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GMS-Raising Star Cap, Rebirth Flames & Neb Revamp?

Comments

  • PeepPeep
    Reactions: 3,950
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    Member
    edited December 2016
    You need to explain why they are wrong for not bringing it here. They think it will create a gap in the game. That gap however was created solely by MEE scrolls (Miraculous Equip Enhancement scrolls) which are now removed in KMS. This is the point you need to stress.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
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    edited April 2017
    Peep wrote: »
    You need to explain why they are wrong for not bringing it here. They think it will create a gap in the game. That gap however was created solely by MEE scrolls (Miraculous Equip Enhancement scrolls) which are now removed in KMS. This is the point you need to stress.

    To address the gap, the reason the star cap was raised to 25 was due to Miraculous Equip Enhancement Scrolls gave non-Superior equipment Superior properties (70 att Meister Ring.) I am pretty sure the Flames arrived before the introduction of MEEs. Those scrolls were obtained through Pandora's Box (KMS doesn't use Gachapon.) The new star system was designed to give items not affected by MEEs and KMS players who simply use MEEs an opportunity to gain more stat like how the MEEs did, but not to that magnitude. In KMS's star force system, the first 15 stars bonuses are the same as in GMS and most regions. Beyond 15+ stars, non-weapon items such as accessories and armors would gain attack beside that, making 50 ATT shoulders possible (and 100+ ATT Arcane Capes.) It would be a nightmare if MEEs and all Non-Tyrants had 80+ ATT. It wouldn't be dangerous to raise the star cap, but it's a safer move to introduce flames instead.

    Nebulites are not very common in terms of drop rate, and the chances of obtaining something good is very difficult whether is from finding it fresh from the box or from casual fusing. Removing the current Nebulite and replacing it with a new one shows that changing your mind costs about 500NX. The current "good nebulites" are obtained at the Gachapon for NX or cost 3b+ mesos from another player who has money to gamble. Obtain something like 3% of a stat or 25% boss shouldn't cost so much meso or NX. Some players in the black market sites mark these valuable Nebulites for as much as $10. These Nebulites require NX to obtain somehow by Gach or fusion means. I saw a video of Coppersan and KMS players obtaining flames from bosses (especially GMS's daily bosses.) An easy abundance of flames of flames and the ability to re-roll non-white-dotted items and being able to obtain a result equivalent to a decent A Nebulite is a good sign.

    Boss Flames are only effective on equipment <LVL 150 and doesn't have a white dot. The rest of items that are greater than 150 and have the white dot (items dropped after Additional Options release) are only compatible with the crafted flames. It should be easy for players to extract boss flames with an Alchemist to make these specially crafted flames. Players can extract the extra flames and sell those materials to those who are crafting with them.

    If the players who supplied the wealthy materials for a while, they can slowly afford things such as I mentioned before, those 3% Nebulites or better gear such as Tyrants. Even if Nebulites prices and supply are flawed, players would most likely make use of players with high meso consumption to afford the Nebulites in its current "flawed" state.




  • RikNLRikNL
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    edited April 2017
    Here they are. I missed them.

    vaxXy.jpg
  • KThxBaiNaoKThxBaiNao
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    edited April 2017
    Ah yes. The young necro bump.
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
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    edited April 2017
    RikNL wrote: »
    Here they are. I missed them.

    vaxXy.jpg

    latest?cb=20120324015323
  • shavitshavit
    Reactions: 1,460
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    edited June 2017
    Bring us additional options and >15 stars. We need this extra power to defeat content like Hard Lotus and Hard Lucid!
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited June 2017
    Despite the necro this is once again a current topic for discussion. We're getting content that is unchanged from kms which means we'll be unable to defeat it (ie. Hard lucid) because we're at a huge disadvantage without flames and >15 starforce.

    Nebs are not even close to being as good as flames btw, not even close.
  • IvangoldIvangold
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    edited June 2017
    Yeah, 25star would be already be great for the economy overall, making absolab eqps actually more usable.
  • xOtakuxOtaku
    Reactions: 1,355
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    Member
    edited June 2017
    If flames won't be considered, at least make nebulite dropped by something like this at a decent rate closer to flames
    -D nebulite dropped by Zakum/Hilla/Horntail
    -C nebulite dropped by Chaos horntail/Normal ark,Hard Hilla
    -B nebulite dropped by Chaos Root Abyss bosses/Hard Magnus/Chaos Zakum
    -A nebulite dropped by Lotus/Damien
    -S nebulite by Lucid/Hard Lotus/Hard Damien
    Add a new tier of nebulite called SS dropped by Hard Lucid and harder bosses when it's out
    And include B+ nebulite in event shops like flames
    Also, Nebulite boxes don't even drop in the new areas like scrapyard, dark world tree and arcane river.
    SlicedTimeshavitManiOh
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited June 2017
    They could just redesign nebulites to be less terrible, if they really think they're equivalent to flames.

    Everyone will be upset at first but it might not be so bad if we got S nebs. I would suggest increasing the % on stat nebs and removing the "lower tier" within the same letter tier.

    Specifically this would mean no more 3% nebs and 20% boss, as an example.

    The should cost mesos only to fuse (it can even be a high amount) and they'd need to have realistic tier up rates. Probably just remove D nebs unless combining D becomes 100% chance of C.

    ...and many more suggestions that would help nebs be less trash. Like every event kms gets flames in the shops. If nebs are equal where are our event shop guaranteed B nebs or something similar?
    SlicedTime
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
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    edited June 2017
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    They could just redesign nebulites to be less terrible, if they really think they're equivalent to flames.

    Everyone will be upset at first but it might not be so bad if we got S nebs. I would suggest increasing the % on stat nebs and removing the "lower tier" within the same letter tier.

    Specifically this would mean no more 3% nebs and 20% boss, as an example.

    The should cost mesos only to fuse (it can even be a high amount) and they'd need to have realistic tier up rates. Probably just remove D nebs unless combining D becomes 100% chance of C.

    ...and many more suggestions that would help nebs be less trash. Like every event kms gets flames in the shops. If nebs are equal where are our event shop guaranteed B nebs or something similar?

    They could also remove some of the worthless D Nebs (Im looking at you, 10% face expression...)
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited July 2017
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    They could just redesign nebulites to be less terrible, if they really think they're equivalent to flames.

    Everyone will be upset at first but it might not be so bad if we got S nebs. I would suggest increasing the % on stat nebs and removing the "lower tier" within the same letter tier.

    Specifically this would mean no more 3% nebs and 20% boss, as an example.

    The should cost mesos only to fuse (it can even be a high amount) and they'd need to have realistic tier up rates. Probably just remove D nebs unless combining D becomes 100% chance of C.

    ...and many more suggestions that would help nebs be less trash. Like every event kms gets flames in the shops. If nebs are equal where are our event shop guaranteed B nebs or something similar?

    Another turn off about Nebulites aside from how uncommon they are is that occupy the Setup Tab which is where we collect our precious chairs.

    Why can't all there be a pile of A Nebs, B Nebs, C and D Nebs so you only have to worry about 4 stacks? Identical Nebulites are the only things that stack. An A 4% Stat and an A 3% will each be treated as two separate piles despite having the same rank. That is a problem that most chair collectors will face when they collect Nebulites.

    Aside from Nebulite stat reorganizing, the storage issue will have be addressed.


    A lot of content since the RED Update has not been used because Additional Options were not implemented. Level 11+ Accessory were suppose to be able to craft Red Rebirth Flames and Rainbow Rebirth similar to how Blacksmiths could make Master and Meisters. I haven't seen any Alchemists set up a Scroll Extractor to extract scrolls and boss flames (WTF is a scroll extractor?) Without flames, most people are Blacksmiths due to Meister Accessories being overpowered by Gollux and Accessory Crafting doesn't offer any other advantages.

    Some shops such as Dojo and the Legion Shop give the player access to Red Powerful Flames of Rebirth. Event shops will feature Powerful Flames as well as the Eternal Flames. Reboot would also have access to Powerful Flames for 9 million mesos.
    reboot-world-potion-shop.png
    bm3otzolp5sy.png
    z3ssJG8.jpg


    RED was also suppose to offer us more crafting materials to make cubes, extractors, bags, potions and flames (we don't have flames.) Spell essence were a component to making Eternal and Powerful flames. Once again, unless flames are implemented, Spell Essence will be useless even though they are part of the "inferior" Meister equipment.

    Someone also graciously donated me this image from their adventures in KMS.
    .eJwNyEsOhCAMANC7cABKh2-8DUGCRm0J1MzCzN3Ht3yPusepFrWJ9LkArPssPFY9hUduVTfmdtbc96kLX5BFctmuSjLBfkxEb10I6E10CcNbaFOwPppoESMmBzcdxF_SnZr6_QEFMCLP.VjjmV540_1I2tIrQmyQjD4CoZ9g?width=965&height=561

    Even without applying modifications, new items after the change (hopefully) will drop will with some nice bonuses. It can be useful for training low level characters and unfunded characters before applying potential or other scroll enhancements Our current items without AO easily become be enhanced by killing the boss that drops that flame.

    EXAMPLE: People with Condensed Power Crystals can get stats on their item by killing Zakum and using his flame, but new Power Crystals dropped by Zakum will come with additional stats.


    I am hoping flames can come so we fully utilize what came in the RED update as well as adding items that can benefit players whether is it is training or getting stronger.


    If we are suggesting Nebulite ideas, can we do it in a different thread?
    SlicedTimeDoKingshavitIvangold
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited June 2017
    that's true, if nebs are supposed to be our equivalent to flames maybe accessory crafting should be able to make random B nebs with a chance of it being A


    edit: also nebs should probably be moved to the use tab
    JettLuvsUSlicedTimeDoKingIvangold
  • forumsareannoyingforumsareannoying
    Reactions: 2,815
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    edited June 2017
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    that's true, if nebs are supposed to be our equivalent to flames maybe accessory crafting should be able to make random B nebs with a chance of it being A


    edit: also nebs should probably be moved to the use tab

    Nebs should also be FREE. It's currently impossible to make your own A neb without spending $. There is no way. You can't fuse B nebs because you would need nx to buy the premium fusion tickets.

    It's been so long now that I just assume Nexon does not give a sht about Nebulites or whether or not we get additional options/flames of rebirth. They want us to spend more $ to cube 36% main pot, 21% bonus pot on all our equips. Only way to defeat hard lotus/damien/lucid.
    ManiOh
  • OkhuraOkhura
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited June 2017
    Just want to add a note that in EMS we didn't have craftable flames when we could flame items.
  • GoldAdventurerGoldAdventurer
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    edited June 2017
    I found that the following services support Flames of Rebirth and bonus options:
    KMS
    MapleSEA (same system was in EMS)
    TMS (Taiwan)

    The following services currently does not support this (or deactivated):
    GMS
    JMS (Japan)
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,805
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    edited June 2017
    I found that the following services support Flames of Rebirth and bonus options:
    KMS
    MapleSEA (same system was in EMS)
    TMS (Taiwan)

    The following services currently does not support this (or deactivated):
    GMS
    JMS (Japan)

    Thanks for stating that out, GoldAventurer.

    Flames cannot be used on rings, shoulders or secondary (not sure if it applies to Kataras well.)
  • DoKingDoKing
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    edited June 2017
    This thread may have been revived by a few individuals, but I think it is due time for a reassessment on the stance of the players as well as a re-evaluation of the Flame and 25 Star systems. Nebulites are have been around for an exceptionally long time and in the past their stats (as well as some other content like Gollux) have allowed players to tackle the same content as KMS to similar levels of success.

    However, with the introduction of 5th job and Arcane river content, the disparity between the strongest KMS players and the strongest GMS players is becoming more and more clear, keep in mind that their potentials are of the same quality (5-6 suitable lines). This suggests that even with content such as nebulites, gollux, totems, crusader codex and badges with potential stats we may not be able to reach the same heights as the KMS players. I think it will be appropriate to wait and observe how the Lucid teams in GMS NA and LUNA (the Europe server with carried over flame stats on some equipment) tackle Hard Lucid in the coming months. (OR better yet, invite the strongest GMS LUNA and GMS NA players to have a crack at Hard Lucid in a test server)

    As of current, GMS Luna is the server with the most potential (and stats) to take down Hard Lucid, having a fusion of both Nebulites and Flames (additional options) on gear made prior to the merge. I have doubts that the North America based servers will be able to. If Luna is able to succeed where NA has failed, it may be appropriate to adopt a hybrid approach wherein both nebulites and flames (additional options can coexist) . As I am aware, the previous EMS (LUNA) flames were not as strong as their KMS counterparts and thus Nebulites can retain relevancy in the GMS environment (making up the status gap between KMS and former EMS flames in the form of primarily paid content. )

    With respect to early and mid game progression, I remember fondly of a time when items would drop with an extra amount of stats (and sometimes less stats). I.e. I would find a dagger with an additional 4 atk and 3 Luk. There was an allure to hunting for dropped equips and checking each and every one of their stats. Flames/Additional options appear to have been the descendent of this system. The system has a lot of promise, it keeps gearing progression a lot fresher than it is right now and it may serve to attract and keep players hooked for longer.

    As of right now:
    1) Cubing is relatively inaccessible for newer and casual players (for the sake of argument, Reboot meso farming is outside of this definition), and the odd 1-2 master craftsman cubes you may get from elite boss rare chests will not yield any major results given their low (but fair) rates. Purchase of cubes via NX is the paid option but you would be hard pressed to find many new casual players spending upwards of 50 dollars rolling cubes especially when that's almost the price of a full AAA title game on an item that they aren't really invested in.

    2) Nebulites that give meaningful stat increases are quite expensive and in high demand which serves to drive that price up. They are also relatively short in supply as a significant portion come from paid content such as Marvel Machine, Gachapon and Philosopher books. Again not many new casual players will fork out upwards of 50 dollars for a chance at the nebulites with meaningful stats.

    3) Spell tracing equips require some resource collection (in the form of mesos to buy spell traces or the traces themselves)

    Flames/Additional options can serve as a catalyst to convincing players to invest into certain equips over others. This is because these equips don't come "just like any other", they have their own value and uniqueness to them upon first encountering them. Once a player has found a particular flamed equip they like, be it having extra weapon atk/magic atk or primary stats, there is greater fixation for investing in that particular equip. There is a better connection between the player and the equip (I admit this, I can't let go or abandon some gear that has been with me for a long time and I still to this day upgrade them when I feel they need one) . When it comes to making gear today, since all the equips come exactly the same, they are not as "special" and can be easily replaced prior to any significant investment. Equipment is made special via the usage of cubes, nebulites and scrolling but this is too much of an investment for the casual starting out.

    By having flames/additional options, equips can be their own kind of special prior to cubes, nebulites and scrolling. And can serve as a little kick for newer players to pursue the newer advertised content. A core problem that a number of friends who tried returning to the game during the 5th Job patch was that none of them got to experience this "new awesome content" soon enough. By the time they reached 5th job, their numbers had thinned and those that remained were so focused on how to make their next meso pay cheque that the 5th Job hype was swept completely under the rug. If they had access to additional options/flames, their progress would have been more enjoyable.

    Tradeable flames can also serve as another commodity in the marketplace which players can buy and sell to fuel their progression in the game.

    Pardon the incoherence/repetition in some parts, what I'm trying to get at is the hype and lure from patches such as V and Override are good for pulling players in, but player retention from the hype could be improved and I think Additional Options/ Flames can help with this. I.e the bait looks good, the hook is somewhat rusted.

    I look forward to see what other comments and perspectives have to offer on this topic. And hope to reach a resolution that is both favourable to the players as well as the state of the game and company.


    DaxterbeerSlicedTimeshavitGoldAdventurer
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited June 2017
    I just wish they'd tell us why or actually discuss these decisions with players.

    But you know it's nexon so your suggestions go into the void and some strange masked create says ye or nay and we only find out when it's implemented.

    Just to be 100% clear I am most interested in the reasons why we don't have this system.
  • shavitshavit
    Reactions: 1,460
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    edited June 2017
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    I just wish they'd tell us why or actually discuss these decisions with players.

    But you know it's nexon so your suggestions go into the void and some strange masked create says ye or nay and we only find out when it's implemented.

    Just to be 100% clear I am most interested in the reasons why we don't have this system.

    There shouldn't be a reason behind it. If Nexon thinks it's less profitable than nebulites, why not just let us have both? And implement the Maple Points enhancements system that TMS has to profit even more while still giving the community what they want.