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StarryKnight

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StarryKnight
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  • Fixing the time-gate of arcane river dailies.

    JushiroNet wrote: »
    We had the ability to farm them at our pace and nexon told us to get stuffed. "Tune up" indeed.

    I mean, to be fair, that is probably the easiest solution. Just go back to the drop rates of yester-years where we could max a symbol in just a couple months of farming. I'd be ok with that too.

    No matter the solution, the fact is that locking progression behind an entire year of dailies, for *each* character, is frustrating. Worse than that, its the same dailies... fourty years of doing spirit saver and dream defender is not a reasonable expectation of players.
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    It won't.
    *sigh*

    Yeah, you're probably right.
    darik
  • Fixing the time-gate of arcane river dailies.

    (for a tl;dr just read the bolded portion.)

    It’s safe to say that diversity is not a problem in Maple. There are over 40 playable classes, and multiple play styles for each of those classes (mobbing vs bossing). I have to give credit where credit is due, there is a *lot* of stuff to learn, about a lot of different characters.

    However, there is a systemic problem with maple that can’t be overlooked. Maple is built around a system that undermines it’s own diversity by preventing people from achieving mid-late game on more than a few characters. People are incentivized and rewarded for leveling mules and alts (eg. Legion, link skills, etc), only to be dissuaded from playing those characters for a significant amount of time by crippling their ability to progress by putting real progress behind a year of arcane river dailies.

    I would put forward that most characters don’t really shine until well after fourth job, and for some,not until after 5th job, and I don’t believe you can *really* appreciate a character until playing it becomes almost second nature.

    Yet, there are characters I’ve played, and really enjoy playing, but I will never know if I would have preferred them as a main, because I simply don’t have enough time to play them due to time-investment required.

    There are many different reasons for this, but the primary one I would focus on I mentioned above, arcane symbols via arcane river dailies.

    The fact is, it takes about a year to max all the arcane symbols, per character. That's over 13k worth of stat locked away behind a year of dailies. On average it takes at least a half an hour every day for just arcane river dailies, and that’s with the first several regions only needing the first task completed and autofulfilling the rest.

    Focusing on a single character at a time, it would take 40+ years to max arcane symbols on every playable class.

    My suggestion is that after a given arcane symbol is maxed on one character, other characters in the same world receive 4x arcane daily rewards for the region where the previous character has a maxed symbol. Assuming six maxed symbols on one character, this would reduce the time required for leveling symbols on alts from a year, to about three months, which I think most people would consider far more reasonable.

    If you think a character hasn’t earned the right to receive 4x rewards upon reaching VJ, you could prevent this bonus from initiating until either all six arcane symbols have been attained on that character, or until the following regions quest line has been completed (i.e. begin receiving 4x rewards for VJ after ChuChu quest line has been completed, and receive 4x ChuChu rewards after the Lach quest line has been completed, etc etc).

    The fact is, we did our time. We spent over a year doing the same task every single day, I don't feel that we should be obligated to start that same procedure over every single time a new class comes out or we decide we want to try a new character. We already have a huge commitment ahead of us in terms of farming nodestones, droplets and meso for cubes and starforce, why obligate us to do another year of the same old dailies on top of this for our second or third mains? Plus, another entire year of DD or SS for each character is almost a punishment for leveling another character, not a reward for our continued dedication and support.

    Sometimes we only continue to play the main we currently have precisely because we’ve already invested in so much time into the character and dailies, and while we would like to try another class that we were turned onto, starting from scratch with another year of dailies is a mental and physical roadblock that often dissuades us from playing a different class for any significant amount of time. It’s frustrating to want to try a new class, but be overwhelmed from the amount of time required to really enjoy that character. But if we stuck it out, and finished maxing the symbols on our first character, getting the next character done in a few months seems more reasonable than abandoning our current character and starting anew.

    Honestly, I think the above is the best possible solution, in that it seems fair to both players and to Nexon/Maplestory, where it still requires a significant investment of time and effort, but rewards players who’ve already invested that time on one character, by reducing the time needed to do the same on subsequent characters. I would even support higher bonuses for each character who's reached maxed symbols (4x for one maxed symbol, 6x for two maxed symbols for the same reigon, 8x/cap for three or more...).

    An alternative to this would be to make Arcane symbols an account wide system such as legion, and when dailies are completed, on any character, it benefits all characters on the same world. I like this idea too, but it seemed to favor the player over maplestory/nexon.

    This is an issue near and dear to my heart, so hopefully it garners some consideration from Nexon.
    darik
  • Flames from bosses and elites drop less often?

    Yeah, I think everyone's noticed this by now. A lot of people said it was just our imaginations, but I don't think there was much doubt after this much time. There was a mention in a post a while back about them 'looking into it', but I don't recall them ever confirming the issue. When they did the patch, they mostly used the code from KMS, and the drop rate for flames and the like is much lower, and while they recently buffed the drops in Korea, their buffed rate was significantly less than the GMS rate. Whether Nexon intends to "fix" this issue I couldn't say. It's funny because it wasn't that long ago when Nexon had boosted our rates prior to the patch (a few months ago, six at the most). Then came the patch and our drop rate is significantly nerfed just months after it being significantly buffed.

    That's the way of things I expect. This entire patch has been very rough in terms of execution, communication, reception, and restitution (for all the down time, errors, mistakes and lost time).

    I guess at this point we just wait and see what happens.
    darikFuhreak
  • Suicide Kanna Issues

    HHG1 wrote: »
    I do see your point and I agree that Nexon needs to adjust something. But that is not to remove the autoban and cater to every new meta through every new "loophole" players find. But to abolish the widespread meta as it involves abusing a system that wasn't intended to be used to stay at a lower level. Removing the exp loss or setting a limit to how much exp you can lose per level would accomplish this. You wouldn't even need the autoban at that point since bots wouldn't have a reason to suicide either.

    I get what you're saying, but lets consider something else, like HP Washing. Clearly that was never an "intended" method of gameplay, but it was never penalized or dissuaded by Nexon. Perhaps because it made Nexon plenty of money? I don't recall anyone ever being banned for HP Washing, so it must be the case that being an "unintended method of gameplay" is not, itself, a valid reason to ban people. So why is suicide? Because hackers do it too? Sure, ok, but they HP Washed as well. So it being something that hackers "also" do is likewise not itself a justifiable reason to ban someone.

    As for the constantly evolving meta, I would argue that Nexon doesn't get to choose "how" the game is played, that's really up to the players. Nexon's job is to provide boundaries, create an enjoyable experience and protect its customers. What (legitimate) players do within those boundaries should simply be accepted by Nexon. If Nexon cannot accept those actions, then the boundaries need to be redefined, by modifying the code such that that a player is obligated to follow the desired path or otherwise unable to follow a different one. Leaving people the freedom to play a different way and then banning them for doing so is just bad form. Obligations to play the game in a certain way should always be programmed into the game, and never simply "expected" as a matter of "intention", that would be a recipe for player dissatisfaction.

    Keep in mind also that a vast majority of players will never reach the level cap, and so in that way I could say that nearly everyone plays the game at "a lower level than what the game intends you to achieve". So simply saying that the intention is to level doesn't really capture the essence of the game. The goal of the game is to bring enjoyment to the players and make a profit doing it.

    HHG1 wrote: »
    Along with the reasons stated in my previous post, I believe it's entirely fair to assume that losing exp when dying was never intended to be used in this way, bots or not. Yes, losing exp is the intended function after dying, but we're talking about intended use of the function. Not the function itself.
    The core goal of the game is to gain exp, level up, move on and get stronger as a result. You are rewarded for this at every turn. There are skills and items to prevent death and exp loss, there are attributes to decrease exp loss upon death. Everything in the game encourages you to gain exp and try not to die. Exp loss is there to make you stay on your toes (and for Nexon to sell charms).

    Game designers aren't the one s who make the game popular or profitable, players are. The success of a game/company is dependent upon player support and satisfaction, and so I would say that player satisfaction should be the core goal of the company and the game, not leveling, and not getting stronger. In fact, I would argue that those are entirely optional. Case in point, some people played the game almost exclusively for the community and social benefits, with no real intention to reach end-game. Should they be banned for not following the designers "intended" gameplay? Ofc not.

    Thus the goal is to provide players an environment where they can express themselves in whatever manner they so choose, and while Nexon is free to foster an environment where leveling and getting stronger is *encouraged*, it should never be expected or otherwise mandatory, except when the intended goals of the *player* require it. I.E. If someone wants to solo chaos pap, being a henehoe would not be a productive method towards accomplishing that goal.

    Penalizing people for not following a linear path is counterproductive to player satisfaction, and so long as people do not manipulate the game to circumvent the defined boundaries, they should not be penalized for whatever actions they take, especially when those actions are within the confines of normal gameplay.

    HHG1 wrote: »
    I absolutely agree that something more clear-cut should be done if players fail to understand Nexons intentions even with all the evidence pointing right to it. It's just unfortunate that it has to come to that with literally everything.

    Until Nexon publishes a game play manual, or codes those limitations into the game directly, I would say that Nexon's "intentions" are largely irrelevant.

    There have been *many* occasions where player outrage or support have shaped the way the game has developed, or helped direct what actions Nexon took with respect to some event or aspect of the game play, and that's the way it should be. A company that ignores its player base tends to be a doomed company.

    It might be the case that Nexon despises suicide Kanna's, but only tolerates them because so much of the player base uses one as a method of farming. But, the fault of that falls to Nexon, because until a player reaches the point where they can farm on a main, in places like Arcana, there are little to no other options for making sufficient meso to progress at a reasonable rate. No one is going to take the least efficient method of progression over the most efficient method simply because Nexon would prefer you choose the less efficient method.

    Even with a suicide kanna farming at bye bye, a person could literally farm for 8 hours straight, and then lose all that money trying to starforce their equipment and ultimately end up worse than where they started. I know because it's happened to me many times. For example: I spent over 4 billion meso's in reboot attempting to 17 star a meister ring, starting at 15 stars and ending at 15 stars. That's an entire day of farming, for nothing. I accept it because that's just the nature of RNG, but at the same time, I would hate to imagine how much time I would have spent farming to get the same meso using some method *other* than a suicide kanna, only to have it be a complete waste of time because I got unlucky with the RNG.

    Nexon *could* have a system where the success chance on staforce increased by 2% every time you failed, and went down by 2% every time you succeeded (down to the base minimum), so if you succeeded15->16,. but then failed 16->17, your percentage for the next 16->17 attempt would be 32% instead of 30%, and so on, increasing up to, say, a 50% chance. A system like that would reduce the need for a suicide kanna, because it would reduce the amount of time spent farming by reducing the amount of money needed to progress, but that's a different topic altogether.

    HHG1 wrote: »
    That's unrelated hyperbole and you know it.

    Oh, It's absolutely hyperbole, but I disagree that it's unrelated. In parallel terms, How many permanent bans given to legitimate players is an acceptable margin of error when it comes to system meant to deter hacking? I say none, but I realize that's a bit idealistic.

    Some players, particularly the young, might quit the game after a false ban, others might not want to go through a lengthy appeals process from a company that seems to have betrayed them or otherwise appears incompetent in their ability to differentiate between cheaters and legitimate players, and then there are players who've spent considerable time or money on their character, to which a ban like that might be devastating. In the long run, bans that result in player abandonment is only a bit of lost revenue for Nexon, but so long as they are still making money is it really not worth it to fix the problem?

    Why have a better system?

    Because its better. Isn't that reason enough?
    Pride
  • Suicide Kanna Issues

    HHG1 wrote: »
    iirc the suicide autoban predates reboot kanna farming meta because bots used it way before they did. Suicide abuse by other players to fit a made-up meta isn't a legitimate reason to get rid of a bot deterrent. Do it slower to avoid detection or don't do it at all.
    Removing the exp loss entirely would in a way solve both those problems, but should they really have to tweak the game more for people to play it as intended?

    But that's just it. Bots are far more sophisticated than they were four plus years ago when this 'deterrent' was implemented. It's highly unlikely that modern bots do not account for this and will simply delay the auto-death process to avoid detection, meaning that Nexon still using this as a method of bot detection is, well, obsolete. Especially when confronted with the fact that the meta changed, and Nexon did not adjust to the new meta or develop their own more sophisticated methods of bot detection. Its a simple matter of Nexon not changing with the times. Nexon knowingly left a mechanism that it clearly accepts will and does ban legitimate players without just reason or cause, leading to a poor customer experience for those players, who are simply trying to make efficient use of their time and maximize their farming throughput.

    Further, the entire idea that the game is "intended" to be played a certain way is a flawed argument. Did Nexon intend for EXP to be lost upon death? Yes, therefore someone dying and losing exp is an outcome that Nexon intended to happen. There is no rule saying that one cannot die intentionally, thus no valid arguement to claim that dying purposely contradicts the games "intended" gameplay. At worst you can argue that it exploits an intended outcome to ones own benefit, but then that is true for every trick that makes playing the game easier. An example, if you suicide in chaos pierre to get rid of the colored hat allowing you to hit both red and blue hat Pierre in order to solo... technically "not the intended method of defeating that boss", but its the current meta when you fail to no-split. There's countless examples like this, and none of them are against the rules, so the argument that it doesnt follow the "intended method of gameplay" is a vague and nebulous way of avoiding responsibility and failing to addressing the problem.

    If they are going to tell us that the solution is to wait a minimum amount of time before dying again, then what's that minimum time? Should we count to three, five, ten, thirty? Not telling us is the same as saying "I know you can't see or hear it coming, but if you cross this road too soon, one of my drivers will come out of nowhere and hit you, but I refuse to tell you how long to wait before you cross it, even though I know precisely how long you should wait before crossing... "

    You could claim that they can't tell us because then the botters would know too, but they already know, even if its by a consequence of trial and error. Its the legitimate players who are suffering from these 'deterrents'. Botters will just make another account and increase the auto-death delay timer, they don't lose anything when they get banned, just a few hours of their computers time. Legitimate players, on the other hand, stand to lose thousands of hours of time invested in a single character.

    Would you also claim that a certain number of innocent people getting the death penalty is acceptable because the death penalty is a "deterrent" for violent crime? Exactly how many innocent people getting the death penalty is an "acceptable margin of error"?
    SlicedTimePenguinz0ShippouPrideWONDERGUY