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Discussion: "Both" Tab in Rankings

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  • Sam016Sam016
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    Member
    edited January 2019
    Sam016 wrote: »
    Sam016 wrote: »
    .
    Even if a person is f2p and earnestly farms in normal server, they cannot keep up with reboot server. As the above person says, no matter how much we pay to win (frenzy, firestarter, whatever else) we will still not keep up.

    As for the ranking, ever since the release of reboot in KMS, it has been a separate ranking because they understand the servers are playing under entirely separate playing fields. Every server as far as I am aware has a separated reboot ranking. The only exception being GMS

    I don't think you can really compare a Reboot f2p player with an f2p player who plays on main servers. The reason for this is because reboot players needs to grind more for mesos than main servers to upgrade their gear whereas in main servers you will likely grind more for levels or droplets or if something else. Their meso farming needs to be on point in other to progress well (leveling wise because of mobs with high HP). That's why farming earnestly in Reboot is different compared to main servers. That's why I said we need to have an ranking system like KMS. The "Both" Tab is just an extra tab which people make a problem out of it.

    P.S You can manually select which ranking you want to see if it bothers you.
    ZomgNit wrote: »
    .
    No matter how much someone "pays to win" in a regular server they still can never achieve the same rates as someone in Reboot. Even with every available advantage in regular servers (which the top reg server players have been using since the level cap was raised) they still get half the rate of exp as Reboot. To argue that it's somehow a fair race because in reg servers you can buy things that help with training is just extremely ignorant and shows your lack of understanding of the differences between the two servers.

    Well... there's a reason why Reboot got those exp rates in the first place. they got those mainly because some features that are available in the main servers aren't available in Reboot. That is the reason why they got compensated for that. So don't come here telling me I don't know the differences between both the servers. The "Both" Tab is just an extra tab which salty people like you are complaining about. Looks like it somehow bothers you so much about who's getting to Lv. 275 first.




    Both servers have different features and their damage / experience rates differ as everyone is aware. Now you saying reboot gets compensation from what they don't have from reg servers correct?

    Now we don't have 2x cards past 250, in your way of thinking, it would mean reboot shouldn't have their double base experience past 250 too. Or does this only apply if it benefits reboot?

    As for calling me salty, I play in Luna server so I honestly don't care who gets first in NA server. I'm just pointing out how unfair the rankings are to regular server players which you clearly cannot see.

    Reboot EU levels much slower than NA so there's a mix of non reboot and reboot in our rankings. (Just rank 1 in EUboot is very suspicious)
  • CrypticTheiCrypticThei
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 2019
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    Sam016 wrote: »

    Even if a person is f2p and earnestly farms in normal server, they cannot keep up with reboot server. As the above person says, no matter how much we pay to win (frenzy, firestarter, whatever else) we will still not keep up.

    As for the ranking, ever since the release of reboot in KMS, it has been a separate ranking because they understand the servers are playing under entirely separate playing fields. Every server as far as I am aware has a separated reboot ranking. The only exception being GMS

    not true
    non-reboot can do much faster
    but to achieve that needs $$$$ (why marvel/philo/dmt its "popular"?)
    its only about time when they fix 3x/2x coupons and see non-rebooters rates explode (if non-rebooters still baits for that $$$)

    also you compare kms and gms when it's like non-reboot and reboot like you say

    after all still why all that matter when you got your own non-reboot ranking ?

    Why do you think that non-reboot can get to 275 much quicker? Have you taken a look at rankings?
    Here are the current statistics for how much exp the #1 player from each server has gotten so far since the level cap has been raised:
    Non-Reboot: 9,935,287,229,047
    Reboot: 18,771,699,907,600

    For those of you who are too lazy to do the math, the #1 player from Reboot is 1.89x faster currently. Being ahead grants an exponential lead by allowing them to gain access to higher exp-granting mobs earlier, so this multiplier will likely increase.



    You argue that if nexon activates 2x cash shop coupons above level 250 that non-reboot would be faster. First, face the facts; nexon has made it clear that they don't work on level 250+, and there is no indication that this will change.

    But I'll humor you, lets say they do add 2x cash shop. Well then it looks like non-reboot would be better right? 2x their curent exp is higher than Reboot's? The simple answer is No, this is not true. You can't just take the raw exp and multiply it by 2x, because a huge portion of that exp was granted by additive exp sources (exp potions, mercedes link, zero card, legion, runes, burning field) which are unaffected by multiplicative sources(such as cash shop cards). Rather more likely is that Reboot will still be ahead.




    Although it should be noted (and you should do some re-reading) that the point of this thread isn't to argue over which server levels faster; as the rates are clear. Nobody here is necessarily saying that this should be fixed... rather they want rankings to be changed/stay the same.




    EDIT: sources for information are below
    Rankings
    EXP From levels 1-250, 250-257, and 250-261
    Sam016
  • SandyLerrowSandyLerrow
    Reactions: 550
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    Member
    edited January 2019
    Sam016 wrote: »
    Both servers have different features and their damage / experience rates differ as everyone is aware. Now you saying reboot gets compensation from what they don't have from reg servers correct?

    Now we don't have 2x cards past 250, in your way of thinking, it would mean reboot shouldn't have their double base experience past 250 too. Or does this only apply if it benefits reboot?

    As for calling me salty, I play in Luna server so I honestly don't care who gets first in NA server. I'm just pointing out how unfair the rankings are to regular server players which you clearly cannot see.

    Reboot EU levels much slower than NA so there's a mix of non reboot and reboot in our rankings. (Just rank 1 in EUboot is very suspicious)

    You heard me right. They need to farm more in other to train efficiently. Reboot players would have a harder time dealing with those mobs on reboot due to higher HP on mobs compared to regular servers which in turn gives them more exp. I play partially on main servers despite my main is in Reboot.
    I can clearly see, but I'm not among people like you who complain how unfair things are, mainly because I'm neutral and won't complain about an extra tab on the rankings. I can manually select which tab I want to see instead of whining. I can't say much about EU Reboot but, the only thing I know is people are comparing NA normal servers with Na Reboot.



    WONDERGUY
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited January 2019
    If you want to argue for or against exp coupons please add that feedback here:

    forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/23574/allow-exp-coupons-for-250-274

    For the ranking discussion maybe it would help to consider it from an outside perspective. If you knew nothing about maple wouldn't the "both" tab indicate to you that they should be comparable?
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 3,060
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    edited January 2019
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    Sam016 wrote: »

    Even if a person is f2p and earnestly farms in normal server, they cannot keep up with reboot server. As the above person says, no matter how much we pay to win (frenzy, firestarter, whatever else) we will still not keep up.

    As for the ranking, ever since the release of reboot in KMS, it has been a separate ranking because they understand the servers are playing under entirely separate playing fields. Every server as far as I am aware has a separated reboot ranking. The only exception being GMS

    not true
    non-reboot can do much faster
    but to achieve that needs $$$$ (why marvel/philo/dmt its "popular"?)
    its only about time when they fix 3x/2x coupons and see non-rebooters rates explode (if non-rebooters still baits for that $$$)

    also you compare kms and gms when it's like non-reboot and reboot like you say

    after all still why all that matter when you got your own non-reboot ranking ?

    Why do you think that non-reboot can get to 275 much quicker? Have you taken a look at rankings?
    Here are the current statistics for how much exp the #1 player from each server has gotten so far since the level cap has been raised:
    Non-Reboot: 9,935,287,229,047
    Reboot: 18,771,699,907,600

    For those of you who are too lazy to do the math, the #1 player from Reboot is 1.89x faster currently. Being ahead grants an exponential lead by allowing them to gain access to higher exp-granting mobs earlier, so this multiplier will likely increase.



    You argue that if nexon activates 2x cash shop coupons above level 250 that non-reboot would be faster. First, face the facts; nexon has made it clear that they don't work on level 250+, and there is no indication that this will change.

    But I'll humor you, lets say they do add 2x cash shop. Well then it looks like non-reboot would be better right? 2x their curent exp is higher than Reboot's? The simple answer is No, this is not true. You can't just take the raw exp and multiply it by 2x, because a huge portion of that exp was granted by additive exp sources (exp potions, mercedes link, zero card, legion, runes, burning field) which are unaffected by multiplicative sources(such as cash shop cards). Rather more likely is that Reboot will still be ahead.




    Although it should be noted (and you should do some re-reading) that the point of this thread isn't to argue over which server levels faster; as the rates are clear. Nobody here is necessarily saying that this should be fixed... rather they want rankings to be changed/stay the same.




    EDIT: sources for information are below
    Rankings
    EXP From levels 1-250, 250-257, and 250-261

    current ranking proof noting (only shows how many acutly want to $$ to 275)
    non-reboot allways did ''faster speedruns" don't know what math you talk about
    and you can see people without frenzy/fs dont even bother now go more then 272
    reboot by nature of farming got kannas with higher lvl that helps them in non-reboot not many got them so it's mostly on frenzy
    both world actuly should be ''same" but reboot with meso-only

    i dont argue you should read aswell some maplers wanted split on ranking
    when ranking are allready splited to reboot/non-reboot and both
    its all about that "both" that its only extra and shouldnt be that big of a issue (discord bot can do same )


    about 2x
    i think msea took them down for update aswell and said they will add them back
    and i belive nexon wants to make it new a bit better and more expensive coupons for 250+

  • CrypticTheiCrypticThei
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    edited January 2019
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    non-reboot allways did ''faster speedruns" don't know what math you talk about
    and you can see people without frenzy/fs dont even bother now go more then 272
    reboot by nature of farming got kannas with higher lvl that helps them in non-reboot not many got them so it's mostly on frenzy

    I provided clear math with sources and explanation. I really can't tell if you actually don't understand the simple math I've done or if you're trolling. The #1 reboot player has gained 1.88x more exp than the #1 non-reboot player, and a 2x coupon will not flip the tables. You act like none of the #1 players from non-reboot have spent money. In fact, its probably the opposite; those players have spent tons of money on frenzy totems, exp potions, firestarter rings, etc.... otherwise, they wouldn't be the top people. You make it sound like they just charge nx to their account and instantly reach level 275; but obviously this isn't true.

    Also what are you on about people not going about level 272? This depends on the person, and nobody from GMS is even at level 272 yet so I'm not sure where you've gotten this idea.

    Frenzy is actually better than kishin, and all of the top rank non-reboot worlds have frenzy totems, so by your logic (if they were equal), non-reboot should be faster(although clearly isn't).

    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    i think msea took them down for update aswell and said they will add them back
    and i belive nexon wants to make it new a bit better and more expensive coupons for 250+

    Do you have any sources for this? Valid arguments don't come from "i think this will happen..." but from logic and direct statements from Nexon.
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    i dont argue you should read aswell some maplers wanted split on ranking
    when ranking are allready splited to reboot/non-reboot and both
    its all about that "both" that its only extra and shouldnt be that big of a issue (discord bot can do same )

    Except I have read the thread? I've commented about the actual topic of the thread (the both tab), meanwhile, you're just looking to argue about which server gets more exp.


    As a side note if you're just too lazy to type coherent sentences then I wouldn't even bother arguing; nobody can understand you and will not take you seriously. If English isn't one of your strong languages, perhaps recruit help from somebody that speaks your native language and English because it's incredibly hard to understand you and take you seriously when I've read more coherent ideas from elementary school students.
    ZomgNitSam016
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited January 2019
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    non-reboot allways did ''faster speedruns" don't know what math you talk about
    and you can see people without frenzy/fs dont even bother now go more then 272
    reboot by nature of farming got kannas with higher lvl that helps them in non-reboot not many got them so it's mostly on frenzy

    I provided clear math with sources and explanation. I really can't tell if you actually don't understand the simple math I've done or if you're trolling. The #1 reboot player has gained 1.88x more exp than the #1 non-reboot player, and a 2x coupon will not flip the tables. You act like none of the #1 players from non-reboot have spent money. In fact, its probably the opposite; those players have spent tons of money on frenzy totems, exp potions, firestarter rings, etc.... otherwise, they wouldn't be the top people. You make it sound like they just charge nx to their account and instantly reach level 275; but obviously this isn't true.

    Also what are you on about people not going about level 272? This depends on the person, and nobody from GMS is even at level 272 yet so I'm not sure where you've gotten this idea.

    Frenzy is actually better than kishin, and all of the top rank non-reboot worlds have frenzy totems, so by your logic (if they were equal), non-reboot should be faster(although clearly isn't).

    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    i think msea took them down for update aswell and said they will add them back
    and i belive nexon wants to make it new a bit better and more expensive coupons for 250+

    Do you have any sources for this? Valid arguments don't come from "i think this will happen..." but from logic and direct statements from Nexon.
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    i dont argue you should read aswell some maplers wanted split on ranking
    when ranking are allready splited to reboot/non-reboot and both
    its all about that "both" that its only extra and shouldnt be that big of a issue (discord bot can do same )

    Except I have read the thread? I've commented about the actual topic of the thread (the both tab), meanwhile, you're just looking to argue about which server gets more exp.


    As a side note if you're just too lazy to type coherent sentences then I wouldn't even bother arguing; nobody can understand you and will not take you seriously. If English isn't one of your strong languages, perhaps recruit help from somebody that speaks your native language and English because it's incredibly hard to understand you and take you seriously when I've read more coherent ideas from elementary school students.
    whatever....
    splited ranking :
    GMS non-reboot

    GMS reboot

    EMS reboot

    EMS non-reboot
    both ranking its only extra and no reason for low motvation
    non-reboot it's a bit slower because you miss some items
    go buy your frenzy,fs,Ring of Torment and all other things out there $$
    bye..
    FuhreakSandyLerrow
  • ZomgNitZomgNit
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    edited January 2019
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    whatever....
    splited ranking :
    GMS non-reboot

    GMS reboot

    EMS reboot

    EMS non-reboot
    both ranking its only extra and no reason for low motvation
    non-reboot it's a bit slower because you miss some items
    go buy your frenzy,fs,Ring of Torment and all other things out there $$
    bye..

    Lmao dude what are you even talking about. The top regular server players have already been using Frenzy, FS, and Ring of Torment while training 16+ hours a day and they're still only going half as fast as Reboot.

    You're just pretending that people in regular servers can spend money to buy levels, which is obviously an outright lie, and I can only assume you're doing that because you're salty about other people spending money on a video game?
    Sam016
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited February 2019
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    Regardless of which server is faster (not the issue here*), we already have what players are asking for. If it's really that big of a deal having the "both" tab, why not just remove it from default?
    I still don't see why people are so motivated/unmotivated based on a webpage that has no impact on the game itself.

    Edit: *To clarify, the issue is that there's a difference in speed/method, it would be the same problem if Reg was faster than Reboot.
  • Sam016Sam016
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    edited February 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    Regardless of which server is faster (not the issue here*), we already have what players are asking for. If it's really that big of a deal having the "both" tab, why not just remove it from default?
    I still don't see why people are so motivated/unmotivated based on a webpage that has no impact on the game itself.

    Edit: *To clarify, the issue is that there's a difference in speed/method, it would be the same problem if Reg was faster than Reboot.

    Thats because some people care about rankings, isn't that why this whole topic is here in the first place? Cause people care?
    Leaderboards bring up lots of competition so it can have a mental effect on people and if you don't see that then that's on you.

    You're free to say whatever you want to say since it's your opinion in the end but even if reg server was faster we'd still be here in this situation asking for both tab to be removed.
  • FawkoFawko
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    edited February 2019
    Remove the both tab because Reboot has a clear advantage
    Sam016ZomgNit
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited February 2019
    Sam016 wrote: »
    Thats because some people care about rankings, isn't that why this whole topic is here in the first place? Cause people care?
    Leaderboards bring up lots of competition so it can have a mental effect on people and if you don't see that then that's on you.
    I still find it silly that people will lose motivation based on a website feature that they have to opt-in to seeing.
    It's fun, sure, but it shouldn't be the force that drives you. I can see why people like it, sure.
    But again, to lose motivation because of it? That I just don't get.

    While rankings is being made such a big deal about, I'd like to suggest that the guild rankings are added to the website.
    Those are actually in the game itself, why aren't they displayed on the website, too?
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited February 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    While rankings is being made such a big deal about, I'd like to suggest that the guild rankings are added to the website.
    Those are actually in the game itself, why aren't they displayed on the website, too?

    Another reason to implement KMS rankings. They have a page for guild ranks.
    FuhreakZomgNit
  • iLiMiTaDoiLiMiTaDo
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    edited February 2019
    DualBlade should have a ramking very apart from the Nighlord, it is unfair to put us in the same classification knowing the advantages of the NL, it is assumed that DualBlade has character creation as a character, I do not understand why we classify in the same ranking.
    WONDERGUY
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited February 2019
    iLiMiTaDo wrote: »
    DualBlade should have a ramking very apart from the Nighlord, it is unfair to put us in the same classification knowing the advantages of the NL, it is assumed that DualBlade has character creation as a character, I do not understand why we classify in the same ranking.

    exactly lol instead of things like that....
    we argue and waste time on extra tab on ranking that people can eazy avoid
    you can go click reboot/non-reboot and both (fair enough splited as you want)
    you can go job->explorer>job (theif/pirate/bowman/mage/warrior) and you can't go furthermore
    hope your msg gets noticed

  • OjamaOjama
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    edited February 2019
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    iLiMiTaDo wrote: »
    DualBlade should have a ramking very apart from the Nighlord, it is unfair to put us in the same classification knowing the advantages of the NL, it is assumed that DualBlade has character creation as a character, I do not understand why we classify in the same ranking.

    exactly lol instead of things like that....
    we argue and waste time on extra tab on ranking that people can eazy avoid
    you can go click reboot/non-reboot and both (fair enough splited as you want)
    you can go job->explorer>job (theif/pirate/bowman/mage/warrior) and you can't go furthermore
    hope your msg gets noticed

    What would be the point in splitting those rank though? since open job advancement is a thing for adventures meaning that a Night Lord could job change to Dual Blader after getting lvl 275 and be high rank as Dual Blader that way.
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited February 2019
    Ojama wrote: »
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    iLiMiTaDo wrote: »
    DualBlade should have a ramking very apart from the Nighlord, it is unfair to put us in the same classification knowing the advantages of the NL, it is assumed that DualBlade has character creation as a character, I do not understand why we classify in the same ranking.

    exactly lol instead of things like that....
    we argue and waste time on extra tab on ranking that people can eazy avoid
    you can go click reboot/non-reboot and both (fair enough splited as you want)
    you can go job->explorer>job (theif/pirate/bowman/mage/warrior) and you can't go furthermore
    hope your msg gets noticed

    What would be the point in splitting those rank though? since open job advancement is a thing for adventures meaning that a Night Lord could job change to Dual Blader after getting lvl 275 and be high rank as Dual Blader that way.

    they can count only the orginaly job and keep on ranking like that ,then when they swtich a extra badge to their ranking
    so when they switch they will be marked and their position on ranking will be after the one that never switched
    like ( 275 dualblade with small NL symbol be rank 1) if a NL that never swtiched get to 275 he will be first on ranking
    there is more solution for that once that thread come

    like for real f**** it remove the both tab when people cant avoid clicking on it and make real ranking revmap while on that topic
    less time wasted and more postive outcome




  • Sam016Sam016
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    edited February 2019
    So @Ghiblee
    If Nexon decides to either remove it or not, is there a specific time frame for this feedback thread?
  • SwirlledSwirlled
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    edited February 2019
    If not removed, at least make a change so that the "Both" tab is not the default option once you open up player rankings.
    For reasons already stated in this thread, comparing top-leveled players between Reboot and non-Reboot is not fair, but since the option for "Both" is automatically selected when you click on the rankings, people end up comparing them anyway.
    ZomgNit
  • Sam016Sam016
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    edited February 2019
    So they fixed reboots rank icon instead, I guess this means Nexon won't be removing both tab?

    If so that's just crappy