell it was the correct move. The fault is on the shoulders of all those who kept feeding the illegit market every time it had freshly been taken down. If nobody bought hacked/duped items from now on, there would never possibly be another topic like this. There will be one in the future, I let you figure out why.
No kidding, it isnt just the hackers/dupers fault, it is the desire people have to want things easier so they seek out these items, or buying mesos from the same people. The demand for better stuff now than through earnest work is what exploded the "black market" in maplestory. Nexon is in all its rights to take anything away no matter what the people paid, that Nexon themselves didnt provide.
On the one hand i'm pleased to see action being taken against hackers/hacked items. As a legit player that is something that makes me proud to play the game legit and to be a member of this community. However the actions that have been taken right now will also negatively affect alot of players that did not know their item(s) was duped. I stay away from shops that look like they are suspicious but there's no 100% full proof method to distinguish a duped item.
So i have been thinking of a better way for nexon to solve this problem. Since it took so long for action to be taken and as a company you should not want your innocent players to be punished i think there's a full proof way to prevent unfair actions for the future.
Since you are able to distinguish which item is duped and which isn't you should 'mark' those items as they are produced. That way legit players will know if an item is legit or not and if they still decide to buy that specific item they would have no right to complain if actions are taken.
Maybe something to think about?
AKradian already explained why that's not really a possibility, because it's not something they can "mark" as it happens and they can only distinguish it after they find (and fix) what exploit was used to make the item, which could take days or as we have seen, can take years.
if they had a way to "mark" it immediately, then why wouldn't they have the system programed to delete said item immediately instead or not let it exist in the first place.
Que den ip ban perm a todos los hackers/dupers, y a los que compraron por mesos o $$ debieron darse cuenta por el precio del item...
Dejen de llorar perras
No kidding, it isnt just the hackers/dupers fault, it is the desire people have to want things easier so they seek out these items, or buying mesos from the same people. The demand for better stuff now than through earnest work is what exploded the "black market" in maplestory. Nexon is in all its rights to take anything away no matter what the people paid, that Nexon themselves didnt provide.
So much this. Kids these days have no patience whatsoever. And by kids, I mean the "adults" who go outside the terms and conditions to acquire things with real $$$. Sure, it sucks to lose real money, and it is perfectly your right to spend it how you see fit, but how can you not understand the risks associated with spending that money?!
I actually had an item removed from my inventory, thankfuly I wasn't banned. but I had an infamous Red Craven, someone was tossing out junk and in it was a red craven so I picked it up thinking I might be able to merge it with my own with my alchemist. Well it was very godly so I kept it before retiring my character from battle without equipping it. Came back lately and the Craven's missing but now that I know it's duped I'm glad I wasn't banned.
They dupe ? It'S your fault
You buy a dupe ? It's you fault
It's a mmo where trading and buying item from others is supposed to be an important aspect..... Nope, screw it, you are about to buy a dupe.
I've read this and that's how i feel. Well might aswell just delete the market and auction house no ? You can hardly buy anything legit i guess ? I've barely started playing again after 2-3 years. How should i know if im about to buy a dupe after so much time (unless it's utterly obvious like item with way higher stats than they should) ? Guess i'll just keep my crap gear then.
This wouldn't have been an issue if Nexon removed these items WHEN THEY WERE DUPED instead of YEARS later.
When an item has been a duplicate for so long, it becomes hard to tell whether it's duped or not.
And what about the cubes spent on these equips? Thousands of dollars down the drain. Complete bullshit.
Hope you're happy nexon, you've lost a customer.
I lost 12 years of legit work, a level 250 kaiser and thousand of $ for buying a level 200 weapon from a hacker.
NEXON DO NOT CARE if they lost you.
They represent the opposite of truth and justice.
Don't buy gear from hackers... that should be a red flag to begin with. Also admitting that you paid a hacker with $$ is against Nexon's Rules. Of course its followed with a ban.
Comments
There is always a way of knowing an item is duped. In EMS we had a duped legendary Carte Finale. It was recognizable in most cases because 99% of the people just kept the same potentials and just sold it, while the smartest ones recubed it. Some forgot to recube the add pot and made it obvious what they were trying to do. As for cards with both potentials modified, it's mostly up to the seller's reliability. It does not take a long research to find out whether the seller is a long date (phantom, in our case) who surely cubed his own carte before the dupe even started, in the other cases you know you're facing a risk.
The card never got deleted, but if it did (I reported at least 30 copies of it), the same topic going on here would have gone on our old forums aswell.
And this is the case I was referring to. You in the end, and people like you, are the few who actually fell victims for it with few chances of preventing it - only one would be being aware that there are many duped outlaws around, and you avoid trading outlaws at any condition until something is sorted out. I know talking like this now is easy, but I have been in this situation myself and luckily I stayed out of it safely. You lost an outlaw, I hope for you to never go through all this again.
I will give you this sentence which is a generalization that includes both your sentences:
"buying items that give advantage on others and holding them"
Perm ban or no? To you the answer. Try to be unbiased.
To be honest those might even be simply items cubed by botters (check FM7 in Luna if you want), they are just impossible to track down once they have been sold because, just like scrolls, cubes disappear once used, and the item is technically legitimate (it's not, but you get me).
This means people who held these duped items were able to get advantage out of them for years, and maybe used thousands of cubes on one item rather than constantly upgrading sets and cubing brand new items, each of them a thousand times, losing much more. Basically, choose between abusing an item to hell and then losing it, or cubing your regular items every time and losing each of them once new equips come out. And you even complain for losing the item! Congratulations, you make dupe abusing seem the way to go.
These few illecit ways we think about are, sadly, by far the mostly used by the vast majority of people who then complain about being hacked "but I didn't do anything wrong" or being busted by Nexon "but I didn't do anything wrong", which enforces my final point:
5 years and nothing has changed. You're right. Years of item duping, years of people buying duped items, years of people complaining if anything is done to correct this, years of the same people falling into buying duped items again in a vicious cycle. If anyone had a grain of brain, you may fall for the wrong (getting scammed, unknowingly buying a dupe) once, but once you get a loss of money over it (the scammed amount, the sum wasted on duped items) you learn to stay away from it and you don't do it again. If you perseverate, either you can't learn from experience or you are in bad faith, both cases where you will keep paying for your misactions to feed first-place abusers like a masochist.
Everyone screaming "I lost X and hacker got away with Y" is those people who systematically forget their own experience. You lost something due to a hacker? Next time you don't feed him your money, pretty sure you won't lose it like that again.
The fault for these losses is not Nexon's for deleting duped items, hell it was the correct move. The fault is on the shoulders of all those who kept feeding the illegit market every time it had freshly been taken down. If nobody bought hacked/duped items from now on, there would never possibly be another topic like this. There will be one in the future, I let you figure out why.
AKradian already explained why that's not really a possibility, because it's not something they can "mark" as it happens and they can only distinguish it after they find (and fix) what exploit was used to make the item, which could take days or as we have seen, can take years.
if they had a way to "mark" it immediately, then why wouldn't they have the system programed to delete said item immediately instead or not let it exist in the first place.
Dejen de llorar perras
So much this. Kids these days have no patience whatsoever. And by kids, I mean the "adults" who go outside the terms and conditions to acquire things with real $$$. Sure, it sucks to lose real money, and it is perfectly your right to spend it how you see fit, but how can you not understand the risks associated with spending that money?!
They dupe ? It'S your fault
You buy a dupe ? It's you fault
It's a mmo where trading and buying item from others is supposed to be an important aspect..... Nope, screw it, you are about to buy a dupe.
I've read this and that's how i feel. Well might aswell just delete the market and auction house no ? You can hardly buy anything legit i guess ? I've barely started playing again after 2-3 years. How should i know if im about to buy a dupe after so much time (unless it's utterly obvious like item with way higher stats than they should) ? Guess i'll just keep my crap gear then.
Don't buy gear from hackers... that should be a red flag to begin with. Also admitting that you paid a hacker with $$ is against Nexon's Rules. Of course its followed with a ban.