It's honestly ridiculous!
Why should we not have an option to obtain what our older characters have currently?
It makes no sense to expect us to aim for the Black Mage badge knowing darn well 99% of the player base will almost never touch that content let alone even get to 250.
The difference is that you can still reach level 275 regardless of having used 1.5x exp cards in the past, but pottable badges are completely unobtainable by new characters. Also, this thread isn’t about class-balancing, but about the imbalance between old and new characters.
Sure, I understand, but I believe that you can still enjoy the game without a pottable badge like I do. I referred to the previous comment and a keyword "advantage". I don't agree with that. Old characters would have an advantage over the new characters if they could still obtain these badges while new characters couldn't. Do you get my point?
(...) the imbalance between old and new characters.
"Imbalance" , "Advantage", whatever you call it, it is not the case. Imbalance is when one of two characters both created the same day with clean equipments can deal higher cumulative damage and level up faster that the other one. We don't compare past with present. Imagine you earned a degree from a prestigious university that doesn't exist anymore. Would you destroy your certificate because it is not in "balance" with younger people, who didn't have the opportunity to attend that university?
Most of us enjoy the game, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t point out flaws and give feedback to the developers. And most people will agree that it’s an advantage to have an unobtainable badge that can be scrolled, starforced and have potential, but you’re free to believe whatever you want.
I never wrote that you shouldn't give feedback to the developers. We're in discussion forum and it means that we exchange ideas, opinions and if you discuss with someone you try to convince him/her to your opinion. That's the whole philosophy behind a discussion. There is no need to be frustrated just because someone disagreed with you.
The difference is that you can still reach level 275 regardless of having used 1.5x exp cards in the past, but pottable badges are completely unobtainable by new characters. Also, this thread isn’t about class-balancing, but about the imbalance between old and new characters.
Sure, I understand, but I believe that you can still enjoy the game without a pottable badge like I do. I referred to the previous comment and a keyword "advantage". I don't agree with that. Old characters would have an advantage over the new characters if they could still obtain these badges while new characters couldn't. Do you get my point?
I disagree with this statement. End game parties require certain amounts of stats to join parties. If newer players are missing a pottable badge, its potentially 40%+ LESS stats, 60+ less all stats. That can amount to a several THOUSAND stat difference in end game and be the difference of someone being accepted for hard boss runs vs someone not having enough stats.
I agree that it makes a difference but the situation has both sides. There is nothing illegal in having a badge. If we remove them then the old players would feel unfair because they earned a game item and perhaps spent a nice amount of money on getting enchancements. When money is involved the problem gets complicated. Do you think that it is impossible to compensate with old players by enchancing/cubing/flaming your equipment?
If a game item is removed it usually means that it is somehow harmful to the game balance and/or game economy. Nexon had a reason to remove them.
It would be interesting to see what those players possessing a badge have to say here.
From my point of view the whole potential system is harmful, because if I think of taking away from a player a hard-earned and expensive item it sounds absurd.
OK, I came up with an idea:
What if we transfer the potential and star force enhancements into regular stats and remove % potential and enhancements, and make the badge untradeable?
Let's say a character with 1000 INT from AP has a badge with potential + 10% INT x 2 so it makes + 200 additional INT (excluding equips). We make it a regular stat and the badge gives now +200 INT. When a character levels up, he no longer receives % bonus from the badge, and he can't transfer it to lower level characters on his account so that they can benefit from large stat boost.
OK, I came up with an idea:
What if we transfer the potential and star force enhancements into regular stats and remove % potential and enhancements, and make the badge untradeable?
Let's say a character with 1000 INT from AP has a badge with potential + 10% INT x 2 so it makes + 200 additional INT (excluding equips). We make it a regular stat and the badge gives now +200 INT. When a character levels up, he no longer receives % bonus from the badge, and he can't transfer it to lower level characters on his account so that they can benefit from large stat boost.
Is it a good compromise? What do you think?
that's not how %-stat even works
and giving out flat stat to eqp would mean quite insane equip since the %-stat also counts the flat stat from items. 200 stat item would be around +1k for end game players
that's not how %-stat even works
and giving out flat stat to eqp would mean quite insane equip since the %-stat also counts the flat stat from items. 200 stat item would be around +1k for end game players
I proposed a way how to replace % potential, because it is a source of dispute with potential badges. I will write once more: calculate % based on character's stats without any equipment. It would be nice if people read other posts with understanding, otherwise this discussion makes no sense. Do you have a better idea how to deal with potential badges so that both old and new players are satisfied?
It is easy to say "remove the badges or bring them back" if you don't have a pottable badge. It shows frustration of players who don't have one.
Base stats are standard for an item and badges can't receive flames (bonus stats).
Even if they could there would only be 7 different values possible for the stats added to the badges and even if they found a way, it wouldn't solve anything.
They would still give an insane amount of stats that should never have been implemented in the first place and is out of reach of other characters.
Not only that but they would need to change %stats formula to ignore base stat on badges, which nerfs characters without pottable badges and guarantees issues down the line since the main game comes from KMS which doesn't have those badges and couldn't care less about our quick fix.
The only balanced way to go about it would be to remove their potential and issue compensation or bring them back
Coherent and convincing explanation, but it is unclear to me why they would have to touch the %stat formula? If a compensation for potentials in form of %based only on AP would still give too large boost, perhaps a better way is to calculate it based on a clean badge stat? I am writing about performing a simple calculation for those badges regardless of %stat formula. If a clean badge gives for example INT + 100 and there are 2 lines of potential with 10% INT, then after compensation it would give 120 INT. We could also add first line and then the second one (10% from 10% × 100 + 100), which gives 121 INT. I understand that it may not be so simple to replace these stats "by hand"? Or their equips with %stat cause a huge boost with badge base stats after transferring %potential? Perhaps giving them back their cubes or whatever used for enhancements would be a good compensation (but I don't think that Nexon keeps track of what players use to enhance their equips).
You may also exclude them from %stat like they were not equipped giving a constant bonus stat. I'm not sure but arcane symbols are like that aren't they?
I think the solution of either making potential and enhanceable badges available to EVERYONE or removing said badges for EVERYONE is the most viable solution. The only way to make it fair for ALL players is to ensure that everyone is able to have access to the same equipment. Having an extra item that receives potential and enhancements for some and not others seems stupid/ unfair.
Maybe Nexon should just bring back the Sengoku event with the Sengoku badge in the shop.
I think the solution of either making potential and enhanceable badges available to EVERYONE or removing said badges for EVERYONE is the most viable solution. The only way to make it fair for ALL players is to ensure that everyone is able to have access to the same equipment. Having an extra item that receives potential and enhancements for some and not others seems stupid/ unfair.
Maybe Nexon should just bring back the Sengoku event with the Sengoku badge in the shop.
Why was the Sengoku event even stopped in the first place..? GMS already broke their version with badges that were able to receive potential.
It would be the equivalent of when KMS introduced miracle enhancement scrolls. Newer players that originally did not have access to these scrolls were MUCH weaker than older players or funded players who had access to these scrolls. Eventually KMS implemented a higher starforce system to balance this imbalance out.
Why can't GMS just do the same and either make all badges have potential, introduce new badges with potential, or just copy and paste the old badges back into the game via event shops/ boss shops/ as a prize for some questline?
Why was the Sengoku event even stopped in the first place..? GMS already broke their version with badges that were able to receive potential.
Since the game is not designed with a free 33% stat and 17+ star in mind, KMS wanted them gone to maintain "balance". I can understand the reasoning but I don't understand why GMS would allow my main to keep it and force me into playing it forever or be sub-optimal.
I also don't understand how that could've been the entire argument when GMS just tried to implement a familiar system where ONE out of your THREE can singlehandedly give you 80% boss dmg or IED.
Why was the Sengoku event even stopped in the first place..? GMS already broke their version with badges that were able to receive potential.
Since the game is not designed with a free 33% stat and 17+ star in mind, KMS wanted them gone to maintain "balance". I can understand the reasoning but I don't understand why GMS would allow my main to keep it and force me into playing it forever or be sub-optimal.
I also don't understand how that could've been the entire argument when GMS just tried to implement a familiar system where ONE out of your THREE can singlehandedly give you 80% boss dmg or IED.
I feel like people still paid for those badges because it wasn't tradeable so you would still have to make it and self cube/ bpot/ enhance. Also the sengoku ones would require you to purchase nx to get enough coins so it was by no means "free" like the ghost exorcist was unless you saved coins over multiple events and did daily free tickets.
I completely agree though. They more or less "forced" us to stick with characters that have the potential badges as who would willingly sacrifice an extra 33-40%+ equip and 60-100+ main stats..?
Also, our revamped familiar system was MUCH more broken vs potential badges. It makes no sense why 30-40% and 60 stats is considered "overpowered" yet we have a system throwing out 80% boss/ ignore.. Not to mention we also have so many other pay to win broken GMS equips like a frenzy totem/ breath of divinity/ the gollux set that is a much larger disparity with potential damage that GMS has vs KMS.
It's sad that the community has to BEG for content to be put in that should never have been removed.. The imbalance between new and old players is ridiculous..
Comments
Why should we not have an option to obtain what our older characters have currently?
It makes no sense to expect us to aim for the Black Mage badge knowing darn well 99% of the player base will almost never touch that content let alone even get to 250.
Sure, I understand, but I believe that you can still enjoy the game without a pottable badge like I do. I referred to the previous comment and a keyword "advantage". I don't agree with that. Old characters would have an advantage over the new characters if they could still obtain these badges while new characters couldn't. Do you get my point?
"Imbalance" , "Advantage", whatever you call it, it is not the case. Imbalance is when one of two characters both created the same day with clean equipments can deal higher cumulative damage and level up faster that the other one. We don't compare past with present. Imagine you earned a degree from a prestigious university that doesn't exist anymore. Would you destroy your certificate because it is not in "balance" with younger people, who didn't have the opportunity to attend that university?
If a game item is removed it usually means that it is somehow harmful to the game balance and/or game economy. Nexon had a reason to remove them.
It would be interesting to see what those players possessing a badge have to say here.
From my point of view the whole potential system is harmful, because if I think of taking away from a player a hard-earned and expensive item it sounds absurd.
What if we transfer the potential and star force enhancements into regular stats and remove % potential and enhancements, and make the badge untradeable?
Let's say a character with 1000 INT from AP has a badge with potential + 10% INT x 2 so it makes + 200 additional INT (excluding equips). We make it a regular stat and the badge gives now +200 INT. When a character levels up, he no longer receives % bonus from the badge, and he can't transfer it to lower level characters on his account so that they can benefit from large stat boost.
Is it a good compromise? What do you think?
that's not how %-stat even works
and giving out flat stat to eqp would mean quite insane equip since the %-stat also counts the flat stat from items. 200 stat item would be around +1k for end game players
I proposed a way how to replace % potential, because it is a source of dispute with potential badges. I will write once more: calculate % based on character's stats without any equipment. It would be nice if people read other posts with understanding, otherwise this discussion makes no sense. Do you have a better idea how to deal with potential badges so that both old and new players are satisfied?
It is easy to say "remove the badges or bring them back" if you don't have a pottable badge. It shows frustration of players who don't have one.
Even if they could there would only be 7 different values possible for the stats added to the badges and even if they found a way, it wouldn't solve anything.
They would still give an insane amount of stats that should never have been implemented in the first place and is out of reach of other characters.
Not only that but they would need to change %stats formula to ignore base stat on badges, which nerfs characters without pottable badges and guarantees issues down the line since the main game comes from KMS which doesn't have those badges and couldn't care less about our quick fix.
The only balanced way to go about it would be to remove their potential and issue compensation or bring them back
Maybe Nexon should just bring back the Sengoku event with the Sengoku badge in the shop.
Why was the Sengoku event even stopped in the first place..? GMS already broke their version with badges that were able to receive potential.
It would be the equivalent of when KMS introduced miracle enhancement scrolls. Newer players that originally did not have access to these scrolls were MUCH weaker than older players or funded players who had access to these scrolls. Eventually KMS implemented a higher starforce system to balance this imbalance out.
Why can't GMS just do the same and either make all badges have potential, introduce new badges with potential, or just copy and paste the old badges back into the game via event shops/ boss shops/ as a prize for some questline?
Since the game is not designed with a free 33% stat and 17+ star in mind, KMS wanted them gone to maintain "balance". I can understand the reasoning but I don't understand why GMS would allow my main to keep it and force me into playing it forever or be sub-optimal.
I also don't understand how that could've been the entire argument when GMS just tried to implement a familiar system where ONE out of your THREE can singlehandedly give you 80% boss dmg or IED.
I feel like people still paid for those badges because it wasn't tradeable so you would still have to make it and self cube/ bpot/ enhance. Also the sengoku ones would require you to purchase nx to get enough coins so it was by no means "free" like the ghost exorcist was unless you saved coins over multiple events and did daily free tickets.
I completely agree though. They more or less "forced" us to stick with characters that have the potential badges as who would willingly sacrifice an extra 33-40%+ equip and 60-100+ main stats..?
Also, our revamped familiar system was MUCH more broken vs potential badges. It makes no sense why 30-40% and 60 stats is considered "overpowered" yet we have a system throwing out 80% boss/ ignore.. Not to mention we also have so many other pay to win broken GMS equips like a frenzy totem/ breath of divinity/ the gollux set that is a much larger disparity with potential damage that GMS has vs KMS.