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Please get rid of Kishin already

Comments

  • darikdarik
    Reactions: 3,150
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    edited February 2019
    ShadEight wrote: »
    Banda wrote: »
    This solution requires a Minimum of effort from nexon to apply, and lets hackers put their efforts in other classes than the poor kanna class
    If it was minimum effort it would already be implemented by now. Reorganizing class content isn't something GMS does these days. And hackers can get to 200 in a few hours, there is really no way to 'weed them out' as they progress much faster than regular players, skip questlines instantly and solo the hardest of bosses without breaking a sweat. All this does is gatekeep legit players from having access to kishin.

    This is exactly what happened eith rune activation and flying mobs, they didnt affect hackers the only ppl it affected was legit players.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
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    edited February 2019
    darik wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    Banda wrote: »
    This solution requires a Minimum of effort from nexon to apply, and lets hackers put their efforts in other classes than the poor kanna class
    If it was minimum effort it would already be implemented by now. Reorganizing class content isn't something GMS does these days. And hackers can get to 200 in a few hours, there is really no way to 'weed them out' as they progress much faster than regular players, skip questlines instantly and solo the hardest of bosses without breaking a sweat. All this does is gatekeep legit players from having access to kishin.

    This is exactly what happened eith rune activation and flying mobs, they didnt affect hackers the only ppl it affected was legit players.

    No no, you don't understand. The flying potion-locking(which seems to have been changed a handful of patches ago to be a blanket disabling of use-tab items...) mobs were added to kms to stop people from claiming maps by sitting afk in them. I don't know if you've noticed at all, but this has literally never been a thing in gms, and anyone who tries it is laughed at and ignored.

    They were blindly copypasted from kms to solve a problem no service but kms experiences. The rest of your post, however, is on-point.
  • pepepepe
    Reactions: 2,125
    Posts: 161
    Member
    edited February 2019
    ShadEight wrote: »
    pepe wrote: »
    Can the GMS team actually tell us what's going on with the Kishin situation before they hit the switch? Memos are great and all but I don't want a memo saying something like 'we've thought long and hard and have come to the decision to nerf kishin permanently and will compensate it with a small change (15% mob exp etc) we are sorry and will strive to make the game better'.

    There was a moment in the nexon Q&A where a twitch streamer (Matt) inquired about the Nebulite-Flame situation and Savage Ace said something like 'would you guys like to have flames instead of Nebs?' (to which Matt responded in the affirmative). I believe this moment actually solidified Nexon's decision to replace Nebs with Flames and it was all due to a simple exchange.

    I bring up this instance of communication not to derail the thread but to demonstrate the effective act of consulting players PRIOR to major changes. Since Kishin affects the majority of players, I propose that we the players should democratically decide the fate of Kishin.

    The problem with this is that nexon's intention for Kishin could very well be to nerf it to JMS levels (which I suspect IS what they're going for) or worst case remove it entirely. Meanwhile the playerbase wants to retain Kishin or it's effect but remove the 2 PC meta (kishin link skill, kishin node, permanent spawn boost to all maps, etc). Therein lies the contradiction. We want one thing they want another. And there is simply no solution that could satisfy both sides.

    Sorry to be the pessimist but the most likely outcome to all of this is that Kishin as we know it will be gone, normal servers will keep Frenzy and Reboot dies. We're just setting ourselves up for disappointment at this point.

    I've actually accepted the possibility of Kishin being nerfed to smithereens for awhile now, my assumption was that since Nexon has said the problem was due to 'network lag caused by mass kishin etc' and were looking to supplant Kishin's spawn effect with an EXP/meso bonus it would SURELY indicate that they want Kishin as we know it completely gone (JMS clone or otherwise).

    However putting their heads on ground like an ostrich isn't going to bode well for them. If this goes wrong for them, the backlash is going to be magnitudes greater than party play removal. They must know by now that collective bargaining can produce beneficial outcomes for them. In other words, confronting the players before a game changing decision like this IS IN THEIR OWN INTEREST.
  • DarkZettaDarkZetta
    Reactions: 1,325
    Posts: 73
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    darik wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    Banda wrote: »
    This solution requires a Minimum of effort from nexon to apply, and lets hackers put their efforts in other classes than the poor kanna class
    If it was minimum effort it would already be implemented by now. Reorganizing class content isn't something GMS does these days. And hackers can get to 200 in a few hours, there is really no way to 'weed them out' as they progress much faster than regular players, skip questlines instantly and solo the hardest of bosses without breaking a sweat. All this does is gatekeep legit players from having access to kishin.

    This is exactly what happened eith rune activation and flying mobs, they didnt affect hackers the only ppl it affected was legit players.

    No no, you don't understand. The flying potion-locking(which seems to have been changed a handful of patches ago to be a blanket disabling of use-tab items...) mobs were added to kms to stop people from claiming maps by sitting afk in them. I don't know if you've noticed at all, but this has literally never been a thing in gms, and anyone who tries it is laughed at and ignored.

    They were blindly copypasted from kms to solve a problem no service but kms experiences. The rest of your post, however, is on-point.

    It actually WAS a thing WAY back when Skelegons was the hot spot before Nexon added mini dungeons. Trying to take over a map with 1-2 people afking on the rope in the middle of the map pretty much led to you getting KS'd by ultimate spamming mages for hours.

    It stopped being a thing when LHC released with OP OP party play.
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 3,170
    Posts: 503
    Member
    edited February 2019
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    you know decent frenzy skill can be abused by hackers mules even more then makeing kanna mules
    AKradian wrote: »
    darik wrote: »
    Maybe to avoid that 2 pc meta, there could be developed someting that detects 2 comps logging from the same ip and blocking one of those and only being able to log from 1 comp with that IP adress? Also in addition to this the improvements in map spawn that everyones already mentioned.

    The people using two computers are not cheaters that need blocking. It's not against the rules to do it.
    On the other hand, your suggestion would also make it impossible for two people in the same house, or the same college dorm, or the same PC-cafe, to play Maple at the same time. That's definitely something neither Nexon nor the players want.
    Besides, the one-per-IP restriction would be very easy to circumvent.

    The problem with the 2PC meta is that people feel forced to acquire a second computer, and make a second account headed by a high-level Kanna, just to progress effectively on their main account. Removing Kishin's spawn effects, with or without one of the replacements suggested upthread, would remove the need for a second computer.
    2pc meta can be done if they make harder gameplay
    for example
    if kanna mule that sits there without any action for 3-5sec+ dmg intake x2 def cut x2, pet pot disable.....
    or make kish to work only in att animation

    (alltho 90% of players that mule kanna use macros.keyweight to spam kish and other stuff)
    before you tell me not true chek streamers/youtube grind videos and their kanna mules continuously spaming kish ( you cant see the skill animation or barely see but you can see their kanna mule "dance" each time they cast )

    best solution remove kish and frenzy bring normal spawn and make maplestory great again
    (kish remove i mean remove the mobs spawn line you can keep kish for mobing)
    #dream #f2p
    who know maybe new CEO & company that we get at end of feb/march will make some changes
    Deutsche Securities, supervisor of the sale of Nexon, set the date for preliminary bids for Feb. 21
    http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190131000671
    as i said with kanna issue today one of "bigest" streamer did show reality

    i have to admit its community fault aswell we cant blame nexon full time
    community mindest its ...........
    am so sorry and feel bad for nexon (as much as they fail)
    but imagine working with 90% cheaters daily,
    people ready to break rules just to get a bit "better",
    people that fake doing good just to stub you at end

    i know many will disagree and say its just game bla bla there are worse hackers
    we cant work like that we must follow rules and help instead of cheat and lie to eachother
    Fuhreakdarik
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
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    Member
    edited February 2019
    DarkZetta wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    They were blindly copypasted from kms to solve a problem no service but kms experiences. The rest of your post, however, is on-point.

    It actually WAS a thing WAY back when Skelegons was the hot spot before Nexon added mini dungeons. Trying to take over a map with 1-2 people afking on the rope in the middle of the map pretty much led to you getting KS'd by ultimate spamming mages for hours.

    It stopped being a thing when LHC released with OP OP party play.

    Either way, it ceased to be a problem a solid decade before the "solution" was ever added. Thus, they remain pointless nuisances.
  • xparasite9xparasite9
    Reactions: 1,900
    Posts: 188
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Kishin Shoukan as a spawnrate increaser is not the issue by itself. If Kishin Shoukan were the problem, Nexon would be threatening to get rid of Frenzy Totem as well.
    The problem is coming from an artificial inflation of connected players due to the fact that every serious player is running two computers to train, one of which is a Kanna mule. 20% of connected characters at all times are Kannas.
    ShadEight wrote: »
    The problem with this is that nexon's intention for Kishin could very well be to nerf it to JMS levels (which I suspect IS what they're going for)
    If they end up doing this, it will make the problem even worse, because now there will be five kannas per map instead of one.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
    Posts: 3,553
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    edited February 2019
    xparasite9 wrote: »
    Kishin Shoukan as a spawnrate increaser is not the issue by itself. If Kishin Shoukan were the problem, Nexon would be threatening to get rid of Frenzy Totem as well.
    The problem is coming from an artificial inflation of connected players due to the fact that every serious player is running two computers to train, one of which is a Kanna mule. 20% of connected characters at all times are Kannas.
    ShadEight wrote: »
    The problem with this is that nexon's intention for Kishin could very well be to nerf it to JMS levels (which I suspect IS what they're going for)
    If they end up doing this, it will make the problem even worse, because now there will be five kannas per map instead of one.

    According to Dennis's memo post from a ways ago, the problem isn't kishin tself, but rather the fact that kishin is active in something like a hundred-plus maps on every single channel at once that's causing the problems.

    I still believe that removing it outright is nothing more than a kneejerk reaction to a problem. And as we've seen in the past, all it's going to do is make bots shift to another class. It used to be demon slayers, then blaze wizards and now kannas and arks. If you take away one, they'll just move on to another.
    Fuhreakdarik
  • iLiMiTaDoiLiMiTaDo
    Reactions: 1,435
    Posts: 54
    Member
    edited February 2019
    The solution is to re-kanna an event character such as Zero and increase the Kishin Shoukan skill only for 220+ level use.