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We all want a merge

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  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,955
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited June 2018
    I am from kradia. I'm stuck on this server with few players to play with, its kind of depressing. when will there be another world tranfer/leap anyone knows?

    You're not alone brother, the majority (probably 99% of maplers, you can ask players in Scania, Bera, etc, everyone will tell you that they wants to merge, except a very very very few people.....) wants to merge all the worlds into Bera, so we'd end up with 2 worlds only, and they're Bera and Reboot, 2 worlds in GMS shouldn't be enough, to be honest, but that's way better than the current situation.

    Also be careful when using caps, talking about the biggest problem in GMS (the insane amount of botters/hackers) or else you might get a warning/ban (just like my friend did) or maybe your thread will simply move to "Rants and Raves", why? because you used caps, so be careful... and I know it sounds a little bit like a dictatorship but unfortunately, we have no choice, this is the situation we are in.
    Let's hope for the best and LET the merge begin.
    Acgnolia wrote: »
    Bro, there is already a huge thread on this

    Careful when using caps, talking about hackers or other big problems that we have in the game or else you might get banned/warning.
    Just like my friend did -_-
    The thread will most likely get merged, not moved to rant and rave since it isnt a rant, and stop scaring new people joining the forum with talks of them getting banned for voicing their opinions. Moreover, stop using these exagerated numbers like "99% of maplers" more than 60% already make up Bera and Reboot. So exactly how can it be 99% of maplers. you have to offer context on the thread your friend did and how he or she presented the thread/discussion. We dont know how your friend wrote the post.

    p.s Acgnolia this thread is about a world transfer, not a merge. So there's that technicality.
  • rizariza
    Reactions: 2,745
    Posts: 584
    Member
    edited June 2018
    WZrk wrote: »
    riza wrote: »
    No point in debating with them, all they do is repeat "merge all worlds into Bera" and hope it rallies followers, without offering sound reasoning behind it. Just like the protests of today.
    You can be united all you want, but when there's no sound reasoning behind the action, there's nothing to really listen to.

    bro what do you mean by no point of debating why is this thread open then? merging all the worlds into bera is dumb cause there too many hackers. just merge all the worlds together and rename the server then. that way no one will get sour about it. also the sound reason to merging all the worlds is to protect the interest of nexon all together and players. if 100 players our of 1 million want to stay on their own the majority wins. we the majority want a world merge if 100 people quit its all good cause its only 100 vs 1 million. this is actually a sound reason that is un debatable cause it makes sense. minority vs majority. majority will always win. take my notes and comments from before. merge all the worlds but reboot into one and rename it. get in game security to manually record and ban all hackers and anyone breaking tos agreements. if nexon america cant do it bring in the korean death team at least they got it together. note this isn't nexon hate speech this is recommendations and constructive criticism. remember the 100 people i can Empathize with you guys cause a few of my maple people don't want their servers to be left be but the majority has spoken we want a merge. ALSO I WANT TO SEE TIFA SENSEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No point in debating with people who continually pull the "majority" card and grab other baseless claims out of thin air. It isn't sound reasoning if you have no way to prove that this is what the majority wants besides using a couple of forum threads. Add in the fact that people who use this excuse usually don't have solid reasons why there should be a merge besides "this world is dead" and don't state ways to fix the situation, and there's nothing substantial to discuss. Although you're on the "majority" train, you seem to have provided a point to discuss, so I'll address that.

    Banning bots manually is like stepping on bugs one at a time when you have an infestation. The people that program them are more resilient than you give them credit for. Nexon would have to actually have some way of banning them correctly and make it hard for them to come back; from what I've seen, it's as easy as ever to create an account and their past attempts at using software to ban bots have been incredibly shaky (aka I have no confidence in them to get either of these done right).

    Bring in the Korean death team simple
  • PeepPeep
    Reactions: 3,950
    Posts: 355
    Member
    edited June 2018
    DSpellGuy wrote: »
    riza wrote: »
    ...but the majority has spoken we want a merge. ALSO I WANT TO SEE TIFA SENSEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    the majority that are on the forums, keep in mind that not all players use the forums. Your numbers are as fudged as the us political vote results. Context here - the majority of the forum users are rallying on it.

    As for the whole thing, why not just go with what another suggested and alliance more up and see how that goes? Better yet, why don't we push for more means of dealing with the botters [I know some people have left the game as they got sick of the botters and nothing seemed to change when they reported often] before a merge or alliance change?

    and I keep seeing people going on about MMORPG and how it can't be if there's not a population - the numbers will not change for the game itself - it's still the same number of people just on different worlds/alliances/etc. So by that definition, it's still a MMORPG. I'm game for trying to up the number of players seeing one another, but I also want the botters dealt with, better quests [to lead to party play again] and maybe make some bosses require an actual party of 3+ players to go in to fight it.

    While his comment makes it sound like he's simply pulling statistics out of his arse there's some truth to it.

    I will say from the people I've talked to on my own server, I have yet to come across one that didn't want a merge or server alliance merge. I'm sure there are a few out there but it would definitely be a minority. There's been a lot of discussion in the past when the population was higher and even more on the discord. There are a lot of people who want one now more than ever. Why? well simply due to the disaster that was transfers that happened last year. This left many servers close to empty as they put no limitations on Bera. A lot of these servers were already in need of a merge and became 10x worse than they were before.

    As for the whole botter thing. I've been making threads attacking Nexon about that for years. Many agreed with me in those threads and they got a lot of traction in the past but not much seems to come from it on Nexon's end. Now you have these new updates coming through that just make it 1000x easier for botters and hackers. The change to the hyper teleport rock as one example. We can't teleport to people we suspect are cheating anymore when they appear offline. The change that came with this update to login offline. This sort of crap was already available with hacks but now they're allowing players to do it without using them. There's a couple more but you get the idea. It honestly feels like they're trying to make it so we don't bother anymore. They've given hackers all the tools to pretty much never get caught and now I'm 100% sure the amount of reports on hackers has gone down for Nexon tremendously. Not because there are less hackers and botters but because nobody is ever going to find them anymore.

    The hacker and botter thing is a huge issue and an ongoing one but not one I feel is more important than a merge for lower pop servers at this time.

    Playing on a close to empty server feels more like a single player game than a MMO, thus the comment. Just because the population is the same across all servers does not mean it is the same on every server. This isn't really about "seeing other people" running past etc. This is more about gameplay and events. On a dead server it's very hard to organize groups for content. On a dead server it's very hard for events like flag race or bingo to start. This is content that becomes unaccessible because of the lower population.

    This is a huge problem and why mergers or alliance mergers are absolutely needed ASAP. Servers like Bera are probably fine but servers like MYBCKN, GRAZED and Broni are in dire need of help.


  • rizariza
    Reactions: 2,745
    Posts: 584
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Dude I speak to the community on a daily in discord, forums, and even outside games. I don't speak unless what I say has something to back it up. Majority of the new people who came to bera were people who got left behind I also visit other servers and speak to people from them. Nexon messed up and they know it also, there are some people who are against it I speak to. I'm part of both the ms2 community and ms1 so I have a great understanding as I'm in almost all guild and ally discords and involve in these discussions. You say I don't know nexon big picture but I actually do, I feel nexon probably had this transfer event to force people to go into ms2. As majority of the people who filed the ms2 community were old players or the ones who got left behind in transfer how I know I'm friends with "majority" of them. Nexon end goal or any goal always revolves money. And that's why the decisions and things happening aren't smart. If they had interest of the players in mind they would of never had a transfer. Also those in bera don't Care about world merges or transfer most in that server if involve in the market only care about money. Only a few honest maplers who are I there to play the game and embodies the true spirit of the game. But overall nexon America should ask korra to fix this while they can't do it themselves. Merge all the world's and implement my ideas which makes the most sense while no one here in this thread but a few were able to make. Instead of talking about what does or doesn't make sense lets talks solutions and plans of action and not only talk about but actually do what we say. Remember I put in quote "This isn't nexon hate speech this is constructive critism and ideas for the future"
  • rizariza
    Reactions: 2,745
    Posts: 584
    Member
    edited June 2018
    DSpellGuy wrote: »
    riza wrote: »
    ...but the majority has spoken we want a merge. ALSO I WANT TO SEE TIFA SENSEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    the majority that are on the forums, keep in mind that not all players use the forums. Your numbers are as fudged as the us political vote results. Context here - the majority of the forum users are rallying on it.

    As for the whole thing, why not just go with what another suggested and alliance more up and see how that goes? Better yet, why don't we push for more means of dealing with the botters [I know some people have left the game as they got sick of the botters and nothing seemed to change when they reported often] before a merge or alliance change?

    and I keep seeing people going on about MMORPG and how it can't be if there's not a population - the numbers will not change for the game itself - it's still the same number of people just on different worlds/alliances/etc. So by that definition, it's still a MMORPG. I'm game for trying to up the number of players seeing one another, but I also want the botters dealt with, better quests [to lead to party play again] and maybe make some bosses require an actual party of 3+ players to go in to fight it.

    When I talk majority i mean forums, ms1,ms2 , discord and other platforms. I'm very involve and almost everywhere and it's most of what I said they have the means to make this game great again but simply either choose to not try or just don't care what ever the reason is this is why this thread exist. We need ideas and plans for action this is why debates exist to explore and dive into a topic and find means to solve the issue some people as I seen are only talking about what can't be done as opposed to what can be done. I know vfm and gms have their limitation of power but there are things that they can and we in the community can do to get them to fix the game but it requires everyone to stop fighting and caring for themselves and actually work together for a end goal. I listed alot of ideas and seen others post some good ones as well I seen some people just talking behind and stuff but they are entitled to do so. But like I said nexon has means for solving bot issue but it requires the community to work together whether if the people like each other or not to solve this issue as it takes a majority to make a change. "This isn't nexon hate speech this is constructive critism and ideas for the future"
  • MarmilaidousMarmilaidous
    Reactions: 510
    Posts: 68
    Member
    edited June 2018
    I must ask - why not just start a new character on a more populated world, like Bera, Reboot, etc.? What is the urgency for world transfer?
    Unless you are level 200+, in such case I can understand why you wouldn't want to start over.
    But considering all the events that boost Leveling up and EXP boosts, reaching level 200, by itself, isn't going to take as long as it used to be.
    Besides, I suggest adding a Cash Shop item to allow world transfer individually for those who are interested, not affecting the entire world population of a certain world.
    TachikawaHiyoko
  • TrystarrTrystarr
    Reactions: 1,350
    Posts: 64
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.
  • cheezburger85cheezburger85
    Reactions: 1,190
    Posts: 79
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Peep wrote: »
    DSpellGuy wrote: »
    riza wrote: »
    ...but the majority has spoken we want a merge. ALSO I WANT TO SEE TIFA SENSEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    the majority that are on the forums, keep in mind that not all players use the forums. Your numbers are as fudged as the us political vote results. Context here - the majority of the forum users are rallying on it.

    As for the whole thing, why not just go with what another suggested and alliance more up and see how that goes? Better yet, why don't we push for more means of dealing with the botters [I know some people have left the game as they got sick of the botters and nothing seemed to change when they reported often] before a merge or alliance change?

    and I keep seeing people going on about MMORPG and how it can't be if there's not a population - the numbers will not change for the game itself - it's still the same number of people just on different worlds/alliances/etc. So by that definition, it's still a MMORPG. I'm game for trying to up the number of players seeing one another, but I also want the botters dealt with, better quests [to lead to party play again] and maybe make some bosses require an actual party of 3+ players to go in to fight it.

    While his comment makes it sound like he's simply pulling statistics out of his arse there's some truth to it.

    I will say from the people I've talked to on my own server, I have yet to come across one that didn't want a merge or server alliance merge. I'm sure there are a few out there but it would definitely be a minority. There's been a lot of discussion in the past when the population was higher and even more on the discord. There are a lot of people who want one now more than ever. Why? well simply due to the disaster that was transfers that happened last year. This left many servers close to empty as they put no limitations on Bera. A lot of these servers were already in need of a merge and became 10x worse than they were before.

    As for the whole botter thing. I've been making threads attacking Nexon about that for years. Many agreed with me in those threads and they got a lot of traction in the past but not much seems to come from it on Nexon's end. Now you have these new updates coming through that just make it 1000x easier for botters and hackers. The change to the hyper teleport rock as one example. We can't teleport to people we suspect are cheating anymore when they appear offline. The change that came with this update to login offline. This sort of crap was already available with hacks but now they're allowing players to do it without using them. There's a couple more but you get the idea. It honestly feels like they're trying to make it so we don't bother anymore. They've given hackers all the tools to pretty much never get caught and now I'm 100% sure the amount of reports on hackers has gone down for Nexon tremendously. Not because there are less hackers and botters but because nobody is ever going to find them anymore.

    The hacker and botter thing is a huge issue and an ongoing one but not one I feel is more important than a merge for lower pop servers at this time.

    Playing on a close to empty server feels more like a single player game than a MMO, thus the comment. Just because the population is the same across all servers does not mean it is the same on every server. This isn't really about "seeing other people" running past etc. This is more about gameplay and events. On a dead server it's very hard to organize groups for content. On a dead server it's very hard for events like flag race or bingo to start. This is content that becomes unaccessible because of the lower population.

    This is a huge problem and why mergers or alliance mergers are absolutely needed ASAP. Servers like Bera are probably fine but servers like MYBCKN, GRAZED and Broni are in dire need of help.


    "I have yet to come across one that didn't want a merge or server alliance merge", I've been asking around 30 people and yet, everyone said they want merge, not a single person said the opposite.... and yeah as you said, there must be a very very few people who doesn't want merge but that's like, really really really minority.... I'm telling you, those people who are against us here in this forum are probably just 3-4 people who continue to make more and more accounts..... -_-
    LET the merge begin NexoN!!! F5.
  • TachikawaHiyokoTachikawaHiyoko
    Reactions: 1,290
    Posts: 68
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU
    DSpellGuy
  • NicholasBNicholasB
    Reactions: 1,195
    Posts: 79
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU

    No, if they will not merge, they'll lose players much much faster, most of my friends (from Scania) has quit already, why? because they're tired of being in an empty world, they're tired of being in a world where the economy is very very bad, and u can't find ANYTHING in Auction House....
    And believe me, people will continue to quit, but it'd be much much better (not perfect, nothing will be perfect, there are always cons anywhere, but there'd be A LOT more cons if you don't merge worlds, and much much fewer cons and problems if you merge worlds now, in other words, the situation would be 10x better than our current situation) if we merge worlds NOW and ASAP!
  • TrystarrTrystarr
    Reactions: 1,350
    Posts: 64
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU

    I understand there are people on both sides of the table here. That's why I initially stated there should be a merged server, as well as 1 less populated server to accommodate more people. There shouldn't be five unpopulated servers. Would you not be satisfied with that solution? the most you could lose is the name of your home server, and I don't think that's enough to make you quit if you still have the type of community you prefer.

    There are definitely a variety of reasons this game has underpopulated servers. I don't think its attracting any brand new players to be frank. A lot of the players are getting older and moving on. This is exactly why Nexon has to constantly be accommodating the population changes. If they are more on top of ensuring 5 of their 6 non-reboot servers aren't dying they would minimize their potential losses. There would be 1 less reason to quit this game, as I personally know nearly a dozen people who have quit Windia because of this problem.

    I have been pretty active in Windia for the last 6 months. I know its anecdotal, but I am constantly hearing people complain about the population. Between my experience in game and the popularity of this thread, I am definitely noticing a pattern. I understand a lot of the views are from the same people, however I also understand the view count of these threads on Nexon forums rarely get to 4 digits.

    It is an overstatement for you to claim my argument is fallacious, or an argumentum ad populum. There is no objective truth to this problem as it is a entirely subjective, personal preference. If there are a lot of people complaining about the population, that is an objective fact, it doesn't infer they could be wrong about said population problem. People can perceive anything as a problem, but in this case there are certainly a lot of people who, in their opinion, see a problem with the population. accommodating that at least to the point where there aren't 5 dead servers should be a priority. For business and for the maple community.
    DarkMush
  • TachikawaHiyokoTachikawaHiyoko
    Reactions: 1,290
    Posts: 68
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU

    I understand there are people on both sides of the table here. That's why I initially stated there should be a merged server, as well as 1 less populated server to accommodate more people. There shouldn't be five unpopulated servers. Would you not be satisfied with that solution? the most you could lose is the name of your home server, and I don't think that's enough to make you quit if you still have the type of community you prefer.

    To answer your question, personally, no, I wouldn't like to be in a server that's not overly populated but that stops being Windia, I wouldn't be satisfied with that. If that were to happen, I would have to evaluate if it was worth it for me, personally, to continue playing. Windia is my home and it has its problems and its perks, but I like it how it is.



    Trystarr wrote: »
    It is an overstatement for you to claim my argument is fallacious, or an argumentum ad populum. There is no objective truth to this problem as it is a entirely subjective, personal preference. If there are a lot of people complaining about the population, that is an objective fact, it doesn't infer they could be wrong about said population problem. People can perceive anything as a problem, but in this case there are certainly a lot of people who, in their opinion, see a problem with the population. accommodating that at least to the point where there aren't 5 dead servers should be a priority. For business and for the maple community.

    I didn't mean *your* argument in particular. I meant anyone who claims to know what the "majority" wants, be it to defend the merge idea or the anti-merge idea. Anyone who says "The majority wants this" or "The majority does that" or "They should do this now because the overwhelming majority wants this" (like I've read countless times in this thread) is being fallacious because *no one* can actually know for a fact what the "majority" wants or which majority are we talking about. That is the very definition of an argumentum ad populum: claiming that something must be true or right because "most people" or "many people" or "the majority" believes it to be true or right. :P But I didn't mean it as an individual attack against your argument in particular or anything. If someone who is against the world merging, like me, came saying "THE MAJORITY WANTS TO STAY LIKE THIS" they would be fallacious too. ;) If I said that, I would be fallacious. So, yeah, for me, at least, any argument that claims to know what the "majority" wants, particularly without even bothering to define which "majority" are they referring to (but even if they did define it), is fallacious to me. We can all take responsibility and say what we personally think, but nothing more than that, because even our theoretical facts may be wrong or incomplete or something. Nevertheless, we can still talk all we want, as long as we keep in mind that our opinions are as valid as the ones of the other people, even if they are contrary to what we want/think.

    Sure, we have opinions, we have what we think are facts, we have the right to talk about this until our fingers fall off our hands. But no one knows for sure what the "majority" actually IS, what does it want and, regardless of that, what will Nexon will actually do about this, if they end up doing anything. And, more importantly than any talk, in my opinion, is the fact that, when the time comes and they do make a decision one way or the other (or come up with a decision that meets both extremes in the middle or whatever), each of us will have to decide if it's worth to continue playing the game or not. That's all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • TachikawaHiyokoTachikawaHiyoko
    Reactions: 1,290
    Posts: 68
    Member
    edited June 2018
    NicholasB wrote: »
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU

    No, if they will not merge, they'll lose players much much faster, most of my friends (from Scania) has quit already, why? because they're tired of being in an empty world, they're tired of being in a world where the economy is very very bad, and u can't find ANYTHING in Auction House....
    And believe me, people will continue to quit, but it'd be much much better (not perfect, nothing will be perfect, there are always cons anywhere, but there'd be A LOT more cons if you don't merge worlds, and much much fewer cons and problems if you merge worlds now, in other words, the situation would be 10x better than our current situation) if we merge worlds NOW and ASAP!

    Well, my friend, *you think* that based on your friends and your own personal opinion. *I think* that they stand to lose players in both cases and that it isn't so clear that only a world merge will solve all the problems. Please, feel free to continue thinking what you want, while I do the same. :) Time and Nexon will tell who will actually continue to play this game regardless of how this gets addressed, if it does. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • KushyDragonKushyDragon
    Reactions: 1,715
    Posts: 135
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Acgnolia wrote: »
    2600 wrote: »
    Safe to say the decline in MapleStory is mainly due to the fact that a good percent of the player base has grown up and had to move on to adult things thus the lack of players in the game.
    There are many other things that are causing the decline as well, I'm sure it has to do with the lack of stuff to do, limited to doing most bosses once a week or once a day, lack of in-game content that allows you to do more then train and boss.

    MapleStory 2 Closed Beta was interesting how their were mini-games like X & O and Soul Survivor I think it was called?
    The only downfall about MapleStory2 that looks like will happen is how easy it is to level up just doing quests only thing left to do after that is craft stuff or make your gear better and that's just a short amount of stuff I mention because I don't feel like ranting anymore in this post wanna do do something else so that's where I end this for now.

    No the decline in population is not due to "people getting older" it started when they made party play leveling almost irrelevant in the Unleashed update. Since then many negative changes have been made (ones many people didn't want) . In addition the game crashes /freezes that still happen + the bugs. Lack of communication is another one . Party quests still have bugs which make pqs uncompletable at times. Sure they made some party quests better but they nerfed stuff like R+J into the ground ,removed party play training maps for higher players (Added them for low levels, which aren't even relevant) The buffs to certain party quests came to late as majority of people left the game already who like that aspect. Many people left for private servers because of the negative changes and lack of party play aspects.

    Saying the game has "nothing to do" is laughable you have plenty of things outside bossing and training. It's just not many people do them..

    If we agree the population has decreased regardless of the reason, can we also agree that the number of servers should decrease as well (we don't have to agree on the exact number of servers), to prevent whatever the population is from being spread to thin over so many servers

    Of course , I am all for a merge playing in El Nido (GRAZED) at time you see more bots gold selling in henesys than actual people..

    I really don't understand why there are still a few people in here don't wanna merge... I understand their want a tiny server where they can play without interruption but still, what about the overwhelming majority like us? I think if we have only 2 options, either merge or not, then of course we must merge.... this is what the overwhelming majority wants and this is what should and must get...
    Or maybe just 3 worlds, a big world such as Bera, and the tiny world such as Scania and the 3rd world which is Reboot, so then people who wants tiny server would go to Scania and those who want great economy with high population will go to Bera, this is so simple...

    Psst, broseph....

    You could have been like all the others and bounced to bera when you had a chance.


    Also I'm a part of GRAZED too, but I moved there from Scania in 2015.

    I'd rather GRAZED be left alone entirely, and everywhere else get merged.

    Leave one dead alliance for those who like to solo train.

    Last thing I need in my life, is to do what I did in Scania 95% of the time, and channel / map change through 20 channels just so I can train for an hour properly.


    Acgnolia wrote: »
    2600 wrote: »
    Safe to say the decline in MapleStory is mainly due to the fact that a good percent of the player base has grown up and had to move on to adult things thus the lack of players in the game.
    There are many other things that are causing the decline as well, I'm sure it has to do with the lack of stuff to do, limited to doing most bosses once a week or once a day, lack of in-game content that allows you to do more then train and boss.

    MapleStory 2 Closed Beta was interesting how their were mini-games like X & O and Soul Survivor I think it was called?
    The only downfall about MapleStory2 that looks like will happen is how easy it is to level up just doing quests only thing left to do after that is craft stuff or make your gear better and that's just a short amount of stuff I mention because I don't feel like ranting anymore in this post wanna do do something else so that's where I end this for now.

    No the decline in population is not due to "people getting older" it started when they made party play leveling almost irrelevant in the Unleashed update. Since then many negative changes have been made (ones many people didn't want) . In addition the game crashes /freezes that still happen + the bugs. Lack of communication is another one . Party quests still have bugs which make pqs uncompletable at times. Sure they made some party quests better but they nerfed stuff like R+J into the ground ,removed party play training maps for higher players (Added them for low levels, which aren't even relevant) The buffs to certain party quests came to late as majority of people left the game already who like that aspect. Many people left for private servers because of the negative changes and lack of party play aspects.

    Saying the game has "nothing to do" is laughable you have plenty of things outside bossing and training. It's just not many people do them..

    If we agree the population has decreased regardless of the reason, can we also agree that the number of servers should decrease as well (we don't have to agree on the exact number of servers), to prevent whatever the population is from being spread to thin over so many servers

    Of course , I am all for a merge playing in El Nido (GRAZED) at time you see more bots gold selling in henesys than actual people..

    I really don't understand why there are still a few people in here don't wanna merge... I understand their want a tiny server where they can play without interruption but still, what about the overwhelming majority like us? I think if we have only 2 options, either merge or not, then of course we must merge.... this is what the overwhelming majority wants and this is what should and must get...
    Or maybe just 3 worlds, a big world such as Bera, and the tiny world such as Scania and the 3rd world which is Reboot, so then people who wants tiny server would go to Scania and those who want great economy with high population will go to Bera, this is so simple...


    Pssst, broseph, ever heard of dupe wipes?

    Bera's economy is only good because of the dupes flooding the market. You can't tell what's legit and what Isn't anymore.

    Some of us don't need items wiped because no one can tell what's duped and what isn't.

    Also I left Scania because it was a cesspool of trolling, and I have friends in GRAZED.
    TachikawaHiyokoDSpellGuy
  • WZrkWZrk
    Reactions: 990
    Posts: 41
    Member
    edited June 2018
    At least people are making an attempt to try and establish a majority; thank you. But in reality, my point is just being proven. You may speak to dozens of people in different discords, you may speak to a hundred people across different worlds. This establishes the fact that people share the belief that something should be done about the population situation, but in no way does that establish that this is the majority of people currently playing the game, and definitely not the majority of people who would consider coming back to the game.

    riza wrote: »
    WZrk wrote: »
    riza wrote: »
    No point in debating with them, all they do is repeat "merge all worlds into Bera" and hope it rallies followers, without offering sound reasoning behind it. Just like the protests of today.
    You can be united all you want, but when there's no sound reasoning behind the action, there's nothing to really listen to.

    bro what do you mean by no point of debating why is this thread open then? merging all the worlds into bera is dumb cause there too many hackers. just merge all the worlds together and rename the server then. that way no one will get sour about it. also the sound reason to merging all the worlds is to protect the interest of nexon all together and players. if 100 players our of 1 million want to stay on their own the majority wins. we the majority want a world merge if 100 people quit its all good cause its only 100 vs 1 million. this is actually a sound reason that is un debatable cause it makes sense. minority vs majority. majority will always win. take my notes and comments from before. merge all the worlds but reboot into one and rename it. get in game security to manually record and ban all hackers and anyone breaking tos agreements. if nexon america cant do it bring in the korean death team at least they got it together. note this isn't nexon hate speech this is recommendations and constructive criticism. remember the 100 people i can Empathize with you guys cause a few of my maple people don't want their servers to be left be but the majority has spoken we want a merge. ALSO I WANT TO SEE TIFA SENSEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No point in debating with people who continually pull the "majority" card and grab other baseless claims out of thin air. It isn't sound reasoning if you have no way to prove that this is what the majority wants besides using a couple of forum threads. Add in the fact that people who use this excuse usually don't have solid reasons why there should be a merge besides "this world is dead" and don't state ways to fix the situation, and there's nothing substantial to discuss. Although you're on the "majority" train, you seem to have provided a point to discuss, so I'll address that.

    Banning bots manually is like stepping on bugs one at a time when you have an infestation. The people that program them are more resilient than you give them credit for. Nexon would have to actually have some way of banning them correctly and make it hard for them to come back; from what I've seen, it's as easy as ever to create an account and their past attempts at using software to ban bots have been incredibly shaky (aka I have no confidence in them to get either of these done right).

    Bring in the Korean death team simple

    You say this like the reason why KMS has less bots is because this "Korean death team" banned them all, when it's not the case. As I said before, you have to deter the people running bots from coming back and you have to have some sort of software to help ban these bots. For the former, the current sign up process isn't going to work; there would have to be some sort of identification similar to the korean version in order to have similar results (aka make it so that you can't just create an account using only an email address, which is extraordinarily easy to create these days). For the latter, the software that KR uses isn't going to work out the same here, because we have content that they don't have, which can introduce different loopholes. We can't just rely on them for help, nor can we only rely on manual means of dealing with these bots.

    Peep wrote: »
    DSpellGuy wrote: »
    riza wrote: »
    ...but the majority has spoken we want a merge. ALSO I WANT TO SEE TIFA SENSEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    the majority that are on the forums, keep in mind that not all players use the forums. Your numbers are as fudged as the us political vote results. Context here - the majority of the forum users are rallying on it.

    As for the whole thing, why not just go with what another suggested and alliance more up and see how that goes? Better yet, why don't we push for more means of dealing with the botters [I know some people have left the game as they got sick of the botters and nothing seemed to change when they reported often] before a merge or alliance change?

    and I keep seeing people going on about MMORPG and how it can't be if there's not a population - the numbers will not change for the game itself - it's still the same number of people just on different worlds/alliances/etc. So by that definition, it's still a MMORPG. I'm game for trying to up the number of players seeing one another, but I also want the botters dealt with, better quests [to lead to party play again] and maybe make some bosses require an actual party of 3+ players to go in to fight it.

    While his comment makes it sound like he's simply pulling statistics out of his arse there's some truth to it.

    I will say from the people I've talked to on my own server, I have yet to come across one that didn't want a merge or server alliance merge. I'm sure there are a few out there but it would definitely be a minority. There's been a lot of discussion in the past when the population was higher and even more on the discord. There are a lot of people who want one now more than ever. Why? well simply due to the disaster that was transfers that happened last year. This left many servers close to empty as they put no limitations on Bera. A lot of these servers were already in need of a merge and became 10x worse than they were before.

    As for the whole botter thing. I've been making threads attacking Nexon about that for years. Many agreed with me in those threads and they got a lot of traction in the past but not much seems to come from it on Nexon's end. Now you have these new updates coming through that just make it 1000x easier for botters and hackers. The change to the hyper teleport rock as one example. We can't teleport to people we suspect are cheating anymore when they appear offline. The change that came with this update to login offline. This sort of crap was already available with hacks but now they're allowing players to do it without using them. There's a couple more but you get the idea. It honestly feels like they're trying to make it so we don't bother anymore. They've given hackers all the tools to pretty much never get caught and now I'm 100% sure the amount of reports on hackers has gone down for Nexon tremendously. Not because there are less hackers and botters but because nobody is ever going to find them anymore.

    The hacker and botter thing is a huge issue and an ongoing one but not one I feel is more important than a merge for lower pop servers at this time.

    Playing on a close to empty server feels more like a single player game than a MMO, thus the comment. Just because the population is the same across all servers does not mean it is the same on every server. This isn't really about "seeing other people" running past etc. This is more about gameplay and events. On a dead server it's very hard to organize groups for content. On a dead server it's very hard for events like flag race or bingo to start. This is content that becomes unaccessible because of the lower population.

    This is a huge problem and why mergers or alliance mergers are absolutely needed ASAP. Servers like Bera are probably fine but servers like MYBCKN, GRAZED and Broni are in dire need of help.


    "I have yet to come across one that didn't want a merge or server alliance merge", I've been asking around 30 people and yet, everyone said they want merge, not a single person said the opposite.... and yeah as you said, there must be a very very few people who doesn't want merge but that's like, really really really minority.... I'm telling you, those people who are against us here in this forum are probably just 3-4 people who continue to make more and more accounts..... -_-
    LET the merge begin NexoN!!! F5.

    I addressed this several times in this thread and even at the top of this comment, so I'm not going to spam it. And I can say the same thing about several others in this thread who basically say, "let the merge begin" while putting a different word in caps. Don't make accusations that you can't back up with hard evidence.

    NicholasB wrote: »
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU

    No, if they will not merge, they'll lose players much much faster, most of my friends (from Scania) has quit already, why? because they're tired of being in an empty world, they're tired of being in a world where the economy is very very bad, and u can't find ANYTHING in Auction House....
    And believe me, people will continue to quit, but it'd be much much better (not perfect, nothing will be perfect, there are always cons anywhere, but there'd be A LOT more cons if you don't merge worlds, and much much fewer cons and problems if you merge worlds now, in other words, the situation would be 10x better than our current situation) if we merge worlds NOW and ASAP!

    And if we "merge worlds NOW and ASAP" into one huge world like you want without solving the underlying issues with the game itself, the experience will not be enjoyable for anyone. I would rather be in a "dead" world than a world that is filled to the brim, swarmed with botters, and has constant issues that causes Nexon to reset channels randomly. Personally, I'm for merging worlds to get down to 2-3 worlds besides Reboot (I'm kind of tired at looking at a cluttered world selection screen that would be confusing for newer players). I'd also be fine with more transfers. But I simply don't trust Nexon to make this a smooth transition for anyone.
    TachikawaHiyoko
  • TrystarrTrystarr
    Reactions: 1,350
    Posts: 64
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU

    I understand there are people on both sides of the table here. That's why I initially stated there should be a merged server, as well as 1 less populated server to accommodate more people. There shouldn't be five unpopulated servers. Would you not be satisfied with that solution? the most you could lose is the name of your home server, and I don't think that's enough to make you quit if you still have the type of community you prefer.

    To answer your question, personally, no, I wouldn't like to be in a server that's not overly populated but that stops being Windia, I wouldn't be satisfied with that. If that were to happen, I would have to evaluate if it was worth it for me, personally, to continue playing. Windia is my home and it has its problems and its perks, but I like it how it is.



    Trystarr wrote: »
    It is an overstatement for you to claim my argument is fallacious, or an argumentum ad populum. There is no objective truth to this problem as it is a entirely subjective, personal preference. If there are a lot of people complaining about the population, that is an objective fact, it doesn't infer they could be wrong about said population problem. People can perceive anything as a problem, but in this case there are certainly a lot of people who, in their opinion, see a problem with the population. accommodating that at least to the point where there aren't 5 dead servers should be a priority. For business and for the maple community.

    I didn't mean *your* argument in particular. I meant anyone who claims to know what the "majority" wants, be it to defend the merge idea or the anti-merge idea. Anyone who says "The majority wants this" or "The majority does that" or "They should do this now because the overwhelming majority wants this" (like I've read countless times in this thread) is being fallacious because *no one* can actually know for a fact what the "majority" wants or which majority are we talking about. That is the very definition of an argumentum ad populum: claiming that something must be true or right because "most people" or "many people" or "the majority" believes it to be true or right. :P But I didn't mean it as an individual attack against your argument in particular or anything. If someone who is against the world merging, like me, came saying "THE MAJORITY WANTS TO STAY LIKE THIS" they would be fallacious too. ;) If I said that, I would be fallacious. So, yeah, for me, at least, any argument that claims to know what the "majority" wants, particularly without even bothering to define which "majority" are they referring to (but even if they did define it), is fallacious to me. We can all take responsibility and say what we personally think, but nothing more than that, because even our theoretical facts may be wrong or incomplete or something. Nevertheless, we can still talk all we want, as long as we keep in mind that our opinions are as valid as the ones of the other people, even if they are contrary to what we want/think.

    Sure, we have opinions, we have what we think are facts, we have the right to talk about this until our fingers fall off our hands. But no one knows for sure what the "majority" actually IS, what does it want and, regardless of that, what will Nexon will actually do about this, if they end up doing anything. And, more importantly than any talk, in my opinion, is the fact that, when the time comes and they do make a decision one way or the other (or come up with a decision that meets both extremes in the middle or whatever), each of us will have to decide if it's worth to continue playing the game or not. That's all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    You saying you wouldn't like to be in a server thats not overly populated but that stops being windia in particular is where rationale is lost. Most people aren't in there home server anymore. Don't you understand how selfish it is for you disagree with my proposed solution from occuring (having 1 populated and 1 underpopulated non-reboot server) because of sentimental feelings towards an intangible concept that doesn't impact the gameplay at all? When it would satisfy everyone beyond the sentiments of server names? The rules and gameplay are the same across all servers, I really don't see how we can assign a sense of patriotism to maple servers.. It is simply the name of a server, I left Broa for Windia during a server merge and wasn't happy with it, but rationalized the better community experience outweighed my feelings of nostalgia, and acknowledged the wider population problem for everyone. Even look at the poster above me claiming he thinks GRAZED should be the solo server. Sentimental feelings towards these servers are going to get in the way of progress for the whole community. That cannot be a real priority in this decision process as the majority of people have left their home servers (I'm defining the majority based off of the significant migration I saw first hand to Windia acouple years ago, then again to Bera in November of last year). So if all of us didn't think for ourselves, and rather pitched solutions for everyone, that would be a good start for gaining consensus and minimizing loss. And lets face it, community/gameplay experience will have way more sway in making players quit over having their original server name.

    Read through all these posts, go talk to people in the underpopulated servers and see how they feel about the situation (beyond your friend group in windia). Regardless of how we define the majority, there are certaintly a significant amount of maplers complaining about this issue, to the point where it is objectively a problem for a lot of the players. This is why I am saying the argument is not fallacious the way you describe. You cannot deny that is true. I'm aware there could be a number of players who prefer small scale servers, that is why i pitched the idea of 2 non-reboot servers. But the number of players who would quit over a server name change is a margin I don't think Nexon is concerned about (considering how they've butchered servers in the last events). And frankly cannot be prioritized over gameplay experience for everyone.
  • AcgnoliaAcgnolia
    Reactions: 1,280
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited June 2018
    NicholasB wrote: »
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU

    No, if they will not merge, they'll lose players much much faster, most of my friends (from Scania) has quit already, why? because they're tired of being in an empty world, they're tired of being in a world where the economy is very very bad, and u can't find ANYTHING in Auction House....
    And believe me, people will continue to quit, but it'd be much much better (not perfect, nothing will be perfect, there are always cons anywhere, but there'd be A LOT more cons if you don't merge worlds, and much much fewer cons and problems if you merge worlds now, in other words, the situation would be 10x better than our current situation) if we merge worlds NOW and ASAP!

    Well, my friend, *you think* that based on your friends and your own personal opinion. *I think* that they stand to lose players in both cases and that it isn't so clear that only a world merge will solve all the problems. Please, feel free to continue thinking what you want, while I do the same. :) Time and Nexon will tell who will actually continue to play this game regardless of how this gets addressed, if it does. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    If there was three worlds, in which the population was distributed, I doubt the game would go back to old maple story level ( I believe you were the person arguing about that). People like you are being way to optimistic, about the population that is. People have suggested one big wolrd with 100 channels, and It is highly likely that 100 channels would be way more than needed. All nexon has to do to prove me wrong is show me some numbers. And based on the hunting event, the number is smaller then they think ( I heard it didnt go as planned)
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,955
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited June 2018
    wanting an active population isn't an objective issue, it's a want not a need.
    TachikawaHiyokoXlGuadalX
  • KushyDragonKushyDragon
    Reactions: 1,715
    Posts: 135
    Member
    edited June 2018
    Acgnolia wrote: »
    2600 wrote: »
    Safe to say the decline in MapleStory is mainly due to the fact that a good percent of the player base has grown up and had to move on to adult things thus the lack of players in the game.
    There are many other things that are causing the decline as well, I'm sure it has to do with the lack of stuff to do, limited to doing most bosses once a week or once a day, lack of in-game content that allows you to do more then train and boss.

    MapleStory 2 Closed Beta was interesting how their were mini-games like X & O and Soul Survivor I think it was called?
    The only downfall about MapleStory2 that looks like will happen is how easy it is to level up just doing quests only thing left to do after that is craft stuff or make your gear better and that's just a short amount of stuff I mention because I don't feel like ranting anymore in this post wanna do do something else so that's where I end this for now.

    No the decline in population is not due to "people getting older" it started when they made party play leveling almost irrelevant in the Unleashed update. Since then many negative changes have been made (ones many people didn't want) . In addition the game crashes /freezes that still happen + the bugs. Lack of communication is another one . Party quests still have bugs which make pqs uncompletable at times. Sure they made some party quests better but they nerfed stuff like R+J into the ground ,removed party play training maps for higher players (Added them for low levels, which aren't even relevant) The buffs to certain party quests came to late as majority of people left the game already who like that aspect. Many people left for private servers because of the negative changes and lack of party play aspects.

    Saying the game has "nothing to do" is laughable you have plenty of things outside bossing and training. It's just not many people do them..

    If we agree the population has decreased regardless of the reason, can we also agree that the number of servers should decrease as well (we don't have to agree on the exact number of servers), to prevent whatever the population is from being spread to thin over so many servers

    Of course , I am all for a merge playing in El Nido (GRAZED) at time you see more bots gold selling in henesys than actual people..

    I really don't understand why there are still a few people in here don't wanna merge... I understand their want a tiny server where they can play without interruption but still, what about the overwhelming majority like us? I think if we have only 2 options, either merge or not, then of course we must merge.... this is what the overwhelming majority wants and this is what should and must get...
    Or maybe just 3 worlds, a big world such as Bera, and the tiny world such as Scania and the 3rd world which is Reboot, so then people who wants tiny server would go to Scania and those who want great economy with high population will go to Bera, this is so simple...
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Trystarr wrote: »
    Riza, first you have to know what the interests of Nexon are, youre not an employee or executive of Nexon to even being to understand what their big picture is. There's already a large population in Bera, so who is the majority youre referring to? The large majority of those that want to be in Bera but aren't? what do Berans have to say about the merge? They probably don't care since theyre already in Bera. Riza, you make the least sense from the bunch.

    Nexon's interests are profit, atleast primarily as they are a business. They must still be making a profitable amount off of Maplestory to not take immediate action, but I honestly don't think that's sustainable considering how widespread these complaints are in the less populated servers. The problem is maplers in Bera are probably relatively content, they have less of a reason to protest this issue. But I've heard enough people in my server voice their complaints about the low population. There is a significant portion of the population that are pissed about this that are in less populated servers, why wouldn't they atleast merge them together? Just look at how popular this thread is. Even if you or anyone disagrees, I know you can't claim the current server set up is ideal so something needs to change or else they risk a lot of maplers quitting because of this issue.

    I honestly think that they risk losing players both ways, because no solution will ever make "everyone" happy. That's the sad thing about this. No matter how much we talk and how much time we spent arguing, they decision they make will not make us all happy. There will always be someone who disagrees, someone who thinks it's too little or too much, someone who claims they were not playing at the time X thing happened so it should be re-done, etc. If they don't merge worlds, people will claim they don't listen to them, they hate the status quo, then quit. If they do merge servers, people like me, who are against that, will also feel ignored, will hate the consequences and will quit too. So, either way, the game is going to lose players. The ones in favor of the merge claim they are the "majority" so they should be listened to, because the game would theoretically lose more players if their claim isn't heard. I respectfully disagree with that clam, but no one can know for sure. Plus, I think the game will lose players either way, regardless of this particular matter, for all sorts of reasons. It has been losing players for years, and not only because of the theoretical "dead" state of the worlds. *shrugs*

    Theoretically, that's why you're supposed to go with the "majority": because that way you're supposed to make the most people happy with your decision. But what that is isn't so clear here or ever. If something wins 51% over 49%, yes, the "majority" wins, but the "minority" is almost as big as the majority anyways, so that's still a lot of unhappy people that thought the contrary and that didn't get their way. In this particular case, it's the same. As much as some claim they "know for a fact" that there's a "majority" behind the desire of a merge, you can see by this very same thread that the people who argue against and for a certain position are basically the same over and over. It's not like this long thread is the product of thousands of different people posting. It's the product of the same dozen or so people who keep replying a lot to each other, basically.

    I think that no one, none of us, not even Nexon itself, really knows what the "majority" of the players would want. Sure, some people claim to "know" what the "majority" wants, because it's what they want. I could say the same thing and no one could refute my claim because who knows what I truly know or what I don't, who I talk to or not? No one but me. :P

    And then it comes another aspect of this issue: this "majority" must include ALL players (currently active or not, both in-game and in the forums) or just the ones that are active? And, within the active ones, should it include only the ones that are active in-game or the ones that are active both in the game and in the forums? I can tell you from first-hand experience that what people say in forums isn't necessarily exactly the same that people would say in game, and that there are many who play the game actively but never ever go to the game's homepage, let alone participate in this or any other forum. So, who's the real "majority"? How can we determine that this "majority" has prevalence over that "majority" or over the overall "majority"? We can't and we don't know. Not to mention that the argumentum ad populum is nothing but a fallacy, regardless of what you're arguing about. ^_^UU

    I understand there are people on both sides of the table here. That's why I initially stated there should be a merged server, as well as 1 less populated server to accommodate more people. There shouldn't be five unpopulated servers. Would you not be satisfied with that solution? the most you could lose is the name of your home server, and I don't think that's enough to make you quit if you still have the type of community you prefer.

    To answer your question, personally, no, I wouldn't like to be in a server that's not overly populated but that stops being Windia, I wouldn't be satisfied with that. If that were to happen, I would have to evaluate if it was worth it for me, personally, to continue playing. Windia is my home and it has its problems and its perks, but I like it how it is.



    Trystarr wrote: »
    It is an overstatement for you to claim my argument is fallacious, or an argumentum ad populum. There is no objective truth to this problem as it is a entirely subjective, personal preference. If there are a lot of people complaining about the population, that is an objective fact, it doesn't infer they could be wrong about said population problem. People can perceive anything as a problem, but in this case there are certainly a lot of people who, in their opinion, see a problem with the population. accommodating that at least to the point where there aren't 5 dead servers should be a priority. For business and for the maple community.

    I didn't mean *your* argument in particular. I meant anyone who claims to know what the "majority" wants, be it to defend the merge idea or the anti-merge idea. Anyone who says "The majority wants this" or "The majority does that" or "They should do this now because the overwhelming majority wants this" (like I've read countless times in this thread) is being fallacious because *no one* can actually know for a fact what the "majority" wants or which majority are we talking about. That is the very definition of an argumentum ad populum: claiming that something must be true or right because "most people" or "many people" or "the majority" believes it to be true or right. :P But I didn't mean it as an individual attack against your argument in particular or anything. If someone who is against the world merging, like me, came saying "THE MAJORITY WANTS TO STAY LIKE THIS" they would be fallacious too. ;) If I said that, I would be fallacious. So, yeah, for me, at least, any argument that claims to know what the "majority" wants, particularly without even bothering to define which "majority" are they referring to (but even if they did define it), is fallacious to me. We can all take responsibility and say what we personally think, but nothing more than that, because even our theoretical facts may be wrong or incomplete or something. Nevertheless, we can still talk all we want, as long as we keep in mind that our opinions are as valid as the ones of the other people, even if they are contrary to what we want/think.

    Sure, we have opinions, we have what we think are facts, we have the right to talk about this until our fingers fall off our hands. But no one knows for sure what the "majority" actually IS, what does it want and, regardless of that, what will Nexon will actually do about this, if they end up doing anything. And, more importantly than any talk, in my opinion, is the fact that, when the time comes and they do make a decision one way or the other (or come up with a decision that meets both extremes in the middle or whatever), each of us will have to decide if it's worth to continue playing the game or not. That's all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    You saying you wouldn't like to be in a server thats not overly populated but that stops being windia in particular is where rationale is lost. Most people aren't in there home server anymore. Don't you understand how selfish it is for you disagree with my proposed solution from occuring (having 1 populated and 1 underpopulated non-reboot server) because of sentimental feelings towards an intangible concept that doesn't impact the gameplay at all? When it would satisfy everyone beyond the sentiments of server names? The rules and gameplay are the same across all servers, I really don't see how we can assign a sense of patriotism to maple servers.. It is simply the name of a server, I left Broa for Windia during a server merge and wasn't happy with it, but rationalized the better community experience outweighed my feelings of nostalgia, and acknowledged the wider population problem for everyone. Even look at the poster above me claiming he thinks GRAZED should be the solo server. Sentimental feelings towards these servers are going to get in the way of progress for the whole community. That cannot be a real priority in this decision process as the majority of people have left their home servers (I'm defining the majority based off of the significant migration I saw first hand to Windia acouple years ago, then again to Bera in November of last year). So if all of us didn't think for ourselves, and rather pitched solutions for everyone, that would be a good start for gaining consensus and minimizing loss. And lets face it, community/gameplay experience will have way more sway in making players quit over having their original server name.

    Read through all these posts, go talk to people in the underpopulated servers and see how they feel about the situation (beyond your friend group in windia). Regardless of how we define the majority, there are certaintly a significant amount of maplers complaining about this issue, to the point where it is objectively a problem for a lot of the players. This is why I am saying the argument is not fallacious the way you describe. You cannot deny that is true. I'm aware there could be a number of players who prefer small scale servers, that is why i pitched the idea of 2 non-reboot servers. But the number of players who would quit over a server name change is a margin I don't think Nexon is concerned about (considering how they've butchered servers in the last events). And frankly cannot be prioritized over gameplay experience for everyone.

    I wouldn't be able to go to another world anyway, I have 40+ characters in GRAZED alone, I have another 30+ in Scania, and I have characters everywhere else.

    So unless they're going to make an entirely new world where I can move all of my characters?

    No Dice.
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
    Reactions: 6,160
    Posts: 748
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2018
    I wonder if they'll notice us yet
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