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Discussion: "Both" Tab in Rankings

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  • StarryKnightStarryKnight
    Reactions: 1,625
    Posts: 116
    Member
    edited February 2019
    The EXP rates are not so disparate between reboot and regular servers once you account for the differences between the servers.

    If you play on a regular server, Nexon assumes you're doing the following:
    Scrolling your gear (reg)
    Cubing your gear (both)
    Flaming your gear (both)
    Starforcing your gear (both)


    There are benefits to players on regular servers. Such as 2x exp coupons that stack with all other in game coupons (mvp, runes, 2x) which can be purchased from the cash sop. The ability to scroll your gear, which can easily net an extra 100 more attack than the same weapon on reboot. I think nexon assumes that if you're playing in a pay to win server, you're maximizing your opportunity to succeed, which kinda means what it sounds like... paying to win. Its hard to be unfunded on a reg server.

    The problem with that, is that Maplestory is actually really really expensive when you play on a pay to win server. To make a character on a p2w server that is comparable to any one of the those characters on the top 50 in reboot would likely cost well over a thousand dollars, and that's just for cubing every potential and bonus potential to legendary with good potentials. Yes you can buy cubes with reward points, but it takes an average of like 30 cubes to tier up from unique to legendary, and you only get 10 a month, meaning a single piece of gear might take 3+ months to get legendary, if you're not spending any money. That's approximately 5 years to get all your gear to legendary using only reward points, and that's not including getting them from rare to unique, or how many cubes it takes to get a really good roll on a stat, which could take 100's of cubes. Meaning if you have bad luck, it could take 20 years or longer to get every gear to legendary with good potentials, using only reward points.

    In reality, a lot of players on regular servers are young, and don't have a job, or parent's willing to plunk down thousands of dollars just so their kid can one shot the monsters in CLP. Most people on pay to win servers aren't willing or able to spend the amount of money nexon has ultimately designed the game to be needed to reach end-game. If people in regular servers are not spending the amount of money needed to maximize their gear, then it's no surprise people in reboot are topping the list, as they have spend hundreds of hours farming hundreds of billions of meso to pay for cubes and flames and starforce, not to mention farming droplets for arcane weapons, and nodes to max 5th job skills, etc etc. Where people in regular servers can literally buy those, or the materials needed, in the auction house.

    Because of this, there is an inherent issue of perspective, people on regular serves will simply assume the top players on reboot are botting/hacking, and therefore not legitimate, but I expect Nexon pay's particularly close attention to the top players, keeping an eye out for suspicious activity. You can be pretty sure the ones still on that list are probably not cheaters. That said, I imagine most, if not all people who play consistently, automate gameplay in some way, whether its putting a weight on a keyboard button, or using a keyboard with programmable buttons to automate common keypress sequences.

    So basically, what I'm suggesting is that people are typically behind reboot servers in progression primarily because they are not maximizing their opportunity for success, meaning:
    not spending enough money on 2x coupons
    not spending enough money on cubes
    not spending enough money on maplepoints, which can be traded for meso, which can be used to buy materials or equipment from the auction house.

    For this reason, I don't really see a problem with "both" being listed. If you're willing to spend the money, reg servers can definitely level faster than reboot, reboot simply forces players to trade spending money for spending time.
    FuhreakWONDERGUYSandyLerrow
  • AKradianAKradian
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    So basically, what I'm suggesting is that people are typically behind reboot servers in progression primarily because they are not maximizing their opportunity for success, meaning:
    not spending enough money on 2x coupons
    not spending enough money on cubes
    not spending enough money on maplepoints, which can be traded for meso, which can be used to buy materials or equipment from the auction house.

    For this reason, I don't really see a problem with "both" being listed. If you're willing to spend the money, reg servers can definitely level faster than reboot, reboot simply forces players to trade spending money for spending time.

    You really need to read up on something before writing an essay about it.

    Cash shop 2x coupons are currently disabled for levels higher than 250. The "pay2win" worlds can't compete with Reboot, and not because everyone there happens to be too poor to buy 2x coupons.

    As for "spending on cubes" - everyone in the 275 race, from all worlds, is one-hitting all the enemies they train on.
    FuhreakHHG1Sam016
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    AKradian wrote: »
    Cash shop 2x coupons are currently disabled for levels higher than 250. The "pay2win" worlds can't compete with Reboot, and not because everyone there happens to be too poor to buy 2x coupons.

    Is it in your opinion that with these items players from non-reboot would be allowed to hit 275 faster (than reboot)?
    I'm not sure on the availability of these items. I know you get at least 2 free per month from rewards.
    But not sure if there are pay2win versions of it. As much as I dislike pay to win stuff, why aren't the pay to win servers being allowed to pay to win?
    It seems a bit weird to just suddenly change the rules.
    If you're going to let players pay to gain advantage, let them pay to gain advantage?
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 39,145
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Cash shop 2x coupons are currently disabled for levels higher than 250. The "pay2win" worlds can't compete with Reboot, and not because everyone there happens to be too poor to buy 2x coupons.

    Is it in your opinion that with these items players from non-reboot would be allowed to hit 275 faster (than reboot)?
    I'm not sure on the availability of these items. I know you get at least 2 free per month from rewards.
    But not sure if there are pay2win versions of it. As much as I dislike pay to win stuff, why aren't the pay to win servers being allowed to pay to win?
    It seems a bit weird to just suddenly change the rules.
    If you're going to let players pay to gain advantage, let them pay to gain advantage?

    There is nothing in the Rewards Shop that doesn't exist in the normal Cash Shop. If Cash Shop 2x were available at level 250+, people could have it on 24/7 for about $100 a month.

    Nexon didn't tell us the reasoning for disabling the coupons, so this is my own speculation:

    When the level cap was raised from 200 to 250, characters above 200 were not allowed to use cash shop 2x coupons. This was intended to give non-paying (or less-paying) players a fair chance at this race. It might also have been intended to slow down progression, so people won't reach 250 easily and then quit because there's nothing more to do in the game.
    After enough people reached 250, the cash coupons were enabled again.
    Back then there was no Reboot, so everyone really was on equal footing, at least as far as EXP was concerned.

    I believe that Nexon disabled cash 2x for 250+ without thinking about it too much, just because it was done before. However, the existence of Reboot - and the "Both" Ranking tab - renders both of the reasons I cited for the 200+ 2x block, invalid for 250+.
    Sam016Fuhreak
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
    Reactions: 5,950
    Posts: 747
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »

    Is it in your opinion that with these items players from non-reboot would be allowed to hit 275 faster (than reboot)?
    I'm not sure on the availability of these items. I know you get at least 2 free per month from rewards.
    But not sure if there are pay2win versions of it. As much as I dislike pay to win stuff, why aren't the pay to win servers being allowed to pay to win?
    It seems a bit weird to just suddenly change the rules.
    If you're going to let players pay to gain advantage, let them pay to gain advantage?

    Reboot should still level faster from 250-275 even if normal servers could have 2x coupons.

    The underlying issue is the massively higher base exp which cascades into every additive bonus.

    Sure if we could have 2x coupons we get a bonus line equivalent to the exp of the mob but our HS, spirit pendant, legion grid, runes, potions, mvp, class-specific buffs are still going off the low base exp. These are all 2.3x higher in reboot.

    If we want to bring reboot and normal closer together normal servers also need high hp high exp mobs as options. Note I did say *if* we want to... do we? It's up to nexon mostly but the players should also speak up.

    At any rate the two servers aren't even close in exp rates and putting them together on the ranks is laughable.
    Sam016
  • HHG1HHG1
    Reactions: 5,966
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    Even if the servers were closer together in progression pace, I still stand by that they should be on separate rankings entirely just because of the differences in progression. It's not a matter of which server is faster to 275, even by margin, it's a matter of whether they should be lumped together on the same rankings while playing under vastly different circumstances.
    Most of the people I've talked to do not care if Reboot gets 275 first, as long as the rankings are separated so that this difference is clear. As it is now it only creates animosity.
    Sam016JushiroNet
  • OjamaOjama
    Reactions: 840
    Posts: 13
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    So basically, what I'm suggesting is that people are typically behind reboot servers in progression primarily because they are not maximizing their opportunity for success, meaning:
    not spending enough money on 2x coupons
    not spending enough money on cubes
    not spending enough money on maplepoints, which can be traded for meso, which can be used to buy materials or equipment from the auction house.
    .

    So you are saying that the majority in reg server can't 1hit the mobs and thats why we can't get as fast exp? or did i missunderstood something?
    Cause not spending enough money on 2x coupons, well as stated by someone else they can't be bought after you are 250
    not spending enough money on cubes, would only increase your dmg more
    not spending enough money on maplepoints to sell for mesos to get upgrade your gear, which again would only increase your dmg more

    i am pretty sure no one in reg can come even close to reboot's rates no matter how much money they throw at cubes and maplepoints
    Sam016
  • Sam016Sam016
    Reactions: 1,480
    Posts: 57
    Member
    edited February 2019
    SadVirgin wrote: »
    Even if the servers were closer together in progression pace, I still stand by that they should be on separate rankings entirely just because of the differences in progression. It's not a matter of which server is faster to 275, even by margin, it's a matter of whether they should be lumped together on the same rankings while playing under vastly different circumstances.
    Most of the people I've talked to do not care if Reboot gets 275 first, as long as the rankings are separated so that this difference is clear. As it is now it only creates animosity.

    Exactly, we all know very well reboot will reach 275 regardless of us having 2x coupons or not. We just don't want to be compared to them when the servers are so vastly different. There's too many comments here twisting the reasoning we want the removal for
  • Sam016Sam016
    Reactions: 1,480
    Posts: 57
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Sam016 wrote: »
    And the complaining about the "Both" Tab continues. Just manually select which tab you want. Problem solved partially.

    I think the only thing continuing here is your ignorance unfortunately...

    Majority of this thread for the removal of it

    You are telling me I'm ignorant only because I'm just pointing out people like you are still complaining about an extra tab? Which you can solve partially by manually selecting a Tab how ironic? You are one of those people who make small problems into big ones. Basically throwing tantrums.

    You're completely redirecting the reason we want that removed, people have explained the reason we want the removal multiple times yet you still go back to clicking a different tab. The whole thread is about that tab and all you're doing is trivialising our reason.

    Now I don't want any pointless arguments as that will result in this thread being locked which is the last thing we want, I wish Nexon would comment on this soon as it has been going on for awhile now
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited February 2019
    Ojama wrote: »
    i am pretty sure no one in reg can come even close to reboot's rates no matter how much money they throw at cubes and maplepoints

    Yes and the reason why is because we cap out way earlier. Normal server mobs have low hp/low exp.
  • SandyLerrowSandyLerrow
    Reactions: 550
    Posts: 16
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Sam016 wrote: »
    Sam016 wrote: »
    And the complaining about the "Both" Tab continues. Just manually select which tab you want. Problem solved partially.

    I think the only thing continuing here is your ignorance unfortunately...

    Majority of this thread for the removal of it

    You are telling me I'm ignorant only because I'm just pointing out people like you are still complaining about an extra tab? Which you can solve partially by manually selecting a Tab how ironic? You are one of those people who make small problems into big ones. Basically throwing tantrums.

    You're completely redirecting the reason we want that removed, people have explained the reason we want the removal multiple times yet you still go back to clicking a different tab. The whole thread is about that tab and all you're doing is trivialising our reason.

    Now I don't want any pointless arguments as that will result in this thread being locked which is the last thing we want, I wish Nexon would comment on this soon as it has been going on for awhile now

    First and foremost the "Reboot" and "Non-Reboot" Tab doesn't work properly because you cant search in it(you need to do that manually and that only works for the "Reboot" Tab) , because it will still redirect you to the "Both" Tab. That is something I also think that needs to be fixed. If they were to remove the "Both" Tab now I think another problem will arise. You didn't even paid attention to that, yet here you are telling me I'm trivializing the main reason why it needs to be removed. Again I'm neutral and on no one's side, so I could care less what will happen to it. I think the whole ranking system needs a revamp because there are some things that don't even work.
  • AsianFTGzAsianFTGz
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    JuSt ReMeMbEr EuRoPe MaPlEStOrY hAs LuNa RaNk AnD rEbOoT rAnK sEpArAtE
  • AsianFTGzAsianFTGz
    Reactions: 600
    Posts: 4
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    "Man I'm under educated"

    Reads the forum with people who don't understand the difference between normal servers and rebutt servers

    surprise-pikachu-meme-000-original-blank.png
  • AsianFTGzAsianFTGz
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    image0.png
  • iLiMiTaDoiLiMiTaDo
    Reactions: 1,225
    Posts: 48
    Member
    edited February 2019
    The option Both must be removed and a search option must be added for DualBlade, in kms it exists !!
  • iLiMiTaDoiLiMiTaDo
    Reactions: 1,225
    Posts: 48
    Member
    edited February 2019
    It hurts me to be compared in the same group of the NighLord, to climb a DualBlade is more difficult and I do not change work, because my heart is DualBlade f3.

    Glory to the DualBlade, the best work of MapleStory now and always !!
  • RiisyRiisy
    Reactions: 520
    Posts: 2
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    This may annoy some people, but why on earth would Nexon call it "Overall" when you want to change this up so it wouldn't be the "overall" ranking of the person. Yes, there could be room for an "overall non-reboot" category in the NA region. However, this shouldn't affect the "Overall" ranking status in my opinion. Then also the remaining category of "overall" as a perspective to the whole NA region's side of the game.
    There's no need for the same change to be implemented in the EU side because there isn't a high enough demand to play the game to warrant an additional world being added.
  • Sam016Sam016
    Reactions: 1,480
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    edited February 2019
    The memo mentioned they'll still read feedback apparently though with no exact time frame for a decision
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited February 2019
    Less than a month since level cap raise and reboot already fills the front page. Going to take more than twice as long for the first 275 normal server.

    Somehow this will be considered fair and balanced.
  • GhibleeGhiblee
    Reactions: 3,285
    Posts: 457
    Administrator, Moderator, Nexon
    edited February 2019
    Hello!
    First, thank you to everyone who commented! We read every single comment and appreciated everyone for sharing your opinions!
    As a small update, we have compiled all the feedbacks and have been discussing with the team.
    We'll keep this discussion open for now for those who would still like to share their opinions. :)
    Thank you!