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Argent

So many bugs need to squashed in this game...

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Argent
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  • Beast Tamer revamp Ideas w/o c/d on Lv190 hyper

    I am exceptionally disappointed in how Beast Tamer was treated in v214 and calling it a revamp is nothing short of an insult. A bug fix that results in a massive nerf, a few changes that also result in nerfs and a few minor tweaks do not make this a revamp. The removal of passive stacking results in about a 50% damage loss, something very similar to the old Haku nerf from years past which took Kanna from being middling class to rock bottom.

    While passive stacking was in error, the fact that Nexon came back and codified in an ability that performed essentially the same effect tells me they are at least vaguely aware of BTs need for it. Otherwise, we would have gotten just another Epic Adventure skill.

    This change makes BT very unresponsive to funding, requiring significantly more investment from the player to reach the same level of play as other classes. While there may be the odd one or two individuals that are happy playing the class in the current state, it seems that the majority are not.

    One note before I get any further, I am not a Beast Tamer main. My understanding of all the mechanics and playstyles is therefore limited and there are more skilled players out there that might be able to articulate better ideas.

    BT suffers from an identity crisis because the developer is trying to make a single class act like four. Where all other classes in the game have 4 jobs that build off each other, allowing them to get stronger, Beast Tamer’s animals act independently. While it gives BT some unique versatility, it hampers them from excelling because the critter modes don’t interact with each other and the modes skill trees are not large or powerful enough to deal with the lack of cohesion. The lack of skill points available only exacerbates the issue.

    I believe it makes sense for Beast Tamer’s animal companions to work together and passive stacking seems like a good way to do this.

    The easiest way to go about this would be to modify the new hyper skill to something like the following:

    All Together! Critter Crossing!: (Req. Lv. 190) Temporarily summons all of the animal spirits at the sound of Chase’s strong, magical whistle.
    Lv. 1: MP Cost: 1000, Duration: 60 seconds. Skill applies all buff skills with a few exceptions, regardless of the mode. Only skills with SP invested will be kept and all buffs will disappear when this skill ends. Cooldown: 180 seconds.
    Passive: All animal mode passive skills are applied regardless of mode.

    The active effect mainly targets Cat and Hawk modes due to Leopard and Bear not having active buffs.

    Now, while this much is simple, looking at the possible shared passives/buffs we can see that the total amount BT gets stats looking pretty absurd, and yet only that level of base stats got BT to a level playing field with other classes.

    Here what I calculated as BT’s combined base stats would be, in Bear Assault but minus Gold Card. I'm sure there are some errors but it should be close enough to demonstrate things.

    Main Stat: 365
    Secondary Stat: 90
    Crit Rate: 198
    Crit Damage: 85
    % Max HP: 205
    % Max MP: 83
    FLAT M/ATT: 415
    % M/ATT: 31
    Damage: 35
    Boss Damage: 63
    IED: 92.97536
    Final Damage: 40


    Much of those stats came in the v206 skill update where many passive buffs were tacked on haphazardly to skills, particularly in Hawk mode.

    Thrakkes is suggesting some changes to the damage of many of BT’s skills, most of which fall in line with the more recent KMS patch that decreased the %damage of skills but increased the lines. If BT does get updated damage formulas, some of the passives are going to need to be toned down.

    Eka in particular needs some work, many of the skills seemed to be filler due to the devs trying to have the same number of skills for each critter but a lack of ideas on what to make. Cat mode is also nearly as underwhelming, but I don't have many ideas on what to do with the mode outside of a full revamp and that would end up changing how the mode balances with the others.

    Assuming my version of Critter Crossing where to be implemented here are some balance changes I think would be necessary.
    • Bear Strength: -60% crit rate
    • Billowing Trumpet: Removed. Boost base damage for Majestic Trumpet.
    • Sky Walk: Movement Speed +45
    • Eka Express: -10% Crit Damage. Max 1 SP
    • Hawk Flock: +5 Jump
    • Feather Cloak: Removed, stats reallocated
    • Regroup: -20% IED, Max 1SP
    • Bird’s-Eye View: Critical Rate: +15%
    • Razor Beak: Critical Damage: +15%
    • Feather Boots: Removed, stats reallocated
    • Vertical Draft: I’d love to have the up jump available regardless of mode.
    • Cat’s Wit: -80 stat
    • Kitty Treats: Removed

    These changes are of course contingent on the damage output for Beast Tamers skill also being raised to a reasonable level, and enough skill points to max all trees being available. Certain other skills in BT’s kit could have their Max SP reduced as well. But, otherwise, I think this nicely distributes the passives between classes and doesn’t overload any one. Lots of work needs to be done on BT to get it to a respectable level, and I do hope that Nexon makes improvements soon rather than later, but until then mine will probably be benched.
    Shiftah
  • The Familiar Revamp and Reboot

    The whole thing looks like it was designed in under a week by an indignant employee who lost a bet.

    If normal server players are unhappy with the new familiar system, they are free like everyone else to voice their concerns. Frankly, if I were one I'd be ticked off that Nexon has decided to take a simple feature like the codex/familiars and turn it into an RNG/Grindfest/Paywalled monstrosity like so many other "features" that plague the game theses days. If the familiar system goes live the way Nexon currently has planned it is going to suck for everyone regardless of server (but it will likely be worse in Reboot).

    If as the video said, one goal of the revamp was to put less emphasis on specific monsters, I think they will have failed. Like others have mentioned, players are going to gravitate to familiars that they can easily grind because familiars from higher-level areas just won't worth grinding cards for if you can't get a decent potential.
    WONDERGUYHHG1ShadowParadoxJellylemonMisterKrekel
  • Kanna Mains Chat

    CrystalOra wrote: »
    4 million loss in range...AGAIN!!! Quit taking away my hard earned range!!! I really hope this is because of a glitch, but I honestly think they are trying to kill this class. I'm 257 and was planning to go for max. Now I don't really feel motivated to train when I'm being kicked from the server even more than I was before.

    Haku's blessing is complete broken, providing no damage. We also lost soul sheer which provided 30% final damage and the 7% final damage from Haku Perfected has been reduced to 5% when Breath of the Unseen is cast.

    I'm 257 as well and yeah this has killed what tepid enthusiasm I had. Even if things were to be reversed tomorrow, Nexon has managed to most of the hype they had generated for the summer. Even people who don't main Kanna are feeling it and half the oldies in my guild have said goodbye.

    I'm tired Nexon, this bs has gone on for over a year and a half because of the old Haku nerf where you claimed to want to bring Kanna in line with the rest of the mages. Shame on me for believing you'd actually do something good this time.
    SlayerJKanna3840
  • Kanna Mains Chat

    Cons:
    • Demon Boss's verticle hitbox is smaller compared to what we saw in JMS.
    • Tengu's range it shorter than displayed in JMS.
    • Haunting received two nerfs one to its base damage to the first hit (reduced from 300% in JMS to 250%) and one to its node. It now gets 2%FD unlike the 7% (1st job boost) in JMS
    • Calculations for summon damage have been nerfed
    • Spirit Veins are incredibly hard to see with skill transparency on but playing without it is almost impossible due to the amount of skill spam.
    • No way to dispell barriers
    • Decent Combat Orders doesn't seem to affect skills
    • No new potential lines on Haku's fan, meaning Kanna's still must go for 3L magic attack.
    • Mana Balance costs 50% hp
    • Mana overload is working as intended now but it feels terrible to use especially since bosses do %HP attacks.
    • Mana Hyper stats are broken
    • Haku's blessing is nerfed from 48 to 40
    • Haku's Blessing is broken and not giving a buff despite showing as a buff.
    • Breath of the Unseen lost its 80% knockback resist and 40% IED
    • Haku's gift (healing) now only heals 80% and has a 2-minute cooldown (30 sec in JMS)
    • Foxfire now has a 55-second duration and a 60-second cooldown (use to be 40 seconds I believe)
    • Geomancy spread (increased number of spirit veins) has been reduced from 2 in JMS to 1 in GMS
    • Burning tons of nodes to get new Trios
    • Had to rebuy skill books...

    Mixed:
    • Kishin nerf
    • Bind nerfs
    • Vanquishers does more damage but costs more and haunting nerfs mean VC is actually is still "better"
    • Barrier system
    • Blossom Barrier gives 60% damage reductions and 50% stance instead of 70% and 40% as in JMS.
    • Spirit Veins will be annoying
    • Final Damage was reduced due to soul sheer's removal leaving only domain and parties as Kanna's way to increase her FD. This may be a problem in the future.
    • Nightghost Guide is a nerfed version of Monkey Spirits. It's not great but ultimately insignificant
    • Blossom Barrier doesn't heal through potion lock for better or worse.
    • Bellflower Barrier changes: 20% damage +5% boss damage. Not sure what the point was.
    • No changes to Domain
    • Going to miss long teleport
    • Weird namings schemes...

    Pros:
    • Faster teleport
    • Teleport to spirit veins will be great to recover mana or avoid attacks in bosses
    • Blossom barrier heals HP at a good rate.
    • Flashy
    • Yosuzume mark is nice
    • Bellflower barrier hyper +20% boss is finally fixed.

    Quite a few of the cons were not present in JMS and reversing at least some of those changes would be good. RIght now Kanna is nowhere near the powerhouse she was speculated to be and in fact, is actually significantly weaker than before (which was already much weaker due to the old Haku nerf). Some of this is due to bugs which may get fixed in the first unscheduled maintenance, but I also worry that Nexon will not move quickly to address issues past that. This is made more concerning due to how slow they have been to address past issues with the class.
    SlayerJSlicedTimeMaigoscholar624FIava
  • [Announcement] Regarding Kanna's Haku's Blessing

    To say I’m not worried would be an understatement. Nexon doesn’t exactly have the best track record and with this major revamp there are so many areas that things can go wrong, be implemented poorly or change in a direction that no longer aligns with how I want to play. We have been told Nexon wants to emphasize the classes strengths and unique features, but they will also be changing a large number of her skills and that Nexon also wants to address some other issues their team and players have brought up. Right now many consider her a support mule where stats don’t matter, either for mobbing with Kishin or in bosses with Domain, Bellflower Barrier, Binds and Haku’s Blessing (if party members are mages). She’s high on offensive support buffs and low on individual damage output.

    There is a whole lot to consider when trying to balance the class so she doesn’t exist just as a mule, while also not nerfing those great skills into oblivion.

    On the mobbing side, we are going to have a new kishin item, the respawn delay increase for kishin and likely the removal of teleport farming. While the new item will be good for players that don’t have access to a 2nd PC, it’s not meant to replace kishin and therefore will likely mean that the two PC meta continues. If Kanna’s mobbing sees decent improvement while manually farming the meta may stay with the class being the main farmers, but I think this is something Nexon is going to try to discourage.

    I personally would like to see better mobbing. Part of the problem as I see it is that many of the maps from Morass on are much larger and have a poor layout. The more maps player are able to be effective in the better, once teleport farming is gone we are probably going to see a lot more competition for certain maps. Improvements for Kanna to keep them out of those maps would be, faster teleporting, reduced cost and cast animations for Orochi or other AOE skills, and summons not despawning when the player moves too far away.

    For bossing there have been a huge number of complaints against Kanna. Notably that her binds are 20 seconds, twice the duration of other classes. While I do see Kanna’s binds as strong I don’t believe they are as overpowered as some make them out to be. For Kanna individually, the cast delay on both her binds is long enough that it a significant moment of vulnerability. Additionally, even if the bind successful, endgame bosses tend to move or teleport during the bind. From experience, is incredibly frustrating to see Lucid drop off the map out of view for the entire duration or have Damien teleport a couple of times.

    There are two ways I would attempt to address Kanna’s binds. Ideally, the formula for increased bind duration should be reworked so that all classes have an opportunity for 20-second binds. Another option would be for her binds to be an iframe but the bind duration is lowered to what other classes give.

    I believe it was stated that Nexon won’t be touching Kanna’s 5th job skills and that’s fine for the most part. But for summons, including Domain and Yuki, most would appreciate if they stopped despawning.

    Haku’s skills are supposedly going to be looked at and somehow streamlined. This is probably what worries me the most. I don’t believe Haku’s Gift, nor Foxfire (especially Foxfire) need changed. Breath of the Unseen is pretty good but I would love 100% knock-back resist. Haku’s Blessing is the only skill that needs to be reworked, or rather unnerfed. This thread was started because of the nerf and it was not fair to Kanna. There have been plenty of posts on how to attempt to undo the damage this nerf caused but I’ll go over a few.
      1. Revert to a solo %Magic Attack buff, as it was originally.
      2. Convert to a %Final Damage buff
      3. Give Kanna the full stats of Haku’s fan
    Many Kanna players have had to put more work into their “secondary” than any other class so they need to be rewarded for doing so. It is important that Kannas are not forced to reroll stats or create a new secondary after this update. Some players like myself have heavily invested in a second Arcane Umbra Fan and if the value of that fan doesn’t go up (or worse drops) after this update, I am likely to reconsider my time with the class.

    Finally, I’m going to briefly cover my thoughts on some of the other skills in Kanna’s kit.
    • Elemental Blessing: Changing the effects of HP and MP or the amount of magic attack would have a significant negative impact on the class.
    • Soul Bomb: This skill is almost entirely useless. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it do more than half a percent of damage on my battle analysis.
    • Tengu Strike: Costs more than it should
    • Spirit Corral: The ability to draw in enemies is finicky at best.
    • Soul Shear: The only reason people readded points into this skill was that Nexon tacked on 30% final damage. It is terrible and no one likes it.
    • Blossom Barrier: Needs to protect against %HP attacks or have some other form of protection because it is basically useless in bosses; the only time it would be used.
    • Vanquishers Charm: 4 lines of attack? Please?
    • Orochi: Faster cast time
    • Falling Sakura: Costs too much, slow, cooldown and you must hit an enemy. I can’t remember the last time I used this skill.
    • Monkey Spirits: The chance to drop an unidentified item could be changed to just %drop like some other classes skills.
    • Bellflower Barrier: Just fix the hyper skill so it gives 45% boss damage
    • Demon’s Fury: Should be Kanna’s main mobbing skill, but isn’t because of the higher cost and cooldown.

    Nexon has mentioned Kanna may be getting all new skills, old skills might change, and these changed may affect our V-Matrix. Having to spend hundreds or thousands of nodes to redo my matrix isn’t going to be fair and I honestly don’t see a way that Nexon would make the process painless.

    I look forward to hearing more about the revamp, but hopefully, we will get to learn the extent of the changes far ahead enough that the feedback players provide can be given serious consideration. No one wants a repeat of the Haku’s Blessing nerf, and the players certainly don’t want to spend a year and a half for Nexon to even start talking about it again.
    TsundereKyuSlayerJ