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Thoughts on Kanna and Fury Totem Changes

pokelord223pokelord223
Reactions: 915
Posts: 4
Member, Private Tester
edited May 2020 in General Chat
In response to the proposed changes set forward by Anna in the recent maple memo, here are some thoughts on the issue as a Reboot player.
While we appreciate the transparency and forewarning for these changes, many players immediate reaction is worry that this is yet another attempt to discourage reboot players from acquiring mesos and training at reasonable rates compared to before. I specify reboot in particular because non-reboot servers have access to Frenzy totem, which notably was not adjusted in this balancing change. While we understand the effort is to reduce the gap in hunting efficiency over time with those who have and don't have kishin, this change does not solve the fundamental issue, as people with access to a friend or 2nd computer to kishin themselves are still at an enormous advantage compared to those without. However, that does not mean we should punish people with access to kishin, and should instead try to make the effect as accessible as possible for players to utilize.

Players have adapted and feel that the current kishin spawn rate is good and greatly improves the flow of gameplay. Waiting for monsters to respawn on the map is dull, and isn't enjoyable for anyone. For this reason the 'kishin' effect should be made more accessible. The proposed 10% off change to fury (now wild ) totems is a step in the right direction, but it is simply not enough. If the developers feel that Kanna is too over-centralizing, fury totems need to be unlimited and cost efficient to use, to incentivize their use over kishin. I say unlimited because 15 a month is simply not enough for serious players to play as much as they want to with the better spawn rates. In addition, while the aforementioned 10% off change is appreciated, it doesn't go far enough to solve the issue. I would propose the new totem costs 250 reward points, as even 1800 is still too expensive for most players. At 250 reward points, it is cheap enough for players to get at all progression levels, and would encourage people to boss more and party up to take on more bosses for more reward points.

I again emphasize that the 10% reduction in spawn has the right idea but is ultimately a purely detrimental change, as the kishin effect is still strong and needed in the game (and it should be kept, because it makes GMS unique!) People like how GMS differs itself from other regions with the increased spawn, and this change is a step in the wrong direction to what many feel is essential to GMS' identity. If however the 10% change is still deemed necessary despite all that I have negatives outlined, we would ask for one or several of the following as compensation:

1) Increase the Reboot Meso Passive: The most simple change; this would ensure the spawn change does not have harmful effects in meso income.
2) Decrease star force costs: GMS already has higher star force costs than other regions and this change would help make it so that the reduced meso income is less taxing on progression.
3) Decrease cube costs in the cash shop: Same idea as the star force cost reduction.
4) Increase amount of mesos obtained from Ursus / Maple Tour / Boss crystals: These alternative popular meso methods could be increased to compensate for the lost meso rates overall when training.
5) Increase experience gained from mobs: Unrelated to meso, decreasing kishin harms the Experience rates as players clear maps, and so increased experience can server to counterbalance this nerf.

Any of these changes would go a long way as reparations for this change, as it is detrimental to the quality of life and progression of the reboot server, which many maplers enjoy and have spent alot of time and money in. We want Maplestory to be the best it can be and feel that these changes are detrimental to progression and gameplay, and would like to see them re-examined with the response of the reboot community in mind.
bazzyLuminous0014darikZerosBlackArlongCutieMikuVyrtaeNebulShaderclouseFibsand 1 other.

Comments

  • AllowedAllowed
    Reactions: 840
    Posts: 82
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Seriously you nerf kishin(again) and fury totem but not frenzy totem? the gap between kishin/fury and frenzy totem leveling efficiency gap will become bigger and bigger..

    This change is very bad and idiotic.
  • VyrtaeVyrtae
    Reactions: 875
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited May 2020
    I have never seen a company being THIS out of touch with their playerbase
    WONDERGUYProphetiebazzySlicedTimedarikNebulHowDidIKnowmagnetomasteTurtlesRock
  • bazzybazzy
    Reactions: 1,525
    Posts: 71
    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2020
    I appreciate the Maple Memo but jesus christ why are you nerfing our kishin/fury rates. Reboot players lose out on 20% of their EXP and meso gain. This is pretty unfair and bad change by Nexon. New players that are trying to progress also have a harder time catching up to veterans now and this change benefits nobody.
    zmintdarik
  • ThatRandomShadeThatRandomShade
    Reactions: 1,250
    Posts: 67
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Even worse is that it might hurt our rates even more than just 20%, considering it will have a much larger cooldown now (most likely not having 100% uptime) and the only way to increase it is with another skill (probably not giving it 100% uptime either), time to start buying totems on kanna lul
    darik
  • iArrowZiArrowZ
    Reactions: 1,710
    Posts: 159
    Member
    edited May 2020
    can anyone please apply to whatever her job is LOL. we need new management..

    where is the karens when you need them..
    darik
  • iArrowZiArrowZ
    Reactions: 1,710
    Posts: 159
    Member
    edited May 2020
    they clearly want us being slaves to fz owners.
    WONDERGUYdarik
  • VyrtaeVyrtae
    Reactions: 875
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited May 2020
    The main purpose of these changes is to reduce the gap in efficiency between classes in a way that highlights the playing style of each class.
    How exactly is Nexon going to reduce the gap between class efficiency when they nerf not just kishin, but also totems? Do they even know what they are saying at all?
    WONDERGUYzmintHHG1SlicedTimedarikNebul
  • YacyYacy
    Reactions: 1,565
    Posts: 128
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Hello,

    Please completely remove the spawn rate increase from Kanna's Kishing skill.

    Make Arcana and above maps spawn rate INCREASE, instead.

    - Making another account to level up to 225 a Kanna to Kish yourself with 2 PC is ridiculous.
    - Farming 15* gears, 2 lines % gears, and 100% mesos gears on a Kanna in your account. Doing all Arcana pre-quests and dailies again. Ridiculous.
    - Training/farming mesos only when you have enough RP for totems. Ridiculous.

    When I farm at CLP on my main (100% drop gears) without a Kanna. I barely make 100m an hour. That's one 17*->18* try. One try per hour of farming.

    Now with the June 10th notice. You inform us that you're making changes to Kanna and totem. Only, it's not the change we want/expected!

    The current game design is ridiculous. Make us able to farm in our main. Make Kanna a normal mage main.
    darikFuhreakZerosBlackHowDidIKnow
  • JelaniJelani
    Reactions: 475
    Posts: 25
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Be honest with us, please. Are you nerfing kishin and fury totems because you don't make enough money from GMS to justify getting better servers? Is that also why you nerfed kishin the last time? People will play the meta regardless of the state if the game, so what purpose do you have to continue to try and change it? Nerfing these things would only make everything worse for you and the players imo. Tell me I'm wrong if I'm wrong.
    darik
  • iArrowZiArrowZ
    Reactions: 1,710
    Posts: 159
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Vyrtae wrote: »
    The main purpose of these changes is to reduce the gap in efficiency between classes in a way that highlights the playing style of each class.
    How exactly is Nexon going to reduce the gap between class efficiency when they nerf not just kishin, but also totems? Do they even know what they are saying at all?

    don't worry at least we have crappy familar drop rates to look forward too *cringe*
    WONDERGUY
  • AllowedAllowed
    Reactions: 840
    Posts: 82
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Vyrtae wrote: »
    The main purpose of these changes is to reduce the gap in efficiency between classes in a way that highlights the playing style of each class.
    How exactly is Nexon going to reduce the gap between class efficiency when they nerf not just kishin, but also totems? Do they even know what they are saying at all?

    Lol the only totem they are nerfing(replacing) is fury but no changes to frenzy tho.
    WONDERGUY
  • bazzybazzy
    Reactions: 1,525
    Posts: 71
    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2020
    iArrowZ wrote: »
    can anyone please apply to whatever her job is LOL. we need new management..

    where is the karens when you need them..

    Well, Anna isn't really at fault, she's just the one that delivers news and takes the hits. All updates come from Korea and are approved by Korea before they are sent to GMS. Screw the developers lol.
  • iArrowZiArrowZ
    Reactions: 1,710
    Posts: 159
    Member
    edited May 2020
    bazzy wrote: »
    iArrowZ wrote: »
    can anyone please apply to whatever her job is LOL. we need new management..

    where is the karens when you need them..

    Well, Anna isn't really at fault, she's just the one that delivers news and takes the hits. All updates come from Korea and are approved by Korea before they are sent to GMS. Screw the developers lol.

    actually i was just told on reddit otherwise. " she is our producer, not community manager. she has direct input on the changes to our game"
  • ProphetieProphetie
    Reactions: 915
    Posts: 82
    Member
    edited May 2020
    I couldn't agree more
    If I understand correctly, this make us rely even more on Kanna farmers because having someone kish your map will result in less uptime than actively playing as a Kanna.
    There's also a bunch of buffs to Kanna's dmg output and bossing abilities which I don't understand. If the goal is to promote class diversity, why buff the best support, utility, farmer and to some extent bossing class (as far as parties are concerned)?
  • YacyYacy
    Reactions: 1,565
    Posts: 128
    Member
    edited May 2020
    In response to the proposed changes set forward by Anna in the recent maple memo, here are some thoughts on the issue as a Reboot player.
    While we appreciate the transparency and forewarning for these changes, many players immediate reaction is worry that this is yet another attempt to discourage reboot players from acquiring mesos and training at reasonable rates compared to before. I specify reboot in particular because non-reboot servers have access to Frenzy totem, which notably was not adjusted in this balancing change. While we understand the effort is to reduce the gap in hunting efficiency over time with those who have and don't have kishin, this change does not solve the fundamental issue, as people with access to a friend or 2nd computer to kishin themselves are still at an enormous advantage compared to those without. However, that does not mean we should punish people with access to kishin, and should instead try to make the effect as accessible as possible for players to utilize.

    Players have adapted and feel that the current kishin spawn rate is good and greatly improves the flow of gameplay. Waiting for monsters to respawn on the map is dull, and isn't enjoyable for anyone. For this reason the 'kishin' effect should be made more accessible. The proposed 10% off change to fury (now wild ) totems is a step in the right direction, but it is simply not enough. If the developers feel that Kanna is too over-centralizing, fury totems need to be unlimited and cost efficient to use, to incentivize their use over kishin. I say unlimited because 15 a month is simply not enough for serious players to play as much as they want to with the better spawn rates. In addition, while the aforementioned 10% off change is appreciated, it doesn't go far enough to solve the issue. I would propose the new totem costs 250 reward points, as even 1800 is still too expensive for most players. At 250 reward points, it is cheap enough for players to get at all progression levels, and would encourage people to boss more and party up to take on more bosses for more reward points.

    I again emphasize that the 10% reduction in spawn has the right idea but is ultimately a purely detrimental change, as the kishin effect is still strong and needed in the game (and it should be kept, because it makes GMS unique!) People like how GMS differs itself from other regions with the increased spawn, and this change is a step in the wrong direction to what many feel is essential to GMS' identity. If however the 10% change is still deemed necessary despite all that I have negatives outlined, we would ask for one or several of the following as compensation:

    1) Increase the Reboot Meso Passive: The most simple change; this would ensure the spawn change does not have harmful effects in meso income.
    2) Decrease star force costs: GMS already has higher star force costs than other regions and this change would help make it so that the reduced meso income is less taxing on progression.
    3) Decrease cube costs in the cash shop: Same idea as the star force cost reduction.
    4) Increase amount of mesos obtained from Ursus / Maple Tour / Boss crystals: These alternative popular meso methods could be increased to compensate for the lost meso rates overall when training.
    5) Increase experience gained from mobs: Unrelated to meso, decreasing kishin harms the Experience rates as players clear maps, and so increased experience can server to counterbalance this nerf.

    Any of these changes would go a long way as reparations for this change, as it is detrimental to the quality of life and progression of the reboot server, which many maplers enjoy and have spent alot of time and money in. We want Maplestory to be the best it can be and feel that these changes are detrimental to progression and gameplay, and would like to see them re-examined with the response of the reboot community in mind.
    I don't like the fact you merged my suggestion. I have different ideas from you and people commenting here. Also, I had a poll. Please leave my suggestion the way it was.

    It gives my suggestion less impact.
    Prophetie
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
    Posts: 3,553
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Finally a kanna nerf. It's been a long time coming ever since that revamp and some balance patch a while ago that messed with shikigami's hitbox.
    Fuhreak
  • iArrowZiArrowZ
    Reactions: 1,710
    Posts: 159
    Member
    edited May 2020
    was there a massive edit to this thread cus now its completely different from when i initially posted..
  • NeospectorNeospector
    Reactions: 9,510
    Posts: 2,112
    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited May 2020
    iArrowZ wrote: »
    was there a massive edit to this thread cus now its completely different from when i initially posted..

    6 existing threads on the topic of Kanna's skill changes were merged into one.
  • iLiMiTaDoiLiMiTaDo
    Reactions: 1,435
    Posts: 52
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Respawn speed effect of Kishin Shoukan will be weakened. Currently this skill decreases the respawn time on the map by 50% of the normal respawn time, but the skill effect will be adjusted to decrease the respawn time on the map by 40% of the normal respawn time after the update. Additionally, the cooldown time will be increased and the skill duration will be decreased.


    Really ridiculous. The Frenzy has 70% respawn and these changes don't affect you too? The only thing you do with this is to make people more angry, do it so that both sides lose.

    Return to untradable Frenzy Totems for life and add coldown.
  • TurtlesRockTurtlesRock
    Reactions: 1,390
    Posts: 74
    Member
    edited May 2020
    Obviously the meso rate reduction is the most important issue in Reboot. Nexon is constantly nerfing our rates, and for what? Why should I farm 500m/hour for hours on end just to spend 30b with little to show from all the wasted hours.

    The rate in arcana with the old kish used to be 800m to even 1b meso per hour, which is completely fair given the extreme prices for 22 starring and 3 lining. Then the kish nerf brought reboot down to 600m to 700m per hour with maximum effort, but the average player will make 400m to 500m per hour. And now our meso rate will be reduced again by about 15%.

    Keep in mind that to even get these rates you have to level and fund a kanna to arcana, which is no easy task. For the majority of people, this kanna will not even be their main. For the kanna mains, this kanna will either have to stay at 247 or be punished with a meso reduction at 250. For kannas who want to advance beyond 250, they too have to make another kanna for arcana.

    Something has to be done to actually balance the game according to the new meso rate. Starforcing and cubing must be cheaper.

    Also, don't forget that with this kish update, the rate of nodes/droplets will also be reduced by 15%. The drop rate of these items should be increased.
    zmintdarik