because a merge wont solve more issues than itll create.
Their main argument is that an mmorpg is required to have as many players as it can, while true, it doesn't require them to be in single world.
As for the botting thing, they said the more players there are, the more bots are inclined to leave the map because they don't want to be caught/reported. That's what they said, so itll benefit nexon having more players in a world.
Pressure a company? what happens if they don't give in to such tactics? > 30 people don't hold enough leverage to "pressure" a company. Instead of convincing them that a merge would be best in the long run ( I disagree) and offering evidence to support the claim, you rather choose to pressure? I don't think youre in any position to.
Are you against merging/ forming alliance at all, or just against having one world? I agree with you that the bot problem will be a difficult one to deal with, but I don't think its a good idea to leave people stuck in dead worlds like Khaini, which appears to be the most dead based on the bar graphs that you see when you log in
I feel like you're missing the point. Why not have a merged world for the majority of these commenters and a small world for you and the rest? attacking the botting problem is more about the expense than it is the difficulty- hiring gms to patrol is easy but expensive. like i said, show me the person who said a super world will deter botting. these statements aren't baseless, they are the complaints and suggestions of a companies customers, that's what they should be taken as. The point isn't to prove with empirical evidence that a merge is the only way, the point is to pressure a company into initiating action on a pressing issue for many of their customers.
With a larger community, you can have a player base constantly playing and notice botters more often and report them. There is a thing now where Nexon chain bans bots, so shutting them down could be a lot easier with more people running around to report them. I do not see how a larger community can be a detriment.
It has been brought up in this thread. Also if you're asking Passenger for their opinion on the topic, then you completely missed the purpose of the comment that they made that started this chain. Cadena's comment was essentially, "The solution is easy; merge everything down to Bera and Reboot. It's the only solution and there is no need for details. Nexon can easily ban botters if they just do it." This isn't a "I think Nexon should merge all worlds" kind of response; it's a "Nexon needs to merge everything now and get rid of botters now because this is the only solution" kind of response. If someone makes outlandish claims like this, then it is well within reason to ask them to explain themselves and provide evidence. The point isn't to make baseless claims; the point is to make suggestions and be open to other opinions on the situation, and Passenger called them out on it. You can't pressure a company into action if you can't even defend your argument.
I've always thought the idea of having a dead world to fill for people who liked quiet worlds is ridiculous since if enough people like the idea, it will fill up and become a regular server, which won't be quiet anymore. Players and bots SMEGA are unavoidable in both dead and crowded worlds. Having enough channels or having maps be structured similarly so there are always hunting map alternatives should allow players to training without fighting over maps (IDK how many CLPs we need to make GMS happy.)
A world merge won't magically kill the hacker/botter population, but it could change how the GMs operate (assuming they are on duty.) Assuming we are merged or allied into one physical world, reporting suspicious activity will be easier since there will be only 4 physical worlds: NA Reboot, EU Reboot (Coming Soon,) Luna and Bera (Merged or alliance.) This will make reporting easier for players who actually plan on doing their part. I don't know how GMs patrols are organized, but a population merge will change how their patrols work, and in theory, a merged world should focus all the GM's manpower into this one server.
I feel like you're missing the point. Why not have a merged world for the majority of these commenters and a small world for you and the rest? attacking the botting problem is more about the expense than it is the difficulty- hiring gms to patrol is easy but expensive. like i said, show me the person who said a super world will deter botting. these statements aren't baseless, they are the complaints and suggestions of a companies customers, that's what they should be taken as. The point isn't to prove with empirical evidence that a merge is the only way, the point is to pressure a company into initiating action on a pressing issue for many of their customers.
With a larger community, you can have a player base constantly playing and notice botters more often and report them. There is a thing now where Nexon chain bans bots, so shutting them down could be a lot easier with more people running around to report them. I do not see how a larger community can be a detriment.
It has been brought up in this thread. Also if you're asking Passenger for their opinion on the topic, then you completely missed the purpose of the comment that they made that started this chain. Cadena's comment was essentially, "The solution is easy; merge everything down to Bera and Reboot. It's the only solution and there is no need for details. Nexon can easily ban botters if they just do it." This isn't a "I think Nexon should merge all worlds" kind of response; it's a "Nexon needs to merge everything now and get rid of botters now because this is the only solution" kind of response. If someone makes outlandish claims like this, then it is well within reason to ask them to explain themselves and provide evidence. The point isn't to make baseless claims; the point is to make suggestions and be open to other opinions on the situation, and Passenger called them out on it. You can't pressure a company into action if you can't even defend your argument.
This was in response to someone saying a bigger world would increase botters. Which is still a digression from the main subject of the thread. There is a botting problem, regardless of population. Botters shouldnt be a reason for not solving a pressing issue in the community.
I believe it was because in earlier pages people were digressing further into specifics that led to further disagreements. There was a fair bit of comments of disagreements among people who wanted a merge one way or another. So it makes us look like we have no consensus if the people who want a merge are bickering with eachother over the nitty gritty. That is up to the discretion of Nexon as to whether they do an alliance or merge or forget about server names or not. That was Cadenas point. we really just need some sort of initiative on this issue that has been going on for along time now.
How can you say those are outlandish claims considering the state of the game? There are LITERALLY more bots than players in henesys ch 1 right now, all the time in Windia. I cant even have a conversation in ch 1 henesys because of bot spam advertising a service that is against TOS. This is not some sort of court where you need empirical evidence to prove your point. its a subforum for nexon customers to voice their feedback of the game. These arent baseless claims, maybe youve gotten comfortable with a next to dead population and botters owning channel 1 henesys. Telling a fed up customer to "prove it" is ludicrous when considering how bad the current state of the game is in relation to the topic of the comment. 5 out of 6 servers right now are next to dead. regardless if its "not as bad as youd think" or satisfactory for afew, most people are unhappy with this problem, and this is based on my anecdotal experience of 8 months in a dead server, not empirical evidence. Botters sell broken gear and duped items and mesos all on the most popular map and channels. And you can definitely pressure a company into action if its what your customers want. We got nx transfer events and the such without providing empirical evidence as to why its necessary, just complained thats its been awhile, right here on the forums. Hopefully we have a shot at this too.
I've always thought the idea of having a dead world to fill for people who liked quiet worlds is ridiculous since if enough people like the idea, it will fill up and become a regular server, which won't be quiet anymore. Players and bots SMEGA are unavoidable in both dead and crowded worlds. Having enough channels or having maps be structured similarly so there are always hunting map alternatives should allow players to training without fighting over maps (IDK how many CLPs we need to make GMS happy.)
A world merge won't magically kill the hacker/botter population, but it could change how the GMs operate (assuming they are on duty.) Assuming we are merged or allied into one physical world, reporting suspicious activity will be easier since there will be only 4 physical worlds: NA Reboot, EU Reboot (Coming Soon,) Luna and Bera (Merged or alliance.) This will make reporting easier for players who actually plan on doing their part. I don't know how GMs patrols are organized, but a population merge will change how their patrols work, and in theory, a merged world should focus all the GM's manpower into this one server.
Then Nexon could start rereleasing servers to a proportionate degree, not this 6 server bs we have now. atleast with 2 non reboot servers you get some sort of choice, and it doesnt look as bad for Nexon to be reduced to 1 server.
because a merge wont solve more issues than itll create.
Their main argument is that an mmorpg is required to have as many players as it can, while true, it doesn't require them to be in single world.
As for the botting thing, they said the more players there are, the more bots are inclined to leave the map because they don't want to be caught/reported. That's what they said, so itll benefit nexon having more players in a world.
Pressure a company? what happens if they don't give in to such tactics? > 30 people don't hold enough leverage to "pressure" a company. Instead of convincing them that a merge would be best in the long run ( I disagree) and offering evidence to support the claim, you rather choose to pressure? I don't think youre in any position to.
Isnt it besides the fact as to whether its one server, two servers or 6 servers that gives the community the most players it can that the servers can support. I mean you just said its true we need as many people as we can for an mmorpg, and considering how dead 5 out of 6 servers are, why does this whether its a single world or 2 matter?
I personally disagree with the botting situation and do think itll probly get worse if there is less places to go, but still is besides the fact, and should be addressed as a separate issue.
OH I definitely think theres a solid chance Nexon will brush off this thread and all the complaints theyve gotten. But Nexon can read all the complimentary reasoning to Cadenas comment in the other 25 pages of this thread. Its so redundent to ask him to explain himself when every other comment is telling you how terrible their server is. This is beyond this thread. I know I, and guildies have made enough tickets for Nexon to read about. The issue obviously isnt black and white, but at this point i think were all willing to let nexon take another stab at fixing this problem.
They cant prove anything, they cant prove that a merge is the only way, they cant prove that banning bots is easy nor can they prove that one super world will deter bots from botting. Statements made from people that accuse others of creating multiple forum accounts to support their opinions. All they are - are baseless statements.
The reality is, there's nothing more to discuss, Arwoo already said this is a popular topic and Nexon is aware of it.
I feel like you're missing the point. Why not have a merged world for the majority of these commenters and a small world for you and the rest? attacking the botting problem is more about the expense than it is the difficulty- hiring gms to patrol is easy but expensive. like i said, show me the person who said a super world will deter botting. these statements aren't baseless, they are the complaints and suggestions of a companies customers, that's what they should be taken as. The point isn't to prove with empirical evidence that a merge is the only way, the point is to pressure a company into initiating action on a pressing issue for many of their customers.
Of course he is.... me and a lot of people in here have been trying to tell him that but he just either ignore it or show up with some "logic reasons".
But let's face it, he just doesn't want to merge worlds, that's it. why? I don't know, but it really seems as if he's from Nexon, trying to make us "understand, why we shouldn't merge worlds and why it would be a bad choice". comon...
I think it's amazing that you and several others aren't getting the point. If I remember correctly, there was only 1 person in this entire thread who didn't want anything to happen at all. We all know that this is a problem that should be fixed, and that this is a thread to provide solutions for this problem. And I posted a summation of my thoughts on this issue and how I think Nexon should handle it around page 20...which leads me to believe you haven't read everything in the thread.
The point that has been made by Cadena and several other people in this thread is that Nexon should merge everything into Bera; they believe that this is the only solution and that other problems will be able to be fixed easily by Nexon. For a good 15 pages, people like myself and Passenger have been trying to get people to explain themselves or give evidence to support their point. Where is the evidence that supports the idea that merging everything into Bera is the only solution and that all other points of view should be ignored?
People are still arguing that their solution is the only correct solution...without providing any sort of structuring as to how it would go and without providing any evidence as to why other solutions are bad. Should I believe their point that the majority of people want that? No, because they have no legitimate way of gauging the sentiments of the entire population. Should I believe them when they say that problems will be fixed easily by Nexon to make this process smooth? No, because Nexon has shown time and time again that they cannot execute large scale things in a manner that wouldn't affect normal players (ie: innocent players getting banned). Not to mention the repeated arguments of "x works at Nexon, so of course they disagree with merges" (even though "the people working with Nexon" are usually arguing against inane and unsound reasoning) and "I spent x amount of money on this game". These last couple just make it seem as though the poster doesn't have any actual ideas and instead choose to either insult people for being "shills for Nexon" or boast about how much they spent on the game and how important their opinion should be.
Again, we can all agree that something needs to be done. But when someone essentially says, "My opinion is right and only mine should be followed," they need to explain themselves. It's as simple as that.
To be honest, I kinda feel like giving up...
I mean, so many people want to merge worlds and when I say people, I'm talking about the majority, and yet, Nexon do nothing about it, this is really sad
I think it's amazing that you and several others aren't getting the point. If I remember correctly, there was only 1 person in this entire thread who didn't want anything to happen at all. We all know that this is a problem that should be fixed, and that this is a thread to provide solutions for this problem. And I posted a summation of my thoughts on this issue and how I think Nexon should handle it around page 20...which leads me to believe you haven't read everything in the thread.
The point that has been made by Cadena and several other people in this thread is that Nexon should merge everything into Bera; they believe that this is the only solution and that other problems will be able to be fixed easily by Nexon. For a good 15 pages, people like myself and Passenger have been trying to get people to explain themselves or give evidence to support their point. Where is the evidence that supports the idea that merging everything into Bera is the only solution and that all other points of view should be ignored?
People are still arguing that their solution is the only correct solution...without providing any sort of structuring as to how it would go and without providing any evidence as to why other solutions are bad. Should I believe their point that the majority of people want that? No, because they have no legitimate way of gauging the sentiments of the entire population. Should I believe them when they say that problems will be fixed easily by Nexon to make this process smooth? No, because Nexon has shown time and time again that they cannot execute large scale things in a manner that wouldn't affect normal players (ie: innocent players getting banned). Not to mention the repeated arguments of "x works at Nexon, so of course they disagree with merges" (even though "the people working with Nexon" are usually arguing against inane and unsound reasoning) and "I spent x amount of money on this game". These last couple just make it seem as though the poster doesn't have any actual ideas and instead choose to either insult people for being "shills for Nexon" or boast about how much they spent on the game and how important their opinion should be.
Again, we can all agree that something needs to be done. But when someone essentially says, "My opinion is right and only mine should be followed," they need to explain themselves. It's as simple as that.
The way I see it is his comment is another one to add to this thread to keep the momentum going. I don't really need to believe his ideas precisely, as long as we have more pressure on this issue. I'm not entertaining arguing over too many specifics because its counter productive. Just voice your opinion, say you want some sort of merge, and hope Nexon sees it all. That's what i've been hoping for. Whereas it seems you have just argued with people who want a merge one way or another. I get the idea of fleshing out ideas, but there is a threshold where it becomes counter productive and digresses too far on one persons minor details. Lets be real, what are you really expecting? Nexon staffers to look through, point and say "I like this ones idea, lets do this one". And the lucky winner gets his ideas to the tee implemented in the next update? Contribute what you want with your ideas and move on. This is just one of afew ways to get Nexon to act on this issue, one way or another. I guess you're being abit more idealistic than me, I am alittle cynical, but in my opinion realistic, as to what to expect from these forum suggestions.
Also reading through again I realized you're the one who said people should be responsible for keeping up to date with world transfer events even when youre not currently playing. I don't know how old you are, but that just seems unrealistic for some of the older players. Last year i quit for my 1st semester of school with no intention of coming back at a specific date, therefore missing the transfer event. I understand accepting the consequences of missing nx transfer events, or burning events etc. because I am not keeping up to date, but one of the consequences of not keeping up to date should not be so severe that it compromises the gameplay. The population is integral to the game. for gear, scrolls, bossing, parties, queues, guilds and allis and friends and overall community. How can all that be rationalized as an acceptable consequence for missing an event while you were not playing the game? More importantly, how is that enticing potential players to come back to the game after a long break? (the most common story you hear from people on maple) I pray Nexon doesn't just do another transfer event. But hey, we'll see!
Most of you that want a merge are the same ones that do take long breaks or even quit "without the thought of coming back", why the hell would your voice have more value, what if there's a merge and you guys end up quitting. There would have been a merge to appease you, then you quit, which mathematically, may happen since it you just said you quit for a year. And others say they missed the transfer because they weren't playing.
An alliance or transfer is more realistic, than any type of merge.
Most of you that want a merge are the same ones that do take long breaks or even quit "without the thought of coming back", why the hell would your voice have more value, what if there's a merge and you guys end up quitting. There would have been a merge to appease you, then you quit, which mathematically, may happen since it you just said you quit for a year. And others say they missed the transfer because they weren't playing.
An alliance or transfer is more realistic, than any type of merge.
Totally fine with an alliance too, an alliance coupled with a world transfer event, imo, is ideal. it covers the sentimentalists who want their server name and gives everyone a good population. Although is still problematic for deciding what server stays under populated if the plan is to cater to the minority who dont want a merge. I use the word merge pretty loosely. I seriously just think I, and many others, want to play the game with more people. And haven't you noticed most maplers you talked to are old time players who came back after an extended period of time off? This game doesn't recruit many brand new players thats the sad reality. Most people I meet are veterans.
I never said my voice has more value?? When did i say that?
Not sure how you're applying mathematics to determine whether i will quit again or not seems like guess work to me.
Listen, a merge (or alliance) is Maplestory's last dying breath. I enjoy this game and I think there will always be a handful of people who keep on playing. But the population has steadily been decreasing and that's the sad reality. Yes, more people will quit in the near future who may want the merge now, but the population for this game is pretty dam old it seems (Again, from my anecdotal experience talking to people) and life goes on. But they are still potential customers for now. And we can atleast optimize the experience of maplestory for as long as possible by investing in the foundation of the game, which in my opinion, is the community.
Most of you that want a merge are the same ones that do take long breaks or even quit "without the thought of coming back", why the hell would your voice have more value, what if there's a merge and you guys end up quitting. There would have been a merge to appease you, then you quit, which mathematically, may happen since it you just said you quit for a year. And others say they missed the transfer because they weren't playing.
An alliance or transfer is more realistic, than any type of merge.
Totally fine with an alliance too, an alliance coupled with a world transfer event, imo, is ideal. it covers the sentimentalists who want their server name and gives everyone a good population. Although is still problematic for deciding what server stays under populated if the plan is to cater to the minority who dont want a merge. I use the word merge pretty loosely. I seriously just think I, and many others, want to play the game with more people. And haven't you noticed most maplers you talked to are old time players who came back after an extended period of time off? This game doesn't recruit many brand new players thats the sad reality. Most people I meet are veterans.
I never said my voice has more value?? When did i say that?
Not sure how you're applying mathematics to determine whether i will quit again or not seems like guess work to me.
Listen, a merge (or alliance) is Maplestory's last dying breath. I enjoy this game and I think there will always be a handful of people who keep on playing. But the population has steadily been decreasing and that's the sad reality. Yes, more people will quit in the near future who may want the merge now, but the population for this game is pretty dam old it seems (Again, from my anecdotal experience talking to people) and life goes on. But they are still potential customers for now. And we can atleast optimize the experience of maplestory for as long as possible by investing in the foundation of the game, which in my opinion, is the community.
What's exactly the difference between merge and alliance? if the results are the same then I don't mind that.
I feel like you're missing the point. Why not have a merged world for the majority of these commenters and a small world for you and the rest? attacking the botting problem is more about the expense than it is the difficulty- hiring gms to patrol is easy but expensive. like i said, show me the person who said a super world will deter botting. these statements aren't baseless, they are the complaints and suggestions of a companies customers, that's what they should be taken as. The point isn't to prove with empirical evidence that a merge is the only way, the point is to pressure a company into initiating action on a pressing issue for many of their customers.
With a larger community, you can have a player base constantly playing and notice botters more often and report them. There is a thing now where Nexon chain bans bots, so shutting them down could be a lot easier with more people running around to report them. I do not see how a larger community can be a detriment.
It has been brought up in this thread. Also if you're asking Passenger for their opinion on the topic, then you completely missed the purpose of the comment that they made that started this chain. Cadena's comment was essentially, "The solution is easy; merge everything down to Bera and Reboot. It's the only solution and there is no need for details. Nexon can easily ban botters if they just do it." This isn't a "I think Nexon should merge all worlds" kind of response; it's a "Nexon needs to merge everything now and get rid of botters now because this is the only solution" kind of response. If someone makes outlandish claims like this, then it is well within reason to ask them to explain themselves and provide evidence. The point isn't to make baseless claims; the point is to make suggestions and be open to other opinions on the situation, and Passenger called them out on it. You can't pressure a company into action if you can't even defend your argument.
This was in response to someone saying a bigger world would increase botters. Which is still a digression from the main subject of the thread. There is a botting problem, regardless of population. Botters shouldnt be a reason for not solving a pressing issue in the community.
I believe it was because in earlier pages people were digressing further into specifics that led to further disagreements. There was a fair bit of comments of disagreements among people who wanted a merge one way or another. So it makes us look like we have no consensus if the people who want a merge are bickering with eachother over the nitty gritty. That is up to the discretion of Nexon as to whether they do an alliance or merge or forget about server names or not. That was Cadenas point. we really just need some sort of initiative on this issue that has been going on for along time now.
How can you say those are outlandish claims considering the state of the game? There are LITERALLY more bots than players in henesys ch 1 right now, all the time in Windia. I cant even have a conversation in ch 1 henesys because of bot spam advertising a service that is against TOS. This is not some sort of court where you need empirical evidence to prove your point. its a subforum for nexon customers to voice their feedback of the game. These arent baseless claims, maybe youve gotten comfortable with a next to dead population and botters owning channel 1 henesys. Telling a fed up customer to "prove it" is ludicrous when considering how bad the current state of the game is in relation to the topic of the comment. 5 out of 6 servers right now are next to dead. regardless if its "not as bad as youd think" or satisfactory for afew, most people are unhappy with this problem, and this is based on my anecdotal experience of 8 months in a dead server, not empirical evidence. Botters sell broken gear and duped items and mesos all on the most popular map and channels. And you can definitely pressure a company into action if its what your customers want. We got nx transfer events and the such without providing empirical evidence as to why its necessary, just complained thats its been awhile, right here on the forums. Hopefully we have a shot at this too.
I've always thought the idea of having a dead world to fill for people who liked quiet worlds is ridiculous since if enough people like the idea, it will fill up and become a regular server, which won't be quiet anymore. Players and bots SMEGA are unavoidable in both dead and crowded worlds. Having enough channels or having maps be structured similarly so there are always hunting map alternatives should allow players to training without fighting over maps (IDK how many CLPs we need to make GMS happy.)
A world merge won't magically kill the hacker/botter population, but it could change how the GMs operate (assuming they are on duty.) Assuming we are merged or allied into one physical world, reporting suspicious activity will be easier since there will be only 4 physical worlds: NA Reboot, EU Reboot (Coming Soon,) Luna and Bera (Merged or alliance.) This will make reporting easier for players who actually plan on doing their part. I don't know how GMs patrols are organized, but a population merge will change how their patrols work, and in theory, a merged world should focus all the GM's manpower into this one server.
Then Nexon could start rereleasing servers to a proportionate degree, not this 6 server bs we have now. atleast with 2 non reboot servers you get some sort of choice, and it doesnt look as bad for Nexon to be reduced to 1 server.
because a merge wont solve more issues than itll create.
Their main argument is that an mmorpg is required to have as many players as it can, while true, it doesn't require them to be in single world.
As for the botting thing, they said the more players there are, the more bots are inclined to leave the map because they don't want to be caught/reported. That's what they said, so itll benefit nexon having more players in a world.
Pressure a company? what happens if they don't give in to such tactics? > 30 people don't hold enough leverage to "pressure" a company. Instead of convincing them that a merge would be best in the long run ( I disagree) and offering evidence to support the claim, you rather choose to pressure? I don't think youre in any position to.
Isnt it besides the fact as to whether its one server, two servers or 6 servers that gives the community the most players it can that the servers can support. I mean you just said its true we need as many people as we can for an mmorpg, and considering how dead 5 out of 6 servers are, why does this whether its a single world or 2 matter?
I personally disagree with the botting situation and do think itll probly get worse if there is less places to go, but still is besides the fact, and should be addressed as a separate issue.
OH I definitely think theres a solid chance Nexon will brush off this thread and all the complaints theyve gotten. But Nexon can read all the complimentary reasoning to Cadenas comment in the other 25 pages of this thread. Its so redundent to ask him to explain himself when every other comment is telling you how terrible their server is. This is beyond this thread. I know I, and guildies have made enough tickets for Nexon to read about. The issue obviously isnt black and white, but at this point i think were all willing to let nexon take another stab at fixing this problem.
Most of you that want a merge are the same ones that do take long breaks or even quit "without the thought of coming back", why the hell would your voice have more value, what if there's a merge and you guys end up quitting. There would have been a merge to appease you, then you quit, which mathematically, may happen since it you just said you quit for a year. And others say they missed the transfer because they weren't playing.
An alliance or transfer is more realistic, than any type of merge.
I thought a merge and alliance were exactly the same, just you don't share storage, and non of your characters are connected to each other?
Most of you that want a merge are the same ones that do take long breaks or even quit "without the thought of coming back", why the hell would your voice have more value, what if there's a merge and you guys end up quitting. There would have been a merge to appease you, then you quit, which mathematically, may happen since it you just said you quit for a year. And others say they missed the transfer because they weren't playing.
An alliance or transfer is more realistic, than any type of merge.
Totally fine with an alliance too, an alliance coupled with a world transfer event, imo, is ideal. it covers the sentimentalists who want their server name and gives everyone a good population. Although is still problematic for deciding what server stays under populated if the plan is to cater to the minority who dont want a merge. I use the word merge pretty loosely. I seriously just think I, and many others, want to play the game with more people. And haven't you noticed most maplers you talked to are old time players who came back after an extended period of time off? This game doesn't recruit many brand new players thats the sad reality. Most people I meet are veterans.
I never said my voice has more value?? When did i say that?
Not sure how you're applying mathematics to determine whether i will quit again or not seems like guess work to me.
Listen, a merge (or alliance) is Maplestory's last dying breath. I enjoy this game and I think there will always be a handful of people who keep on playing. But the population has steadily been decreasing and that's the sad reality. Yes, more people will quit in the near future who may want the merge now, but the population for this game is pretty dam old it seems (Again, from my anecdotal experience talking to people) and life goes on. But they are still potential customers for now. And we can atleast optimize the experience of maplestory for as long as possible by investing in the foundation of the game, which in my opinion, is the community.
If what he says about the player base is true which it probably is (people leaving and coming back, or taking break) for a large percentage, then it is evidence that population has many instances of declining, which is one of the reasons mentioned for having a merge. Even recenlty with the new character released in the summer, when a lot of players come back we haven't hit a 3k peak on steam, last time that occurred was 2015.
Just cause theyre not on steam doesn't mean theyre not playing, there is Nexon Launcher.
And no one said theyre a large percentage, I said you guys that want a merge here. You guys aren't the large percentage of maplestory, youre only like 10 people. Don't twist the facts to suit your theory.
Just cause theyre not on steam doesn't mean theyre not playing, there is Nexon Launcher.
And no one said theyre a large percentage, I said you guys that want a merge here. You guys aren't the large percentage of maplestory, youre only like 10 people. Don't twist the facts to suit your theory.
I use steam because its all I have to make the best guess and im sure my interpretation of the steam charts, that the population has been decreasing isn't to far off. There use to be another web site that had a good depiction of the game population, but now its gone and no way to check, but based on what I heard on the recent event, the number probably isn't to good.
So do you not think the game is declining? and do you not believe a lot of players (im not saying its necessarily a majority, follow the pattern of leaving, coming back, and repeat it to have an effect on population? From what I see on the forums overall and my personal friends, its quite common. And I didn't mean to say that you claimed that a large percentage of people exhibit this habit, im making that claim.
I thought a merge and alliance were exactly the same, just you don't share storage, and non of your characters are connected to each other?
What's exactly the difference between merge and alliance? if the results are the same then I don't mind that.
A merge, as it suggests, merges the worlds into one icon on the world selection screen and merges the players into the same worlds. All pre-existing characters and items from the pre=existing worlds will be brought into the new world. The new world won't have it's maximum storage or character slots expanded (the new world won't be able to hold 46 characters if you have more that 46 characters.)
An alliance follows the same format except the select worlds are rounded up into a cluster. Worlds in the same cluster will enter same world. I play in the server Arcania, but my guild leader plays in El Nido. We are in different servers, but are in the same world: GRAZED. It is like you are friend go the same school, but you each use different entrances. You use the front door like a normal, but your odd friend sneaks in through the food delivery area. You both used different entrances, but you end up in the same building.
Being in an alliance has insane perks. If you were wondering why I wanted an alliance instead of merge, this is why.
Each server in an alliance has it own Storage, 46 character roster limit, Legion and separate attendance charts in events as well as RP shop limits. So technically, in GRAZED if I buy 5 red cubes in Arcania with Reward Points, I can continue buying red cubes by logging into another character in Renegades for a limit of 30. If we ALL allied with Bera, we could buy 85 of each cube and 34 of each scroll! Instead of sharing storage and characters slots, they would be SEVENTEEN times in capacity. Moving stuff between worlds is difficult as storage cannot be used to move items from world to world, but only in the same world. The only remedy is to use the drop, and relog on the receiving character, or ask someone to hold it.
I hope this explains why alliances is the best option.
Just cause theyre not on steam doesn't mean theyre not playing, there is Nexon Launcher.
And no one said theyre a large percentage, I said you guys that want a merge here. You guys aren't the large percentage of maplestory, youre only like 10 people. Don't twist the facts to suit your theory.
If he has been referencing the stem views since 2015 than I am willing to appreciate the correlation the view count has to gameplay population. its one way to sample the population. There are other ways too, but it seems like a decent way to bench mark where the population was, based off the resources we have.
Have you not met a significant amount of people who quit and then came back to Maplestory later on down the road? This is like the most commonly walked path in Maplestory, c'mon, that last point on
:
Most of you that want a merge are the same ones that do take long breaks or even quit "without the thought of coming back", why the hell would your voice have more value, what if there's a merge and you guys end up quitting. There would have been a merge to appease you, then you quit, which mathematically, may happen since it you just said you quit for a year. And others say they missed the transfer because they weren't playing.
likely cannot be supported by anyone else on here because everyone knows maplers quit and come back quite commonly. ask any random mapler how long they quit for before they came back and I bet you'll get an answer supporting this claim.
I feel like there is quite an age difference between us that is causing me to be dissatisfied with this discussion.
1. steam charts isn't the best place to get sample size when we don't know how many people play on steam.
2. it may be true, but we don't know the % of people that do so, and the % of the population they make up.
3. What the hell does age have to do with difference in opinion. If we agreed would you say we're the same age? Is that really your logic?
Comments
Are you against merging/ forming alliance at all, or just against having one world? I agree with you that the bot problem will be a difficult one to deal with, but I don't think its a good idea to leave people stuck in dead worlds like Khaini, which appears to be the most dead based on the bar graphs that you see when you log in
It has been brought up in this thread. Also if you're asking Passenger for their opinion on the topic, then you completely missed the purpose of the comment that they made that started this chain. Cadena's comment was essentially, "The solution is easy; merge everything down to Bera and Reboot. It's the only solution and there is no need for details. Nexon can easily ban botters if they just do it." This isn't a "I think Nexon should merge all worlds" kind of response; it's a "Nexon needs to merge everything now and get rid of botters now because this is the only solution" kind of response. If someone makes outlandish claims like this, then it is well within reason to ask them to explain themselves and provide evidence. The point isn't to make baseless claims; the point is to make suggestions and be open to other opinions on the situation, and Passenger called them out on it. You can't pressure a company into action if you can't even defend your argument.
A world merge won't magically kill the hacker/botter population, but it could change how the GMs operate (assuming they are on duty.) Assuming we are merged or allied into one physical world, reporting suspicious activity will be easier since there will be only 4 physical worlds: NA Reboot, EU Reboot (Coming Soon,) Luna and Bera (Merged or alliance.) This will make reporting easier for players who actually plan on doing their part. I don't know how GMs patrols are organized, but a population merge will change how their patrols work, and in theory, a merged world should focus all the GM's manpower into this one server.
This was in response to someone saying a bigger world would increase botters. Which is still a digression from the main subject of the thread. There is a botting problem, regardless of population. Botters shouldnt be a reason for not solving a pressing issue in the community.
I believe it was because in earlier pages people were digressing further into specifics that led to further disagreements. There was a fair bit of comments of disagreements among people who wanted a merge one way or another. So it makes us look like we have no consensus if the people who want a merge are bickering with eachother over the nitty gritty. That is up to the discretion of Nexon as to whether they do an alliance or merge or forget about server names or not. That was Cadenas point. we really just need some sort of initiative on this issue that has been going on for along time now.
How can you say those are outlandish claims considering the state of the game? There are LITERALLY more bots than players in henesys ch 1 right now, all the time in Windia. I cant even have a conversation in ch 1 henesys because of bot spam advertising a service that is against TOS. This is not some sort of court where you need empirical evidence to prove your point. its a subforum for nexon customers to voice their feedback of the game. These arent baseless claims, maybe youve gotten comfortable with a next to dead population and botters owning channel 1 henesys. Telling a fed up customer to "prove it" is ludicrous when considering how bad the current state of the game is in relation to the topic of the comment. 5 out of 6 servers right now are next to dead. regardless if its "not as bad as youd think" or satisfactory for afew, most people are unhappy with this problem, and this is based on my anecdotal experience of 8 months in a dead server, not empirical evidence. Botters sell broken gear and duped items and mesos all on the most popular map and channels. And you can definitely pressure a company into action if its what your customers want. We got nx transfer events and the such without providing empirical evidence as to why its necessary, just complained thats its been awhile, right here on the forums. Hopefully we have a shot at this too.
Then Nexon could start rereleasing servers to a proportionate degree, not this 6 server bs we have now. atleast with 2 non reboot servers you get some sort of choice, and it doesnt look as bad for Nexon to be reduced to 1 server.
Isnt it besides the fact as to whether its one server, two servers or 6 servers that gives the community the most players it can that the servers can support. I mean you just said its true we need as many people as we can for an mmorpg, and considering how dead 5 out of 6 servers are, why does this whether its a single world or 2 matter?
I personally disagree with the botting situation and do think itll probly get worse if there is less places to go, but still is besides the fact, and should be addressed as a separate issue.
OH I definitely think theres a solid chance Nexon will brush off this thread and all the complaints theyve gotten. But Nexon can read all the complimentary reasoning to Cadenas comment in the other 25 pages of this thread. Its so redundent to ask him to explain himself when every other comment is telling you how terrible their server is. This is beyond this thread. I know I, and guildies have made enough tickets for Nexon to read about. The issue obviously isnt black and white, but at this point i think were all willing to let nexon take another stab at fixing this problem.
Of course he is.... me and a lot of people in here have been trying to tell him that but he just either ignore it or show up with some "logic reasons".
But let's face it, he just doesn't want to merge worlds, that's it. why? I don't know, but it really seems as if he's from Nexon, trying to make us "understand, why we shouldn't merge worlds and why it would be a bad choice". comon...
I think it's amazing that you and several others aren't getting the point. If I remember correctly, there was only 1 person in this entire thread who didn't want anything to happen at all. We all know that this is a problem that should be fixed, and that this is a thread to provide solutions for this problem. And I posted a summation of my thoughts on this issue and how I think Nexon should handle it around page 20...which leads me to believe you haven't read everything in the thread.
The point that has been made by Cadena and several other people in this thread is that Nexon should merge everything into Bera; they believe that this is the only solution and that other problems will be able to be fixed easily by Nexon. For a good 15 pages, people like myself and Passenger have been trying to get people to explain themselves or give evidence to support their point. Where is the evidence that supports the idea that merging everything into Bera is the only solution and that all other points of view should be ignored?
People are still arguing that their solution is the only correct solution...without providing any sort of structuring as to how it would go and without providing any evidence as to why other solutions are bad. Should I believe their point that the majority of people want that? No, because they have no legitimate way of gauging the sentiments of the entire population. Should I believe them when they say that problems will be fixed easily by Nexon to make this process smooth? No, because Nexon has shown time and time again that they cannot execute large scale things in a manner that wouldn't affect normal players (ie: innocent players getting banned). Not to mention the repeated arguments of "x works at Nexon, so of course they disagree with merges" (even though "the people working with Nexon" are usually arguing against inane and unsound reasoning) and "I spent x amount of money on this game". These last couple just make it seem as though the poster doesn't have any actual ideas and instead choose to either insult people for being "shills for Nexon" or boast about how much they spent on the game and how important their opinion should be.
Again, we can all agree that something needs to be done. But when someone essentially says, "My opinion is right and only mine should be followed," they need to explain themselves. It's as simple as that.
To be honest, I kinda feel like giving up...
I mean, so many people want to merge worlds and when I say people, I'm talking about the majority, and yet, Nexon do nothing about it, this is really sad
The way I see it is his comment is another one to add to this thread to keep the momentum going. I don't really need to believe his ideas precisely, as long as we have more pressure on this issue. I'm not entertaining arguing over too many specifics because its counter productive. Just voice your opinion, say you want some sort of merge, and hope Nexon sees it all. That's what i've been hoping for. Whereas it seems you have just argued with people who want a merge one way or another. I get the idea of fleshing out ideas, but there is a threshold where it becomes counter productive and digresses too far on one persons minor details. Lets be real, what are you really expecting? Nexon staffers to look through, point and say "I like this ones idea, lets do this one". And the lucky winner gets his ideas to the tee implemented in the next update? Contribute what you want with your ideas and move on. This is just one of afew ways to get Nexon to act on this issue, one way or another. I guess you're being abit more idealistic than me, I am alittle cynical, but in my opinion realistic, as to what to expect from these forum suggestions.
Also reading through again I realized you're the one who said people should be responsible for keeping up to date with world transfer events even when youre not currently playing. I don't know how old you are, but that just seems unrealistic for some of the older players. Last year i quit for my 1st semester of school with no intention of coming back at a specific date, therefore missing the transfer event. I understand accepting the consequences of missing nx transfer events, or burning events etc. because I am not keeping up to date, but one of the consequences of not keeping up to date should not be so severe that it compromises the gameplay. The population is integral to the game. for gear, scrolls, bossing, parties, queues, guilds and allis and friends and overall community. How can all that be rationalized as an acceptable consequence for missing an event while you were not playing the game? More importantly, how is that enticing potential players to come back to the game after a long break? (the most common story you hear from people on maple) I pray Nexon doesn't just do another transfer event. But hey, we'll see!
An alliance or transfer is more realistic, than any type of merge.
Totally fine with an alliance too, an alliance coupled with a world transfer event, imo, is ideal. it covers the sentimentalists who want their server name and gives everyone a good population. Although is still problematic for deciding what server stays under populated if the plan is to cater to the minority who dont want a merge. I use the word merge pretty loosely. I seriously just think I, and many others, want to play the game with more people. And haven't you noticed most maplers you talked to are old time players who came back after an extended period of time off? This game doesn't recruit many brand new players thats the sad reality. Most people I meet are veterans.
I never said my voice has more value?? When did i say that?
Not sure how you're applying mathematics to determine whether i will quit again or not seems like guess work to me.
Listen, a merge (or alliance) is Maplestory's last dying breath. I enjoy this game and I think there will always be a handful of people who keep on playing. But the population has steadily been decreasing and that's the sad reality. Yes, more people will quit in the near future who may want the merge now, but the population for this game is pretty dam old it seems (Again, from my anecdotal experience talking to people) and life goes on. But they are still potential customers for now. And we can atleast optimize the experience of maplestory for as long as possible by investing in the foundation of the game, which in my opinion, is the community.
What's exactly the difference between merge and alliance? if the results are the same then I don't mind that.
I thought a merge and alliance were exactly the same, just you don't share storage, and non of your characters are connected to each other?
And no one said theyre a large percentage, I said you guys that want a merge here. You guys aren't the large percentage of maplestory, youre only like 10 people. Don't twist the facts to suit your theory.
I use steam because its all I have to make the best guess and im sure my interpretation of the steam charts, that the population has been decreasing isn't to far off. There use to be another web site that had a good depiction of the game population, but now its gone and no way to check, but based on what I heard on the recent event, the number probably isn't to good.
So do you not think the game is declining? and do you not believe a lot of players (im not saying its necessarily a majority, follow the pattern of leaving, coming back, and repeat it to have an effect on population? From what I see on the forums overall and my personal friends, its quite common. And I didn't mean to say that you claimed that a large percentage of people exhibit this habit, im making that claim.
A merge, as it suggests, merges the worlds into one icon on the world selection screen and merges the players into the same worlds. All pre-existing characters and items from the pre=existing worlds will be brought into the new world. The new world won't have it's maximum storage or character slots expanded (the new world won't be able to hold 46 characters if you have more that 46 characters.)
An alliance follows the same format except the select worlds are rounded up into a cluster. Worlds in the same cluster will enter same world. I play in the server Arcania, but my guild leader plays in El Nido. We are in different servers, but are in the same world: GRAZED. It is like you are friend go the same school, but you each use different entrances. You use the front door like a normal, but your odd friend sneaks in through the food delivery area. You both used different entrances, but you end up in the same building.
Being in an alliance has insane perks. If you were wondering why I wanted an alliance instead of merge, this is why.
Each server in an alliance has it own Storage, 46 character roster limit, Legion and separate attendance charts in events as well as RP shop limits. So technically, in GRAZED if I buy 5 red cubes in Arcania with Reward Points, I can continue buying red cubes by logging into another character in Renegades for a limit of 30. If we ALL allied with Bera, we could buy 85 of each cube and 34 of each scroll! Instead of sharing storage and characters slots, they would be SEVENTEEN times in capacity. Moving stuff between worlds is difficult as storage cannot be used to move items from world to world, but only in the same world. The only remedy is to use the drop, and relog on the receiving character, or ask someone to hold it.
I hope this explains why alliances is the best option.
If he has been referencing the stem views since 2015 than I am willing to appreciate the correlation the view count has to gameplay population. its one way to sample the population. There are other ways too, but it seems like a decent way to bench mark where the population was, based off the resources we have.
Have you not met a significant amount of people who quit and then came back to Maplestory later on down the road? This is like the most commonly walked path in Maplestory, c'mon, that last point on
:
likely cannot be supported by anyone else on here because everyone knows maplers quit and come back quite commonly. ask any random mapler how long they quit for before they came back and I bet you'll get an answer supporting this claim.
I feel like there is quite an age difference between us that is causing me to be dissatisfied with this discussion.
2. it may be true, but we don't know the % of people that do so, and the % of the population they make up.
3. What the hell does age have to do with difference in opinion. If we agreed would you say we're the same age? Is that really your logic?