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MapleStory Community Survey Results and Plans

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  • KThxBaiNaoKThxBaiNao
    Reactions: 11,680
    Posts: 300
    Member
    edited May 2017
    Maryse wrote: »
    Arwoo wrote: »
    We have no plans to moderate members of the community on what they say outside of our official platforms.
    If a ban is placed it will only be due to an extreme case.
    So... can we get an estimate for the unbanning of Aggraphine then?

    Forums + Fansite Activity Ban Policy

    I'm wondering this as well.
    If he isn't getting unbanned -- what will be done about the countless others on various platforms that have been even more offensive? Their usernames don't line up, but I know for a fact several of them post on the forums. How will you be taking action against them?

    Presence On Fansites

    Will we be seeing any activity from you on the subreddit or on Basilmarket?? You haven't posted on reddit in over month: http://i.imgur.com/ohZgR6t.png and as far as I'm aware, you haven't posted on Basilmarket at all.

    I've seen comments across various platforms that support the idea that members of the subreddit and basilmarket feel neglected, and even alienated from the community that you're trying to "unify"

    I understand that your feelings were hurt, and that people have been harassing you. Isn't that to be expected in these positions? Not even Sabina was welcome everywhere (I recall quite a few times where certain players harassed her on social media, and in various chat groups), and she had been CM of that community for years. It seems odd to me that someone who has so much community management experience has such seemingly thin skin. Now, I am by no means condoning or encouraging their behavior. To be honest, I expected a lot more from most of them and find a lot of what they're doing deplorable, however, is it not a community manager's responsibility to "be the bigger person?"

    Ban Appeals + Customer Support

    It's true that looking into ban appeals is not technically a part of the job description of a Community Manager. However, if false positive bans are negatively impacting members of the community - does it not fall under your "jurisdiction" then? The community has seen, on more than a few occasions, cases where a ban appeal was repeatedly denied until the community manager stepped in and reopened the case. Personally, I have had an account with mules banned for logging into it rapidly while transferring items. My appeal was denied twice until someone finally looked deeper into it and released the account with a clean slate.

    Are players supposed to accept that every single GM did their absolute best when looking into ban appeal cases?

    Discord
    Maryse and the subreddit already have Discords set up. Won't adding another Discord just create more separation? How do you plan on avoiding further segregating the community?

    What will the rules look like on this Discord? Will we be following forum rules? How will this be moderated


    This Survey

    Will you be releasing the full results of the survey? More than a handful of us would love to see exactly what feedback the community is giving. It would help us realize and see exactly how well and how much of our feedback is being listened to and acted upon.

    Thanks @Arwoo
    I look forward to your response.

    MaryseDuzzJettLuvsULilyflowerFennekinIts2Sharp4ULeighton_Bahamut_Xscholar624steamconeand 1 other.
  • HHG1HHG1
    Reactions: 5,966
    Posts: 780
    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    We have no plans to moderate members of the community on what they say outside of our official platforms.
    If a ban is placed it will only be due to an extreme case.

    We want all members of the Maple community to feel welcomed on our forums. This means that if an extreme case occurs, we will take action to prevent individuals from having to endure defamation, harassment, and abuse.
    RowEchelon wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Do you still intend to ban forumers for their behavior on other sites? Are any more rules going to be made up on the spot and enforced retroactively?

    This question needs to stop being avoided, and answered directly.

    Arwoo, do you or do you not intend to continue to ban forumers for their behaviour on other sites?

    What about the issue of impersonation? It's really easy to pretend to be someone else on the internet and sling all kinds of dung at other people, even using other people's vocabulary and mannerisms is extremely easy.
    Will it be decided strictly on an overlapping username basis or will you actually take enough measures to ensure that the people you ban in "extreme cases" will actually be the person responsible beyond reasonable doubt?

    I personally don't find Aggraphine's comments to be more extreme than what anyone else on reddit has said, and he did not incite people to come to the official forums and brigade against Nexon or anything like that. So I don't see why the user with the same name on the official forums was banned because of it. It should have been the reddit moderators' responsibility to take action, if needed. They're pretty good about deleting comments and locking threads when they get out of hand.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,055
    Posts: 5,908
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited May 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    We have no plans to moderate members of the community on what they say outside of our official platforms.
    If a ban is placed it will only be due to an extreme case.

    We want all members of the Maple community to feel welcomed on our forums. This means that if an extreme case occurs, we will take action to prevent individuals from having to endure defamation, harassment, and abuse.

    Thank you for clarifying.

    I would like to further ask, though: How does banning an extreme case from the official forums, prevent individuals from having to endure defamation, harassment, or abuse on other platforms?
    JettLuvsUTuba
  • NeoTokyoDudeNeoTokyoDude
    Reactions: 1,240
    Posts: 113
    Member
    edited May 2017
    I bet it will surprise a lot of you but I do have something to say about Aggraphine.

    He or she did help to derail a few Old Maple threads back in the day and I don't know the details of the how/ why of this persons ban but I can comment about what I hope would happen.

    One day I would like to see a chance for a ban appeal. Maybe some statements about future intentions and perhaps some questions from the moderators. (done in private, if need be)
    The reason I would like to see this is because one day I would like to hand this person a proper defeat in a debate about Old Maplestory. (if they still wanted to debate it or had not already agreed about it)
    Old Maplestory faces its own challenge with a ban of sorts, which is why I am in favor of rule enforcement that can show leniency in the right circumstances. (you may have already noticed this if you have seen some of my threads)

    Every case is separate and unique of course but I think there is always a little room for a gray area.
    Honestly, one day in the future I'd be glad if the bans on both Aggraphine and Old Maple were lifted. (subject to moderator and CM discretion)

    If anybody messes up after having an appeal granted then I believe they would just be out of luck.
    A lot my post is probably wishful thinking.
  • KThxBaiNaoKThxBaiNao
    Reactions: 11,680
    Posts: 300
    Member
    edited May 2017
    I bet it will surprise a lot of you but I do have something to say about Aggraphine.

    He or she did help to derail a few Old Maple threads back in the day and I don't know the details of the how/ why of this persons ban but I can comment about what I hope would happen.

    One day I would like to see a chance for a ban appeal. Maybe some statements about future intentions and perhaps some questions from the moderators. (done in private, if need be)
    The reason I would like to see this is because one day I would like to hand this person a proper defeat in a debate about Old Maplestory. (if they still wanted to debate it or had not already agreed about it)
    Old Maplestory faces its own challenge with a ban of sorts, which is why I am in favor of rule enforcement that can show leniency in the right circumstances. (you may have already noticed this if you have seen some of my threads)

    Every case is separate and unique of course but I think there is always a little room for a gray area.
    Honestly, one day in the future I'd be glad if the bans on both Aggraphine and Old Maple were lifted. (subject to moderator and CM discretion)

    If anybody messes up after having an appeal granted then I believe they would just be out of luck.
    A lot my post is probably wishful thinking.

    Did you really need to make this about Old Maple? Please, let's keep it relevant to the survey as best as we can.
    MaryseAlexFscholar624Its2Sharp4UBahamut_XFirewolfslayer
  • MaryseMaryse
    Reactions: 6,540
    Posts: 529
    Member
    edited May 2017
    I bet it will surprise a lot of you but I do have something to say about Aggraphine.

    He or she did help to derail a few Old Maple threads back in the day and I don't know the details of the how/ why of this persons ban but I can comment about what I hope would happen.

    One day I would like to see a chance for a ban appeal. Maybe some statements about future intentions and perhaps some questions from the moderators. (done in private, if need be)
    The reason I would like to see this is because one day I would like to hand this person a proper defeat in a debate about Old Maplestory. (if they still wanted to debate it or had not already agreed about it)
    Old Maplestory faces its own challenge with a ban of sorts, which is why I am in favor of rule enforcement that can show leniency in the right circumstances. (you may have already noticed this if you have seen some of my threads)

    Every case is separate and unique of course but I think there is always a little room for a gray area.
    Honestly, one day in the future I'd be glad if the bans on both Aggraphine and Old Maple were lifted. (subject to moderator and CM discretion)

    If anybody messes up after having an appeal granted then I believe they would just be out of luck.
    A lot my post is probably wishful thinking.
    Old Maple thread bans =/= Aggraphine ban
  • NiightseekerNiightseeker
    Reactions: 2,040
    Posts: 138
    Member
    edited May 2017
    I bet it will surprise a lot of you but I do have something to say about Aggraphine.

    He or she did help to derail a few Old Maple threads back in the day and I don't know the details of the how/ why of this persons ban but I can comment about what I hope would happen.

    One day I would like to see a chance for a ban appeal. Maybe some statements about future intentions and perhaps some questions from the moderators. (done in private, if need be)
    The reason I would like to see this is because one day I would like to hand this person a proper defeat in a debate about Old Maplestory. (if they still wanted to debate it or had not already agreed about it)
    Old Maplestory faces its own challenge with a ban of sorts, which is why I am in favor of rule enforcement that can show leniency in the right circumstances. (you may have already noticed this if you have seen some of my threads)

    Every case is separate and unique of course but I think there is always a little room for a gray area.
    Honestly, one day in the future I'd be glad if the bans on both Aggraphine and Old Maple were lifted. (subject to moderator and CM discretion)

    If anybody messes up after having an appeal granted then I believe they would just be out of luck.
    A lot my post is probably wishful thinking.

    ah yes, aggrastory, my favorite game
    such a shame there is ban
    Maryse
  • AKradianAKradian
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited May 2017
    AlexF wrote: »
    KThxBaiNao wrote: »
    Discord
    Maryse and the subreddit already have Discords set up. Won't adding another Discord just create more separation? How do you plan on avoiding further segregating the community?

    What will the rules look like on this Discord? Will we be following forum rules? How will this be moderated

    I think that an Official and properly advertised/set-up Discord might be more successful than others. They could, in theory, set up bots/tools that would allow Nexon staff to reply to members without the more.. unsightly things that happen in other channels. I've said this already, but several other games have official Discords that have proven to be successful.

    Just like an official and properly advertised/set-up forum should have been more successful than others - and yet it never happened. Sleepywood was much more active than the official forums back in the pre-BB, and so was Basilmarket for a few years longer. The subreddit is more popular than these forums now. Some people prefer not to be subject to the sort of censorship and scrutiny that company-owned platforms have. Not everyone feels comfortable under Big Brother's eye.

    Besides, looking at Nexon's track record with their website and these forums, as well as the old forums, I somehow doubt they'd know how to set the Discord up right.

    As for @KThxBaiNao's questions, though - I assume all will be revealed later. Arwoo did say "There’s still much planning to do with the server". And Nexon never shares its planning with us. They will tell us how the server will be, and if we think something should be different, we can submit feedback which will be very politely ignored.
    Bahamut_X
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
    Reactions: 4,545
    Posts: 642
    Member
    edited May 2017
    I made a thread addressing Event Hall. I think it should be taken into consideration as a temporary solution:
    http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/11736/suggestion-for-event-hall#latest
  • Leighton_Leighton_
    Reactions: 520
    Posts: 4
    Member
    edited May 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    We have no plans to moderate members of the community on what they say outside of our official platforms.
    If a ban is placed it will only be due to an extreme case.

    We want all members of the Maple community to feel welcomed on our forums. This means that if an extreme case occurs, we will take action to prevent individuals from having to endure defamation, harassment, and abuse.

    What this really sounds like is you having free reign to ban whoever you wish, and providing "extreme case" as the reason for the ban. You can't just suggest that people will be banned for reasons that you don't even care enough to list. Even for something as simple as this, there's none of the transparency we seek.

    You answered our question in a way which still makes us unsettled about speaking out. Who knows what's too extreme?

  • RowEchelonRowEchelon
    Reactions: 530
    Posts: 4
    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    We have no plans to moderate members of the community on what they say outside of our official platforms.
    If a ban is placed it will only be due to an extreme case.

    We want all members of the Maple community to feel welcomed on our forums. This means that if an extreme case occurs, we will take action to prevent individuals from having to endure defamation, harassment, and abuse.
    RowEchelon wrote: »

    This question needs to stop being avoided, and answered directly.

    Arwoo, do you or do you not intend to continue to ban forumers for their behaviour on other sites?

    Thank you for answering the question directly and concisely. As CM you have the right to run the forums any way you wish, and I'm sure you have chosen this policy in attempt to make the forum a better place.

    I, however, respectfully disagree with your decision to enact this policy. I find preemptive banning a tad draconian, and unfortunately, it has given me enough reason to continue to not participate on the official forums, and I will be extending this lack of participation to the upcoming official Discord server as well.
  • EtrayoEtrayo
    Reactions: 905
    Posts: 12
    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2017
    It comes back to the fact that Players like Ying, Etc in Reboot have still not been banned despite it being proven that they hack and support hackers. They continue to mock you guys in streams and forums because they're getting away with it. It's literally become a meme that these guilds are unbannable no matter what they do. Yet people Like Clanta are swiftly banned with no explanation. How can you ban one "Exploiter" But not another?
  • NeoTokyoDudeNeoTokyoDude
    Reactions: 1,240
    Posts: 113
    Member
    edited May 2017
    KThxBaiNao wrote: »
    Did you really need to make this about Old Maple? Please, let's keep it relevant to the survey as best as we can.

    What do you suppose I put in my survey response?

    In a different thread, someone who has (mostly) been following along with Old Maple said that my comments were "spammy". Even though this is technically true, (anything can potentially be called spam) it still surprises me to hear it from them. On the previous forums I made it a point not to report anyone because I did not want anybody to get in trouble. I always figured that if something went wrong with a thread then I could simply create a new one! I find it hilarious how much that optimistic thinking backfired.

    Some of you would like to call out Nexon for an alleged abuse of power but I cant really get behind the whole mob mentality approach. Not when an entire segment of the former population is allowed to be silenced by a single not fully explained rule and it is accepted as "normal". I don't really know why more people are not able to notice but a community includes more than just the majority or people who support what is popular. Did it actually not bother anyone else to witness Old Maple players leaving and staying gone? Well who knows? Maybe most folks are happier not playing the game or being on the forums. That is entirely possible but I would think getting fired up over one alleged abuse while turning a blind eye to another one kind of defeats the purpose.

    Nexon has its own ways of doing things and I don't think anyone here would be surprised by this. Even though I dont support being too harsh, that doesnt mean I want Nexon to get a free pass either. Better communication and transparency? Sounds good in writing but I will believe it when I see it. Everyone has got their own areas of interest and what one group may think is great could mean nothing to another.

    So I guess I should cut to the chase, I think the ban about Old Maplestory is a bad idea. I cannot see what good it is doing and I cannot see what misbehavior it is supposed to prevent. It is a clear symbol of the splitting of the Old and Newer communities and is like kryptonite to anyone who would want to suggest bringing these two groups back together. I try my best to pile on good things about Old Maple to take this rule down, yet it still somehow remains in place.

    The piece of transparency that I care about is Old Maple, I would like to see some change for the topic or for someone to explain how keeping the ban in place is more beneficial than it is bad. Or to make it known if there is some other reason for it that the public is not aware of.


    I would like to see action taken but I'm not demanding it. I am only expressing my opinion which does not break any rules, as far as I know.
  • MaryseMaryse
    Reactions: 6,540
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    edited May 2017
    I wish I was that passionate about something as you are about old MS.
    You're unrelenting. No matter how much we are all annoyed with your posts, no matter how much you fly in the face of the rule that you caused to be created, you still carry on, you persevere.
    Good on you bud.
    But please... stop.
    AlexF
  • LucidWaifuLucidWaifu
    Reactions: 520
    Post: 1
    Member
    edited May 2017
    just gonna put my 2 cents here

    you guys dont bother banning people who are botting.
    when players send you guys video evidence through ticket system. you guys simply say "we will look into it" and just ignore it.
    I have friends who are dedicated to reporting hackers who are active players
    he can send you hacker A hacking on 6 different occasions over the course of few months and nothing ever happens to hacker A

    there are 2 types of hackers. first type is the meso farmer with gibberish name and i believe you ban those accounts
    2nd type is regular player that happen to hack, they are regular joes with regular IGN and maybe spend money here and there
    they rarely get banned. And it's probably because they spend money


    i want to put more but im too lazy and i dont care about how nexon will do

    but here is summery:
    GMs need to take player report more seriously, they need to know when a player is macroing, they need to take action against players hacking.
    also there are GM detection in popular hacks, so get on that
    LilyflowerJettLuvsU
  • NeoTokyoDudeNeoTokyoDude
    Reactions: 1,240
    Posts: 113
    Member
    edited May 2017
    Maryse wrote: »
    I wish I was that passionate about something as you are about old MS.
    You're unrelenting. No matter how much we are all annoyed with your posts, no matter how much you fly in the face of the rule that you caused to be created, you still carry on, you persevere.
    Good on you bud.
    But please... stop.

    I would have taken this as a compliment but I dislike that you asked me to please stop having an opinion of my own. Defending Old MS in a debate is not the same as asking for a rule about Old MS to be taken down. They are similar but having a ban that "endorses" one side over another undermines the spirit of fair play and fair debate. If you would like to disagree with my stance in a debate then feel free but I have my own way of thinking as I am sure you do too. I will ask that you please stop trying to get me to not have an opinion.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,055
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited May 2017
    I strongly recommend everyone stop responding to the thread derailment and get back on the topic: "Maplestory Community Survey Results and Plans."
    Catooolooo
  • NeoTokyoDudeNeoTokyoDude
    Reactions: 1,240
    Posts: 113
    Member
    edited May 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    I strongly recommend everyone stop responding to the thread derailment and get back on the topic: "Maplestory Community Survey Results and Plans."

    Akradian, I am disappoint. Instead of listening to someone elses point of view you appear to dismiss it as to not even exist. The survey had open ended questions and meant different things to different people, just because an issue is not important to you doesnt mean its necessary to throw rocks at other peoples glass houses.

    You were pretty active on the previous forums and I would say are somewhat familiar with what happened with Old MS back then. So you should also know that I'm not simply blowing smoke or just trolling for the fun of it. I could make a flow chart of why a question could appear more than once but I don't think there is need for it. If you have zero interest in Old MS and dont think a server could work then I have no qualms with that. But it is completely separate to claim that my (and others) personal opinion is not even worth acknowledging.

    Legally speaking, Old MS does not have a lot of options, so it stands to reason that I would continue to challenge a ban that hampers it. I'm not looking for total agreement, just fair treatment for a topic.

    Tell me, what sort of community do you envision for Maplestory? One that is basically inclusive or one that "selectively" gets rid of people for only minor differences?
  • TanyaTanya
    Reactions: 1,230
    Posts: 91
    Member
    edited May 2017
    Thank you for compiling these survey results, it is much appreciated :)

    I really hope more progress is made to server stability. The issues listed in the original post are only a fraction of the stability issues that players face - things like getting booted to login screen when changing channels and random client crashes (not even during 2x) make regular gameplay really frustrating.

    As for the results of the forum usage - most people answered they do not visit the forums for answers / info. I wouldn't chalk that up to lack of interest in the forum model. I think the low usage of these forums is a result of players coming to the official Nexon channels for official Nexon help, and not getting it.
    The only reason for going through an official Nexon channel is to have your post seen by a Nexon Employee - on the data chart it shows that a majority of people who frequent the forums come here specifically to bring attention to game related issues, or to get information on new events / in game happenings. These are both things that Nexon is expected to provide, not the player base. I love that you would like to improve communication between the player base and Nexon, but I worry that with starting a new Discord channel for communication, you will be spreading yourselves too thin. Managing one form of communication well is better than having multiple channels where answers are few and far between.

    That being said, I think making further improvements to communication on the forums could possibly boost usage - I wouldn't give up on the forums completely. See if you can improve communication here, and if not, maybe start a discord. Because if players continue to get player driven responses rather than official Nexon answers, what is the point of going to any Official Nexon Channel? Just a thought.
    JettLuvsU
  • OkhuraOkhura
    Reactions: 3,965
    Posts: 591
    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited May 2017
    I plan to think a little bit more about what I want to say on the hacker issues, which was the main focus of my survey feedback.

    But I have a few questions about the discord server:
    How much actual Nexon staff presence will be there?
    Who will be running it on a day to day basis?
    Will the rules be exactly the same as the forum?
    Why are you planning an official one when there are several unofficial ones already?
    JettLuvsU