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We all want a merge

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  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited July 2018
    Acgnolia wrote: »
    Cadena91 wrote: »
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    Back to the main discussion, there is the option to leave the servers and alliances intact and have population changes when Nexon decides to make a world leap event or to have server merge or make a larger alliance. If you just started in Maplestory or didn't make significant progress in your server, all suggestions sound the same as long it allows you to see players you want to see or just want more players to interact with.

    The first idea sounds somewhat dumb because players choose where they want to go (I'm not against players having choices.) The problem with that we are not going to have an even population and Bera could go from crowded to dangerously crowded while other servers just dry up. The inverse of this can happen where ifBera becomes unavailable and someone shouts "Let's make Broni HUUUGE!" and Broni because the new Bera.

    For TRUE merges, people who made 46+ characters by extending their armies into other allying worlds would have to "kill" or delete some mules. There is another conflict with storage if storage is overfilled and you decide to merge storage with raising the capacity of the safe itself. Worlds merging into one like Kradia + Dementhos = Luna (not DK) in EMS might had came with some character deletions if they went past the limit Pre-V and items in storage getting changed if one stuffed one to full capacity.

    World Alliances are sloppy on the surface since the world selection screen does not look simplified. The beauty of alliances is that any personal progress such as storage expansion is kept and you don't need to worry about deleting characters. To Scanians, Windians and Berans, each of the worlds in an alliance have separate Reward Point Shop purchase limit as well as attendance checks.

    Whether we are given the choice to move or Nexon plans on merging or allying our severs, I can guarantee no one wants to have to deal with other sacrifices or have to redo other tedious tasks. These things include re-expanding storage, redoing monster collection and as mentioned above, deleting characters and having to fit items into storage and character rosters.

    I find the idea of having quiet worlds for players would backfire. Not only it is like going to an empty store or having no customers, some content and events won't work the few player(s) in the ghost town will be severely weaker. If I were the only person in GRAZED right now, minigames from the Ark Discovery events and games like Bingo will fail to initiate due to not having not enough players.

    I would personally choose to alliance with other servers even thought it makes world selection look busy when are actually less worlds (like how auditoriums have two sets of doors and not different rooms.) Being in an alliance salvages a lot of progress and players who don't play in an allianced server will enjoy the perks of being in an alliance.

    I am curious, would you want to wait for world leap, ask for a merge, or have Nexon forge alliances? And regardless whether they mix populations or use either method of addition, more channels per world would be helpful. :P

    I am still curious which solution you hope Nexon is going with or what you guys have in mind. Just saying "merge" is not detailed unless you are specifying a MERGE and not an alliance or a leap. In my own thread, we were fighting for flames and did specify that we want KMS's version of flames and not MSEA's and mentioned that we did not want the scissor count while having all the tiers and being able to craft them.

    This may sound crazy, but I believe Nexon will take our suggestions seriously if we know EXACTLY what we want and are not just supporting the idea.

    Too easy.
    Merge all the worlds with Bera, also just by saying "Just saying "merge" is not detailed", it doesn't make you right.
    We say merge because this is the only solution.
    There's no need for details, really.
    Just merge all the worlds with Bera, and of course, take care of botters/hackers as much as possible, I believe, if Nexon want to, they can easily take care of at least half of them, this is just way too easy, they just need to DO it, not talk about it, less talking, more banning. we need deeds, not words. and we need and want them now.

    Details are very important in any plan implemented.

    "Oh, hey, let's build a hecking building."
    "sure, you got the blue prints and details of materials needed, how things need to go? How building the building will affect the surroundings, the foundation the building will be built on?"
    "Nah man, not important, this building has to be built, it's the only thing we need to know." "not important man, details just not imoprtant."


    So, YOU do need to address why it is "the only solution" how YOU think Nexon can take care of botters/hackers if they wanted to. If youre telling them to do it, you need to explain why it's so easy to do. They arent mind readers. The burden of proof is on YOU alone, since youre saying this stuff.

    If youre not willing to give the details or explain yourself with these vague statements/reasons, then this no longer counts as a request nor a suggestion, but a demand. And I don't think Nexon should have to take unreasonable demands from someone that cannot explain why these things are so easy.

    I mentioned this before, but if there was less worlds, theoretically it should be easier easier for mods to keep an eye out and have surveillance on bots? Not saying it has to be 1 world, but just less then the number of worlds we have now.

    Apparently, most of the bans are done by the atuomated system, or so Ive heard. hackers (real hackers, the ones that write/develop the game altering programs, not the people that buy them from these hackers) always think ahead of any changes thatll be made to the automated system. Every world has their set of GMs (not mods) that patrol and act accordingly, what theyll most likel do ( if Nexon is just about money, as people claim, they will cut the expense of paying those extra GMs or just keep no more than 3 from all those GMs ) So, if say Bera is chosen for the merge, say Bera now has 2-3 GMs that patrol, they keep those 2-3 and then keep only 1-3 total in addition, from all those GMs from the worlds that were merged.
  • BanditUrpleBanditUrple
    Reactions: 605
    Posts: 8
    Member
    edited July 2018
    Cadena91 wrote: »
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    Back to the main discussion, there is the option to leave the servers and alliances intact and have population changes when Nexon decides to make a world leap event or to have server merge or make a larger alliance. If you just started in Maplestory or didn't make significant progress in your server, all suggestions sound the same as long it allows you to see players you want to see or just want more players to interact with.

    The first idea sounds somewhat dumb because players choose where they want to go (I'm not against players having choices.) The problem with that we are not going to have an even population and Bera could go from crowded to dangerously crowded while other servers just dry up. The inverse of this can happen where ifBera becomes unavailable and someone shouts "Let's make Broni HUUUGE!" and Broni because the new Bera.

    For TRUE merges, people who made 46+ characters by extending their armies into other allying worlds would have to "kill" or delete some mules. There is another conflict with storage if storage is overfilled and you decide to merge storage with raising the capacity of the safe itself. Worlds merging into one like Kradia + Dementhos = Luna (not DK) in EMS might had came with some character deletions if they went past the limit Pre-V and items in storage getting changed if one stuffed one to full capacity.

    World Alliances are sloppy on the surface since the world selection screen does not look simplified. The beauty of alliances is that any personal progress such as storage expansion is kept and you don't need to worry about deleting characters. To Scanians, Windians and Berans, each of the worlds in an alliance have separate Reward Point Shop purchase limit as well as attendance checks.

    Whether we are given the choice to move or Nexon plans on merging or allying our severs, I can guarantee no one wants to have to deal with other sacrifices or have to redo other tedious tasks. These things include re-expanding storage, redoing monster collection and as mentioned above, deleting characters and having to fit items into storage and character rosters.

    I find the idea of having quiet worlds for players would backfire. Not only it is like going to an empty store or having no customers, some content and events won't work the few player(s) in the ghost town will be severely weaker. If I were the only person in GRAZED right now, minigames from the Ark Discovery events and games like Bingo will fail to initiate due to not having not enough players.

    I would personally choose to alliance with other servers even thought it makes world selection look busy when are actually less worlds (like how auditoriums have two sets of doors and not different rooms.) Being in an alliance salvages a lot of progress and players who don't play in an allianced server will enjoy the perks of being in an alliance.

    I am curious, would you want to wait for world leap, ask for a merge, or have Nexon forge alliances? And regardless whether they mix populations or use either method of addition, more channels per world would be helpful. :P

    I am still curious which solution you hope Nexon is going with or what you guys have in mind. Just saying "merge" is not detailed unless you are specifying a MERGE and not an alliance or a leap. In my own thread, we were fighting for flames and did specify that we want KMS's version of flames and not MSEA's and mentioned that we did not want the scissor count while having all the tiers and being able to craft them.

    This may sound crazy, but I believe Nexon will take our suggestions seriously if we know EXACTLY what we want and are not just supporting the idea.

    Too easy.
    Merge all the worlds with Bera, also just by saying "Just saying "merge" is not detailed", it doesn't make you right.
    We say merge because this is the only solution.
    There's no need for details, really.
    Just merge all the worlds with Bera, and of course, take care of botters/hackers as much as possible, I believe, if Nexon want to, they can easily take care of at least half of them, this is just way too easy, they just need to DO it, not talk about it, less talking, more banning. we need deeds, not words. and we need and want them now.

    Details are very important in any plan implemented.

    "Oh, hey, let's build a hecking building."
    "sure, you got the blue prints and details of materials needed, how things need to go? How building the building will affect the surroundings, the foundation the building will be built on?"
    "Nah man, not important, this building has to be built, it's the only thing we need to know." "not important man, details just not imoprtant."


    So, YOU do need to address why it is "the only solution" how YOU think Nexon can take care of botters/hackers if they wanted to. If youre telling them to do it, you need to explain why it's so easy to do. They arent mind readers. The burden of proof is on YOU alone, since youre saying this stuff.

    If youre not willing to give the details or explain yourself with these vague statements/reasons, then this no longer counts as a request nor a suggestion, but a demand. And I don't think Nexon should have to take unreasonable demands from someone that cannot explain why these things are so easy.

    I know his post wasn't phrased as a direct suggestion but I really don't think he deserves this sort of criticism.. it shouldn't be about explaining how easy a merge would be to do, it should be about explaining why a merge is necessary, which this thread is clearly a testament to. I never see threads get this popular on maples forums, and even if it is the same 100 or so people coming back causing more views they are clearly invested enough in this issue to keep on returning to the same conversation.. so it's clear this issue is significantly affecting players enough to take time out of their day to revisit a thread dozens of times. and that should be the reason that inspires nexon to implement some sort of merge, not one coder/developer explaining how easy it would be, or one hardcore fan laying out an elaborate plan on how to implement it.

    I also don't think anything he said was vague, he's pretty specific he prefers all world's into bera... I think the fact that he didn't specify whether a merge or alliance or other option is also a testament to how necessary action is on this issue.. his post screams of desperation for Nexon to take initiative, which should reinforce to Nexon how important the OP's initial suggestion is.

    It might be phrased more as a demand than a suggestion, but it sure isn't an unreasonable demand.. Nexon doesn't have to specifically give into this person's demands, but they should definitely treat it as a reference point as to how these population and bottom issues are affecting the players.. we shouldn't be arguing with each other on this issue, just building off each other's ideas.

    Although this guy's post was quite assertive I bet he'd even be satisfied with 2 non reboot world's.. we just need some change
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited July 2018
    merge the worlds into bera is still vague. since youre speaking for him, you explain why the merge is the only way, the "easy steps" Nexon can take to ban the hackers/bots, and explain why details aren't important for such a huge change to the game. "merge all worlds into Bera" specifies nothing, just what he wants, not the steps to do so.

    I would say I was lenient with my criticism as these forums have strict code of Conduct. There's no other way to call him out. But I gave a decent example as to why details are important.

    "so it's clear this issue is significantly affecting players enough to take time out of their day to revisit a thread dozens of times. and that should be the reason that inspires nexon to implement some sort of merge, not one coder/developer explaining how easy it would be, or one hardcore fan laying out an elaborate plan on how to implement it." That's where youre wrong, it is up to the person demanding to give the details. "just because people are talking about it, nexon should get inspired" that's what youre settling as your thesis? that inspiration trumps any structure on implementation and detailed plans?

    So let me put this into perspective, lets say you drive, I don't care if you do or not, just for the sake of this example, your car breaks down, you take it to the mechanic to get it fixed; you say " my car broke down". So, they say "ok let us check and see whats the issue", you say, nah just fix it. Mechanic says, " we need to know what the issue is before we fix it and how to fix it" you say, no, you should feel inspired to fix it without details because I need you to fix it, because I keep telling you to fix it, you don't need to know how to fix it. Just do it."

    so again, it isn't about the thread in its entirety, if youre barely reading this post he made, then you haven't read the 25 pages, because the reason why has already been said, not enough people in their worlds, to their liking. So, this post I had made WAS in fact about him explaining how the merge is the only way and for him to explain how easy it is to ban hackers, since he's the one that said it. he has to prove it.

    to wrap it all up, we are in no position to demand anything from a privately owned company, regardless of how much money you spend on NX or not. You pay the money, you get the good (NX) you pay it for. the transaction is done, you don't spend to have special rights/privilege in demanding changes or anything of the likes.

    Unless, you see the issue with explaining how to ban hackers and botters, if it's so easy; again with the car analogy, it'll be like taking your car to the mechanic and explaining to them how to fix your own car. Or how a merge is the only way would be like telling Nexon your big picture is greater than theirs.
  • AlantinoAlantino
    Reactions: 990
    Posts: 52
    Member
    edited July 2018
    e
    Acgnolia wrote: »
    Cadena91 wrote: »
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    Back to the main discussion, there is the option to leave the servers and alliances intact and have population changes when Nexon decides to make a world leap event or to have server merge or make a larger alliance. If you just started in Maplestory or didn't make significant progress in your server, all suggestions sound the same as long it allows you to see players you want to see or just want more players to interact with.

    The first idea sounds somewhat dumb because players choose where they want to go (I'm not against players having choices.) The problem with that we are not going to have an even population and Bera could go from crowded to dangerously crowded while other servers just dry up. The inverse of this can happen where ifBera becomes unavailable and someone shouts "Let's make Broni HUUUGE!" and Broni because the new Bera.

    For TRUE merges, people who made 46+ characters by extending their armies into other allying worlds would have to "kill" or delete some mules. There is another conflict with storage if storage is overfilled and you decide to merge storage with raising the capacity of the safe itself. Worlds merging into one like Kradia + Dementhos = Luna (not DK) in EMS might had came with some character deletions if they went past the limit Pre-V and items in storage getting changed if one stuffed one to full capacity.

    World Alliances are sloppy on the surface since the world selection screen does not look simplified. The beauty of alliances is that any personal progress such as storage expansion is kept and you don't need to worry about deleting characters. To Scanians, Windians and Berans, each of the worlds in an alliance have separate Reward Point Shop purchase limit as well as attendance checks.

    Whether we are given the choice to move or Nexon plans on merging or allying our severs, I can guarantee no one wants to have to deal with other sacrifices or have to redo other tedious tasks. These things include re-expanding storage, redoing monster collection and as mentioned above, deleting characters and having to fit items into storage and character rosters.

    I find the idea of having quiet worlds for players would backfire. Not only it is like going to an empty store or having no customers, some content and events won't work the few player(s) in the ghost town will be severely weaker. If I were the only person in GRAZED right now, minigames from the Ark Discovery events and games like Bingo will fail to initiate due to not having not enough players.

    I would personally choose to alliance with other servers even thought it makes world selection look busy when are actually less worlds (like how auditoriums have two sets of doors and not different rooms.) Being in an alliance salvages a lot of progress and players who don't play in an allianced server will enjoy the perks of being in an alliance.

    I am curious, would you want to wait for world leap, ask for a merge, or have Nexon forge alliances? And regardless whether they mix populations or use either method of addition, more channels per world would be helpful. :P

    I am still curious which solution you hope Nexon is going with or what you guys have in mind. Just saying "merge" is not detailed unless you are specifying a MERGE and not an alliance or a leap. In my own thread, we were fighting for flames and did specify that we want KMS's version of flames and not MSEA's and mentioned that we did not want the scissor count while having all the tiers and being able to craft them.

    This may sound crazy, but I believe Nexon will take our suggestions seriously if we know EXACTLY what we want and are not just supporting the idea.

    Too easy.
    Merge all the worlds with Bera, also just by saying "Just saying "merge" is not detailed", it doesn't make you right.
    We say merge because this is the only solution.
    There's no need for details, really.
    Just merge all the worlds with Bera, and of course, take care of botters/hackers as much as possible, I believe, if Nexon want to, they can easily take care of at least half of them, this is just way too easy, they just need to DO it, not talk about it, less talking, more banning. we need deeds, not words. and we need and want them now.

    Details are very important in any plan implemented.

    "Oh, hey, let's build a hecking building."
    "sure, you got the blue prints and details of materials needed, how things need to go? How building the building will affect the surroundings, the foundation the building will be built on?"
    "Nah man, not important, this building has to be built, it's the only thing we need to know." "not important man, details just not imoprtant."


    So, YOU do need to address why it is "the only solution" how YOU think Nexon can take care of botters/hackers if they wanted to. If youre telling them to do it, you need to explain why it's so easy to do. They arent mind readers. The burden of proof is on YOU alone, since youre saying this stuff.

    If youre not willing to give the details or explain yourself with these vague statements/reasons, then this no longer counts as a request nor a suggestion, but a demand. And I don't think Nexon should have to take unreasonable demands from someone that cannot explain why these things are so easy.

    I mentioned this before, but if there was less worlds, theoretically it should be easier easier for mods to keep an eye out and have surveillance on bots? Not saying it has to be 1 world, but just less then the number of worlds we have now.

    I think 2 big worlds, Bera and Reboot, would be the best idea, because let's face it, the game is really really empty... I doubt we'd have enough people even if we do that... therefore we must do it quickly.
  • AcgnoliaAcgnolia
    Reactions: 1,280
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited July 2018
    Acgnolia wrote: »
    Cadena91 wrote: »
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    Back to the main discussion, there is the option to leave the servers and alliances intact and have population changes when Nexon decides to make a world leap event or to have server merge or make a larger alliance. If you just started in Maplestory or didn't make significant progress in your server, all suggestions sound the same as long it allows you to see players you want to see or just want more players to interact with.

    The first idea sounds somewhat dumb because players choose where they want to go (I'm not against players having choices.) The problem with that we are not going to have an even population and Bera could go from crowded to dangerously crowded while other servers just dry up. The inverse of this can happen where ifBera becomes unavailable and someone shouts "Let's make Broni HUUUGE!" and Broni because the new Bera.

    For TRUE merges, people who made 46+ characters by extending their armies into other allying worlds would have to "kill" or delete some mules. There is another conflict with storage if storage is overfilled and you decide to merge storage with raising the capacity of the safe itself. Worlds merging into one like Kradia + Dementhos = Luna (not DK) in EMS might had came with some character deletions if they went past the limit Pre-V and items in storage getting changed if one stuffed one to full capacity.

    World Alliances are sloppy on the surface since the world selection screen does not look simplified. The beauty of alliances is that any personal progress such as storage expansion is kept and you don't need to worry about deleting characters. To Scanians, Windians and Berans, each of the worlds in an alliance have separate Reward Point Shop purchase limit as well as attendance checks.

    Whether we are given the choice to move or Nexon plans on merging or allying our severs, I can guarantee no one wants to have to deal with other sacrifices or have to redo other tedious tasks. These things include re-expanding storage, redoing monster collection and as mentioned above, deleting characters and having to fit items into storage and character rosters.

    I find the idea of having quiet worlds for players would backfire. Not only it is like going to an empty store or having no customers, some content and events won't work the few player(s) in the ghost town will be severely weaker. If I were the only person in GRAZED right now, minigames from the Ark Discovery events and games like Bingo will fail to initiate due to not having not enough players.

    I would personally choose to alliance with other servers even thought it makes world selection look busy when are actually less worlds (like how auditoriums have two sets of doors and not different rooms.) Being in an alliance salvages a lot of progress and players who don't play in an allianced server will enjoy the perks of being in an alliance.

    I am curious, would you want to wait for world leap, ask for a merge, or have Nexon forge alliances? And regardless whether they mix populations or use either method of addition, more channels per world would be helpful. :P

    I am still curious which solution you hope Nexon is going with or what you guys have in mind. Just saying "merge" is not detailed unless you are specifying a MERGE and not an alliance or a leap. In my own thread, we were fighting for flames and did specify that we want KMS's version of flames and not MSEA's and mentioned that we did not want the scissor count while having all the tiers and being able to craft them.

    This may sound crazy, but I believe Nexon will take our suggestions seriously if we know EXACTLY what we want and are not just supporting the idea.

    Too easy.
    Merge all the worlds with Bera, also just by saying "Just saying "merge" is not detailed", it doesn't make you right.
    We say merge because this is the only solution.
    There's no need for details, really.
    Just merge all the worlds with Bera, and of course, take care of botters/hackers as much as possible, I believe, if Nexon want to, they can easily take care of at least half of them, this is just way too easy, they just need to DO it, not talk about it, less talking, more banning. we need deeds, not words. and we need and want them now.

    Details are very important in any plan implemented.

    "Oh, hey, let's build a hecking building."
    "sure, you got the blue prints and details of materials needed, how things need to go? How building the building will affect the surroundings, the foundation the building will be built on?"
    "Nah man, not important, this building has to be built, it's the only thing we need to know." "not important man, details just not imoprtant."


    So, YOU do need to address why it is "the only solution" how YOU think Nexon can take care of botters/hackers if they wanted to. If youre telling them to do it, you need to explain why it's so easy to do. They arent mind readers. The burden of proof is on YOU alone, since youre saying this stuff.

    If youre not willing to give the details or explain yourself with these vague statements/reasons, then this no longer counts as a request nor a suggestion, but a demand. And I don't think Nexon should have to take unreasonable demands from someone that cannot explain why these things are so easy.

    I mentioned this before, but if there was less worlds, theoretically it should be easier easier for mods to keep an eye out and have surveillance on bots? Not saying it has to be 1 world, but just less then the number of worlds we have now.

    Apparently, most of the bans are done by the atuomated system, or so Ive heard. hackers (real hackers, the ones that write/develop the game altering programs, not the people that buy them from these hackers) always think ahead of any changes thatll be made to the automated system. Every world has their set of GMs (not mods) that patrol and act accordingly, what theyll most likel do ( if Nexon is just about money, as people claim, they will cut the expense of paying those extra GMs or just keep no more than 3 from all those GMs ) So, if say Bera is chosen for the merge, say Bera now has 2-3 GMs that patrol, they keep those 2-3 and then keep only 1-3 total in addition, from all those GMs from the worlds that were merged.

    Obviously, if that is the path nexon takes, the advantage I spoke of will vanish. I do think it would be helpful to have more GMs to police the servers.
    merge the worlds into bera is still vague. since youre speaking for him, you explain why the merge is the only way, the "easy steps" Nexon can take to ban the hackers/bots, and explain why details aren't important for such a huge change to the game. "merge all worlds into Bera" specifies nothing, just what he wants, not the steps to do so.

    I would say I was lenient with my criticism as these forums have strict code of Conduct. There's no other way to call him out. But I gave a decent example as to why details are important.

    "so it's clear this issue is significantly affecting players enough to take time out of their day to revisit a thread dozens of times. and that should be the reason that inspires nexon to implement some sort of merge, not one coder/developer explaining how easy it would be, or one hardcore fan laying out an elaborate plan on how to implement it." That's where youre wrong, it is up to the person demanding to give the details. "just because people are talking about it, nexon should get inspired" that's what youre settling as your thesis? that inspiration trumps any structure on implementation and detailed plans?

    So let me put this into perspective, lets say you drive, I don't care if you do or not, just for the sake of this example, your car breaks down, you take it to the mechanic to get it fixed; you say " my car broke down". So, they say "ok let us check and see whats the issue", you say, nah just fix it. Mechanic says, " we need to know what the issue is before we fix it and how to fix it" you say, no, you should feel inspired to fix it without details because I need you to fix it, because I keep telling you to fix it, you don't need to know how to fix it. Just do it."

    so again, it isn't about the thread in its entirety, if youre barely reading this post he made, then you haven't read the 25 pages, because the reason why has already been said, not enough people in their worlds, to their liking. So, this post I had made WAS in fact about him explaining how the merge is the only way and for him to explain how easy it is to ban hackers, since he's the one that said it. he has to prove it.

    to wrap it all up, we are in no position to demand anything from a privately owned company, regardless of how much money you spend on NX or not. You pay the money, you get the good (NX) you pay it for. the transaction is done, you don't spend to have special rights/privilege in demanding changes or anything of the likes.

    Unless, you see the issue with explaining how to ban hackers and botters, if it's so easy; again with the car analogy, it'll be like taking your car to the mechanic and explaining to them how to fix your own car. Or how a merge is the only way would be like telling Nexon your big picture is greater than theirs.
    [/s]

    We already identified the problem, its that every world regular server but Bera is dead, leaving those who do not wish to stay in a their dead world stuck with no way to get out. The solutions are either have a transfer, merge, or create alliances. Im confided that a transfer event alone would exacerbate the current problem. That is why im advocating for a merge/alliance. I think three regular servers is what we need. Il even concede that 4 will work.

    But do we all agree not every server but Bera should be dead?, Im sure even if you want to play in a low populated server you would agree with on that. And you are right about us not being owed anything. If Nexon made an announcement just saying "no we won't do anything," il stop posting, il be satisfied I got an answer that will be the end of it.
  • AcgnoliaAcgnolia
    Reactions: 1,280
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited July 2018
    .
  • Kaiser4EverKaiser4Ever
    Reactions: 1,100
    Posts: 55
    Member
    edited July 2018
    Acgnolia wrote: »
    Acgnolia wrote: »
    Cadena91 wrote: »
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    Back to the main discussion, there is the option to leave the servers and alliances intact and have population changes when Nexon decides to make a world leap event or to have server merge or make a larger alliance. If you just started in Maplestory or didn't make significant progress in your server, all suggestions sound the same as long it allows you to see players you want to see or just want more players to interact with.

    The first idea sounds somewhat dumb because players choose where they want to go (I'm not against players having choices.) The problem with that we are not going to have an even population and Bera could go from crowded to dangerously crowded while other servers just dry up. The inverse of this can happen where ifBera becomes unavailable and someone shouts "Let's make Broni HUUUGE!" and Broni because the new Bera.

    For TRUE merges, people who made 46+ characters by extending their armies into other allying worlds would have to "kill" or delete some mules. There is another conflict with storage if storage is overfilled and you decide to merge storage with raising the capacity of the safe itself. Worlds merging into one like Kradia + Dementhos = Luna (not DK) in EMS might had came with some character deletions if they went past the limit Pre-V and items in storage getting changed if one stuffed one to full capacity.

    World Alliances are sloppy on the surface since the world selection screen does not look simplified. The beauty of alliances is that any personal progress such as storage expansion is kept and you don't need to worry about deleting characters. To Scanians, Windians and Berans, each of the worlds in an alliance have separate Reward Point Shop purchase limit as well as attendance checks.

    Whether we are given the choice to move or Nexon plans on merging or allying our severs, I can guarantee no one wants to have to deal with other sacrifices or have to redo other tedious tasks. These things include re-expanding storage, redoing monster collection and as mentioned above, deleting characters and having to fit items into storage and character rosters.

    I find the idea of having quiet worlds for players would backfire. Not only it is like going to an empty store or having no customers, some content and events won't work the few player(s) in the ghost town will be severely weaker. If I were the only person in GRAZED right now, minigames from the Ark Discovery events and games like Bingo will fail to initiate due to not having not enough players.

    I would personally choose to alliance with other servers even thought it makes world selection look busy when are actually less worlds (like how auditoriums have two sets of doors and not different rooms.) Being in an alliance salvages a lot of progress and players who don't play in an allianced server will enjoy the perks of being in an alliance.

    I am curious, would you want to wait for world leap, ask for a merge, or have Nexon forge alliances? And regardless whether they mix populations or use either method of addition, more channels per world would be helpful. :P

    I am still curious which solution you hope Nexon is going with or what you guys have in mind. Just saying "merge" is not detailed unless you are specifying a MERGE and not an alliance or a leap. In my own thread, we were fighting for flames and did specify that we want KMS's version of flames and not MSEA's and mentioned that we did not want the scissor count while having all the tiers and being able to craft them.

    This may sound crazy, but I believe Nexon will take our suggestions seriously if we know EXACTLY what we want and are not just supporting the idea.

    Too easy.
    Merge all the worlds with Bera, also just by saying "Just saying "merge" is not detailed", it doesn't make you right.
    We say merge because this is the only solution.
    There's no need for details, really.
    Just merge all the worlds with Bera, and of course, take care of botters/hackers as much as possible, I believe, if Nexon want to, they can easily take care of at least half of them, this is just way too easy, they just need to DO it, not talk about it, less talking, more banning. we need deeds, not words. and we need and want them now.

    Details are very important in any plan implemented.

    "Oh, hey, let's build a hecking building."
    "sure, you got the blue prints and details of materials needed, how things need to go? How building the building will affect the surroundings, the foundation the building will be built on?"
    "Nah man, not important, this building has to be built, it's the only thing we need to know." "not important man, details just not imoprtant."


    So, YOU do need to address why it is "the only solution" how YOU think Nexon can take care of botters/hackers if they wanted to. If youre telling them to do it, you need to explain why it's so easy to do. They arent mind readers. The burden of proof is on YOU alone, since youre saying this stuff.

    If youre not willing to give the details or explain yourself with these vague statements/reasons, then this no longer counts as a request nor a suggestion, but a demand. And I don't think Nexon should have to take unreasonable demands from someone that cannot explain why these things are so easy.

    I mentioned this before, but if there was less worlds, theoretically it should be easier easier for mods to keep an eye out and have surveillance on bots? Not saying it has to be 1 world, but just less then the number of worlds we have now.

    Apparently, most of the bans are done by the atuomated system, or so Ive heard. hackers (real hackers, the ones that write/develop the game altering programs, not the people that buy them from these hackers) always think ahead of any changes thatll be made to the automated system. Every world has their set of GMs (not mods) that patrol and act accordingly, what theyll most likel do ( if Nexon is just about money, as people claim, they will cut the expense of paying those extra GMs or just keep no more than 3 from all those GMs ) So, if say Bera is chosen for the merge, say Bera now has 2-3 GMs that patrol, they keep those 2-3 and then keep only 1-3 total in addition, from all those GMs from the worlds that were merged.

    Obviously, if that is the path nexon takes, the advantage I spoke of will vanish. I do think it would be helpful to have more GMs to police the servers.
    merge the worlds into bera is still vague. since youre speaking for him, you explain why the merge is the only way, the "easy steps" Nexon can take to ban the hackers/bots, and explain why details aren't important for such a huge change to the game. "merge all worlds into Bera" specifies nothing, just what he wants, not the steps to do so.

    I would say I was lenient with my criticism as these forums have strict code of Conduct. There's no other way to call him out. But I gave a decent example as to why details are important.

    "so it's clear this issue is significantly affecting players enough to take time out of their day to revisit a thread dozens of times. and that should be the reason that inspires nexon to implement some sort of merge, not one coder/developer explaining how easy it would be, or one hardcore fan laying out an elaborate plan on how to implement it." That's where youre wrong, it is up to the person demanding to give the details. "just because people are talking about it, nexon should get inspired" that's what youre settling as your thesis? that inspiration trumps any structure on implementation and detailed plans?

    So let me put this into perspective, lets say you drive, I don't care if you do or not, just for the sake of this example, your car breaks down, you take it to the mechanic to get it fixed; you say " my car broke down". So, they say "ok let us check and see whats the issue", you say, nah just fix it. Mechanic says, " we need to know what the issue is before we fix it and how to fix it" you say, no, you should feel inspired to fix it without details because I need you to fix it, because I keep telling you to fix it, you don't need to know how to fix it. Just do it."

    so again, it isn't about the thread in its entirety, if youre barely reading this post he made, then you haven't read the 25 pages, because the reason why has already been said, not enough people in their worlds, to their liking. So, this post I had made WAS in fact about him explaining how the merge is the only way and for him to explain how easy it is to ban hackers, since he's the one that said it. he has to prove it.

    to wrap it all up, we are in no position to demand anything from a privately owned company, regardless of how much money you spend on NX or not. You pay the money, you get the good (NX) you pay it for. the transaction is done, you don't spend to have special rights/privilege in demanding changes or anything of the likes.

    Unless, you see the issue with explaining how to ban hackers and botters, if it's so easy; again with the car analogy, it'll be like taking your car to the mechanic and explaining to them how to fix your own car. Or how a merge is the only way would be like telling Nexon your big picture is greater than theirs.
    [/s]

    We already identified the problem, its that every world regular server but Bera is dead, leaving those who do not wish to stay in a their dead world stuck with no way to get out. The solutions are either have a transfer, merge, or create alliances. Im confided that a transfer event alone would exacerbate the current problem. That is why im advocating for a merge/alliance. I think three regular servers is what we need. Il even concede that 4 will work.

    But do we all agree not every server but Bera should be dead?, Im sure even if you want to play in a low populated server you would agree with on that. And you are right about us not being owed anything. If Nexon made an announcement just saying "no we won't do anything," il stop posting, il be satisfied I got an answer that will be the end of it.

    No, we really need to have only 2 worlds.
    Bera and Reboot, and as other people have mentioned, I doubt it'd be enough... the game has lost an incredible number of players, we really need to merge quickly.
  • Football5Football5
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    edited July 2018
    merge the worlds into bera is still vague. since youre speaking for him, you explain why the merge is the only way, the "easy steps" Nexon can take to ban the hackers/bots, and explain why details aren't important for such a huge change to the game. "merge all worlds into Bera" specifies nothing, just what he wants, not the steps to do so.

    I would say I was lenient with my criticism as these forums have strict code of Conduct. There's no other way to call him out. But I gave a decent example as to why details are important.

    "so it's clear this issue is significantly affecting players enough to take time out of their day to revisit a thread dozens of times. and that should be the reason that inspires nexon to implement some sort of merge, not one coder/developer explaining how easy it would be, or one hardcore fan laying out an elaborate plan on how to implement it." That's where youre wrong, it is up to the person demanding to give the details. "just because people are talking about it, nexon should get inspired" that's what youre settling as your thesis? that inspiration trumps any structure on implementation and detailed plans?

    So let me put this into perspective, lets say you drive, I don't care if you do or not, just for the sake of this example, your car breaks down, you take it to the mechanic to get it fixed; you say " my car broke down". So, they say "ok let us check and see whats the issue", you say, nah just fix it. Mechanic says, " we need to know what the issue is before we fix it and how to fix it" you say, no, you should feel inspired to fix it without details because I need you to fix it, because I keep telling you to fix it, you don't need to know how to fix it. Just do it."

    so again, it isn't about the thread in its entirety, if youre barely reading this post he made, then you haven't read the 25 pages, because the reason why has already been said, not enough people in their worlds, to their liking. So, this post I had made WAS in fact about him explaining how the merge is the only way and for him to explain how easy it is to ban hackers, since he's the one that said it. he has to prove it.

    to wrap it all up, we are in no position to demand anything from a privately owned company, regardless of how much money you spend on NX or not. You pay the money, you get the good (NX) you pay it for. the transaction is done, you don't spend to have special rights/privilege in demanding changes or anything of the likes.

    Unless, you see the issue with explaining how to ban hackers and botters, if it's so easy; again with the car analogy, it'll be like taking your car to the mechanic and explaining to them how to fix your own car. Or how a merge is the only way would be like telling Nexon your big picture is greater than theirs.

    No it's not vague.
    This is a really good idea and most of maplers would agree with us about it.
    We know exactly what we want, and we want it quickly.

    If you actually play in Bera, you can clearly see how dead is it.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    I don't think you know what the word means if you don't think it's vague.


    This isn't about Bera, this is about the game in its entirety, no one is entitled so much to say just because they play Bera, they want everyone else to play in there, besides Ill say this one more time, the vague comment isn't about the merge, it's about the demand with no details, no explanation as to how easy it is for nexon to ban hackers, pay attention.
  • Cadena91Cadena91
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    edited July 2018
    I don't think you know what the word means if you don't think it's vague.


    This isn't about Bera, this is about the game in its entirety, no one is entitled so much to say just because they play Bera, they want everyone else to play in there, besides Ill say this one more time, the vague comment isn't about the merge, it's about the demand with no details, no explanation as to how easy it is for nexon to ban hackers, pay attention.

    To be honest, what you guys (the ones that don't wanna merge worlds) saying really has no basis at all.
    Do you know the meaning of MMORPG? let me tell you then, in short, it means that MapleStory MUST have as many people as possible.

    Really simple, end of the conversation.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    But it doesn't require them to be in the same place

    so, it's not the end of the conversation, and you still cant explain why or how banning hackers is so easy, or haven't explained why the merge is the only option. You cant answer, that's why. so quit making demands, cause youre in no position to make them.
  • AcgnoliaAcgnolia
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    edited July 2018
    But it doesn't require them to be in the same place

    I think most of us don't mind there being a dead world, but will you agree with me that not every world other then Bera should be dead?
  • BanditUrpleBanditUrple
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    edited July 2018
    merge the worlds into bera is still vague. since youre speaking for him, you explain why the merge is the only way, the "easy steps" Nexon can take to ban the hackers/bots, and explain why details aren't important for such a huge change to the game. "merge all worlds into Bera" specifies nothing, just what he wants, not the steps to do so.

    I would say I was lenient with my criticism as these forums have strict code of Conduct. There's no other way to call him out. But I gave a decent example as to why details are important.

    "so it's clear this issue is significantly affecting players enough to take time out of their day to revisit a thread dozens of times. and that should be the reason that inspires nexon to implement some sort of merge, not one coder/developer explaining how easy it would be, or one hardcore fan laying out an elaborate plan on how to implement it." That's where youre wrong, it is up to the person demanding to give the details. "just because people are talking about it, nexon should get inspired" that's what youre settling as your thesis? that inspiration trumps any structure on implementation and detailed plans?

    So let me put this into perspective, lets say you drive, I don't care if you do or not, just for the sake of this example, your car breaks down, you take it to the mechanic to get it fixed; you say " my car broke down". So, they say "ok let us check and see whats the issue", you say, nah just fix it. Mechanic says, " we need to know what the issue is before we fix it and how to fix it" you say, no, you should feel inspired to fix it without details because I need you to fix it, because I keep telling you to fix it, you don't need to know how to fix it. Just do it."

    so again, it isn't about the thread in its entirety, if youre barely reading this post he made, then you haven't read the 25 pages, because the reason why has already been said, not enough people in their worlds, to their liking. So, this post I had made WAS in fact about him explaining how the merge is the only way and for him to explain how easy it is to ban hackers, since he's the one that said it. he has to prove it.

    to wrap it all up, we are in no position to demand anything from a privately owned company, regardless of how much money you spend on NX or not. You pay the money, you get the good (NX) you pay it for. the transaction is done, you don't spend to have special rights/privilege in demanding changes or anything of the likes.

    Unless, you see the issue with explaining how to ban hackers and botters, if it's so easy; again with the car analogy, it'll be like taking your car to the mechanic and explaining to them how to fix your own car. Or how a merge is the only way would be like telling Nexon your big picture is greater than theirs.

    I don't want to digress too far into a debate about semantics but I still don't see how that's vague.. whether you went the route of deleting all other servers for Bera or having a massive alliance, conceptually it is virtually the same and either way will solve the population problem he's angry about. The issue of link mules or having to pay to switch servers are also issues I understand he didn't touch on but this situation has been boiling for so long I can sympathize with his desperation for Nexon's initiative, I respect if you don't though. Are you one of the people who doesn't want any sort of merge? A merge is the only way because theres not enough people who don't want one to run the business in the long term.Sure people may suck it up despite wanting a merge (like me), but that's really risking letting the pot boil over.. it would be a risky business move not to take action on this issue. The hilarious part about you asking me to explain why a merge or solving the botting issue is easy is because Nexon has seemingly taken no meaningful action on the issue when they have the discretion to tackle these issues with maybe a gm blitz or actually doing another alliance?(last one was khaini and Broa no?). These are literally common sense. I see the same botters in hene all the time, no response to constant complaints about low populations. Of course the solution requires elaborate steps, but it can be seen as "easy" because right now they haven't done anything to solve the problems. the attempts they've made have been terrible that even common sense would be wary of them.. Banning automated system that is allegedly banning legit players? And undermining actual gm bans?(used to be a thing in the past)Attempting to solve the population problem with a world switch event how many times (still hasn't worked)? Ultimately compromising the population of all but one of the servers populations everytime? That's the only attempts I can think of of Nexon addressing these issues in the recent past, and alot of people could have predicted these outcomes.

    Lol my "thesis". Nexon should understand they're talking to their customers, not their business partners. This is a suggestion forum for video gamers I think you're mistaking our role in these processes. Implementing Structure and plans is going to be in the hands of Nexon, and aren't going to follow a fans plans to the tee. how are you undermining the idea of Nexon simply reading their suggestion forum and seeing what is getting attention? That is literally the purpose of this forum. Seems like a pretty effective way to hear your customers suggestions/complaints Imo.. him further emphasizing the need for a merge is a valid suggestion in and of itself, regardless of not saying how it should be done. Whether it's a merge or alliance or something else what everyone is willing to settle for at this point is a bigger population (except the few sentimental people who want their server name too) regardless of how we get there.

    Imo that wasn't a useful analogy... when a customer says "just fix it" it's obvious they are leaving the professional to do the technical work and the mechanic/professional is aware not everyone wants to talk about the nitty gritty of automobiles, and rather just want to use automobiles for themselves, just like a maplers trying to enjoy the game just want a bigger community that isn't cut into 6 different slices. I don't want to entertain the analogy, but to elaborate: you're treating a mechanic as analogous to Nexon staffers. So in both instances they are the professionals with the professional/technical skills to solve problems, also mind you there are in a customer service industry.. Customers simply say there's a problem and they want it fixed. Atleast that's what I tell my mechanic. "Just fix it". They are going to use their professional method to fix it, not argue with you about whether they're inspired or not, they'll fix the problem the customer demands the way they know how to, and ignoring the sass of their customers (which mechanics and Nexon and everyone involved in customer service is used to) while doing it.

    I have read most of the thread, so I assumed the reasoning would have been clearly obvious, the reasons have been stated so him just demanding a merge is a customer demanding better service.

    This is the fun thing about semantics, things can be contextually phrased as demands but in reality are requests (aka a typical customer service dialogue). "Fix my dam car right now!" The power dynamic still gives authority to the mechanic (or Nexon) to use their discretion as to whether they want to solve the issue, but they are incentivized by potentially more business. Of course Nexon doesn't owe us anything, but I can see how business-wise satisfying this many customers by providing the service of a merge would be a good idea, doesn't that seem like a easy no brainier business move to you?
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    I cant speak for any other world, as far as my gameplay, my world isn't as dead as you would think.

    As far as I'm concerned, merging all worlds into Bera wont fix the hacker/bot situation, simply because none of you have offered detailed explanation as to how it will fix it. All you guys have said is more people = more fear from bots that theyll get caught (implying they care) since they just bot to sell items or mesos), they just create new accounts. (especially if youre seen or kill in a map with bots, you run the risk of getting punished, so naturally, theres more for you to lose,t herefore, you would have to leave the map.
  • XiangTuXiangTu
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    edited July 2018
    I cant speak for any other world, as far as my gameplay, my world isn't as dead as you would think.

    As far as I'm concerned, merging all worlds into Bera wont fix the hacker/bot situation, simply because none of you have offered detailed explanation as to how it will fix it. All you guys have said is more people = more fear from bots that theyll get caught (implying they care) since they just bot to sell items or mesos), they just create new accounts. (especially if youre seen or kill in a map with bots, you run the risk of getting punished, so naturally, theres more for you to lose,t herefore, you would have to leave the map.

    No, a merge would not fix the hacker situation and i haven't seen anyone make that inference. If you can quote the comment that does infer someone believes that please show me. What the original commenter said that were discussing about hackers is

    "Too easy. Merge all the worlds with Bera, also just by saying "Just saying "merge" is not detailed", it doesn't make you right.
    We say merge because this is the only solution.
    There's no need for details, really.
    Just merge all the worlds with Bera, and of course, take care of botters/hackers as much as possible, I believe, if Nexon want to, they can easily take care of at least half of them, this is just way too easy, they just need to DO it, not talk about it, less talking, more banning. we need deeds, not words. and we need and want them now."

    I feel like he made a pretty clear distinction between the hacker problem and the merge problem. I think you confused everyone by incorrectly pointing to the wrong part of his post as being vague. "They can easily take care of at least half of them [hackers]" is vague. But again, I believe it is common sense that emphasizing personal gm bans on a wide scale would combat a significant portion of them, maybe not half, but I do not see any active enforcement from actual gms, just the automated system that is proving to be ineffective.

    And I am in windia, the '3rd most active non reboot server', and I know way too many people just because they are the only people ever around.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    They have said it would.
  • WZrkWZrk
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    edited July 2018
    -snip-

    To be honest, the problem (at least for me, but other people in this thread have had the same sentiments) is that a lot of the people arguing for a complete merge aren't really following up with anything of substance and are disregarding any other positions. Everybody and their grandparents can say that they think merging all worlds and getting rid of bots is a good solution, just as I can harp on WHO to get rid of diseases faster. It doesn't really do anything but add a vote of support for that particular opinion...which is why it's unfathomable that they can disregard other options without providing solid evidence for their own. The fact that the majority of evidence ("It's what the majority wants", "there's not enough people for multiple worlds", "I spent $10k on this game so they should listen to me", "this game is an MMORPG") provided for this opinion is not actual evidence that is relevant/can be proved by the person that said it just undermines their point.

    If you claim that getting rid of bots is easy, then you better be willing to put up the evidence yourself as to why that is, otherwise you're just backseat driving. If you think that merging all worlds is the correct and only solution, then you better be willing to prove to people why your opinion is right and everything else is wrong.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    They cant prove anything, they cant prove that a merge is the only way, they cant prove that banning bots is easy nor can they prove that one super world will deter bots from botting. Statements made from people that accuse others of creating multiple forum accounts to support their opinions. All they are - are baseless statements.

    The reality is, there's nothing more to discuss, Arwoo already said this is a popular topic and Nexon is aware of it.
  • XiangTuXiangTu
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    edited July 2018
    They cant prove anything, they cant prove that a merge is the only way, they cant prove that banning bots is easy nor can they prove that one super world will deter bots from botting. Statements made from people that accuse others of creating multiple forum accounts to support their opinions. All they are - are baseless statements.

    The reality is, there's nothing more to discuss, Arwoo already said this is a popular topic and Nexon is aware of it.

    I feel like you're missing the point. Why not have a merged world for the majority of these commenters and a small world for you and the rest? attacking the botting problem is more about the expense than it is the difficulty- hiring gms to patrol is easy but expensive. like i said, show me the person who said a super world will deter botting. these statements aren't baseless, they are the complaints and suggestions of a companies customers, that's what they should be taken as. The point isn't to prove with empirical evidence that a merge is the only way, the point is to pressure a company into initiating action on a pressing issue for many of their customers.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    because a merge wont solve more issues than itll create.

    Their main argument is that an mmorpg is required to have as many players as it can, while true, it doesn't require them to be in single world.

    As for the botting thing, they said the more players there are, the more bots are inclined to leave the map because they don't want to be caught/reported. That's what they said, so itll benefit nexon having more players in a world.

    Pressure a company? what happens if they don't give in to such tactics? > 30 people don't hold enough leverage to "pressure" a company. Instead of convincing them that a merge would be best in the long run ( I disagree) and offering evidence to support the claim, you rather choose to pressure? I don't think youre in any position to.
This discussion has been closed.